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For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
...............................................................................................................................
The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
...............................................................................................................................
The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
wrote:
> Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> ...............................................................................................................................
>
> The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
it no matter which driver pulled it off.
You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
talk about his receiving a warning for it.
-Steven
On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
wrote:
> Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> ...............................................................................................................................
>
> The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
it no matter which driver pulled it off.
You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
talk about his receiving a warning for it.
-Steven
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
> On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> > ...............................................................................................................................
>
> > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
> not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
> that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
> it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>
> You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
> race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
> shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
> he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
> enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
> we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
> tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
> not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
> or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
> everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
> talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>
> -Steven
Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
name).
According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
standards.
It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
> On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> > ...............................................................................................................................
>
> > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
> not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
> that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
> it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>
> You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
> race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
> shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
> he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
> enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
> we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
> tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
> not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
> or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
> everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
> talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>
> -Steven
Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
name).
According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
standards.
It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
On Jun 17, 1:09 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
wrote:
> On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
> > wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> > > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> > > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> > > ...............................................................................................................................
>
> > > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> > > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> > > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> > > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> > > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> > > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> > > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> > > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> > > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> > > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> > > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> > > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> > > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> > > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> > > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> > > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> > > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> > > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> > > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> > > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> > > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> > > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> > > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> > > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> > > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> > > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> > > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> > > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> > > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> > > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> > And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
> > not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
> > that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
> > it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>
> > You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
> > race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
> > shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
> > he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
> > enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
> > we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
> > tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
> > not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
> > or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
> > everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
> > talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>
> > -Steven
>
> Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
> name).
I know perfectly well who your favorite is. That's actually one of the
things we share, believe it or not. But we most certainly *don't*
share second-choice drivers :)
> According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
> cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
> standards.
No, they restate the rule several times, or at the very least it was
posted in the thread that was linked (by you? can't recall, don't want
to risk losing this post checking it) about JG doing it way back in
'97. "Drivers may not pass the pace car unless ordered to do so by
NASCAR." He passed the pace car and was not ordered to do so by
NASCAR. That's a rule infraction. What they have *said* is that he
didn't violate what they consider the *reason* for the rule, which is
supposed to be something along the lines of preventing drivers from
gaining favorable track position. The issue I take with this is that
they're not using the written text of the rule to adjudicate the
situation --- like Kansas last year, they're resorting to some
unwritten subtext of the rule as I and other fans/drivers understand
it. That's not how professional sports are supposed to be run, man.
> It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
Of course it is. The problem is, they don't want to enforce their
rules, so why even have them? Without consistently enforced rules,
it's not a game at all --- it's a 'show'.
> Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
Because two bad calls don't make one good one. Just because somebody
got away with it years ago doesn't mean others should get away with it
now.
-Steven
On Jun 17, 1:09 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
wrote:
> On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02 05champ <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com >
> > wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> > > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> > > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> > > ...............................................................................................................................
>
> > > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> > > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> > > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> > > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> > > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> > > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> > > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> > > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> > > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> > > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> > > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> > > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> > > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> > > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> > > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> > > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> > > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> > > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> > > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> > > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> > > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> > > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> > > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> > > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> > > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> > > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> > > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> > > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> > > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> > > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> > And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
> > not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
> > that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
> > it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>
> > You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
> > race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
> > shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
> > he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
> > enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
> > we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
> > tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
> > not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
> > or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
> > everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
> > talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>
> > -Steven
>
> Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
> name).
I know perfectly well who your favorite is. That's actually one of the
things we share, believe it or not. But we most certainly *don't*
share second-choice drivers :)
> According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
> cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
> standards.
No, they restate the rule several times, or at the very least it was
posted in the thread that was linked (by you? can't recall, don't want
to risk losing this post checking it) about JG doing it way back in
'97. "Drivers may not pass the pace car unless ordered to do so by
NASCAR." He passed the pace car and was not ordered to do so by
NASCAR. That's a rule infraction. What they have *said* is that he
didn't violate what they consider the *reason* for the rule, which is
supposed to be something along the lines of preventing drivers from
gaining favorable track position. The issue I take with this is that
they're not using the written text of the rule to adjudicate the
situation --- like Kansas last year, they're resorting to some
unwritten subtext of the rule as I and other fans/drivers understand
it. That's not how professional sports are supposed to be run, man.
> It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
Of course it is. The problem is, they don't want to enforce their
rules, so why even have them? Without consistently enforced rules,
it's not a game at all --- it's a 'show'.
> Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
Because two bad calls don't make one good one. Just because somebody
got away with it years ago doesn't mean others should get away with it
now.
-Steven
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:279f29a6-6a7e-4432-af6f-5afe0ac802c2@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
>> On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05ch...@yahoo,com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>> > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>> > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>> > ...............................................................................................................................
>>
>> > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>> > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>> > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>> > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>> > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>> > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>> > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>> > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>> > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>> > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>> > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>> > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>> > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>> > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>> > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>> > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>> > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>> > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>> > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>> > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>> > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>> > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>> > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>> > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>> > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>> > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>> > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>> > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>> > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>>
>> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>>
>> And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
>> not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
>> that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
>> it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>>
>> You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
>> race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
>> shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
>> he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
>> enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
>> we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
>> tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
>> not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
>> or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
>> everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
>> talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>>
>> -Steven
>
> Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
> name).
>
> According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
> cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
> standards.
>
> It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
>
> Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
Simple. Because according to the article, DJ did it once, and got in line.
Jr. did it several times, then was warned by Nascar NOT to do it again, and
then continued to do it. Had that been anyone other than the "golden" boys
of Nascar(Junior, Gordon, Johnson, etc...) they'd have been black flagged.
And, the thing is, Jr. DID in fact gain an advantage. Had he not been able
to shut the engine down and coast(the reason he was passing the pace car)
there's a very good chance he'd have run out of gas. It's not Nascar's job
to make sure the CC made the right call. This was a Nascar PR move, plain
and simple. Big PR for Jr to finally win... even though it was a gift.
>
"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:279f29a6-6a7e-4432-af6f-5afe0ac802c2@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
>> On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05ch...@yahoo,com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>> > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>> > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>> > ...............................................................................................................................
>>
>> > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>> > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>> > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>> > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>> > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>> > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>> > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>> > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>> > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>> > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>> > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>> > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>> > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>> > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>> > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>> > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>> > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>> > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>> > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>> > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>> > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>> > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>> > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>> > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>> > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>> > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>> > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>> > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>> > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>>
>> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>>
>> And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
>> not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
>> that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
>> it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>>
>> You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
>> race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
>> shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
>> he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
>> enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
>> we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
>> tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
>> not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
>> or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
>> everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
>> talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>>
>> -Steven
>
> Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
> name).
>
> According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
> cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
> standards.
>
> It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
>
> Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
Simple. Because according to the article, DJ did it once, and got in line.
Jr. did it several times, then was warned by Nascar NOT to do it again, and
then continued to do it. Had that been anyone other than the "golden" boys
of Nascar(Junior, Gordon, Johnson, etc...) they'd have been black flagged.
And, the thing is, Jr. DID in fact gain an advantage. Had he not been able
to shut the engine down and coast(the reason he was passing the pace car)
there's a very good chance he'd have run out of gas. It's not Nascar's job
to make sure the CC made the right call. This was a Nascar PR move, plain
and simple. Big PR for Jr to finally win... even though it was a gift.
>
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:08:45 -0400, "43fan" <sleap13@comcast,net >
wrote:
>
>"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>news:279f29a6-6a7e-4432-af6f-5afe0ac802c2@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups,com ...
>> On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
>>> On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05ch...@yahoo,com >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>>> > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>>> > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>>> > ...............................................................................................................................
>>>
>>> > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>>> > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>>> > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>>> > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>>> > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>>> > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>>> > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>>> > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>>> > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>>> > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>>> > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>>> > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>>> > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>>> > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>>> > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>>> > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>>> > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>>> > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>>> > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>>> > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>>> > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>>> > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>>> > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>>> > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>>> > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>>> > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>>> > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>>> > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>>> > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>>>
>>> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>>>
>>> And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
>>> not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
>>> that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
>>> it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>>>
>>> You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
>>> race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
>>> shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
>>> he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
>>> enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
>>> we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
>>> tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
>>> not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
>>> or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
>>> everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
>>> talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>>>
>>> -Steven
>>
>> Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
>> name).
>>
>> According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
>> cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
>> standards.
>>
>> It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
>>
>> Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
>
>Simple. Because according to the article, DJ did it once, and got in line.
>Jr. did it several times, then was warned by Nascar NOT to do it again, and
>then continued to do it.
False. He was told after "a couple of times" to get back into line,
and did. Watch the followup shows sometime, they offer decent amounts
of interviews with this sort of info in them. I personally got my info
from listening to Junior's scanner on HotPass. Once he was directed to
cease, he did. He DID NOT "continue to do it". The pace car driver was
laughing at the time (as he would've for any other driver out there I
imagine).
>And, the thing is, Jr. DID in fact gain an advantage. Had he not been able
>to shut the engine down and coast(the reason he was passing the pace car)
>there's a very good chance he'd have run out of gas. It's not Nascar's job
>to make sure the CC made the right call. This was a Nascar PR move, plain
>and simple. Big PR for Jr to finally win... even though it was a gift.
>
Wrong again. Everyone on the track could turn off and refire their
cars at will. That Junior was up front and had room to run beside the
pace car while doing it was the only difference.
In fact, if it weren't Junior that did it, this would've never come up
here this week I'd bet. So, rules interpretations from haters have
fallen to a new all time low here this week IMO.
And if Junior's win was a "gift" due to his "cheating" to allow him to
have the gas...I fully expect the next win for the 43 that involves
fuel mileage to be branded by YOU as a *gift* at that time as well.
And the next time the 43 peels off the race track and passes the pace
car before the pit-in line, I want you to call NASCAR and tell them
that Bobby was cheating and must be penalized as well.
>>
>
On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:08:45 -0400, "43fan" <sleap13@comcast,net >
wrote:
>
>"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>news:279f29a6-6a7e-4432-af6f-5afe0ac802c2@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups,com ...
>> On Jun 17, 12:49 am, Seven <seven...@chek,com > wrote:
>>> On Jun 17, 12:01 am, TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05ch...@yahoo,com >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>>> > and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>>> > turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>>> > ...............................................................................................................................
>>>
>>> > The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>>> > pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>>> > is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>>> > do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>>> > passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>>> > Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>>> > have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>>> > alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>>> > finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>>> > was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>>> > laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>>> > make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>>> > take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>>> > the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>>> > pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>>> > Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>>> > 2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>>> > the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>>> > car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>>> > Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>>> > the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>>> > advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>>> > getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>>> > up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>>> > neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>>> > the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>>> > track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>>> > ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>>> > gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>>>
>>> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>>>
>>> And from your link earlier, fans were upset about that as well. It's
>>> not some magical double-standard because it's Junior: it's a behavior
>>> that fans in general disapprove of. There would be fans pissed about
>>> it no matter which driver pulled it off.
>>>
>>> You're actually defending his win more than he did in his own post-
>>> race comments. Your driver already *knows* the ending looked a bit
>>> shady to those outside of his fanbase, but as he said, he got the win,
>>> he got the trophy. Take a page from his book here, and just relax and
>>> enjoy the trophy dude. Enjoy it, celebrate it, have fun this week and
>>> we'll see you at the normal time on Sunday. But man, quit trying to
>>> tell us that a rule infraction (and it was, regardless of whether or
>>> not NASCAR chose to call him on it Sunday, or Jarrett nine years ago,
>>> or frickin' Lee Petty back in the early 50's) didn't happen when
>>> everybody watching that race saw it happen and heard the announcers
>>> talk about his receiving a warning for it.
>>>
>>> -Steven
>>
>> Jr isn't "my driver", he is my second favorite driver (see screen
>> name).
>>
>> According to what is coming directly from the horses mouth (in both
>> cases), they don't consider it a "rule infraction" by *their*
>> standards.
>>
>> It's Nascar's game, so it's Nascar's rules.
>>
>> Why should Jr be penalized if DJ wasn't?
>
>Simple. Because according to the article, DJ did it once, and got in line.
>Jr. did it several times, then was warned by Nascar NOT to do it again, and
>then continued to do it.
False. He was told after "a couple of times" to get back into line,
and did. Watch the followup shows sometime, they offer decent amounts
of interviews with this sort of info in them. I personally got my info
from listening to Junior's scanner on HotPass. Once he was directed to
cease, he did. He DID NOT "continue to do it". The pace car driver was
laughing at the time (as he would've for any other driver out there I
imagine).
>And, the thing is, Jr. DID in fact gain an advantage. Had he not been able
>to shut the engine down and coast(the reason he was passing the pace car)
>there's a very good chance he'd have run out of gas. It's not Nascar's job
>to make sure the CC made the right call. This was a Nascar PR move, plain
>and simple. Big PR for Jr to finally win... even though it was a gift.
>
Wrong again. Everyone on the track could turn off and refire their
cars at will. That Junior was up front and had room to run beside the
pace car while doing it was the only difference.
In fact, if it weren't Junior that did it, this would've never come up
here this week I'd bet. So, rules interpretations from haters have
fallen to a new all time low here this week IMO.
And if Junior's win was a "gift" due to his "cheating" to allow him to
have the gas...I fully expect the next win for the 43 that involves
fuel mileage to be branded by YOU as a *gift* at that time as well.
And the next time the 43 peels off the race track and passes the pace
car before the pit-in line, I want you to call NASCAR and tell them
that Bobby was cheating and must be penalized as well.
>>
>
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
>>
>>Simple. Because according to the article, DJ did it once, and got in
>>line.
>>Jr. did it several times, then was warned by Nascar NOT to do it again,
>>and
>>then continued to do it.
>
> False. He was told after "a couple of times" to get back into line,
> and did. Watch the followup shows sometime, they offer decent amounts
> of interviews with this sort of info in them. I personally got my info
> from listening to Junior's scanner on HotPass. Once he was directed to
> cease, he did. He DID NOT "continue to do it". The pace car driver was
> laughing at the time (as he would've for any other driver out there I
> imagine).
>
Unfortunately I deleted the dvr already, but when watching it live(not
interviews), the announcers stated after he'd done it a couple times, that
he was warned not to do it again. I'm sure my memory could be wrong, but I
do remember him doing it several times after that then as well... and even
wondering then, well, are they gonna penalize him? I'm going by what I
actually saw on tv, not by what someone said in an interview, or what was
said on Jr's radio. As for the pace care driver laughing, how do you know
this? From Jr's scanner?
>
>>And, the thing is, Jr. DID in fact gain an advantage. Had he not been
>>able
>>to shut the engine down and coast(the reason he was passing the pace car)
>>there's a very good chance he'd have run out of gas. It's not Nascar's
>>job
>>to make sure the CC made the right call. This was a Nascar PR move, plain
>>and simple. Big PR for Jr to finally win... even though it was a gift.
>>
>
> Wrong again. Everyone on the track could turn off and refire their
> cars at will. That Junior was up front and had room to run beside the
> pace car while doing it was the only difference.
>
He gained a tactical advantage over those who had enough fuel to make it. I
have no problem with him winning a fuel mileage race... hell, I'm a Newman
fan, how could I fault anyone for winning fuel mileage races. I don't even
fault Jr. for doing what he did! I fault Nascar for not penalizing him after
he was warned.
> In fact, if it weren't Junior that did it, this would've never come up
> here this week I'd bet. So, rules interpretations from haters have
> fallen to a new all time low here this week IMO.
>
Bullshit Sim, not from me, and you know it. Had it been BL or KP? No, I
probably wouldn't have "brought it up" but I'd have sure as hell chimed in
if someone else did, and been on the side of it not being right that they
were warned, continued to do it, and weren't penalized.
> And if Junior's win was a "gift" due to his "cheating" to allow him to
> have the gas...I fully expect the next win for the 43 that involves
> fuel mileage to be branded by YOU as a *gift* at that time as well.
> And the next time the 43 peels off the race track and passes the pace
> car before the pit-in line, I want you to call NASCAR and tell them
> that Bobby was cheating and must be penalized as well.
>
Hey, as I said above(and in another post)... if BL wins that way? It's a
gift! Plain and simple. And to be truthful? I think BL would've gotten away
with it just as quickly as Jr. did, simply because a win for the 43 would be
very popular as well. If JJ Yeley did it? Nah, he'd be blackflagged. Or,
better yet... Robby Gordon? Definitely wouldn't win, and you know it as well
as I do.
As for the 43 passing the pace car before pit lane, he'd have to be first or
second in line for that to even have a chance of happening... and we both
know that doesn't happen too often right now. ;)
>>>
>>
>>
>>Simple. Because according to the article, DJ did it once, and got in
>>line.
>>Jr. did it several times, then was warned by Nascar NOT to do it again,
>>and
>>then continued to do it.
>
> False. He was told after "a couple of times" to get back into line,
> and did. Watch the followup shows sometime, they offer decent amounts
> of interviews with this sort of info in them. I personally got my info
> from listening to Junior's scanner on HotPass. Once he was directed to
> cease, he did. He DID NOT "continue to do it". The pace car driver was
> laughing at the time (as he would've for any other driver out there I
> imagine).
>
Unfortunately I deleted the dvr already, but when watching it live(not
interviews), the announcers stated after he'd done it a couple times, that
he was warned not to do it again. I'm sure my memory could be wrong, but I
do remember him doing it several times after that then as well... and even
wondering then, well, are they gonna penalize him? I'm going by what I
actually saw on tv, not by what someone said in an interview, or what was
said on Jr's radio. As for the pace care driver laughing, how do you know
this? From Jr's scanner?
>
>>And, the thing is, Jr. DID in fact gain an advantage. Had he not been
>>able
>>to shut the engine down and coast(the reason he was passing the pace car)
>>there's a very good chance he'd have run out of gas. It's not Nascar's
>>job
>>to make sure the CC made the right call. This was a Nascar PR move, plain
>>and simple. Big PR for Jr to finally win... even though it was a gift.
>>
>
> Wrong again. Everyone on the track could turn off and refire their
> cars at will. That Junior was up front and had room to run beside the
> pace car while doing it was the only difference.
>
He gained a tactical advantage over those who had enough fuel to make it. I
have no problem with him winning a fuel mileage race... hell, I'm a Newman
fan, how could I fault anyone for winning fuel mileage races. I don't even
fault Jr. for doing what he did! I fault Nascar for not penalizing him after
he was warned.
> In fact, if it weren't Junior that did it, this would've never come up
> here this week I'd bet. So, rules interpretations from haters have
> fallen to a new all time low here this week IMO.
>
Bullshit Sim, not from me, and you know it. Had it been BL or KP? No, I
probably wouldn't have "brought it up" but I'd have sure as hell chimed in
if someone else did, and been on the side of it not being right that they
were warned, continued to do it, and weren't penalized.
> And if Junior's win was a "gift" due to his "cheating" to allow him to
> have the gas...I fully expect the next win for the 43 that involves
> fuel mileage to be branded by YOU as a *gift* at that time as well.
> And the next time the 43 peels off the race track and passes the pace
> car before the pit-in line, I want you to call NASCAR and tell them
> that Bobby was cheating and must be penalized as well.
>
Hey, as I said above(and in another post)... if BL wins that way? It's a
gift! Plain and simple. And to be truthful? I think BL would've gotten away
with it just as quickly as Jr. did, simply because a win for the 43 would be
very popular as well. If JJ Yeley did it? Nah, he'd be blackflagged. Or,
better yet... Robby Gordon? Definitely wouldn't win, and you know it as well
as I do.
As for the 43 passing the pace car before pit lane, he'd have to be first or
second in line for that to even have a chance of happening... and we both
know that doesn't happen too often right now. ;)
>>>
>>
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
look it up; i complained about biffle then.
--
>>> _
>>> /'_/)
>>> ,/_ /
>>> / /
>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
>>> /'/ / / /" /_\
>>> ('( ' /' ')
>>> \ /
>>> '\' _.7'
>>> \ (
>>> \ \
"Kick him when he's down, he's easier to reach."
---Scott Hall
#1 ranked poster in RSPW history....
look it up; i complained about biffle then.
--
>>> _
>>> /'_/)
>>> ,/_ /
>>> / /
>>> /'_'/' '/'__'7,
>>> /'/ / / /" /_\
>>> ('( ' /' ')
>>> \ /
>>> '\' _.7'
>>> \ (
>>> \ \
"Kick him when he's down, he's easier to reach."
---Scott Hall
#1 ranked poster in RSPW history....
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT), TS02_05champ
<tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote:
>Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>...............................................................................................................................
>
>
>The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
Yeah, and how about Biffle almost running out of gas a while back and
dropping to the apron and barely finishing under caution...he
obviously "didn't maintain proper pace speed" as positions 2-3
actually passed him before he got to the S/F line...they didn't take
THAT win away either, did they?
Haters...they have the most selective memories out there.
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT), TS02_05champ
<tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote:
>Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>...............................................................................................................................
>
>
>The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
Yeah, and how about Biffle almost running out of gas a while back and
dropping to the apron and barely finishing under caution...he
obviously "didn't maintain proper pace speed" as positions 2-3
actually passed him before he got to the S/F line...they didn't take
THAT win away either, did they?
Haters...they have the most selective memories out there.
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
"SimRacer" <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote in message
news:2b3g54l4bf9ggv8j3m7bn6futb9tf43iid@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT), TS02_05champ
> <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
>>Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>>and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>>turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>>...............................................................................................................................
>>
>>
>>The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>>pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>>is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>>do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>>passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>>Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>>have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>>alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>>finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>>was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>>laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>>make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>>take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>>the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>>pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>>Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>>2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>>the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>>car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>>Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>>the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>>advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>>getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>>up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>>neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>>the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>>track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>>ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>>gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>>
>> http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> Yeah, and how about Biffle almost running out of gas a while back and
> dropping to the apron and barely finishing under caution...he
> obviously "didn't maintain proper pace speed" as positions 2-3
> actually passed him before he got to the S/F line...they didn't take
> THAT win away either, did they?
>
> Haters...they have the most selective memories out there.
Sim... you know as well as I do that no matter who it'd have been, including
Kyle Petty or Bobby Labonte, I'd have said it wasn't right that they allowed
them to continue doing it, after the warning, with no penalty. Now, in the
case of it being KP or BL? I'd have stated that but then also stated that I
was happy that they did it! *laffin* But it still wouldn't have been right,
same as it wasn't right for them to ignore the fact that Jr. did it after
being warned.
"SimRacer" <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote in message
news:2b3g54l4bf9ggv8j3m7bn6futb9tf43iid@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT), TS02_05champ
> <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
>>Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
>>and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
>>turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
>>...............................................................................................................................
>>
>>
>>The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
>>pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
>>is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
>>do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
>>passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
>>Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
>>have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
>>alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
>>finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
>>was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
>>laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
>>make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
>>take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
>>the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
>>pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
>>Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
>>2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
>>the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
>>car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
>>Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
>>the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
>>advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
>>getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
>>up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
>>neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
>>the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
>>track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
>>ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
>>gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>>
>> http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> Yeah, and how about Biffle almost running out of gas a while back and
> dropping to the apron and barely finishing under caution...he
> obviously "didn't maintain proper pace speed" as positions 2-3
> actually passed him before he got to the S/F line...they didn't take
> THAT win away either, did they?
>
> Haters...they have the most selective memories out there.
Sim... you know as well as I do that no matter who it'd have been, including
Kyle Petty or Bobby Labonte, I'd have said it wasn't right that they allowed
them to continue doing it, after the warning, with no penalty. Now, in the
case of it being KP or BL? I'd have stated that but then also stated that I
was happy that they did it! *laffin* But it still wouldn't have been right,
same as it wasn't right for them to ignore the fact that Jr. did it after
being warned.
Re: For All Of The "Passing The Pace Car" Whiners
On Jun 17, 3:17 pm, SimRacer <NOsimrace...@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT), TS02 05champ
>
>
>
> <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> >Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> >and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> >turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> >...............................................................................................................................
>
> >The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> >pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> >is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> >do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> >passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> >Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> >have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> >alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> >finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> >was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> >laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> >make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> >take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> >the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> >pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> >Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> >2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> >the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> >car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> >Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> >the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> >advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> >getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> >up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> >neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> >the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> >track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> >ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> >gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> Yeah, and how about Biffle almost running out of gas a while back and
> dropping to the apron and barely finishing under caution...he
> obviously "didn't maintain proper pace speed" as positions 2-3
> actually passed him before he got to the S/F line...they didn't take
> THAT win away either, did they?
Of course they didn't, but I seem to recall that race stirring up a
nasty little shitstorm in this very group. Remember this?
http :// tinyurl,com /6j4wc3
Or this?
http :// tinyurl,com /5p3pa8
Man, that sure was a popular outcome. You're certainly correct that
they didn't take the win away, and they definitely won't be taking
this one away either. That's not NASCAR's policy, and everybody knows
it. The closest they could *possibly* come to taking away the win
would be to remove the Chase bonus points for it, but I'd sooner bet
that I can poke my eye out and grow a new one that lay money on NASCAR
admitting that their action/inaction altered the outcome of the race
and removing Chase points because of it.
> Haters...they have the most selective memories out there.
Not sure who you're talking to/about here. I don't recall anybody
saying that NASCAR pulled that win. How is this being 'selective',
Sim?
-Steven
On Jun 17, 3:17 pm, SimRacer <NOsimrace...@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:01:24 -0700 (PDT), TS02 05champ
>
>
>
> <tonystewart02 05ch...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> >Yeah, Jr is the *only one* that has ever done it. I was at this race
> >and DJ pulled ahead of the pace car by at least 3 cars lengths in
> >turns 1 and 2 on the last lap. (1999 Pepsi 400 - Daytona)
> >...............................................................................................................................
>
> >The Pass UPDATE 2: Getting much email about Dale Jarrett's pass of the
> >pace car during the caution, saw it didn't think much about it. Here
> >is a rule: "Cars may not pass the caution car/truck unless directed to
> >do so by an Official in the caution car/truck. Any cars illegally
> >passing the caution car/truck or race leader will be black-flagged".
> >Not looking to speculate on this, if NASCAR saw a problem they would
> >have given a warning, the way I look at it is he never completed the
> >alleged pass and Jarrett was in the proper position at the start/
> >finish line each time(7-4-1999) -- UPDATE: DJ explains 'the pass': Why
> >was Dale Jarrett riding around on the track apron as the final two
> >laps of Saturday's Pepsi 400 were run under caution? He was trying to
> >make sure he had enough gas to make it around the 2.5-mile track to
> >take the checkered flag. By riding on the bottom of the track, he kept
> >the fuel cell level to allow as much gas as possible into the fuel
> >pickup, which is on the right side. As Jarrett drove on the apron, his
> >Ford actually got ahead of the pace car as the field came off of Turn
> >2. Jarrett says he lost sight of the pace car(see That's Racin' for
> >the story) as far as NASCAR is concerned, a pass isn't a pass until a
> >car crosses the start/finish line -- FINAL UPDATE: From NOL: NASCAR
> >Director of Operations Kevin Triplett said the rule regarding passing
> >the pace car is designed to prevent competitors from gaining an
> >advantage, primarily by passing the pace car while pitting, thereby
> >getting to their pit sooner; or passing the pace car in order to pick
> >up a full lap on the competition. According to Triplett, Jarrett did
> >neither. "Jarrett, in an obvious effort to conserve fuel, (dived) to
> >the apron," Triplett said. "With the pace car remaining on the race
> >track, Jarrett took the shorter distance, thus temporarily moving
> >ahead of the pace car. He slowed down, moved back into place and
> >gained no advantage. It turned out to be a non-issue."(NOL)(7-5-1999)
>
> > http :// www .jayski,com /teams/nastuff1999.htm
>
> Yeah, and how about Biffle almost running out of gas a while back and
> dropping to the apron and barely finishing under caution...he
> obviously "didn't maintain proper pace speed" as positions 2-3
> actually passed him before he got to the S/F line...they didn't take
> THAT win away either, did they?
Of course they didn't, but I seem to recall that race stirring up a
nasty little shitstorm in this very group. Remember this?
http :// tinyurl,com /6j4wc3
Or this?
http :// tinyurl,com /5p3pa8
Man, that sure was a popular outcome. You're certainly correct that
they didn't take the win away, and they definitely won't be taking
this one away either. That's not NASCAR's policy, and everybody knows
it. The closest they could *possibly* come to taking away the win
would be to remove the Chase bonus points for it, but I'd sooner bet
that I can poke my eye out and grow a new one that lay money on NASCAR
admitting that their action/inaction altered the outcome of the race
and removing Chase points because of it.
> Haters...they have the most selective memories out there.
Not sure who you're talking to/about here. I don't recall anybody
saying that NASCAR pulled that win. How is this being 'selective',
Sim?
-Steven
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