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Passing: Why One, Not Other
Passing: Why One, Not Other
Watching the Turkish GP.
We've all heard how impossible it is to pass in current F1 cars.
How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly executes a
pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
Keith
Watching the Turkish GP.
We've all heard how impossible it is to pass in current F1 cars.
How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly executes a
pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
Keith
Re: Passing: Why One, Not Other
> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly executes a
> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> Keith
I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
a) Hamilton's car, thanks to the 3 stop strategy, was light and
Massa's was fat with fuel
b) as Massa confirmed in the post-race interview, the team had told
him Hamilton was on a different strategy and wasn't a true threat to
him, so he wasn't inclined to take too may risks. Dare one suggest, in
terms of keeping his own drivers championship hopes alive, he also
wasn't exactly averse to Hamilton finishing ahead of Kimi?
Sutil, OTOH was fighting for position, not to mention desperate to do
what he could to boost his flagging reputation.
Michael
> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly executes a
> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> Keith
I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
a) Hamilton's car, thanks to the 3 stop strategy, was light and
Massa's was fat with fuel
b) as Massa confirmed in the post-race interview, the team had told
him Hamilton was on a different strategy and wasn't a true threat to
him, so he wasn't inclined to take too may risks. Dare one suggest, in
terms of keeping his own drivers championship hopes alive, he also
wasn't exactly averse to Hamilton finishing ahead of Kimi?
Sutil, OTOH was fighting for position, not to mention desperate to do
what he could to boost his flagging reputation.
Michael
Re: Passing: Why One, Not Other
"MO 944 Turbo" <michael.olsson@uts.edu.au> wrote:
> a) Hamilton's car, thanks to the 3 stop strategy, was light and
> Massa's was fat with fuel
Hamilton had fuel for another 8 laps and Massa for 16 ~20kg difference.
Kovalainen caught Sutil on lap 12 - the gap was 04s, He passed him within one lap.
--
Brian
"MO 944 Turbo" <michael.olsson@uts.edu.au> wrote:
> a) Hamilton's car, thanks to the 3 stop strategy, was light and
> Massa's was fat with fuel
Hamilton had fuel for another 8 laps and Massa for 16 ~20kg difference.
Kovalainen caught Sutil on lap 12 - the gap was 04s, He passed him within one lap.
--
Brian
Re: Passing: Why One, Not Other
On May 20, 6:20 pm, MO 944 Turbo <michael.ols...@uts.edu.au> wrote:
> > How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly executes a
> > pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> > Keith
>
> I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
>
> a) Hamilton's car, thanks to the 3 stop strategy, was light and
> Massa's was fat with fuel
>
> b) as Massa confirmed in the post-race interview, the team had told
> him Hamilton was on a different strategy and wasn't a true threat to
> him, so he wasn't inclined to take too may risks. Dare one suggest, in
> terms of keeping his own drivers championship hopes alive, he also
> wasn't exactly averse to Hamilton finishing ahead of Kimi?
>
> Sutil, OTOH was fighting for position, not to mention desperate to do
> what he could to boost his flagging reputation.
>
> Michael
G'day Michael,
You may have thought it was "obvious" but it was not "obvious" at all
mate, that would depend on your experience of F1.
For example you "obviously" did not notice that Heikki was heavy with
fuel, others would have. It is all relevant.
Mind you it may have been more obvious to the masses had the idiots
behind the microphones who knew damn well LH was very light had let
the public know.
And ... Keith,
Don't think Massa is more formidable than Sutil mate, it's quite
possible Sutil could make a monkey of Massa if he were driving a
Ferarri.
No offense to anyone.
beers,
build
On May 20, 6:20 pm, MO 944 Turbo <michael.ols...@uts.edu.au> wrote:
> > How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly executes a
> > pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> > Keith
>
> I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
>
> a) Hamilton's car, thanks to the 3 stop strategy, was light and
> Massa's was fat with fuel
>
> b) as Massa confirmed in the post-race interview, the team had told
> him Hamilton was on a different strategy and wasn't a true threat to
> him, so he wasn't inclined to take too may risks. Dare one suggest, in
> terms of keeping his own drivers championship hopes alive, he also
> wasn't exactly averse to Hamilton finishing ahead of Kimi?
>
> Sutil, OTOH was fighting for position, not to mention desperate to do
> what he could to boost his flagging reputation.
>
> Michael
G'day Michael,
You may have thought it was "obvious" but it was not "obvious" at all
mate, that would depend on your experience of F1.
For example you "obviously" did not notice that Heikki was heavy with
fuel, others would have. It is all relevant.
Mind you it may have been more obvious to the masses had the idiots
behind the microphones who knew damn well LH was very light had let
the public know.
And ... Keith,
Don't think Massa is more formidable than Sutil mate, it's quite
possible Sutil could make a monkey of Massa if he were driving a
Ferarri.
No offense to anyone.
beers,
build
Re: Passing: Why One, Not Other
"MO 944 Turbo" <michael.olsson@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:069b462a-401d-4f5a-a69d-39d49e4967a3@f24g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
>> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly
>> executes a
>> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
Well... not really.
a) Hamilton's lighter car was around (memory struggling a bit) one & a bit
sec. faster per lap. Heikki was also about a sec a lap faster than Sutil.
The deltas weren't that different.
b) It did cross my mind that Massa could have "just let him go"... but even
if he did "know" Hamilton was on a 3-stopper, why would he? As the final
stint showed, even if Massa wasn't really pushed, there wasn't a whole lot
of margin in it at the end.
My thinking - Hamilton must have caught Massa over-confidently napping.
Again. Looking at the replay Massa moves in a "what are you doing here?"
manner. Meanwhile Sutil would have been watching that McLaren coming up for
a while and expected a fight (and gave a pretty good one).
Only rationale I can come up with.
Keith
"MO 944 Turbo" <michael.olsson@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:069b462a-401d-4f5a-a69d-39d49e4967a3@f24g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
>> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly
>> executes a
>> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
Well... not really.
a) Hamilton's lighter car was around (memory struggling a bit) one & a bit
sec. faster per lap. Heikki was also about a sec a lap faster than Sutil.
The deltas weren't that different.
b) It did cross my mind that Massa could have "just let him go"... but even
if he did "know" Hamilton was on a 3-stopper, why would he? As the final
stint showed, even if Massa wasn't really pushed, there wasn't a whole lot
of margin in it at the end.
My thinking - Hamilton must have caught Massa over-confidently napping.
Again. Looking at the replay Massa moves in a "what are you doing here?"
manner. Meanwhile Sutil would have been watching that McLaren coming up for
a while and expected a fight (and gave a pretty good one).
Only rationale I can come up with.
Keith
Re: Passing: Why One, Not Other
On May 22, 12:00 pm, "Keith Crossley" <kcros...@frontiernet,net >
wrote:
> "MO 944 Turbo" <michael.ols...@uts.edu.au> wrote in messagenews:069b462a-401d-4f5a-a69d-39d49e4967a3@f24g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
>
> >> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly
> >> executes a
> >> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> > I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
>
> Well... not really.
>
> a) Hamilton's lighter car was around (memory struggling a bit) one & a bit
> sec. faster per lap. Heikki was also about a sec a lap faster than Sutil.
> The deltas weren't that different.
>
> b) It did cross my mind that Massa could have "just let him go"... but even
> if he did "know" Hamilton was on a 3-stopper, why would he? As the final
> stint showed, even if Massa wasn't really pushed, there wasn't a whole lot
> of margin in it at the end.
>
> My thinking - Hamilton must have caught Massa over-confidently napping.
> Again. Looking at the replay Massa moves in a "what are you doing here?"
> manner. Meanwhile Sutil would have been watching that McLaren coming up for
> a while and expected a fight (and gave a pretty good one).
>
> Only rationale I can come up with.
>
> Keith
G'day Keith,
Don't kid yourself mate, no journalist or commentator has suggested
otherwise. Fact, Massa "let Lewis go" end of story.
Mind you I was impressed with his grit in the race as he pushed when
it counted and not just when he had a carrot. He is maturing well.
Adrian and Heikki did what young racers do, they raced regardless of
the outcome. If Sutil were older he may have let Heikki go and
concentrated on elapsed time.
beers,
build
On May 22, 12:00 pm, "Keith Crossley" <kcros...@frontiernet,net >
wrote:
> "MO 944 Turbo" <michael.ols...@uts.edu.au> wrote in messagenews:069b462a-401d-4f5a-a69d-39d49e4967a3@f24g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
>
> >> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly
> >> executes a
> >> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> > I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
>
> Well... not really.
>
> a) Hamilton's lighter car was around (memory struggling a bit) one & a bit
> sec. faster per lap. Heikki was also about a sec a lap faster than Sutil.
> The deltas weren't that different.
>
> b) It did cross my mind that Massa could have "just let him go"... but even
> if he did "know" Hamilton was on a 3-stopper, why would he? As the final
> stint showed, even if Massa wasn't really pushed, there wasn't a whole lot
> of margin in it at the end.
>
> My thinking - Hamilton must have caught Massa over-confidently napping.
> Again. Looking at the replay Massa moves in a "what are you doing here?"
> manner. Meanwhile Sutil would have been watching that McLaren coming up for
> a while and expected a fight (and gave a pretty good one).
>
> Only rationale I can come up with.
>
> Keith
G'day Keith,
Don't kid yourself mate, no journalist or commentator has suggested
otherwise. Fact, Massa "let Lewis go" end of story.
Mind you I was impressed with his grit in the race as he pushed when
it counted and not just when he had a carrot. He is maturing well.
Adrian and Heikki did what young racers do, they raced regardless of
the outcome. If Sutil were older he may have let Heikki go and
concentrated on elapsed time.
beers,
build
Re: Passing: Why One, Not Other
On May 22, 12:00 pm, "Keith Crossley" <kcros...@frontiernet,net >
wrote:
> "MO 944 Turbo" <michael.ols...@uts.edu.au> wrote in messagenews:069b462a-401d-4f5a-a69d-39d49e4967a3@f24g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
>
> >> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly
> >> executes a
> >> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> > I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
>
> Well... not really.
>
> a) Hamilton's lighter car was around (memory struggling a bit) one & a bit
> sec. faster per lap. Heikki was also about a sec a lap faster than Sutil.
> The deltas weren't that different.
>
> b) It did cross my mind that Massa could have "just let him go"... but even
> if he did "know" Hamilton was on a 3-stopper, why would he? As the final
> stint showed, even if Massa wasn't really pushed, there wasn't a whole lot
> of margin in it at the end.
>
> My thinking - Hamilton must have caught Massa over-confidently napping.
> Again. Looking at the replay Massa moves in a "what are you doing here?"
> manner. Meanwhile Sutil would have been watching that McLaren coming up for
> a while and expected a fight (and gave a pretty good one).
>
> Only rationale I can come up with.
>
> Keith
Keith,
Also, Heikki's car was heavy with fuel therefore had less braking than
Adrian's car.
beers,
build
On May 22, 12:00 pm, "Keith Crossley" <kcros...@frontiernet,net >
wrote:
> "MO 944 Turbo" <michael.ols...@uts.edu.au> wrote in messagenews:069b462a-401d-4f5a-a69d-39d49e4967a3@f24g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
>
> >> How is it that Kovaleinen cannot pass Sutil, yet Hamilton swiftly
> >> executes a
> >> pass on (a far more formidable, one would think) Massa?
>
> > I'd have thought the resons were fairly obvious:
>
> Well... not really.
>
> a) Hamilton's lighter car was around (memory struggling a bit) one & a bit
> sec. faster per lap. Heikki was also about a sec a lap faster than Sutil.
> The deltas weren't that different.
>
> b) It did cross my mind that Massa could have "just let him go"... but even
> if he did "know" Hamilton was on a 3-stopper, why would he? As the final
> stint showed, even if Massa wasn't really pushed, there wasn't a whole lot
> of margin in it at the end.
>
> My thinking - Hamilton must have caught Massa over-confidently napping.
> Again. Looking at the replay Massa moves in a "what are you doing here?"
> manner. Meanwhile Sutil would have been watching that McLaren coming up for
> a while and expected a fight (and gave a pretty good one).
>
> Only rationale I can come up with.
>
> Keith
Keith,
Also, Heikki's car was heavy with fuel therefore had less braking than
Adrian's car.
beers,
build
