Road course ringers, my ass...

Road course ringers, my ass...

With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going to
wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road racing
specialists?
These drivers may be good road course racers, but they don't drive in the
COT or Sprint Cup enough to be competitive at it, & more importantly, don't
have the respect amongst Na$car regulars to drive aggressively against a
regular and get away with it.
I've never liked the practice of replacing Cup regulars, or fielding one-off
teams just to garner a few owner points in the first place. If a driver
cannot drive at ALL of the tracks competitively, perhaps the owner should
either spend more time training the driver to race road courses, or just
pursue another *more qualified* wheel man.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:37:57 GMT, "Mike/Speeed"
<speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote:

>With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going to
>wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road racing
>specialists?
>These drivers may be good road course racers, but they don't drive in the
>COT or Sprint Cup enough to be competitive at it, & more importantly, don't
>have the respect amongst Na$car regulars to drive aggressively against a
>regular and get away with it.
>I've never liked the practice of replacing Cup regulars, or fielding one-off
>teams just to garner a few owner points in the first place. If a driver
>cannot drive at ALL of the tracks competitively, perhaps the owner should
>either spend more time training the driver to race road courses, or just
>pursue another *more qualified* wheel man.

I agree, and Nascar drivers should not be driving in the American
Lemans and Rolex series races. They have no idea what they are doing.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"M. Rockinfeller" <therock@uponthewheel,com .invalid> wrote in message
news:68t16492ht40uim8amkdckscfmo9p6ehfv@4ax,com ...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:37:57 GMT, "Mike/Speeed"
> <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote:
>
> >With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going
to
> >wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road
racing
> >specialists?
> >These drivers may be good road course racers, but they don't drive in the
> >COT or Sprint Cup enough to be competitive at it, & more importantly,
don't
> >have the respect amongst Na$car regulars to drive aggressively against a
> >regular and get away with it.
> >I've never liked the practice of replacing Cup regulars, or fielding
one-off
> >teams just to garner a few owner points in the first place. If a driver
> >cannot drive at ALL of the tracks competitively, perhaps the owner should
> >either spend more time training the driver to race road courses, or just
> >pursue another *more qualified* wheel man.
>
> I agree, and Nascar drivers should not be driving in the American
> Lemans and Rolex series races. They have no idea what they are doing.
>

If the Na$car drivers are as competitive in those series as the "ringers"
are in Cup, I would have to agree with you, although, that doesn't appear to
be the case.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

"M. Rockinfeller" <therock@uponthewheel,com .invalid> wrote ...
> "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote:
>>With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going to
>>wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road racing
>>specialists?

Valid enough point. At times the 'change' has worked
out well for all, but mostly it does not.

>>These drivers may be good road course racers, ---
>>I've never liked the practice of replacing Cup regulars, or fielding
>>one-off
>>teams just to garner a few owner points in the first place. If a driver
>>cannot drive at ALL of the tracks competitively, perhaps the owner should
>>either spend more time training the driver to race road courses, --

> I agree, and Nascar drivers should not be driving in the American
> Lemans and Rolex series races. They have no idea what they are doing.

I disagree with that.

I think it is good for the fans, the sponsors, and motorsport
as a whole, to have some exchange of drivers.
I think we all gained from -
Mario Andretti from USAC (similar to IRL now), trying and
doing well at F-1, NASCAR, and LeMans.
Dan Gurney (with himself and his car - Eagle) from Le Mans
and F1, trying and doing well at Indy and NASCAR.
Both Jim Clark and Graham Hill from F1, to the
sports car races, and to wining at Indy.
J. Villeneue from Indycar to F1, then trying NASCAR.
Ernhart Jr. from NASCAR to sports car endurance races.
Stewart from NASCAR to IRL.

Introduces new fans to different series.
Reduces some of the mindset of "my way is only way".
It can all be good, enjoy it all.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 24, 8:37 am, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV...@verizon,net >
wrote:
>[snipped a bunch of stuff]
> If a driver
> cannot drive at ALL of the tracks competitively, perhaps the owner should
> either spend more time training the driver to race road courses, or just
> pursue another *more qualified* wheel man.

Couldn't agree more, but no matter how much I talk to Evernham about
Sadler, he just won't hand the chump his walking papers.

-Steven

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

In article <FU58k.8$Eg.6@trnddc01>, speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net says...
>
>With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going to
>wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road racing
>specialists?

From my earlier post on this topic:

Well, let's see how the so called 'ringers' did at Sonoma yesterday:

Ambrose = started 7th, finished 42nd, lost 35 spots
Said = started 14th, finished 41st, lost 27 spots
Fellows = started 22, finished 29th, lost 7 spots
Pruett = started 27th, finished 38th, lost 11 spots
Papis = started 28th, finished 35th, lost 7 spots
Simo = srarted 43rd, finished 43rd, even

Another fine group performance - an average loss of only 14.5 positions.

At least they are consistent, year in and year out, at finishing poorly.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 24, 12:10 pm, electric...@xo,com (Electrician) wrote:
> In article <FU58k.8$Eg.6@trnddc01>, speeedracerREMOV...@verizon,net says...
>
>
>
> >With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going to
> >wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road racing
> >specialists?
>
> From my earlier post on this topic:
>
> Well, let's see how the so called 'ringers' did at Sonoma yesterday:
>
> Ambrose = started 7th, finished 42nd, lost 35 spots
> Said = started 14th, finished 41st, lost 27 spots
> Fellows = started 22, finished 29th, lost 7 spots
> Pruett = started 27th, finished 38th, lost 11 spots
> Papis = started 28th, finished 35th, lost 7 spots
> Simo = srarted 43rd, finished 43rd, even
>
> Another fine group performance - an average loss of only 14.5 positions.
>
> At least they are consistent, year in and year out, at finishing poorly.

I'll save everybody the effort of reading my full response to this a
second time, and simply do a quick recap.

Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.
Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.
Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
great before, but this sealed it.
Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.

So four of those six ringers (one of whom isn't a ringer at all, as we
discussed earlier) were taken out by the impatience or incompetence of
Cup regulars. Ambrose and Fellows in particular actually ran *very*
well during the event, but ended up finishing poorly due to the
aforementioned incidents.

-Steven

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

"Seven" <sevensks@chek,com > wrote in message
news:d0f869ba-acc9-49f5-867a-fcb5a5d16898@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 24, 12:10 pm, electric...@xo,com (Electrician) wrote:
>> In article <FU58k.8$Eg.6@trnddc01>, speeedracerREMOV...@verizon,net
>> says...
>>
>>
>>
>> >With finishes of 29th or worse last Sunday, when are these owners going
>> >to
>> >wake up and stop wasting their time & money on these so-called road
>> >racing
>> >specialists?
>>
>> From my earlier post on this topic:
>>
>> Well, let's see how the so called 'ringers' did at Sonoma yesterday:
>>
>> Ambrose = started 7th, finished 42nd, lost 35 spots
>> Said = started 14th, finished 41st, lost 27 spots
>> Fellows = started 22, finished 29th, lost 7 spots
>> Pruett = started 27th, finished 38th, lost 11 spots
>> Papis = started 28th, finished 35th, lost 7 spots
>> Simo = srarted 43rd, finished 43rd, even
>>
>> Another fine group performance - an average loss of only 14.5 positions.
>>
>> At least they are consistent, year in and year out, at finishing poorly.
>
> I'll save everybody the effort of reading my full response to this a
> second time, and simply do a quick recap.
>
> Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
> transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.
> Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
> Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
> Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
> improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.
> Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
> great before, but this sealed it.
> Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.
>
> So four of those six ringers (one of whom isn't a ringer at all, as we
> discussed earlier) were taken out by the impatience or incompetence of
> Cup regulars. Ambrose and Fellows in particular actually ran *very*
> well during the event, but ended up finishing poorly due to the
> aforementioned incidents.
>
> -Steven

Thanks for saving me the trouble of pointing that out. The earlier comment
about the ringers not getting enough respect to race aggressively was a
little twisted. If the friggin' Cup regulars would treat them with the
respect they deserve and not dump them (as seems to happen to Fellows every
time), their finishing stats would be better.
The O.P. should also consider the quality of car & effort being put up by
the teams the ringers drive for. If the ringers drove for Roush, Gibbs,
hendrick et al, the results would likely be significantly different. Maybe
we need a non-points IROC type of road race event pitting the top 10 Cup
drivers against the top 10 ringers in "identically-prepared" cars!!!!

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Duncan Craig" wrote:

The O.P. should also consider the quality of car & effort being put up by
> the teams the ringers drive for. If the ringers drove for Roush, Gibbs,
> hendrick et al, the results would likely be significantly different.


Fortunately for Roush, Gibbs, & Hendrick, they HAVE drivers with enough
talent to do well at the road courses, so they have no need to venture into
other racing series to get "road course.....ringers". LOL
Thank you for again making my point.

I recall a time before Jimmie Johnson drove for Hendrick, he was racing at
Watkin's Glen I believe, and he was so out of control, he took his car
airborne, & stuck it into a pile of Styrofoam. The incident looked so
violent, one would have thought he'd have been killed. He jumped up out of
the car, stood on the roof, & pumped his fists in the air to the crowd's
cheers. From that auspicious beginning at a road course, he has worked on
his road course skills, & has become a decent driver at those types of
tracks.

Oh, and as far as the disparity in the quality of the set-ups in cars from
Roush, Gibbs, & HMS, the driver primarily sets up the car for the road
courses, so your point on that is moot at best.



Maybe
> we need a non-points IROC type of road race event pitting the top 10 Cup
> drivers against the top 10 ringers in "identically-prepared" cars!!!!


WHY?, The COTs are practically spec cars anyway.
AND, if the ringers were talented enough to drive in Cup full time, THEY
WOULD.
Why would they waste that incredible talent they have driving in a series
paying a 25th of the money they'd make in Cup?

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote in message
news:JWb8k.14$td.8@trnddc04...
>
>
> I recall a time before Jimmie Johnson drove for Hendrick, he was racing at
> Watkin's Glen I believe, and he was so out of control, he took his car
> airborne, & stuck it into a pile of Styrofoam.

While I have never touted JJ's driving prowess, that crash was clearly due
to a mechanical failure. Watch this clip, and you'll see his car suddenly
swerve for no reason. http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=R7vu6FVAwQM

>The incident looked so
> violent, one would have thought he'd have been killed. He jumped up out of
> the car, stood on the roof, & pumped his fists in the air to the crowd's
> cheers. From that auspicious beginning at a road course, he has worked on
> his road course skills, & has become a decent driver at those types of
> tracks.
>

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:ncKdnW42ip9ZzvzVnZ2dnUVZ v inZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote in message
> news:JWb8k.14$td.8@trnddc04...
>>
>>
>> I recall a time before Jimmie Johnson drove for Hendrick, he was racing
>> at
>> Watkin's Glen I believe, and he was so out of control, he took his car
>> airborne, & stuck it into a pile of Styrofoam.
>
> While I have never touted JJ's driving prowess, that crash was clearly due
> to a mechanical failure. Watch this clip, and you'll see his car suddenly
> swerve for no reason. http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=R7vu6FVAwQM



Yeah, you're right. I guess my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be. Oh,
well... It doesn't really change my point, tho. Johnson has steadily become
a beter & better road course racer over his career.
I'm sure Cru could find the stats to back my contention


>

>>
>
>

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...



"Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote in message
news:dvqdnefcc9x7PvzVnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> "armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:ncKdnW42ip9ZzvzVnZ2dnUVZ_v_inZ2d@giganews,com ...
> >
> > "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote in message
> > news:JWb8k.14$td.8@trnddc04...
> >>
> >>
> >> I recall a time before Jimmie Johnson drove for Hendrick, he was racing
> >> at
> >> Watkin's Glen I believe, and he was so out of control, he took his car
> >> airborne, & stuck it into a pile of Styrofoam.
> >
> > While I have never touted JJ's driving prowess, that crash was clearly
due
> > to a mechanical failure. Watch this clip, and you'll see his car
suddenly
> > swerve for no reason. http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=R7vu6FVAwQM
>
>
>
> Yeah, you're right. I guess my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be. Oh,
> well... It doesn't really change my point, tho. Johnson has steadily
become
> a beter & better road course racer over his career.
> I'm sure Cru could find the stats to back my contention
>
>

Well, he's become a better road course qualifier over the years, but his
finishes have been inconsistent. He has only one top-5 at Sonoma, in 2004.
He has done better at the Glen, accumulating 3 top 5's in 6 starts.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

No need to show CruStats on JJ cuz he's simply the best driver
year after year since 2002. I'll never forget his Busch crash
at WG, JJ was elated to be alive after that hit!
--
Crusader

"Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote in message
news:dvqdnefcc9x7PvzVnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> "armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:ncKdnW42ip9ZzvzVnZ2dnUVZ_v_inZ2d@giganews,com ...
>>
>> "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote in message
>> news:JWb8k.14$td.8@trnddc04...
>>>
>>>
>>> I recall a time before Jimmie Johnson drove for Hendrick, he was racing at
>>> Watkin's Glen I believe, and he was so out of control, he took his car
>>> airborne, & stuck it into a pile of Styrofoam.
>>
>> While I have never touted JJ's driving prowess, that crash was clearly due to a
>> mechanical failure. Watch this clip, and you'll see his car suddenly swerve for no
>> reason. http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=R7vu6FVAwQM
>
>
>
> Yeah, you're right. I guess my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be. Oh, well... It
> doesn't really change my point, tho. Johnson has steadily become a beter & better road
> course racer over his career.
> I'm sure Cru could find the stats to back my contention
>
>
>>
>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Crusader" <cru357@sbcglobal,net > wrote in message
news:6cfjfiF3gtdgmU1@mid.individual,net ...
> No need to show CruStats on JJ cuz he's simply the best driver
> year after year since 2002. I'll never forget his Busch crash
> at WG, JJ was elated to be alive after that hit!
> --
> Crusader
>

Team success does not necessarily equate to superior driving talent.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:fJmdnUULm-on2_nVnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> "Crusader" <cru357@sbcglobal,net > wrote in message
> news:6cfjfiF3gtdgmU1@mid.individual,net ...
>> No need to show CruStats on JJ cuz he's simply the best driver
>> year after year since 2002. I'll never forget his Busch crash
>> at WG, JJ was elated to be alive after that hit!
>> --
>> Crusader
>>
>
> Team success does not necessarily equate to superior driving talent.
>
>
Best i can do is 'vice-versa' Casey Mears!
Car/Owner/Crew & Driver--I cain't decide. Have u?
CRU