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Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
gasoline powered car.
And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
because the price of corn based food is so high.
A loser all around!!!!
Geo.
Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
gasoline powered car.
And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
because the price of corn based food is so high.
A loser all around!!!!
Geo.
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
On Jun 28, 1:02 pm, George Mooth <gmooth...@comcast,net > wrote:
> Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
> making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
> It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
> No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
> subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
> something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>
> Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
> race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
> gasoline powered car.
>
> And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
> because the price of corn based food is so high.
>
> A loser all around!!!!
>
> Geo.
haha ya im not sure of the exact figure either, but it's definately
less efficient than gasoline, which is why it has to be blended with
gasoline for it to be even remotely useable, because the corn doesn't
produce the same power oil does. my mother is one of these enviro-
hippy types, and i kept telling her she is actually putting out MORE
C02 using ethanol, because it is less efficient, the only thing
"green" about it, is it comes from a vegetable. i found some figures
somewhere on this interweb, and she now doesn't use it, it's less
enviro-friendly, and costs you more at the pumps because you have to
visit more frequently
On Jun 28, 1:02 pm, George Mooth <gmooth...@comcast,net > wrote:
> Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
> making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
> It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
> No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
> subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
> something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>
> Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
> race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
> gasoline powered car.
>
> And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
> because the price of corn based food is so high.
>
> A loser all around!!!!
>
> Geo.
haha ya im not sure of the exact figure either, but it's definately
less efficient than gasoline, which is why it has to be blended with
gasoline for it to be even remotely useable, because the corn doesn't
produce the same power oil does. my mother is one of these enviro-
hippy types, and i kept telling her she is actually putting out MORE
C02 using ethanol, because it is less efficient, the only thing
"green" about it, is it comes from a vegetable. i found some figures
somewhere on this interweb, and she now doesn't use it, it's less
enviro-friendly, and costs you more at the pumps because you have to
visit more frequently
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
Yes e-85 is a looser. I think we should switch to pure ethanol made
form something other than corn...like the kudzu for example.
It is important to get away from food products and also important to
go for weed like crops that grow without any help or fertilizer.
Yes you are correct that ethanol only has about 85% of the energy of
gasoline, but the 85% blend is so that it will be less proine to
eating your old seals gaskets and filters.
If and when motors are made properly (eg Brazil where you can run any
combination of ethanol or gasoline without any bad effect) Ethanol
will bury gasoline as it can be made for way cheaper than gasoline (as
long as you do not use corn). Corn ethanol is a scam dreamed up by ADM
and GWB.
Yes e-85 is a looser. I think we should switch to pure ethanol made
form something other than corn...like the kudzu for example.
It is important to get away from food products and also important to
go for weed like crops that grow without any help or fertilizer.
Yes you are correct that ethanol only has about 85% of the energy of
gasoline, but the 85% blend is so that it will be less proine to
eating your old seals gaskets and filters.
If and when motors are made properly (eg Brazil where you can run any
combination of ethanol or gasoline without any bad effect) Ethanol
will bury gasoline as it can be made for way cheaper than gasoline (as
long as you do not use corn). Corn ethanol is a scam dreamed up by ADM
and GWB.
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
On Jun 29, 11:15 am, DAVe <smalleys...@gmail,com > wrote:
> Yes e-85 is a looser. I think we should switch to pure ethanol made
> form something other than corn...like the kudzu for example.
>
> It is important to get away from food products and also important to
> go for weed like crops that grow without any help or fertilizer.
>
> Yes you are correct that ethanol only has about 85% of the energy of
> gasoline, but the 85% blend is so that it will be less proine to
> eating your old seals gaskets and filters.
>
> If and when motors are made properly (eg Brazil where you can run any
> combination of ethanol or gasoline without any bad effect) Ethanol
> will bury gasoline as it can be made for way cheaper than gasoline (as
> long as you do not use corn). Corn ethanol is a scam dreamed up by ADM
> and GWB.
yup this past week there was an article on kudzo on espn. sounds like
you southerners have a real problem with this thing all over the
place. thats what should replace gasoline, something that grows
anywhere, anytime without help.
On Jun 29, 11:15 am, DAVe <smalleys...@gmail,com > wrote:
> Yes e-85 is a looser. I think we should switch to pure ethanol made
> form something other than corn...like the kudzu for example.
>
> It is important to get away from food products and also important to
> go for weed like crops that grow without any help or fertilizer.
>
> Yes you are correct that ethanol only has about 85% of the energy of
> gasoline, but the 85% blend is so that it will be less proine to
> eating your old seals gaskets and filters.
>
> If and when motors are made properly (eg Brazil where you can run any
> combination of ethanol or gasoline without any bad effect) Ethanol
> will bury gasoline as it can be made for way cheaper than gasoline (as
> long as you do not use corn). Corn ethanol is a scam dreamed up by ADM
> and GWB.
yup this past week there was an article on kudzo on espn. sounds like
you southerners have a real problem with this thing all over the
place. thats what should replace gasoline, something that grows
anywhere, anytime without help.
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT), Fish
<davester_349@hotmail,com > wrote:
>On Jun 29, 11:15 am, DAVe <smalleys...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> Yes e-85 is a looser. I think we should switch to pure ethanol made
>> form something other than corn...like the kudzu for example.
>>
>> It is important to get away from food products and also important to
>> go for weed like crops that grow without any help or fertilizer.
>>
>> Yes you are correct that ethanol only has about 85% of the energy of
>> gasoline, but the 85% blend is so that it will be less proine to
>> eating your old seals gaskets and filters.
>>
>> If and when motors are made properly (eg Brazil where you can run any
>> combination of ethanol or gasoline without any bad effect) Ethanol
>> will bury gasoline as it can be made for way cheaper than gasoline (as
>> long as you do not use corn). Corn ethanol is a scam dreamed up by ADM
>> and GWB.
>
>yup this past week there was an article on kudzo on espn. sounds like
>you southerners have a real problem with this thing all over the
>place. thats what should replace gasoline, something that grows
>anywhere, anytime without help.
Yeah, something like Marijuana. ;) Marijuana is a weed and
grows like a weed. You could have many crops a year in the
southern part of the U.S.. And it has many other uses too
besides getting high, like making paper. It would save a lot
of trees. I like the idea. LOL
Geo.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT), Fish
<davester_349@hotmail,com > wrote:
>On Jun 29, 11:15 am, DAVe <smalleys...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> Yes e-85 is a looser. I think we should switch to pure ethanol made
>> form something other than corn...like the kudzu for example.
>>
>> It is important to get away from food products and also important to
>> go for weed like crops that grow without any help or fertilizer.
>>
>> Yes you are correct that ethanol only has about 85% of the energy of
>> gasoline, but the 85% blend is so that it will be less proine to
>> eating your old seals gaskets and filters.
>>
>> If and when motors are made properly (eg Brazil where you can run any
>> combination of ethanol or gasoline without any bad effect) Ethanol
>> will bury gasoline as it can be made for way cheaper than gasoline (as
>> long as you do not use corn). Corn ethanol is a scam dreamed up by ADM
>> and GWB.
>
>yup this past week there was an article on kudzo on espn. sounds like
>you southerners have a real problem with this thing all over the
>place. thats what should replace gasoline, something that grows
>anywhere, anytime without help.
Yeah, something like Marijuana. ;) Marijuana is a weed and
grows like a weed. You could have many crops a year in the
southern part of the U.S.. And it has many other uses too
besides getting high, like making paper. It would save a lot
of trees. I like the idea. LOL
Geo.
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
<gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote:
>
>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>
>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
>gasoline powered car.
>
>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>
>A loser all around!!!!
>
>Geo.
Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
Corn is simply not immune.
Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
sugar.
And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
corn-only conspiracy?
And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
business since the 1970s?
And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
And they don't blend ethanol with gasoline for anything so noble as
making it work in newer cars. That answer is simple, for southerners
anyway. You see, E85 is 85% "ethanol" and 15% "gasoline", correct?
Then think about it, E100 is pure ethanol, or as us from the central
piedmont of NC would call it, Moonshine (or Brandy as the old-timers
call it as a "code" name). Fuel companies start offering E100 in wide
release, and we'll have to deal with an issue a lot larger than school
kids' huffing. We can even "make" our own E85 here in NC, up to
several hundred gallons per month...we just have to register with the
NC ALE so they can come so often and make sure we're blending our
"special recipe" with gasoline and are actually creating
machine-usable E85 instead of Peach or Cherry "brandy". I'd also say
apple brandy, but no one in my neck of the woods has even been able to
get apples to ferment properly enough to use them in 'shine making
(and I guess no one has even asked Boone's Farm how they make
theirs...)
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
<gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote:
>
>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>
>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
>gasoline powered car.
>
>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>
>A loser all around!!!!
>
>Geo.
Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
Corn is simply not immune.
Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
sugar.
And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
corn-only conspiracy?
And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
business since the 1970s?
And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
And they don't blend ethanol with gasoline for anything so noble as
making it work in newer cars. That answer is simple, for southerners
anyway. You see, E85 is 85% "ethanol" and 15% "gasoline", correct?
Then think about it, E100 is pure ethanol, or as us from the central
piedmont of NC would call it, Moonshine (or Brandy as the old-timers
call it as a "code" name). Fuel companies start offering E100 in wide
release, and we'll have to deal with an issue a lot larger than school
kids' huffing. We can even "make" our own E85 here in NC, up to
several hundred gallons per month...we just have to register with the
NC ALE so they can come so often and make sure we're blending our
"special recipe" with gasoline and are actually creating
machine-usable E85 instead of Peach or Cherry "brandy". I'd also say
apple brandy, but no one in my neck of the woods has even been able to
get apples to ferment properly enough to use them in 'shine making
(and I guess no one has even asked Boone's Farm how they make
theirs...)
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
SimRacer wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
>>
> And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
> getting higher in price?
Corn or it's byproducts are in just about everything anymore.
>They making E85 out of milk now?
Cows gotta eat too.
>or out of
> Raisin Bran?
Whaddya think those flakes are made of?
>If E85 is the sole cause for corn
> prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
I don't think it's the sole reason, but it's just one more unnecessary pressure.
SimRacer wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
>>
> And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
> getting higher in price?
Corn or it's byproducts are in just about everything anymore.
>They making E85 out of milk now?
Cows gotta eat too.
>or out of
> Raisin Bran?
Whaddya think those flakes are made of?
>If E85 is the sole cause for corn
> prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
I don't think it's the sole reason, but it's just one more unnecessary pressure.
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:05:14 -0400, SimRacer
<NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
><gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote:
>
>>
>>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
>>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
>>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
>>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
>>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
>>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>>
>>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
>>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
>>gasoline powered car.
>>
>>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
>>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>>
>>A loser all around!!!!
>>
>>Geo.
>
>Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
>helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
>countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
>years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
>both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
>Corn is simply not immune.
>
>Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
>only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
>sugar.
>
>And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
>too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
>corn-only conspiracy?
>
>And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
>that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
>years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
>we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
>business since the 1970s?
I wasn't downing the farmers for making money. I was only
against e85 as a fuel.
>And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
>getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
>Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
>prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
Because all those things have to get to the store and the
trucks that bring them all burn fuel. Fuel costs a lot of
money, so they have to pass on their costs to the consumer.
>And they don't blend ethanol with gasoline for anything so noble as
>making it work in newer cars. That answer is simple, for southerners
>anyway. You see, E85 is 85% "ethanol" and 15% "gasoline", correct?
>Then think about it, E100 is pure ethanol, or as us from the central
>piedmont of NC would call it, Moonshine (or Brandy as the old-timers
>call it as a "code" name). Fuel companies start offering E100 in wide
>release, and we'll have to deal with an issue a lot larger than school
>kids' huffing. We can even "make" our own E85 here in NC, up to
>several hundred gallons per month...we just have to register with the
>NC ALE so they can come so often and make sure we're blending our
>"special recipe" with gasoline and are actually creating
>machine-usable E85 instead of Peach or Cherry "brandy". I'd also say
>apple brandy, but no one in my neck of the woods has even been able to
>get apples to ferment properly enough to use them in 'shine making
>(and I guess no one has even asked Boone's Farm how they make
>theirs...)
That's great for you guys. I'd do it in a minute if I were
you too. But that doesn't address the world wide problem
with bio fuels.
I just saw that they have a car in Japan that runs on water
only. Any water, rain water, tap water, ocean water. If this
is true it's a boon to all transportation.
And Hydrogen fuels are starting to look good too. So if we
drill to get us over the hump til water/hydrogen gets us off
of petroleum. It will take 10 years or so to get switched
over at least.
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:05:14 -0400, SimRacer
<NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
><gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote:
>
>>
>>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
>>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
>>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
>>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
>>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
>>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>>
>>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
>>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
>>gasoline powered car.
>>
>>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
>>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>>
>>A loser all around!!!!
>>
>>Geo.
>
>Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
>helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
>countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
>years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
>both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
>Corn is simply not immune.
>
>Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
>only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
>sugar.
>
>And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
>too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
>corn-only conspiracy?
>
>And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
>that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
>years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
>we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
>business since the 1970s?
I wasn't downing the farmers for making money. I was only
against e85 as a fuel.
>And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
>getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
>Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
>prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
Because all those things have to get to the store and the
trucks that bring them all burn fuel. Fuel costs a lot of
money, so they have to pass on their costs to the consumer.
>And they don't blend ethanol with gasoline for anything so noble as
>making it work in newer cars. That answer is simple, for southerners
>anyway. You see, E85 is 85% "ethanol" and 15% "gasoline", correct?
>Then think about it, E100 is pure ethanol, or as us from the central
>piedmont of NC would call it, Moonshine (or Brandy as the old-timers
>call it as a "code" name). Fuel companies start offering E100 in wide
>release, and we'll have to deal with an issue a lot larger than school
>kids' huffing. We can even "make" our own E85 here in NC, up to
>several hundred gallons per month...we just have to register with the
>NC ALE so they can come so often and make sure we're blending our
>"special recipe" with gasoline and are actually creating
>machine-usable E85 instead of Peach or Cherry "brandy". I'd also say
>apple brandy, but no one in my neck of the woods has even been able to
>get apples to ferment properly enough to use them in 'shine making
>(and I guess no one has even asked Boone's Farm how they make
>theirs...)
That's great for you guys. I'd do it in a minute if I were
you too. But that doesn't address the world wide problem
with bio fuels.
I just saw that they have a car in Japan that runs on water
only. Any water, rain water, tap water, ocean water. If this
is true it's a boon to all transportation.
And Hydrogen fuels are starting to look good too. So if we
drill to get us over the hump til water/hydrogen gets us off
of petroleum. It will take 10 years or so to get switched
over at least.
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
"George Mooth" <gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote in message
news:18ii64tl70e091nnlo5ignmflmiug1bovd@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:05:14 -0400, SimRacer
> <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
>><gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
>>>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
>>>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
>>>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
>>>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
>>>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>>>
>>>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
>>>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
>>>gasoline powered car.
>>>
>>>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
>>>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>>>
>>>A loser all around!!!!
>>>
>>>Geo.
>>
>>Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
>>helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
>>countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
>>years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
>>both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
>>Corn is simply not immune.
>>
>>Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
>>only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
>>sugar.
>>
>>And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
>>too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
>>corn-only conspiracy?
>>
>>And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
>>that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
>>years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
>>we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
>>business since the 1970s?
>
> I wasn't downing the farmers for making money. I was only
> against e85 as a fuel.
And, if you consider Edmunds,com an impartial group, their test may be of
interest:
http :// www .edmunds,com /advice/alternativefuels/articles/120863/article.html
[begin quote]
The Final Score - Fuel Economy and Cost
After refueling we put the fuel amounts and the prices paid into a
spreadsheet and compiled a clear, side-by-side comparison for both fuel
consumption and cost. Remember, these results apply only to this vehicle and
to the prices in effect during our 667-mile test.
Gas Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back, we used 36.5 gallons of
regular gasoline and achieved an average fuel economy of 18.3 mpg.
Gas Cost: We spent $124.66 for gasoline for the trip. The average pump price
was $3.42 per gallon.
E85 Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back we used 50 gallons of E85
and achieved an average fuel economy of 13.5 mpg.
E85 Cost: We spent $154.29 on E85 for the trip. The average pump price was
$3.09 per gallon
Gas/E85 difference:The fuel economy of our Tahoe on E85, under these
conditions, was 26.5 percent worse than it was when running on gas.
A motorist, filling up and comparing the prices of regular gas and E85,
might see the price advantage of E85 (in our case 33 cents or 9.7 percent
less) as a bargain. However, since fuel economy is significantly reduced,
the net effect is that a person choosing to run their flex-fuel vehicle on
E85 on a trip like ours will spend 22.8 percent more to drive the same
distance. For us, the E85 trip was about $30 more expensive - about 22.9
cents per mile on E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
[end quote]
The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down or...??
At the above prices, E85 costs would be $504 more for a 12,000 mile annual
average miles driver.
>>And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
>>getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
>>Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
>>prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
>
> Because all those things have to get to the store and the
> trucks that bring them all burn fuel.
So do all them trimmers, saws, mowers and blowers in that other thread!!
LOL
--
Tom in Bristol
----== Posted via Pronews,com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http :// www .pronews,com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
"George Mooth" <gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote in message
news:18ii64tl70e091nnlo5ignmflmiug1bovd@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:05:14 -0400, SimRacer
> <NOsimracer68@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
>><gmoothdoh@comcast,net > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
>>>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
>>>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
>>>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
>>>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
>>>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>>>
>>>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
>>>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
>>>gasoline powered car.
>>>
>>>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
>>>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>>>
>>>A loser all around!!!!
>>>
>>>Geo.
>>
>>Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
>>helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
>>countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
>>years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
>>both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
>>Corn is simply not immune.
>>
>>Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
>>only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
>>sugar.
>>
>>And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
>>too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
>>corn-only conspiracy?
>>
>>And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
>>that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
>>years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
>>we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
>>business since the 1970s?
>
> I wasn't downing the farmers for making money. I was only
> against e85 as a fuel.
And, if you consider Edmunds,com an impartial group, their test may be of
interest:
http :// www .edmunds,com /advice/alternativefuels/articles/120863/article.html
[begin quote]
The Final Score - Fuel Economy and Cost
After refueling we put the fuel amounts and the prices paid into a
spreadsheet and compiled a clear, side-by-side comparison for both fuel
consumption and cost. Remember, these results apply only to this vehicle and
to the prices in effect during our 667-mile test.
Gas Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back, we used 36.5 gallons of
regular gasoline and achieved an average fuel economy of 18.3 mpg.
Gas Cost: We spent $124.66 for gasoline for the trip. The average pump price
was $3.42 per gallon.
E85 Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back we used 50 gallons of E85
and achieved an average fuel economy of 13.5 mpg.
E85 Cost: We spent $154.29 on E85 for the trip. The average pump price was
$3.09 per gallon
Gas/E85 difference:The fuel economy of our Tahoe on E85, under these
conditions, was 26.5 percent worse than it was when running on gas.
A motorist, filling up and comparing the prices of regular gas and E85,
might see the price advantage of E85 (in our case 33 cents or 9.7 percent
less) as a bargain. However, since fuel economy is significantly reduced,
the net effect is that a person choosing to run their flex-fuel vehicle on
E85 on a trip like ours will spend 22.8 percent more to drive the same
distance. For us, the E85 trip was about $30 more expensive - about 22.9
cents per mile on E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
[end quote]
The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down or...??
At the above prices, E85 costs would be $504 more for a 12,000 mile annual
average miles driver.
>>And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
>>getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
>>Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
>>prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
>
> Because all those things have to get to the store and the
> trucks that bring them all burn fuel.
So do all them trimmers, saws, mowers and blowers in that other thread!!
LOL
--
Tom in Bristol
----== Posted via Pronews,com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http :// www .pronews,com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
Tom Duwe wrote:
>
> The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down or...??
>
the real question is has the efficiency of E85 improved in the past 13
months?
--
>G< ©
Tom Duwe wrote:
>
> The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down or...??
>
the real question is has the efficiency of E85 improved in the past 13
months?
--
>G< ©
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
> Tom Duwe wrote:
>
>>
>> The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down
>> or...??
>>
>
> the real question is has the efficiency of E85 improved in the past 13
> months?
It can't.
Both ethanol and gasoline are imbued with a given level of
energy per pound, and it ain't gonna change.
Ethanol has less energy per unit than gas, so more of it is needed
to produce an equivalent level of power.
End of story.
Now if you want to ask if E85 *vehicles* have better efficiency
than 13 months ago...
> Tom Duwe wrote:
>
>>
>> The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down
>> or...??
>>
>
> the real question is has the efficiency of E85 improved in the past 13
> months?
It can't.
Both ethanol and gasoline are imbued with a given level of
energy per pound, and it ain't gonna change.
Ethanol has less energy per unit than gas, so more of it is needed
to produce an equivalent level of power.
End of story.
Now if you want to ask if E85 *vehicles* have better efficiency
than 13 months ago...
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
On Jun 30, 7:27 pm, "Tom Duwe" <tomd88SPAML...@bvunet,net > wrote:
> "George Mooth" <gmooth...@comcast,net > wrote in message
>
> news:18ii64tl70e091nnlo5ignmflmiug1bovd@4ax,com ...
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:05:14 -0400, SimRacer
> > <NOsimrace...@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
>
> >>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
> >><gmooth...@comcast,net > wrote:
>
> >>>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
> >>>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
> >>>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
> >>>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
> >>>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
> >>>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>
> >>>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
> >>>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
> >>>gasoline powered car.
>
> >>>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
> >>>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>
> >>>A loser all around!!!!
>
> >>>Geo.
>
> >>Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
> >>helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
> >>countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
> >>years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
> >>both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
> >>Corn is simply not immune.
>
> >>Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
> >>only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
> >>sugar.
>
> >>And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
> >>too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
> >>corn-only conspiracy?
>
> >>And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
> >>that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
> >>years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
> >>we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
> >>business since the 1970s?
>
> > I wasn't downing the farmers for making money. I was only
> > against e85 as a fuel.
>
> And, if you consider Edmunds,com an impartial group, their test may be of
> interest:
>
> http :// www .edmunds,com /advice/alternativefuels/articles/120863/articl...
>
> [begin quote]
> The Final Score - Fuel Economy and Cost
> After refueling we put the fuel amounts and the prices paid into a
> spreadsheet and compiled a clear, side-by-side comparison for both fuel
> consumption and cost. Remember, these results apply only to this vehicle and
> to the prices in effect during our 667-mile test.
>
> Gas Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back, we used 36.5 gallons of
> regular gasoline and achieved an average fuel economy of 18.3 mpg.
>
> Gas Cost: We spent $124.66 for gasoline for the trip. The average pump price
> was $3.42 per gallon.
>
> E85 Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back we used 50 gallons of E85
> and achieved an average fuel economy of 13.5 mpg.
>
> E85 Cost: We spent $154.29 on E85 for the trip. The average pump price was
> $3.09 per gallon
>
> Gas/E85 difference:The fuel economy of our Tahoe on E85, under these
> conditions, was 26.5 percent worse than it was when running on gas.
>
> A motorist, filling up and comparing the prices of regular gas and E85,
> might see the price advantage of E85 (in our case 33 cents or 9.7 percent
> less) as a bargain. However, since fuel economy is significantly reduced,
> the net effect is that a person choosing to run their flex-fuel vehicle on
> E85 on a trip like ours will spend 22.8 percent more to drive the same
> distance. For us, the E85 trip was about $30 more expensive - about 22.9
> cents per mile on E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
> [end quote]
>
> The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down or...??
>
> At the above prices, E85 costs would be $504 more for a 12,000 mile annual
> average miles driver.
>
> >>And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
> >>getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
> >>Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
> >>prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
>
> > Because all those things have to get to the store and the
> > trucks that bring them all burn fuel.
>
> So do all them trimmers, saws, mowers and blowers in that other thread!!
> LOL
>
> --
> Tom in Bristol
>
> ----== Posted via Pronews,com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http :// www .pronews,com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
in canada, at least in my area E85 isn't fully caught on, but everyone
seems to be mixing 10-15% ethanol in the gasoline. in my area i can't
go to a gas station (except sonoco or shell) without getting blended
gas (for the same price as regular unleaded). with a 10-15% blend,
will fuel economy change compared to regular?
On Jun 30, 7:27 pm, "Tom Duwe" <tomd88SPAML...@bvunet,net > wrote:
> "George Mooth" <gmooth...@comcast,net > wrote in message
>
> news:18ii64tl70e091nnlo5ignmflmiug1bovd@4ax,com ...
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:05:14 -0400, SimRacer
> > <NOsimrace...@yahoo,com SPAM> wrote:
>
> >>On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:02:58 -0400, George Mooth
> >><gmooth...@comcast,net > wrote:
>
> >>>Ethanol / e85 is a loser. I live in the corn belt and it is
> >>>making farmers rich but, never the less it is a loser.
> >>>It costs more to make than you can get back out of it.
> >>>No one would be making it if it weren't for Gov't.
> >>>subsidies! I don't know the exact figure, but it is
> >>>something like 80 percent as efficient as gasoline.
>
> >>>Racers have known for years that an alcohol powered
> >>>race car used *much* more fuel to run a race than a
> >>>gasoline powered car.
>
> >>>And now the poor of the world can't afford to eat
> >>>because the price of corn based food is so high.
>
> >>>A loser all around!!!!
>
> >>>Geo.
>
> >>Urban myth. Yes, the push for E85 and other forms of ethanol are
> >>helping boost corn prices, but so are 2-3 "emerging" 3rd world
> >>countries whose demand for food and FUEL have skyrocketed the past few
> >>years. Higher demand for food, higher fuel prices worldwide (needed to
> >>both farm and ship the food), cause prices for the base items go up.
> >>Corn is simply not immune.
>
> >>Please don't buy into everything you hear on NPR. Corn isn't even the
> >>only place we get the base ingredient for E85...we are also using
> >>sugar.
>
> >>And don't forget biodiesel. We're using soy beans to make diesel now
> >>too. Are the soy farmers getting rich as well? Or is this just a
> >>corn-only conspiracy?
>
> >>And don't lay off the commercial farmers and the US society/economy
> >>that have put a lot of farmers out of business over the past 20-30
> >>years. Ever hear of Farm Aid? Think there'd be more corn available if
> >>we hadn't run so many family and medium sized farm operations out of
> >>business since the 1970s?
>
> > I wasn't downing the farmers for making money. I was only
> > against e85 as a fuel.
>
> And, if you consider Edmunds,com an impartial group, their test may be of
> interest:
>
> http :// www .edmunds,com /advice/alternativefuels/articles/120863/articl...
>
> [begin quote]
> The Final Score - Fuel Economy and Cost
> After refueling we put the fuel amounts and the prices paid into a
> spreadsheet and compiled a clear, side-by-side comparison for both fuel
> consumption and cost. Remember, these results apply only to this vehicle and
> to the prices in effect during our 667-mile test.
>
> Gas Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back, we used 36.5 gallons of
> regular gasoline and achieved an average fuel economy of 18.3 mpg.
>
> Gas Cost: We spent $124.66 for gasoline for the trip. The average pump price
> was $3.42 per gallon.
>
> E85 Result: From San Diego to Las Vegas and back we used 50 gallons of E85
> and achieved an average fuel economy of 13.5 mpg.
>
> E85 Cost: We spent $154.29 on E85 for the trip. The average pump price was
> $3.09 per gallon
>
> Gas/E85 difference:The fuel economy of our Tahoe on E85, under these
> conditions, was 26.5 percent worse than it was when running on gas.
>
> A motorist, filling up and comparing the prices of regular gas and E85,
> might see the price advantage of E85 (in our case 33 cents or 9.7 percent
> less) as a bargain. However, since fuel economy is significantly reduced,
> the net effect is that a person choosing to run their flex-fuel vehicle on
> E85 on a trip like ours will spend 22.8 percent more to drive the same
> distance. For us, the E85 trip was about $30 more expensive - about 22.9
> cents per mile on E85 versus 18.7 cents per mile with gasoline.
> [end quote]
>
> The article is 13 months old...have E85 prices recently gone down or...??
>
> At the above prices, E85 costs would be $504 more for a 12,000 mile annual
> average miles driver.
>
> >>And lastly, why is everything else in the stores beyond *just* corn
> >>getting higher in price? They making E85 out of milk now? or out of
> >>Raisin Bran? If E85 is the sole cause for corn
> >>prices/issues/shortages, what is driving everything else so high?
>
> > Because all those things have to get to the store and the
> > trucks that bring them all burn fuel.
>
> So do all them trimmers, saws, mowers and blowers in that other thread!!
> LOL
>
> --
> Tom in Bristol
>
> ----== Posted via Pronews,com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http :// www .pronews,com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
in canada, at least in my area E85 isn't fully caught on, but everyone
seems to be mixing 10-15% ethanol in the gasoline. in my area i can't
go to a gas station (except sonoco or shell) without getting blended
gas (for the same price as regular unleaded). with a 10-15% blend,
will fuel economy change compared to regular?
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
"Fish" <davester_349@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:ea6e2709-cc51-4caa-a65e-da203170321d@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups,com ...
<snip>
> in canada, at least in my area E85 isn't fully caught on, but everyone
> seems to be mixing 10-15% ethanol in the gasoline.
Full-on E85 isn't widely available around here, either...my comments about
miseries for small engines applied to the same 10-15% blend.
> in my area i can't
> go to a gas station (except sonoco or shell) without getting blended
> gas (for the same price as regular unleaded). with a 10-15% blend,
> will fuel economy change compared to regular?
I believe so...just filled last week with hi-test in a '96 Camry...maybe
another week to go on it.
--
Tom in Bristol
----== Posted via Pronews,com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http :// www .pronews,com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
"Fish" <davester_349@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:ea6e2709-cc51-4caa-a65e-da203170321d@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups,com ...
<snip>
> in canada, at least in my area E85 isn't fully caught on, but everyone
> seems to be mixing 10-15% ethanol in the gasoline.
Full-on E85 isn't widely available around here, either...my comments about
miseries for small engines applied to the same 10-15% blend.
> in my area i can't
> go to a gas station (except sonoco or shell) without getting blended
> gas (for the same price as regular unleaded). with a 10-15% blend,
> will fuel economy change compared to regular?
I believe so...just filled last week with hi-test in a '96 Camry...maybe
another week to go on it.
--
Tom in Bristol
----== Posted via Pronews,com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http :// www .pronews,com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
Tom Duwe wrote:
> "Fish" <davester 349@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:ea6e2709-cc51-4caa-a65e-da203170321d@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups,com ...
>
> <snip>
>
>> in canada, at least in my area E85 isn't fully caught on, but everyone
>> seems to be mixing 10-15% ethanol in the gasoline.
>
> Full-on E85 isn't widely available around here, either...my comments about
> miseries for small engines applied to the same 10-15% blend.
>
>> in my area i can't
>> go to a gas station (except sonoco or shell) without getting blended
>> gas (for the same price as regular unleaded). with a 10-15% blend,
>> will fuel economy change compared to regular?
>
> I believe so...just filled last week with hi-test in a '96 Camry...maybe
> another week to go on it.
>
All I know is many pumps shut off at $75.00 US. That isn't high enough
any longer! LOL
--
>G< ©
Tom Duwe wrote:
> "Fish" <davester 349@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> news:ea6e2709-cc51-4caa-a65e-da203170321d@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups,com ...
>
> <snip>
>
>> in canada, at least in my area E85 isn't fully caught on, but everyone
>> seems to be mixing 10-15% ethanol in the gasoline.
>
> Full-on E85 isn't widely available around here, either...my comments about
> miseries for small engines applied to the same 10-15% blend.
>
>> in my area i can't
>> go to a gas station (except sonoco or shell) without getting blended
>> gas (for the same price as regular unleaded). with a 10-15% blend,
>> will fuel economy change compared to regular?
>
> I believe so...just filled last week with hi-test in a '96 Camry...maybe
> another week to go on it.
>
All I know is many pumps shut off at $75.00 US. That isn't high enough
any longer! LOL
--
>G< ©
Re: Ethanol / e 85 is a loser!!!
>
> I believe so...just filled last week with hi-test in a '96 Camry...maybe
> another week to go on it.
>
haha wow maybe i should drive a japanese car...i'll be lucky to get a
week and a half outta my '02 olds alero
>
> I believe so...just filled last week with hi-test in a '96 Camry...maybe
> another week to go on it.
>
haha wow maybe i should drive a japanese car...i'll be lucky to get a
week and a half outta my '02 olds alero
