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Mosley in Paris
Mosley in Paris
Does anybody think he's going to survive this vote?
Kimbo xx
--
www .bykimbo,com
Does anybody think he's going to survive this vote?
Kimbo xx
--
www .bykimbo,com
Re: Mosley in Paris
Kim Andrews wrote:
> Does anybody think he's going to survive this vote?
>
> Kimbo xx
I sincerely hope not. Whilst he may have bullied the smaller
clubs/countries into voting in his favour he has been criticised and
ostracised by many of the Countries which host FIA events, many of the
larger manufacturers and team principals have said he should go, and
I'm sure there are a good few sponsors who are putting pressure on
behind the scenes to get him to step down. Even Bernie says he should
go.
The vote was a farce and a perfect example of the hypocrisy exhibited
by the ruling body, especially in view of his comments last year about
McLaren. As Damon said, the genie is out of the bottle and what's been
done can't be undone.
The man has no dignity. He's the public face of Motor Racing and what
he does in public or is revealed to have done in private reflects upon
his ability to do the job, not just technically but in the PR job he
should do for Motor Racing.
--
Paul-B
Kim Andrews wrote:
> Does anybody think he's going to survive this vote?
>
> Kimbo xx
I sincerely hope not. Whilst he may have bullied the smaller
clubs/countries into voting in his favour he has been criticised and
ostracised by many of the Countries which host FIA events, many of the
larger manufacturers and team principals have said he should go, and
I'm sure there are a good few sponsors who are putting pressure on
behind the scenes to get him to step down. Even Bernie says he should
go.
The vote was a farce and a perfect example of the hypocrisy exhibited
by the ruling body, especially in view of his comments last year about
McLaren. As Damon said, the genie is out of the bottle and what's been
done can't be undone.
The man has no dignity. He's the public face of Motor Racing and what
he does in public or is revealed to have done in private reflects upon
his ability to do the job, not just technically but in the PR job he
should do for Motor Racing.
--
Paul-B
Re: Mosley in Paris
Paul-B wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>
>> Does anybody think he's going to survive this vote?
>>
>> Kimbo xx
>
> I sincerely hope not. Whilst he may have bullied the smaller
> clubs/countries into voting in his favour he has been criticised and
> ostracised by many of the Countries which host FIA events, many of the
> larger manufacturers and team principals have said he should go, and
> I'm sure there are a good few sponsors who are putting pressure on
> behind the scenes to get him to step down. Even Bernie says he should
> go.
[...]
Of course, my original comment was posted before the result was out...
but even now we know he's theoretically made it through, as you say, I
still can't quite believe in this survival. The supposed vote of
confidence has simply made his position look more untenable than ever.
> The man has no dignity. He's the public face of Motor Racing and what
> he does in public or is revealed to have done in private reflects upon
> his ability to do the job, not just technically but in the PR job he
> should do for Motor Racing.
>
Yep. My view is that his private life is entirely his own affair and
should *not* have become a matter for public entertainment... but it
has, and sad though that is, he really cannot continue in such a public
role and expect to be taken seriously. The breach of his privacy is not
the FIA's fault or responsibility, and the fallout should not become
their problem. He needs to take himself out of the arena, and go and
conduct his fight privately.
After all, he'd probably enjoy that. ;o)
Kimbo xx
--
www .bykimbo,com
Paul-B wrote:
> Kim Andrews wrote:
>
>> Does anybody think he's going to survive this vote?
>>
>> Kimbo xx
>
> I sincerely hope not. Whilst he may have bullied the smaller
> clubs/countries into voting in his favour he has been criticised and
> ostracised by many of the Countries which host FIA events, many of the
> larger manufacturers and team principals have said he should go, and
> I'm sure there are a good few sponsors who are putting pressure on
> behind the scenes to get him to step down. Even Bernie says he should
> go.
[...]
Of course, my original comment was posted before the result was out...
but even now we know he's theoretically made it through, as you say, I
still can't quite believe in this survival. The supposed vote of
confidence has simply made his position look more untenable than ever.
> The man has no dignity. He's the public face of Motor Racing and what
> he does in public or is revealed to have done in private reflects upon
> his ability to do the job, not just technically but in the PR job he
> should do for Motor Racing.
>
Yep. My view is that his private life is entirely his own affair and
should *not* have become a matter for public entertainment... but it
has, and sad though that is, he really cannot continue in such a public
role and expect to be taken seriously. The breach of his privacy is not
the FIA's fault or responsibility, and the fallout should not become
their problem. He needs to take himself out of the arena, and go and
conduct his fight privately.
After all, he'd probably enjoy that. ;o)
Kimbo xx
--
www .bykimbo,com
Re: Mosley in Paris
Eddie Jordan was interviewed on PM (Radio4 - you can listen again prior to
5pm), and basically, he said that Max did a superb job as head of the FIA
(he was particularly approving of the safety measures MM rammed in after
Ratzenberger and Senna, over the wishes of the teams, commenting that
without Mosely we'd have had more deaths since then). Okay, he's a pervert,
but he does a superb job was the thrust of his argument.
Baring in mind that Max has done nothing illegal - and from his
generational/societal point of view, when visiting prostitutes to get what
your wife wouldn't give was socially acceptable, most of the FIA probably
wondered what the fuss was and judged him on his ability to do the job.
Okay, the thought of the sado-masochistic routines made me queasy (and
whilst performing them is not illegal, photographing them may soon be...),
and the Third Reich motif was even more disturbing, but, it's not relevant
to his ability to run the FIA, and accordingly the vote went the way it did.
Given the revelations all those years ago by Cynthia Payne about what goes
on in high class brothels, and which social classes are the biggest
purchasers of such stimulation, quite frankly, I'm very, very surprised at
the level of opprobrium. Given the level, or rather, depths, of degradation
and depravity that exist, fairly openly, on the internet, I'm even more
surprised. Given the jokes that folk make when sending links to said URLs
in emails, I'm forced to give way to astonishment. We live in a world where
such things are becoming more and more common, as the Internet provides a
platform for all folk to show their wares.
The vote yesterday, paranoia about vote rigging/buying notwithstanding,
appears to have been a vote about his ability to do the job. And given the
comments from folk like EJ, I'm not surprised it went in his favour.
Having spouted all this rant, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not in
favour of Max staying on, but for vastly different reasons than paying a
bunch of working girls to get his jollies.
all the best,
Eddie
Eddie Jordan was interviewed on PM (Radio4 - you can listen again prior to
5pm), and basically, he said that Max did a superb job as head of the FIA
(he was particularly approving of the safety measures MM rammed in after
Ratzenberger and Senna, over the wishes of the teams, commenting that
without Mosely we'd have had more deaths since then). Okay, he's a pervert,
but he does a superb job was the thrust of his argument.
Baring in mind that Max has done nothing illegal - and from his
generational/societal point of view, when visiting prostitutes to get what
your wife wouldn't give was socially acceptable, most of the FIA probably
wondered what the fuss was and judged him on his ability to do the job.
Okay, the thought of the sado-masochistic routines made me queasy (and
whilst performing them is not illegal, photographing them may soon be...),
and the Third Reich motif was even more disturbing, but, it's not relevant
to his ability to run the FIA, and accordingly the vote went the way it did.
Given the revelations all those years ago by Cynthia Payne about what goes
on in high class brothels, and which social classes are the biggest
purchasers of such stimulation, quite frankly, I'm very, very surprised at
the level of opprobrium. Given the level, or rather, depths, of degradation
and depravity that exist, fairly openly, on the internet, I'm even more
surprised. Given the jokes that folk make when sending links to said URLs
in emails, I'm forced to give way to astonishment. We live in a world where
such things are becoming more and more common, as the Internet provides a
platform for all folk to show their wares.
The vote yesterday, paranoia about vote rigging/buying notwithstanding,
appears to have been a vote about his ability to do the job. And given the
comments from folk like EJ, I'm not surprised it went in his favour.
Having spouted all this rant, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not in
favour of Max staying on, but for vastly different reasons than paying a
bunch of working girls to get his jollies.
all the best,
Eddie
Re: Mosley in Paris
"PoB" <Pob@lackof.org> wrote in message
news:g265uf$hd1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> The vote yesterday, paranoia about vote rigging/buying notwithstanding,
> appears to have been a vote about his ability to do the job.
Since his job involves lobbying governments who since the revelations are
increasingly unwilling to meet with him, surely he is /not/ able to do his
job? the FIA seem to have fixed this by appointing 2 assistants who will in
fact take over this aspect of his role, rather than fixing the problem
properly. Seems a cop-out to me.
Paul
"PoB" <Pob@lackof.org> wrote in message
news:g265uf$hd1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> The vote yesterday, paranoia about vote rigging/buying notwithstanding,
> appears to have been a vote about his ability to do the job.
Since his job involves lobbying governments who since the revelations are
increasingly unwilling to meet with him, surely he is /not/ able to do his
job? the FIA seem to have fixed this by appointing 2 assistants who will in
fact take over this aspect of his role, rather than fixing the problem
properly. Seems a cop-out to me.
Paul
Re: Mosley in Paris
Paul Ian Harman wrote:
> "PoB" <Pob@lackof.org> wrote in message
> news:g265uf$hd1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
>> The vote yesterday, paranoia about vote rigging/buying
>> notwithstanding, appears to have been a vote about his ability to
>> do the job.
> Since his job involves lobbying governments who since the revelations
> are increasingly unwilling to meet with him, surely he is /not/ able
> to do his job?
Exactly. It's not a question of rights - the publicity has damaged not
only his ability to carry out his responsibilities but the reputation of
the FIA (and, to some extent, the image of F1).
> the FIA seem to have fixed this by appointing 2 assistants who will
> in fact take over this aspect of his role, rather than fixing the
> problem properly.
Do you have a reference that says this has actually happened? A
proposal have the two Deputy Presidents do this through November, when
Max would then resign, in return for cancellation of the no-confidence
vote, was presented to Mosley by Franco Lucchesi and Werner Kraus in
late May, but was rejected. AFAIK Max has not indicated he is willing
to be replaced, even temporarily.
--
Mark Jackson - http :// www .alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Men become civilized, not in proportion to their
willingness to believe, but in proportion to their
readiness to doubt. - H. L. Mencken
Paul Ian Harman wrote:
> "PoB" <Pob@lackof.org> wrote in message
> news:g265uf$hd1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
>> The vote yesterday, paranoia about vote rigging/buying
>> notwithstanding, appears to have been a vote about his ability to
>> do the job.
> Since his job involves lobbying governments who since the revelations
> are increasingly unwilling to meet with him, surely he is /not/ able
> to do his job?
Exactly. It's not a question of rights - the publicity has damaged not
only his ability to carry out his responsibilities but the reputation of
the FIA (and, to some extent, the image of F1).
> the FIA seem to have fixed this by appointing 2 assistants who will
> in fact take over this aspect of his role, rather than fixing the
> problem properly.
Do you have a reference that says this has actually happened? A
proposal have the two Deputy Presidents do this through November, when
Max would then resign, in return for cancellation of the no-confidence
vote, was presented to Mosley by Franco Lucchesi and Werner Kraus in
late May, but was rejected. AFAIK Max has not indicated he is willing
to be replaced, even temporarily.
--
Mark Jackson - http :// www .alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Men become civilized, not in proportion to their
willingness to believe, but in proportion to their
readiness to doubt. - H. L. Mencken
Reply from: -- messaggio eliminato --
Date: 05 Jun 2008, 10:15
-- deleted messages --
Re: Mosley in Paris
On 2008-06-04 17:30:08 +0200, "Paul Ian Harman"
<chatterbox@doctorwhowebguide,net > said:
>
> Since his job involves lobbying governments who since the revelations are
> increasingly unwilling to meet with him, surely he is /not/ able to do his
> job? the FIA seem to have fixed this by appointing 2 assistants who will in
> fact take over this aspect of his role, rather than fixing the problem
> properly. Seems a cop-out to me.
It seems the way he fixed it was not to fix it at all, but the rather
egalitarian voting system, which basically amounts to the same votes
per country, irrespectve of the size of the country. That gave the
western countries - which were most vocal - the least voice, and also
meant that where a vote was "shared" they were either not able to vote,
or had to vote to keep him.
--
Stephen M Baines
http :// www .kitschcamppalace.org.uk
http :// www .alledal.nu
On 2008-06-04 17:30:08 +0200, "Paul Ian Harman"
<chatterbox@doctorwhowebguide,net > said:
>
> Since his job involves lobbying governments who since the revelations are
> increasingly unwilling to meet with him, surely he is /not/ able to do his
> job? the FIA seem to have fixed this by appointing 2 assistants who will in
> fact take over this aspect of his role, rather than fixing the problem
> properly. Seems a cop-out to me.
It seems the way he fixed it was not to fix it at all, but the rather
egalitarian voting system, which basically amounts to the same votes
per country, irrespectve of the size of the country. That gave the
western countries - which were most vocal - the least voice, and also
meant that where a vote was "shared" they were either not able to vote,
or had to vote to keep him.
--
Stephen M Baines
http :// www .kitschcamppalace.org.uk
http :// www .alledal.nu
Re: Mosley in Paris
PoB <Pob@lackof.org> wrote:
> Baring in mind that Max has done nothing illegal - and from his
> generational/societal point of view, when visiting prostitutes to get what
> your wife wouldn't give was socially acceptable, most of the FIA probably
> wondered what the fuss was and judged him on his ability to do the job.
I think he frequenting prostitutes is a private matter, between him and
his wife.
> Okay, the thought of the sado-masochistic routines made me queasy
I think it is a bit more serious than that. I am not sure which is
the current classification of masochism (it used to be considered a
psychological illness (see Wikipedia, for instance)), but although I
don't doubt that it is not rare, specially in people of his background
and education, I think many people would think that a masochist has
a psychological problem.
Anyway, he being a masochist doesn't harm anyone but himself, so not much
of a problem there.
OTOH, being a sadist, IMHO, disqualifies him from a position in which he
regularly punishes people*. I don't suppose any journalist will have
the nerve to ask him, but someone should: "Did you have a hard-on while
fining McLaren 100 million dollars ?"
* and I accept that I might being naive. Maybe a lot of judges (who
have the power to jail people, not just fining them) are also sadists.
And one of SAC's commanders in chief has been described by either his
subordinates or his commander (I don't remember which) as a sadist which
is even more worrying, considering that he controlled nuclear weapons
(and at the time PAL codes were set to 00000000!)
> (and whilst performing them is not illegal, photographing them may soon be...),
> and the Third Reich motif was even more disturbing,
More than disturbing. With his family history there was always a slight
suspicion about his political opinions. Now it is hard to believe that
he is not a Nazi sympathizer (lice inspection ? That is not exactly a
well-know detail).
> but, it's not relevant to his ability to run the FIA,
It is, when a lot of people and institutions are embarrassed to be seen
with him.
--
http :// www .mat.uc.pt/~rps/
.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
PoB <Pob@lackof.org> wrote:
> Baring in mind that Max has done nothing illegal - and from his
> generational/societal point of view, when visiting prostitutes to get what
> your wife wouldn't give was socially acceptable, most of the FIA probably
> wondered what the fuss was and judged him on his ability to do the job.
I think he frequenting prostitutes is a private matter, between him and
his wife.
> Okay, the thought of the sado-masochistic routines made me queasy
I think it is a bit more serious than that. I am not sure which is
the current classification of masochism (it used to be considered a
psychological illness (see Wikipedia, for instance)), but although I
don't doubt that it is not rare, specially in people of his background
and education, I think many people would think that a masochist has
a psychological problem.
Anyway, he being a masochist doesn't harm anyone but himself, so not much
of a problem there.
OTOH, being a sadist, IMHO, disqualifies him from a position in which he
regularly punishes people*. I don't suppose any journalist will have
the nerve to ask him, but someone should: "Did you have a hard-on while
fining McLaren 100 million dollars ?"
* and I accept that I might being naive. Maybe a lot of judges (who
have the power to jail people, not just fining them) are also sadists.
And one of SAC's commanders in chief has been described by either his
subordinates or his commander (I don't remember which) as a sadist which
is even more worrying, considering that he controlled nuclear weapons
(and at the time PAL codes were set to 00000000!)
> (and whilst performing them is not illegal, photographing them may soon be...),
> and the Third Reich motif was even more disturbing,
More than disturbing. With his family history there was always a slight
suspicion about his political opinions. Now it is hard to believe that
he is not a Nazi sympathizer (lice inspection ? That is not exactly a
well-know detail).
> but, it's not relevant to his ability to run the FIA,
It is, when a lot of people and institutions are embarrassed to be seen
with him.
--
http :// www .mat.uc.pt/~rps/
.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94
Re: Mosley in Paris
In article <g265uf$hd1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, "PoB" <Pob@lackof.org>
writes:
> Okay, the thought of the sado-masochistic routines made me queasy (and
> whilst performing them is not illegal, photographing them may soon be...),
> and the Third Reich motif was even more disturbing, but, it's not relevant
> to his ability to run the FIA, and accordingly the vote went the way it did.
But prior to the disclosures, there could well have been relevance to
his ability to run the FIA. If someone who ran cars of one colour
found out about Max's peccadilloes and suggested that he, let's say,
fine cars of another colour a big sum of money and take away their
points, otherwise the newspapers might find out about his little
dungeon, then that would be affecting his performance of the role. Not
that I think that ever happened, of course.
--
Mike Fleming
In article <g265uf$hd1$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, "PoB" <Pob@lackof.org>
writes:
> Okay, the thought of the sado-masochistic routines made me queasy (and
> whilst performing them is not illegal, photographing them may soon be...),
> and the Third Reich motif was even more disturbing, but, it's not relevant
> to his ability to run the FIA, and accordingly the vote went the way it did.
But prior to the disclosures, there could well have been relevance to
his ability to run the FIA. If someone who ran cars of one colour
found out about Max's peccadilloes and suggested that he, let's say,
fine cars of another colour a big sum of money and take away their
points, otherwise the newspapers might find out about his little
dungeon, then that would be affecting his performance of the role. Not
that I think that ever happened, of course.
--
Mike Fleming
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