Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:55:10 +0100, Tony Gartshore
<ditch@bogsnorkle,com > wrote:

>In article <1tssi5-gtv.ln1@ascari.gasny.homeip,net >,
>usenet@localhost.kitschcamppalace.org.uk says...
>> Typical, eh?
>>
>> "We are discussing the possibility of reaching an agreement with
>> Donington to host the British Grand Prix," Ecclestone was quoted as saying.
>>
>LOL, imagine the queues to get in and out !
>

There weren't any queues last time.

--

Ian D

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Stephen M Baines wrote:
> Typical, eh?

I wouldn't say so - Bernie's negotiating ploys have generally been less
transparent than this one.

Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting the 2009
USGP.

--
Mark Jackson - http :// www .alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
Men become civilized, not in proportion to their
willingness to believe, but in proportion to their
readiness to doubt. - H. L. Mencken

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

[Default] Thus spake Mark Jackson <mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu>:

>Stephen M Baines wrote:
>> Typical, eh?
>
>I wouldn't say so - Bernie's negotiating ploys have generally been less
>transparent than this one.

Like telling Phony Tony that Singapore had $60M for the race fee? Or
that Inda had 80? Or assuring Joie Chitwood (who has been around the
block a few times) that Indy would have a 2009 date.

>
>Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting the 2009
>USGP.

Buttonwillow is a very nice track. All they need is about $100M in
additions. Or MSR in Sugarland, TX (south of Houston). I'm sure
their members have the cash.

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

"Mark Jackson" <mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:485c2774$0$4092$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
>
> I wouldn't say so - Bernie's negotiating ploys have generally been less
> transparent than this one.
>
> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting the 2009
> USGP.
>

Just heard on Speed Channel that the 2009 schedule be released this week and
Indy is going to be on it. We shall see.

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Mark Jackson wrote:

> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting the 2009
> USGP.

Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose money
paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? - but I am
checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen is just down the
road from Rochester. . . .

--
Mark Jackson - http :// www .alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The law does not pretend to punish everything that is
dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.
- Clarence Darrow

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Mark Jackson wrote:
> Mark Jackson wrote:
>
>> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting the
>> 2009 USGP.
>
> Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose money
> paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? - but I am
> checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen is just down the
> road from Rochester. . . .
>

The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of trustees... the
flexibility to act is rather greater with the former than the latter.


--
Kimbo xx

www .booksbykimbo,com

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Kim Andrews wrote:
> Mark Jackson wrote:
>> Mark Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting the
>>> 2009 USGP.
>>
>> Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose money
>> paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? - but I am
>> checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen is just down the
>> road from Rochester. . . .
>>
>
> The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
> businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of trustees... the
> flexibility to act is rather greater with the former than the latter.

Indeed, and I can't help but wonder if the fact they are American
businessmen, iirc, has a bigger bearing on this WRT a new American GP.

--
Stephen M Baines
http :// www .kitschcamppalace.org.uk
http :// www .alledal.nu

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Stephen M Baines wrote:

> Kim Andrews wrote:
> > Mark Jackson wrote:
> > > Mark Jackson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting
> > > > the 2009 USGP.
> > >
> > > Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose
> > > money paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? -
> > > but I am checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen
> > > is just down the road from Rochester. . . .
> > >
> >
> > The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
> > businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of trustees...
> > the flexibility to act is rather greater with the former than the
> > latter.
>
> Indeed, and I can't help but wonder if the fact they are American
> businessmen, iirc, has a bigger bearing on this WRT a new American GP.

Interesting article by Kevin Eason in the Times Online :

http :// www .timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula 1/article4191214.ece

--
Paul-B

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:40:05 -0600, Paul-B wrote
(in article <6d9m0uF1huc9U1@mid.individual,net >):

> Stephen M Baines wrote:
>
>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>> Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting
>>>>> the 2009 USGP.
>>>>
>>>> Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose
>>>> money paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? -
>>>> but I am checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen
>>>> is just down the road from Rochester. . . .
>>>>
>>>
>>> The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
>>> businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of trustees...
>>> the flexibility to act is rather greater with the former than the
>>> latter.
>>
>> Indeed, and I can't help but wonder if the fact they are American
>> businessmen, iirc, has a bigger bearing on this WRT a new American GP.
>
> Interesting article by Kevin Eason in the Times Online :
>
> http :// www .timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article4191214.ece


I tried to read the article but that picture made me spit beer all over my
screen/keyboard. Sheesh, what's it all about?



--
Cheers!

Dennis

Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Ruddell wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:40:05 -0600, Paul-B wrote
> (in article <6d9m0uF1huc9U1@mid.individual,net >):
>
> > Stephen M Baines wrote:
> >
> >> Kim Andrews wrote:
> >>> Mark Jackson wrote:
> >>>> Mark Jackson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting
> >>>>> the 2009 USGP.
> >>>>
> >>>> Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose
> >>>> money paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? -
> >>>> but I am checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen
> >>>> is just down the road from Rochester. . . .
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
> >>> businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of
> trustees... >>> the flexibility to act is rather greater with the
> former than the >>> latter.
> >>
> >> Indeed, and I can't help but wonder if the fact they are American
> >> businessmen, iirc, has a bigger bearing on this WRT a new American
> GP.
> >
> > Interesting article by Kevin Eason in the Times Online :
> >
> > http :// www .timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula 1/article4191214.ece
>
>
> I tried to read the article but that picture made me spit beer all
> over my screen/keyboard. Sheesh, what's it all about?

Pity Bernie Ecclestone was in France watching Lewis Hamilton's travails
this weekend. He should have stayed in Britain and tried punching the
postcode DE74 2RP into the SatNav of his Mercedes and then taking a
two-hour drive northwards up the M1 to Castle Donington. If he thinks
the Magny Cours circuit is short on charisma to the extent that he is
crossing it off the Formula One calendar, he should be here.

The diminutive maestro of Formula One is a notorious megaphone diplomat
and dropping the bombshell the other day that he was negotiating to
switch the nation's biggest motor racing event from Silverstone to
Donington Park just two weeks before Silverstone opens its gates for
the 2008 British Grand Prix was no surprise. But those of us who have
been esconced in Donington this weekend for the MotoGP version of the
British Grand Prix might be inclined to ask a serious of question of Mr
Ecclestone by employing the comic catchphrase used by Ricky Gervais in
his show, Extras: "You having a laugh?"

Has Ecclestone been to Donington Park recently? Blimey, even the MotoGP
boys don't want to be here, from what I have been told at length.
Silverstone is, admittedly, a little frayed around the edges and the
British Racing Drivers' Club, which runs the place, have proved about
as bright as a 20-watt bulb when it has come to negotiating with
sport's ace dealmaker over the years. But things have changed: Damon
Hill is now president and brings not only the energy and intelligence
of a younger man to the role, he actually knows what he is talking
about, having been the 1996 Formula One World Champion. Under his
aegis, plans for a massive refit to turn Silverstone into the
headquarters of British motor racing, not just Formula One, have
already been given the green light.

***

So, Ecclestone has a choice: stick with the historic home of the
British Grand Prix at Silverstone, where the first grand prix of the
modern era ran in 1950, or move it lock, stock and palatial motorhomes
to Donington. Ooh, that's a good idea. Now, let's see: yes, the only
way into Donington is on single-carriageway roads. Better still, the
A453 runs right past the front door of East Midlands Airport. So when
the grand prix turns up in its traditional July date, there won't be
any problem getting 100,000 spectators in while the tourists are
queueing up on the same piece of road to catch their Ryanair flight to
Malaga or wherever, will there?

Oh, and then there are the magnificent facilities, such as the Paddock
Cafe Bar, a sort of shed with chips. Or the perimeter gravel tracks
that lead to grass car parks in fields that slope alarmingly. Can't
wait for the downpour that turns that lot into a mudslide. Or the
miniscule pits complex, not too bad for slimline motorcycles, but for
grand prix teams with cars and 50 mechanics to a garage? But then, tens
of thousands of spectators will be able to sink back into their
sumptuous grandstand seats to watch Lewis Hamilton et al, happily
sheltered from the elements. At least, they could if there was anything
that looked like a sumptuous seat in anything like a grandstand.

***

Donington Ventures, who run the Donington circuit under the flightpath
of East Midlands Airport, are ready to spend and spend big, says
Ecclestone. Good, so this lot will be solved by 2010, by which time
Silverstone will have lost its grand prix contract and Donington will
be gagging to take over. Well, they must have a King's Ransom and a
time machine.

Even if work started right now, this minute, there is no way that
Donington would be ready to hold a race in 2010. And it would cost huge
money - start with £50 million and work up. For a start, planning
consents would have to be won for everything from building work on the
circuit to a huge, new roads system that would obviously be demanded by
Ecclestone. After all, he demanded the same of Silverstone and now
there is dual-carriageway all the way to the front gates, courtesy of a
funding from a Labour government that thought it had already helped lay
the foundations for the home of British motor racing.

***

The most likely outcome of these shenanigans is that Britain simply
loses its grand prix. Ecclestone just doesn't know how to deliver the
bad news - yet. He did admit to Ed Gorman, our motor racing
correspondent, that the chances of keeping Britain on the calendar were
only 50:50. Make that 90:10 against as Ecclestone is forced to take his
responsibilities as an employee of CVC Capital Partners seriously.

They own Formula One, Ecclestone runs it. They spent a fortune buying
F1 and they want their money back, plus profits. After all, that's what
they do for a living. And the big money comes from the flashy new races
in the Middle and Far East, where ambitious governments are happy to
underwrite the costs of new circuits and pay CVC fees so enormous - as
much as £30 million - that they would sink Silverstone overnight. Even
now, the £11 million basic fee Ecclestone is charging the BRDC for this
year's race means Silverstone will struggle to break even.

***

Ecclestone knows he will unleash a storm in Formula One if he pulls his
circus from Silverstone. Six of the ten Formula One teams are based
within an hour of the Northamptonshire track - Force India are right
across the road.

And somehow, I get the feeling that Ecclestone does not really want to
ditch a race and a circuit so close to his heart. For goodness sake, he
even raced at Silverstone as a Formula One tyro. But this is all about
tactics, so hold on for weeks now of "will it, won't it" stories as
Ecclestone, the FIA and Silverstone dig their trenches for the fight
ahead. Actually, come to think about it: don't bother driving up here
Bernie. Just get on with making a British Grand Prix at Silverstone the
centrepiece of the British sporting year, just as it deserves to be.

--
Paul-B

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Paul-B wrote:
> Stephen M Baines wrote:
>
>> Kim Andrews wrote:
>>> Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>> Mark Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Never will happen. Watkins Glen has a better chance of hosting
>>>>> the 2009 USGP.
>>>> Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose
>>>> money paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better? -
>>>> but I am checking the state of my camping equipment. The Glen
>>>> is just down the road from Rochester. . . .
>>>>
>>> The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
>>> businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of trustees...
>>> the flexibility to act is rather greater with the former than the
>>> latter.
>> Indeed, and I can't help but wonder if the fact they are American
>> businessmen, iirc, has a bigger bearing on this WRT a new American GP.
>
> Interesting article by Kevin Eason in the Times Online :
>
> http :// www .timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula 1/article4191214.ece

I'm sorry, but Kevin doesn't have a clue. Most of the planning consents
have been in place for years, as I understand it, for when they last bid
for a Grand Prix and for the motor bike GP improvements that were
planned. Putting up a new cafeteria, seemingly his biggest worry, is not
difficult. Far from it. New grandstands are erected at the circuit for
major races all the time. And the police are very well versed at getting
150 000 people in and out of the circuit; even the local tri-county
police forces have major exercises and planning for the events, being
absolutely determined not to repeat the problems of 4 or 5 years ago.
The local councils actually pay for a large chunk of this - they
recognise the value of the circuit to the local economy.

--
Stephen M Baines
http :// www .kitschcamppalace.org.uk
http :// www .alledal.nu

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Stephen M Baines wrote:

And the police are very
> well versed at getting 150 000 people in and out of the circuit; even
> the local tri-county police forces have major exercises and planning
> for the events, being absolutely determined not to repeat the
> problems of 4 or 5 years ago. The local councils actually pay for a
> large chunk of this - they recognise the value of the circuit to the
> local economy.

How does that explain the MotoGP this year, where it took over 4 hours
to get out of the car parks, and that on 'bikes? In fact some people
were, apparently, still trying to get out up to 8 hours after the end
of the race.

--
Paul-B

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Kim Andrews wrote:
> Mark Jackson wrote:

>> Still can't see how this makes sense - if Silverstone would lose money
>> paying the full FOM fee how would Donington do better?

> The crunch seems to be: Donington is owned and run by a bunch of
> businessmen, Silverstone is owned and run by a bunch of trustees... the
> flexibility to act is rather greater with the former than the latter.

That's an adequate explanation for why Bernie would much rather do deals
with Donington than Silverstone. It's not enough by itself to turn red
ink into black, and nothing I've heard about this lot's financial plan
seems likely to either.

Planning permissions look less than complete as well. No British GP in
2010 looks rather likely at this point.

--
Mark Jackson - http :// www .alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The law does not pretend to punish everything that is
dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.
- Clarence Darrow

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Mark Jackson wrote:

> That's an adequate explanation for why Bernie would much rather do deals
> with Donington than Silverstone.

Yup.

It's not enough by itself to turn red
> ink into black, and nothing I've heard about this lot's financial plan
> seems likely to either.

The little I've picked up (and I admit I haven't gone looking) seems to
be based around a fan-based debenture issue? I remain utterly
unconvinced by the potential of that, if it's right.

>
> Planning permissions look less than complete as well.

The CEO *claims* that while permissions could not be got in advance
because it would "show their hand", they have been in close consultation
with the local planning officials who know their plans and unofficially
approve - the implication being they expect full planning to fly
through. It *is* known that the council is very pro-Donington circuit
and very supportive, so I have a lot less difficulty believing in that.

No British GP in
> 2010 looks rather likely at this point.
>
Not so sure about that. They could easily lease back 2010 to Silverstone
for the right price. Seems the likeliest outcome to me, thus far.


--
Kimbo xx

Books, by Kimbo!
Used and collectible books at sensible prices.
Buy direct at www .booksbykimbo,com
Find me on Ebid http :// uk.ebid,net /stores/Books-by-Kimbo

Re: Bernie admits talks with Donington Park

Kim Andrews wrote:
> Mark Jackson wrote:

>> . . .nothing I've heard about this lot's financial plan
>> seems likely to either.
>
> The little I've picked up (and I admit I haven't gone looking) seems to
> be based around a fan-based debenture issue? I remain utterly
> unconvinced by the potential of that, if it's right.

>> Planning permissions look less than complete as well.
>
> The CEO *claims* that while permissions could not be got in advance
> because it would "show their hand", they have been in close consultation
> with the local planning officials who know their plans and unofficially
> approve - the implication being they expect full planning to fly
> through. It *is* known that the council is very pro-Donington circuit
> and very supportive, so I have a lot less difficulty believing in that.

Still plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong, and absolutely no
buffer available if the work is to be done by 2010 - unless the race is
held in, say, November.

> No British GP in
>> 2010 looks rather likely at this point.
>>
> Not so sure about that. They could easily lease back 2010 to Silverstone
> for the right price. Seems the likeliest outcome to me, thus far.

You may be right - although Bernie says they're never going back to
Silverstone after 2009 this can of course be discounted (the Magny-Cours
precedent). But if more reliable full-fee events are available in 2010,
and the 20-race cap holds, why would he stand up to CVC on behalf of the
British GP?

--
Mark Jackson - http :// www .alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
The law does not pretend to punish everything that is
dishonest. That would seriously interfere with business.
- Clarence Darrow