Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
> fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....


I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
than any oval course. Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
anyway? I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
in position at the end to have a top spot. It must have something to
do with caution expectations.

N.

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote:

>On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>> This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
>> fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....
>
>
>I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
>than any oval course. Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
>anyway? I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
>in position at the end to have a top spot. It must have something to
>do with caution expectations.
>
>N.

Yes, because the absolute best time to pit is immediately prior to the
caution coming out. So long as you don't lose a lap, you've already
pitted and will pick up a spot during the caution for EACH car in the
line in front of you that does elect to pit.

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote:

>>I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
>>than any oval course. Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
>>anyway? I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
>>in position at the end to have a top spot. It must have something to
>>do with caution expectations.

It's because the time to complete a lap at the road courses is much
longer than the time to complete a pit stop, including the slowing
down and speeding up again. Thus you can pit without loosing a
lap, even if you're well back in the field (the only non-road course
track you can do that at is Pocono, and only if you're within maybe
5 seconds of the leader).

If you can pit under green and come out without loosing a lap, and
then the caution comes out, you'll pass the leaders when they pit,
and thus be in the lead. The sooner you can pit before the other
guys, the better chance you have of the caution coming out before
they pit. So, you work backwards to try and pit as early as you
can.

Note that if they didn't bunch the field behind the pace car before
opening the pits, this wouldn't work. That's why you never heard
of "race strategy" back in the good old days at Riverside.

On ovals, the strategy for when you want to pit is mostly based on
tire wear, so there's really no benefit to thinking backwards from
the finish, other than perhaps "if we pit with less than 15 to go
we only take 2, otherwise 4".

John

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

"SimRacer" <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote in message
news:f31064p9qqqvab53i16rmkco3t8eh0tild@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>>> This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
>>> fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....
>>
>>
>>I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
>>than any oval course. Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
>>anyway? I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
>>in position at the end to have a top spot. It must have something to
>>do with caution expectations.
>>
>>N.
>
> Yes, because the absolute best time to pit is immediately prior to the
> caution coming out. So long as you don't lose a lap, you've already
> pitted and will pick up a spot during the caution for EACH car in the
> line in front of you that does elect to pit.

Yeppers...and some of these dang crew chiefs just don't seem to be smart
enuff to know ahead of time when the yellows are gonna happen.

--
Tom in Bristol...embedded audio for 13 or so drivers is a *good* thing!




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Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:34:41 -0400, "Tom Duwe"
<tomd88SPAMLESS@bvunet,net > wrote:

>"SimRacer" <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote in message
>news:f31064p9qqqvab53i16rmkco3t8eh0tild@4ax,com ...
>> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:46:06 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
>> <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>>>> This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
>>>> fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....
>>>
>>>
>>>I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
>>>than any oval course. Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
>>>anyway? I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
>>>in position at the end to have a top spot. It must have something to
>>>do with caution expectations.
>>>
>>>N.
>>
>> Yes, because the absolute best time to pit is immediately prior to the
>> caution coming out. So long as you don't lose a lap, you've already
>> pitted and will pick up a spot during the caution for EACH car in the
>> line in front of you that does elect to pit.
>
>Yeppers...and some of these dang crew chiefs just don't seem to be smart
>enuff to know ahead of time when the yellows are gonna happen.

True, true. And don't laugh, but I swear I heard someone (#29's pit
crew?) talking about "studying" the past occurrance of cautions at the
road courses (in terms of cautions per "segment" of the race, studied
down to the actual lap numbers they occurred on), and blend that data
into their "counting backwards" from the last pit stop, and try to
actually pit at times that "historically" have been at or just prior
to a caution period. Freaky.

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

SimRacer <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote in
news:22c264hi8mkaprnukbsdcc9i5heqd0qkke@4ax,com :

> True, true. And don't laugh, but I swear I heard someone (#29's pit
> crew?) talking about "studying" the past occurrance of cautions at the
> road courses (in terms of cautions per "segment" of the race, studied
> down to the actual lap numbers they occurred on), and blend that data
> into their "counting backwards" from the last pit stop, and try to
> actually pit at times that "historically" have been at or just prior
> to a caution period. Freaky.

I don't doubt that someone did it, but it seems a remarkable silly
exercise to me. You pit as early as you can based on fuel mileage,
it's as simple as that. That gives you the greatest number of laps
during which a caution might potentially come out. If you pit any
earlier, you'd just have to pit again, so obviously you don't do that.

The only way I could see this being useful would be if you wanted to
chance pitting a lap before your fuel window, counting on caution
laps to make up the difference in fuel consumption, and wanted an
idea on the odds of getting enough caution laps.

John

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery


"Nancy2" <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:0049c59e-437d-4064-800d-1936d4961f2b@79g2000hsk.googlegroups,com ...
On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
> fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....


I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
than any oval course.

Huge difference because pitting usually doesn't put you a lap down. If you
pit early, but within your window, a caution immediately puts you ahead of
cars yet to pit (unlike mile or less ovals .... and even the super speedways
are marginal - because pitting early followed shortly thereafter by a
caution, puts you a lap down). There is a very significant difference,
strategically - but you must be within your pit window to make the call.

Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
anyway? I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
in position at the end to have a top spot. It must have something to
do with caution expectations.

See above. Untimely cautions work in a completely different manner than they
do on ovals.



N.

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

On Jun 24, 12:16 am, "Rod's SHAW" <rod.g...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> "Nancy2" <nancy-doo...@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
>
> news:0049c59e-437d-4064-800d-1936d4961f2b@79g2000hsk.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
> > This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
> > fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....
>
> I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
> than any oval course.
>
> Huge difference because pitting usually doesn't put you a lap down. If you
> pit early, but within your window, a caution immediately puts you ahead of
> cars yet to pit (unlike mile or less ovals .... and even the super speedways
> are marginal - because pitting early followed shortly thereafter by a
> caution, puts you a lap down). There is a very significant difference,
> strategically - but you must be within your pit window to make the call.
>
>   Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
> anyway?  I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
> in position at the end to have a top spot.  It must have something to
> do with caution expectations.
>
> See above. Untimely cautions work in a completely different manner than they
> do on ovals.
>
> N.

Thanks to all who explained this. Of course, CCs can't know when the
cautions will come out. OTOH, I think I would count backwards and pit
accordingly without counting on any cautions. I guess that would come
up to bite me, though, fairly frequently....

N.

Re: Drunk NASCAR fans and road course pit strategery

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:58:36 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
<nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote:

>On Jun 24, 12:16 am, "Rod's SHAW" <rod.g...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> "Nancy2" <nancy-doo...@uiowa.edu> wrote in message
>>
>> news:0049c59e-437d-4064-800d-1936d4961f2b@79g2000hsk.googlegroups,com ...
>> On Jun 22, 2:56 pm, The Czar <joedopebuc...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>>
>> > This week we get to hear the crack team of announcers try and explain
>> > fuel-pit strategy to drunk NASCAR fans across the fruited plains....
>>
>> I've never understood why the road courses are different in strategy
>> than any oval course.
>>
>> Huge difference because pitting usually doesn't put you a lap down. If you
>> pit early, but within your window, a caution immediately puts you ahead of
>> cars yet to pit (unlike mile or less ovals .... and even the super speedways
>> are marginal - because pitting early followed shortly thereafter by a
>> caution, puts you a lap down). There is a very significant difference,
>> strategically - but you must be within your pit window to make the call.
>>
>>   Wouldn't most crew chiefs count backwards
>> anyway?  I always thought they would or should, so the driver could be
>> in position at the end to have a top spot.  It must have something to
>> do with caution expectations.
>>
>> See above. Untimely cautions work in a completely different manner than they
>> do on ovals.
>>
>> N.
>
>Thanks to all who explained this. Of course, CCs can't know when the
>cautions will come out. OTOH, I think I would count backwards and pit
>accordingly without counting on any cautions. I guess that would come
>up to bite me, though, fairly frequently....
>
>N.

No, your reasoning is sound Nancy. Counting backwards and being one of
the first to pit "for the last time" is a good idea. The issue at road
courses, more so than even at ovals IMO, is track position. The whole
"pit before a caution" thing is directly related to trying to gain
superior track position in addition to the pit schedule you have
planned.

Of course you and everyone else have spotted the one weakness of
actually and purposely trying to pit just before a caution, and that
is the lack of genuine clairvoyance in the NASCAR garage.