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The new Ferrari nose
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Chad wrote:
> "Phil Newnham" <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:67ulh3F2pael9U1@mid.individual,net ...
> > Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >> Try a little earlier, say 1966?
> >> http :// auto.howstuffworks,com /ferrari-350-can-am.htm
> >
> > I picked the first one that came into my head, rather than claiming Lotus
> > invented it. I did say it's an old idea.
> >
> >> The current problem was how to make it work with a front wing under it
> >> and what would it do for the car. So you have to test all sorts of
> >> sizes and configurations to do it. This years' Ferrari F1 has a
> >> slightly longer wheelbase than last year, so it does not pitch as much
> >> as last year's car, so the front end stays level, longer into the
> >> corner allowing the wing and vent to work planting the car as the
> >> front wing plants it at medium speed. As somone pointed out here, the
> >> vent stalls at high speed alowing air to be unaffected. At low speed,
> >> not only does it get rid of a vortex under the nose, but it acts like
> >> an additional wing element. One vent doing three things.
> >
> > I'm not persuaded that it acts like a wing element - it's not as simple as
> > looking at it and saying it looks a bit like a wing therefore it generates
> > downforce like a wing does.
> >
>
> I 'thought' the main benefit was supposed to be that it released air
> pressure from beneath the car, effectively allowing the 'exisiting'
> downforce to work better, rather than developing more of it.
That would depend on how fast the car was going. It can do both.
Chad wrote:
> "Phil Newnham" <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:67ulh3F2pael9U1@mid.individual,net ...
> > Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >> Try a little earlier, say 1966?
> >> http :// auto.howstuffworks,com /ferrari-350-can-am.htm
> >
> > I picked the first one that came into my head, rather than claiming Lotus
> > invented it. I did say it's an old idea.
> >
> >> The current problem was how to make it work with a front wing under it
> >> and what would it do for the car. So you have to test all sorts of
> >> sizes and configurations to do it. This years' Ferrari F1 has a
> >> slightly longer wheelbase than last year, so it does not pitch as much
> >> as last year's car, so the front end stays level, longer into the
> >> corner allowing the wing and vent to work planting the car as the
> >> front wing plants it at medium speed. As somone pointed out here, the
> >> vent stalls at high speed alowing air to be unaffected. At low speed,
> >> not only does it get rid of a vortex under the nose, but it acts like
> >> an additional wing element. One vent doing three things.
> >
> > I'm not persuaded that it acts like a wing element - it's not as simple as
> > looking at it and saying it looks a bit like a wing therefore it generates
> > downforce like a wing does.
> >
>
> I 'thought' the main benefit was supposed to be that it released air
> pressure from beneath the car, effectively allowing the 'exisiting'
> downforce to work better, rather than developing more of it.
That would depend on how fast the car was going. It can do both.
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>
> Chad wrote:
>> "Phil Newnham" <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>> news:67ulh3F2pael9U1@mid.individual,net ...
>>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>>> Try a little earlier, say 1966?
>>>> http :// auto.howstuffworks,com /ferrari-350-can-am.htm
>>> I picked the first one that came into my head, rather than claiming Lotus
>>> invented it. I did say it's an old idea.
>>>
>>>> The current problem was how to make it work with a front wing under it
>>>> and what would it do for the car. So you have to test all sorts of
>>>> sizes and configurations to do it. This years' Ferrari F1 has a
>>>> slightly longer wheelbase than last year, so it does not pitch as much
>>>> as last year's car, so the front end stays level, longer into the
>>>> corner allowing the wing and vent to work planting the car as the
>>>> front wing plants it at medium speed. As somone pointed out here, the
>>>> vent stalls at high speed alowing air to be unaffected. At low speed,
>>>> not only does it get rid of a vortex under the nose, but it acts like
>>>> an additional wing element. One vent doing three things.
>>> I'm not persuaded that it acts like a wing element - it's not as simple as
>>> looking at it and saying it looks a bit like a wing therefore it generates
>>> downforce like a wing does.
>>>
>> I 'thought' the main benefit was supposed to be that it released air
>> pressure from beneath the car, effectively allowing the 'exisiting'
>> downforce to work better, rather than developing more of it.
>
> That would depend on how fast the car was going. It can do both.
That surprises me a bit because these kinds of flows are rarely that
Reynolds sensitive. Normally if there is flow going through it at low
speed, there will be flow at high speed - higher speed air does not
cause stall, no matter what someone on rasf1 thinks. Stall is caused by
too high a pressure gradient, and depends on the state of the boundary
layer. Laminar boundary layers (associated generally with low speed
flows) separate under less strongly adverse pressure gradients than
turbulent boundary layers (associated generally with higher speed
flows). There's obviously more to it than that but the idea that the
flow doesn't turn the corner because it's going too fast is basically
incorrect - I'd be interested to know why you think that it would stall
at high speeds.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>
> Chad wrote:
>> "Phil Newnham" <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>> news:67ulh3F2pael9U1@mid.individual,net ...
>>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>>> Try a little earlier, say 1966?
>>>> http :// auto.howstuffworks,com /ferrari-350-can-am.htm
>>> I picked the first one that came into my head, rather than claiming Lotus
>>> invented it. I did say it's an old idea.
>>>
>>>> The current problem was how to make it work with a front wing under it
>>>> and what would it do for the car. So you have to test all sorts of
>>>> sizes and configurations to do it. This years' Ferrari F1 has a
>>>> slightly longer wheelbase than last year, so it does not pitch as much
>>>> as last year's car, so the front end stays level, longer into the
>>>> corner allowing the wing and vent to work planting the car as the
>>>> front wing plants it at medium speed. As somone pointed out here, the
>>>> vent stalls at high speed alowing air to be unaffected. At low speed,
>>>> not only does it get rid of a vortex under the nose, but it acts like
>>>> an additional wing element. One vent doing three things.
>>> I'm not persuaded that it acts like a wing element - it's not as simple as
>>> looking at it and saying it looks a bit like a wing therefore it generates
>>> downforce like a wing does.
>>>
>> I 'thought' the main benefit was supposed to be that it released air
>> pressure from beneath the car, effectively allowing the 'exisiting'
>> downforce to work better, rather than developing more of it.
>
> That would depend on how fast the car was going. It can do both.
That surprises me a bit because these kinds of flows are rarely that
Reynolds sensitive. Normally if there is flow going through it at low
speed, there will be flow at high speed - higher speed air does not
cause stall, no matter what someone on rasf1 thinks. Stall is caused by
too high a pressure gradient, and depends on the state of the boundary
layer. Laminar boundary layers (associated generally with low speed
flows) separate under less strongly adverse pressure gradients than
turbulent boundary layers (associated generally with higher speed
flows). There's obviously more to it than that but the idea that the
flow doesn't turn the corner because it's going too fast is basically
incorrect - I'd be interested to know why you think that it would stall
at high speeds.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >
> > Chad wrote:
> >> "Phil Newnham" <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> >> news:67ulh3F2pael9U1@mid.individual,net ...
> >>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >>>> Try a little earlier, say 1966?
> >>>> http :// auto.howstuffworks,com /ferrari-350-can-am.htm
> >>> I picked the first one that came into my head, rather than claiming Lotus
> >>> invented it. I did say it's an old idea.
> >>>
> >>>> The current problem was how to make it work with a front wing under it
> >>>> and what would it do for the car. So you have to test all sorts of
> >>>> sizes and configurations to do it. This years' Ferrari F1 has a
> >>>> slightly longer wheelbase than last year, so it does not pitch as much
> >>>> as last year's car, so the front end stays level, longer into the
> >>>> corner allowing the wing and vent to work planting the car as the
> >>>> front wing plants it at medium speed. As somone pointed out here, the
> >>>> vent stalls at high speed alowing air to be unaffected. At low speed,
> >>>> not only does it get rid of a vortex under the nose, but it acts like
> >>>> an additional wing element. One vent doing three things.
> >>> I'm not persuaded that it acts like a wing element - it's not as simple as
> >>> looking at it and saying it looks a bit like a wing therefore it generates
> >>> downforce like a wing does.
> >>>
> >> I 'thought' the main benefit was supposed to be that it released air
> >> pressure from beneath the car, effectively allowing the 'exisiting'
> >> downforce to work better, rather than developing more of it.
> >
> > That would depend on how fast the car was going. It can do both.
>
> That surprises me a bit because these kinds of flows are rarely that
> Reynolds sensitive. Normally if there is flow going through it at low
> speed, there will be flow at high speed - higher speed air does not
> cause stall, no matter what someone on rasf1 thinks. Stall is caused by
> too high a pressure gradient, and depends on the state of the boundary
> layer. Laminar boundary layers (associated generally with low speed
> flows) separate under less strongly adverse pressure gradients than
> turbulent boundary layers (associated generally with higher speed
> flows). There's obviously more to it than that but the idea that the
> flow doesn't turn the corner because it's going too fast is basically
> incorrect - I'd be interested to know why you think that it would stall
> at high speeds.
>
> --
> Phil
>
IIRC, the top of the vent is shaped something like a NACA duct, but
has air flowing through it from under the nose to the top area. There
are also suppose to be four smaller parallel vents/vanes across it
that direct the flow at low speed but have no function (stall) at high
speed which causes the air to flow over the nose. I wish I could find
the page about it again. I should have book marked it.
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >
> > Chad wrote:
> >> "Phil Newnham" <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> >> news:67ulh3F2pael9U1@mid.individual,net ...
> >>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >>>> Try a little earlier, say 1966?
> >>>> http :// auto.howstuffworks,com /ferrari-350-can-am.htm
> >>> I picked the first one that came into my head, rather than claiming Lotus
> >>> invented it. I did say it's an old idea.
> >>>
> >>>> The current problem was how to make it work with a front wing under it
> >>>> and what would it do for the car. So you have to test all sorts of
> >>>> sizes and configurations to do it. This years' Ferrari F1 has a
> >>>> slightly longer wheelbase than last year, so it does not pitch as much
> >>>> as last year's car, so the front end stays level, longer into the
> >>>> corner allowing the wing and vent to work planting the car as the
> >>>> front wing plants it at medium speed. As somone pointed out here, the
> >>>> vent stalls at high speed alowing air to be unaffected. At low speed,
> >>>> not only does it get rid of a vortex under the nose, but it acts like
> >>>> an additional wing element. One vent doing three things.
> >>> I'm not persuaded that it acts like a wing element - it's not as simple as
> >>> looking at it and saying it looks a bit like a wing therefore it generates
> >>> downforce like a wing does.
> >>>
> >> I 'thought' the main benefit was supposed to be that it released air
> >> pressure from beneath the car, effectively allowing the 'exisiting'
> >> downforce to work better, rather than developing more of it.
> >
> > That would depend on how fast the car was going. It can do both.
>
> That surprises me a bit because these kinds of flows are rarely that
> Reynolds sensitive. Normally if there is flow going through it at low
> speed, there will be flow at high speed - higher speed air does not
> cause stall, no matter what someone on rasf1 thinks. Stall is caused by
> too high a pressure gradient, and depends on the state of the boundary
> layer. Laminar boundary layers (associated generally with low speed
> flows) separate under less strongly adverse pressure gradients than
> turbulent boundary layers (associated generally with higher speed
> flows). There's obviously more to it than that but the idea that the
> flow doesn't turn the corner because it's going too fast is basically
> incorrect - I'd be interested to know why you think that it would stall
> at high speeds.
>
> --
> Phil
>
IIRC, the top of the vent is shaped something like a NACA duct, but
has air flowing through it from under the nose to the top area. There
are also suppose to be four smaller parallel vents/vanes across it
that direct the flow at low speed but have no function (stall) at high
speed which causes the air to flow over the nose. I wish I could find
the page about it again. I should have book marked it.
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> IIRC, the top of the vent is shaped something like a NACA duct, but
> has air flowing through it from under the nose to the top area. There
> are also suppose to be four smaller parallel vents/vanes across it
> that direct the flow at low speed but have no function (stall) at high
> speed which causes the air to flow over the nose. I wish I could find
> the page about it again. I should have book marked it.
Hmmm. Well if it wasn't directly from Ferrari I'd say that's an odd
write up, especially as NACA ducts are designed to draw air in, not blow
air out. It'd be interesting to see it if you do find it again.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> IIRC, the top of the vent is shaped something like a NACA duct, but
> has air flowing through it from under the nose to the top area. There
> are also suppose to be four smaller parallel vents/vanes across it
> that direct the flow at low speed but have no function (stall) at high
> speed which causes the air to flow over the nose. I wish I could find
> the page about it again. I should have book marked it.
Hmmm. Well if it wasn't directly from Ferrari I'd say that's an odd
write up, especially as NACA ducts are designed to draw air in, not blow
air out. It'd be interesting to see it if you do find it again.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> > IIRC, the top of the vent is shaped something like a NACA duct, but
> > has air flowing through it from under the nose to the top area. There
> > are also suppose to be four smaller parallel vents/vanes across it
> > that direct the flow at low speed but have no function (stall) at high
> > speed which causes the air to flow over the nose. I wish I could find
> > the page about it again. I should have book marked it.
>
> Hmmm. Well if it wasn't directly from Ferrari I'd say that's an odd
> write up, especially as NACA ducts are designed to draw air in, not blow
> air out. It'd be interesting to see it if you do find it again.
>
> --
> Phil
Here's a reference to the Naca duct
http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
The rest I'm still looking!
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> > IIRC, the top of the vent is shaped something like a NACA duct, but
> > has air flowing through it from under the nose to the top area. There
> > are also suppose to be four smaller parallel vents/vanes across it
> > that direct the flow at low speed but have no function (stall) at high
> > speed which causes the air to flow over the nose. I wish I could find
> > the page about it again. I should have book marked it.
>
> Hmmm. Well if it wasn't directly from Ferrari I'd say that's an odd
> write up, especially as NACA ducts are designed to draw air in, not blow
> air out. It'd be interesting to see it if you do find it again.
>
> --
> Phil
Here's a reference to the Naca duct
http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
The rest I'm still looking!
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> Here's a reference to the Naca duct
> http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
> The rest I'm still looking!
Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
they're pretty familiar with designing already.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> Here's a reference to the Naca duct
> http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
> The rest I'm still looking!
Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
they're pretty familiar with designing already.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> > Here's a reference to the Naca duct
> > http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
> > The rest I'm still looking!
>
> Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
> geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
> reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
> and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
>
> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
>
> The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
> they're pretty familiar with designing already.
>
> --
> Phil
Perhaps the NACA duct is on the bottom plane of the nose?
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> > Here's a reference to the Naca duct
> > http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
> > The rest I'm still looking!
>
> Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
> geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
> reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
> and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
>
> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
>
> The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
> they're pretty familiar with designing already.
>
> --
> Phil
Perhaps the NACA duct is on the bottom plane of the nose?
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>
> Phil Newnham wrote:
>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>> Here's a reference to the Naca duct
>>> http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
>>> The rest I'm still looking!
>> Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
>> geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
>> reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
>> and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
>>
>> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
>>
>> The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
>> they're pretty familiar with designing already.
>>
>
> Perhaps the NACA duct is on the bottom plane of the nose?
Have a look at CatharticF1's photo of the underside.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>
> Phil Newnham wrote:
>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>> Here's a reference to the Naca duct
>>> http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
>>> The rest I'm still looking!
>> Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
>> geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
>> reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
>> and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
>>
>> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
>>
>> The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
>> they're pretty familiar with designing already.
>>
>
> Perhaps the NACA duct is on the bottom plane of the nose?
Have a look at CatharticF1's photo of the underside.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >
> > Phil Newnham wrote:
> >> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >>> Here's a reference to the Naca duct
> >>> http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
> >>> The rest I'm still looking!
> >> Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
> >> geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
> >> reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
> >> and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
> >>
> >> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
> >>
> >> The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
> >> they're pretty familiar with designing already.
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps the NACA duct is on the bottom plane of the nose?
>
> Have a look at CatharticF1's photo of the underside.
>
> --
> Phil
>
> http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
the leading edge, the analogy fits.
http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >
> > Phil Newnham wrote:
> >> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> >>> Here's a reference to the Naca duct
> >>> http :// www .formula1,com /teams and drivers/teams/3/technical/2008/524.html
> >>> The rest I'm still looking!
> >> Well, aerodynamically speaking it clearly isn't a NACA duct - the
> >> geometry is only vaguely similar. I'm not one for using Wikipedia as a
> >> reference but you can see what a proper NACA duct looks like at least
> >> and they have a reasonable explanation of how it's thought to work:
> >>
> >> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA duct
> >>
> >> The top vent is more similar to a flush cooling air exhaust, something
> >> they're pretty familiar with designing already.
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps the NACA duct is on the bottom plane of the nose?
>
> Have a look at CatharticF1's photo of the underside.
>
> --
> Phil
>
> http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
the leading edge, the analogy fits.
http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
> flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
> the leading edge, the analogy fits.
> http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
but nothing to do with how it actually works.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
> flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
> the leading edge, the analogy fits.
> http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
but nothing to do with how it actually works.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> > Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
> > flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
> > the leading edge, the analogy fits.
> > http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
>
> Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
> but nothing to do with how it actually works.
>
> --
> Phil
>
> http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Here's the original version:
http :// img163.imageshack.us/img163/539/ffnc2ts5jr8.jpg
Here's what went to the track:
http :// www .motorsport-total,com //bilder/2008/080414/z1208188803.jpg
As you can see they did use a Naca type duct in the beginning.
Phil Newnham wrote:
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
> > Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
> > flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
> > the leading edge, the analogy fits.
> > http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
>
> Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
> but nothing to do with how it actually works.
>
> --
> Phil
>
> http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Here's the original version:
http :// img163.imageshack.us/img163/539/ffnc2ts5jr8.jpg
Here's what went to the track:
http :// www .motorsport-total,com //bilder/2008/080414/z1208188803.jpg
As you can see they did use a Naca type duct in the beginning.
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>
> Phil Newnham wrote:
>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>> Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
>>> flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
>>> the leading edge, the analogy fits.
>>> http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
>> Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
>> but nothing to do with how it actually works.
>>
>
> Here's the original version:
> http :// img163.imageshack.us/img163/539/ffnc2ts5jr8.jpg
> Here's what went to the track:
> http :// www .motorsport-total,com //bilder/2008/080414/z1208188803.jpg
>
> As you can see they did use a Naca type duct in the beginning.
I reckon that's an F1 red herring - they often put parts on the car that
only vaguely resemble the real plan for launch photos and the like.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>
> Phil Newnham wrote:
>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>> Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
>>> flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
>>> the leading edge, the analogy fits.
>>> http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
>> Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
>> but nothing to do with how it actually works.
>>
>
> Here's the original version:
> http :// img163.imageshack.us/img163/539/ffnc2ts5jr8.jpg
> Here's what went to the track:
> http :// www .motorsport-total,com //bilder/2008/080414/z1208188803.jpg
>
> As you can see they did use a Naca type duct in the beginning.
I reckon that's an F1 red herring - they often put parts on the car that
only vaguely resemble the real plan for launch photos and the like.
--
Phil
http :// www .flickr,com /photos/tmc1979/
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in news:686kciF2otugiU1
@mid.individual,net :
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>
>> Phil Newnham wrote:
>>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>>> Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
>>>> flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
>>>> the leading edge, the analogy fits.
>>>> http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
>>> Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
>>> but nothing to do with how it actually works.
>>>
>>
>> Here's the original version:
>> http :// img163.imageshack.us/img163/539/ffnc2ts5jr8.jpg
>> Here's what went to the track:
>> http :// www .motorsport-total,com //bilder/2008/080414/z1208188803.jpg
>>
>> As you can see they did use a Naca type duct in the beginning.
>
> I reckon that's an F1 red herring - they often put parts on the car that
> only vaguely resemble the real plan for launch photos and the like.
That looks like one of the mockupS I saw that were photoshopped by someone
in advance of Ferrari's solution becoming public. They were certainly on
the right track if not with that particular detail.
--
CatharticF1
The thinking man:
"They say Kimi's ice-cool, like he's flat-lined, but I think my
subconscious is pretty much like that"
Gracious:
"I was able to trick him into out-braking himself .. I apologise for that
but .. we got the points, so it doesn't really matter."
And from humble beginnings:
"..avoid getting caught up with all the monkeys at the back."
Lewis Hamilton
Phil Newnham <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in news:686kciF2otugiU1
@mid.individual,net :
> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>
>> Phil Newnham wrote:
>>> Koolchicki@smurfsareus.xxx wrote:
>>>> Here's a photo of the top. If you think of a NACA duct turned around,
>>>> flipped side ways and split in half, where the trailing edge is now
>>>> the leading edge, the analogy fits.
>>>> http :// www .autosport,com /news/report.php/id/66640
>>> Well yes exactly - it's an analogy based on "they look a bit similar"
>>> but nothing to do with how it actually works.
>>>
>>
>> Here's the original version:
>> http :// img163.imageshack.us/img163/539/ffnc2ts5jr8.jpg
>> Here's what went to the track:
>> http :// www .motorsport-total,com //bilder/2008/080414/z1208188803.jpg
>>
>> As you can see they did use a Naca type duct in the beginning.
>
> I reckon that's an F1 red herring - they often put parts on the car that
> only vaguely resemble the real plan for launch photos and the like.
That looks like one of the mockupS I saw that were photoshopped by someone
in advance of Ferrari's solution becoming public. They were certainly on
the right track if not with that particular detail.
--
CatharticF1
The thinking man:
"They say Kimi's ice-cool, like he's flat-lined, but I think my
subconscious is pretty much like that"
Gracious:
"I was able to trick him into out-braking himself .. I apologise for that
but .. we got the points, so it doesn't really matter."
And from humble beginnings:
"..avoid getting caught up with all the monkeys at the back."
Lewis Hamilton
Re: The new Ferrari nose
Phil Newnham <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in
news:67teh8F2p5dtvU1@mid.individual,net :
> CatharticF1 wrote:
>> A very reliable poster on the Atlas BB posted this translated
>> interview with Ferrari's John Iley that you might find interesting:
>>
>> Translated Q&A with Iley:
>>
>> Q: If your ideas come from the past, then where have you gone
>> 'fishing' for the hole in the nose solution ?
>> Iley: ''I've been in Formula 1 for eleven years. The idea was going
>> around. It was only necessary to find the right moment to exploit the
>> idea. And this was the right moment, with the new regulations that
>> are to come. It's important to begin with exploiting areas that are
>> not considered by many, such as the geometry of the design. Because
>> everything could give you an advantage. When I started working in
>> Formula 1 it wasn't necessary to be at the limit of each aspect of
>> the car. Now it is necessary, and will be even more so in the
>> future.''
>
> I find this answer interesting, because it confirms my suspicion that
> this isn't a new idea, or something McLaren might have "found out
> about" last year only - it's been floating around for ages. It's the
> technical challenge that's the problem. This idea is aerodynamically
> very similar to this car:
>
> http :// www .dragtimes,com /images/10580-2005-Lotus-Elise.jpg
>
> Granted, the air is also being used for cooling, but if the Ferrari
> nose is supposed to improve underbody flow then the Elise radiator
> design is doing the same thing (and also reducing drag but that's for
> a different reason).
Here's the only picure I have seen of it from the underside:
http :// img249.imageshack.us/img249/9069/hgjdrgsenx9.jpg
--
CatharticF1
The thinking man:
"They say Kimi's ice-cool, like he's flat-lined, but I think my
subconscious is pretty much like that"
Gracious:
"I was able to trick him into out-braking himself .. I apologise for that
but .. we got the points, so it doesn't really matter."
And from humble beginnings:
"..avoid getting caught up with all the monkeys at the back."
Lewis Hamilton
Phil Newnham <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in
news:67teh8F2p5dtvU1@mid.individual,net :
> CatharticF1 wrote:
>> A very reliable poster on the Atlas BB posted this translated
>> interview with Ferrari's John Iley that you might find interesting:
>>
>> Translated Q&A with Iley:
>>
>> Q: If your ideas come from the past, then where have you gone
>> 'fishing' for the hole in the nose solution ?
>> Iley: ''I've been in Formula 1 for eleven years. The idea was going
>> around. It was only necessary to find the right moment to exploit the
>> idea. And this was the right moment, with the new regulations that
>> are to come. It's important to begin with exploiting areas that are
>> not considered by many, such as the geometry of the design. Because
>> everything could give you an advantage. When I started working in
>> Formula 1 it wasn't necessary to be at the limit of each aspect of
>> the car. Now it is necessary, and will be even more so in the
>> future.''
>
> I find this answer interesting, because it confirms my suspicion that
> this isn't a new idea, or something McLaren might have "found out
> about" last year only - it's been floating around for ages. It's the
> technical challenge that's the problem. This idea is aerodynamically
> very similar to this car:
>
> http :// www .dragtimes,com /images/10580-2005-Lotus-Elise.jpg
>
> Granted, the air is also being used for cooling, but if the Ferrari
> nose is supposed to improve underbody flow then the Elise radiator
> design is doing the same thing (and also reducing drag but that's for
> a different reason).
Here's the only picure I have seen of it from the underside:
http :// img249.imageshack.us/img249/9069/hgjdrgsenx9.jpg
--
CatharticF1
The thinking man:
"They say Kimi's ice-cool, like he's flat-lined, but I think my
subconscious is pretty much like that"
Gracious:
"I was able to trick him into out-braking himself .. I apologise for that
but .. we got the points, so it doesn't really matter."
And from humble beginnings:
"..avoid getting caught up with all the monkeys at the back."
Lewis Hamilton
Re: The new Ferrari nose
"CatharticF1" <rasf1poster@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A92958A78150rasf1postergmailcom@203.26.24.228...
> Phil Newnham <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in
> news:67teh8F2p5dtvU1@mid.individual,net :
>
>> CatharticF1 wrote:
>>> A very reliable poster on the Atlas BB posted this translated
>>> interview with Ferrari's John Iley that you might find interesting:
>>>
>>> Translated Q&A with Iley:
>>>
>>> Q: If your ideas come from the past, then where have you gone
>>> 'fishing' for the hole in the nose solution ?
>>> Iley: ''I've been in Formula 1 for eleven years. The idea was going
>>> around. It was only necessary to find the right moment to exploit the
>>> idea. And this was the right moment, with the new regulations that
>>> are to come. It's important to begin with exploiting areas that are
>>> not considered by many, such as the geometry of the design. Because
>>> everything could give you an advantage. When I started working in
>>> Formula 1 it wasn't necessary to be at the limit of each aspect of
>>> the car. Now it is necessary, and will be even more so in the
>>> future.''
>>
>> I find this answer interesting, because it confirms my suspicion that
>> this isn't a new idea, or something McLaren might have "found out
>> about" last year only - it's been floating around for ages. It's the
>> technical challenge that's the problem. This idea is aerodynamically
>> very similar to this car:
>>
>> http :// www .dragtimes,com /images/10580-2005-Lotus-Elise.jpg
>>
>> Granted, the air is also being used for cooling, but if the Ferrari
>> nose is supposed to improve underbody flow then the Elise radiator
>> design is doing the same thing (and also reducing drag but that's for
>> a different reason).
>
> Here's the only picure I have seen of it from the underside:
>
> http :// img249.imageshack.us/img249/9069/hgjdrgsenx9.jpg
>
> --
> CatharticF1
Thanks for posting that!
very interesting!
"CatharticF1" <rasf1poster@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A92958A78150rasf1postergmailcom@203.26.24.228...
> Phil Newnham <pnewnham@yahoo,com > wrote in
> news:67teh8F2p5dtvU1@mid.individual,net :
>
>> CatharticF1 wrote:
>>> A very reliable poster on the Atlas BB posted this translated
>>> interview with Ferrari's John Iley that you might find interesting:
>>>
>>> Translated Q&A with Iley:
>>>
>>> Q: If your ideas come from the past, then where have you gone
>>> 'fishing' for the hole in the nose solution ?
>>> Iley: ''I've been in Formula 1 for eleven years. The idea was going
>>> around. It was only necessary to find the right moment to exploit the
>>> idea. And this was the right moment, with the new regulations that
>>> are to come. It's important to begin with exploiting areas that are
>>> not considered by many, such as the geometry of the design. Because
>>> everything could give you an advantage. When I started working in
>>> Formula 1 it wasn't necessary to be at the limit of each aspect of
>>> the car. Now it is necessary, and will be even more so in the
>>> future.''
>>
>> I find this answer interesting, because it confirms my suspicion that
>> this isn't a new idea, or something McLaren might have "found out
>> about" last year only - it's been floating around for ages. It's the
>> technical challenge that's the problem. This idea is aerodynamically
>> very similar to this car:
>>
>> http :// www .dragtimes,com /images/10580-2005-Lotus-Elise.jpg
>>
>> Granted, the air is also being used for cooling, but if the Ferrari
>> nose is supposed to improve underbody flow then the Elise radiator
>> design is doing the same thing (and also reducing drag but that's for
>> a different reason).
>
> Here's the only picure I have seen of it from the underside:
>
> http :// img249.imageshack.us/img249/9069/hgjdrgsenx9.jpg
>
> --
> CatharticF1
Thanks for posting that!
very interesting!
