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Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
Chip Ganassi got into N in '00 & won 4 races with SMarlin'00-'05,
JMcMurray-1 in '02(in SM's car), & JPM'07 at Road Sears Point.
Dario Franchitti replaced South Bend IN's David Stremme
supposedly for 'name recognition' & ability to attract sponsors.
Roger Penske has been in N for 25 seasons & got his 62nd win
last week. It appears Penske has fallen behind in the last few years
and Ryan Newman is poised to find a more competitive ride.
Kurt Busch has only 4 wins in his 3 seasons at Penske & his talent
deserves to have a more competitive ride.
KuB had 14W in 5 previous seasons with Roush.
ROTY'02 RN was as good as JJ until 2006.
I can't help but believe that these 2 great Open-Wheel Owners
just can't/won't keep up in N and probably should/will go back to
full-time Open-Wheel Racin, especially since The Reunification!
Former 'Big-Time' Open-Wheel Drivers:
JPM-54sts, 1W, 8T10s, worst amongst Rookie Drivers since '99.
Jacques Villenueve fired after his DNQ at '08 D500.
A.J.Allmendinger-No T10s, made his last 9 attempts, not in T35.
Patrick Carpentier-DNQ 1st 4 of 14, not in T35, but got a Pole.
Sam Hornish from Ohio-Started '08 with KuB's 7th place points,
has made all 17 races of '08, but is still without a Top10.
I'd say the Owners' experiment with Big-Time Name O-Ws is over.
Maybe F1 blue toenail painting Scott Speed will be the last one?
N Owners probably should go back to USAC Open-Wheelers, but for sure
should consider harvesting talent from 'StockCarRacin'' like Late Model!!
Maybe 'StockCarRacin'' is tuffer than Open-Wheelers thot, eh?
--
Crusader
Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
Chip Ganassi got into N in '00 & won 4 races with SMarlin'00-'05,
JMcMurray-1 in '02(in SM's car), & JPM'07 at Road Sears Point.
Dario Franchitti replaced South Bend IN's David Stremme
supposedly for 'name recognition' & ability to attract sponsors.
Roger Penske has been in N for 25 seasons & got his 62nd win
last week. It appears Penske has fallen behind in the last few years
and Ryan Newman is poised to find a more competitive ride.
Kurt Busch has only 4 wins in his 3 seasons at Penske & his talent
deserves to have a more competitive ride.
KuB had 14W in 5 previous seasons with Roush.
ROTY'02 RN was as good as JJ until 2006.
I can't help but believe that these 2 great Open-Wheel Owners
just can't/won't keep up in N and probably should/will go back to
full-time Open-Wheel Racin, especially since The Reunification!
Former 'Big-Time' Open-Wheel Drivers:
JPM-54sts, 1W, 8T10s, worst amongst Rookie Drivers since '99.
Jacques Villenueve fired after his DNQ at '08 D500.
A.J.Allmendinger-No T10s, made his last 9 attempts, not in T35.
Patrick Carpentier-DNQ 1st 4 of 14, not in T35, but got a Pole.
Sam Hornish from Ohio-Started '08 with KuB's 7th place points,
has made all 17 races of '08, but is still without a Top10.
I'd say the Owners' experiment with Big-Time Name O-Ws is over.
Maybe F1 blue toenail painting Scott Speed will be the last one?
N Owners probably should go back to USAC Open-Wheelers, but for sure
should consider harvesting talent from 'StockCarRacin'' like Late Model!!
Maybe 'StockCarRacin'' is tuffer than Open-Wheelers thot, eh?
--
Crusader
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
Crusader wrote:
> Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
> Chip Ganassi got into N in '00 & won 4 races with SMarlin'00-'05,
> JMcMurray-1 in '02(in SM's car), & JPM'07 at Road Sears Point.
> Dario Franchitti replaced South Bend IN's David Stremme
> supposedly for 'name recognition' & ability to attract sponsors.
>
> Roger Penske has been in N for 25 seasons & got his 62nd win
> last week. It appears Penske has fallen behind in the last few years
> and Ryan Newman is poised to find a more competitive ride.
> Kurt Busch has only 4 wins in his 3 seasons at Penske & his talent
> deserves to have a more competitive ride.
> KuB had 14W in 5 previous seasons with Roush.
> ROTY'02 RN was as good as JJ until 2006.
>
> I can't help but believe that these 2 great Open-Wheel Owners
> just can't/won't keep up in N and probably should/will go back to
> full-time Open-Wheel Racin, especially since The Reunification!
>
> Former 'Big-Time' Open-Wheel Drivers:
> JPM-54sts, 1W, 8T10s, worst amongst Rookie Drivers since '99.
> Jacques Villenueve fired after his DNQ at '08 D500.
> A.J.Allmendinger-No T10s, made his last 9 attempts, not in T35.
> Patrick Carpentier-DNQ 1st 4 of 14, not in T35, but got a Pole.
> Sam Hornish from Ohio-Started '08 with KuB's 7th place points,
> has made all 17 races of '08, but is still without a Top10.
>
> I'd say the Owners' experiment with Big-Time Name O-Ws is over.
> Maybe F1 blue toenail painting Scott Speed will be the last one?
> N Owners probably should go back to USAC Open-Wheelers, but for sure
> should consider harvesting talent from 'StockCarRacin'' like Late Model!!
> Maybe 'StockCarRacin'' is tuffer than Open-Wheelers thot, eh?
only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
Crusader wrote:
> Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
> Chip Ganassi got into N in '00 & won 4 races with SMarlin'00-'05,
> JMcMurray-1 in '02(in SM's car), & JPM'07 at Road Sears Point.
> Dario Franchitti replaced South Bend IN's David Stremme
> supposedly for 'name recognition' & ability to attract sponsors.
>
> Roger Penske has been in N for 25 seasons & got his 62nd win
> last week. It appears Penske has fallen behind in the last few years
> and Ryan Newman is poised to find a more competitive ride.
> Kurt Busch has only 4 wins in his 3 seasons at Penske & his talent
> deserves to have a more competitive ride.
> KuB had 14W in 5 previous seasons with Roush.
> ROTY'02 RN was as good as JJ until 2006.
>
> I can't help but believe that these 2 great Open-Wheel Owners
> just can't/won't keep up in N and probably should/will go back to
> full-time Open-Wheel Racin, especially since The Reunification!
>
> Former 'Big-Time' Open-Wheel Drivers:
> JPM-54sts, 1W, 8T10s, worst amongst Rookie Drivers since '99.
> Jacques Villenueve fired after his DNQ at '08 D500.
> A.J.Allmendinger-No T10s, made his last 9 attempts, not in T35.
> Patrick Carpentier-DNQ 1st 4 of 14, not in T35, but got a Pole.
> Sam Hornish from Ohio-Started '08 with KuB's 7th place points,
> has made all 17 races of '08, but is still without a Top10.
>
> I'd say the Owners' experiment with Big-Time Name O-Ws is over.
> Maybe F1 blue toenail painting Scott Speed will be the last one?
> N Owners probably should go back to USAC Open-Wheelers, but for sure
> should consider harvesting talent from 'StockCarRacin'' like Late Model!!
> Maybe 'StockCarRacin'' is tuffer than Open-Wheelers thot, eh?
only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
"SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:D_ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
different types of cars...
"SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:D_ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
different types of cars...
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com >
wrote:
>
>"SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>news:D_ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
>> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
>> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>
>so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
>shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
>test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
>different types of cars...
>
I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com >
wrote:
>
>"SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>news:D_ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
>> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
>> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>
>so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
>shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
>test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
>different types of cars...
>
I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
Roger Hamilton wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>> "SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>> news:D ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>>
>>> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
>>> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>> so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
>> shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
>> test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
>> different types of cars...
>>
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
That might have been the case 15 years ago, but IMO the tables are
turned. Drivers in the IRL don't have the driving challenge that they
did in the early 90s or in CART. JPM jumped into an IRL car and won
Indy without much seat time at all. There are a lot of drivers in open
wheel today that probably couldn't have made the field in the past.
One of the few exceptions to that is Tony Stewart. He had the talent to
make the transition and move up. Carpentier may also have the skills.
JPM could do well if he could keep his head for a three-hour race.
The rest of the open wheelers are just good enough to run IRL (as long
as professional open wheel lasts), but that's pretty much as far as
they'll go.
Roger Hamilton wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>> "SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>> news:D ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>>
>>> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
>>> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>> so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
>> shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
>> test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
>> different types of cars...
>>
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
That might have been the case 15 years ago, but IMO the tables are
turned. Drivers in the IRL don't have the driving challenge that they
did in the early 90s or in CART. JPM jumped into an IRL car and won
Indy without much seat time at all. There are a lot of drivers in open
wheel today that probably couldn't have made the field in the past.
One of the few exceptions to that is Tony Stewart. He had the talent to
make the transition and move up. Carpentier may also have the skills.
JPM could do well if he could keep his head for a three-hour race.
The rest of the open wheelers are just good enough to run IRL (as long
as professional open wheel lasts), but that's pretty much as far as
they'll go.
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
On Jul 2, 9:31 pm, Roger Hamilton <noem...@deademail.tyx> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <J...@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >"SG" <spaamtrap...@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> >news:D ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> >> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
> >> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>
> >so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
> >shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
> >test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
> >different types of cars...
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
How do you back up your claim that open wheel drivers are a better
class?... I'm asking for *facts* that support your claim, not just
opinions....
On Jul 2, 9:31 pm, Roger Hamilton <noem...@deademail.tyx> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <J...@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >"SG" <spaamtrap...@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> >news:D ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> >> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
> >> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>
> >so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
> >shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
> >test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
> >different types of cars...
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
How do you back up your claim that open wheel drivers are a better
class?... I'm asking for *facts* that support your claim, not just
opinions....
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
"Roger Hamilton" <noemail@deademail.tyx> wrote in message
news:fsao64huuaq2ope8mgpi74ll95hb4o3tmg@4ax,com ...
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>>news:D_ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>>
>>> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
>>> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>>
>>so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
>>shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
>>test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
>>different types of cars...
>>
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
>
Then why do they have so much difficulty keeping up with the other "backwards" Cup car regulars?
They can't even put up a decent showing in their own element...... road courses.
Lets face it.... The only reason they stepped "backward" is because of the potential for their pay
checks to step "forward" a great deal more than it ever could in OW racing.
"Roger Hamilton" <noemail@deademail.tyx> wrote in message
news:fsao64huuaq2ope8mgpi74ll95hb4o3tmg@4ax,com ...
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:40 -0400, "Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"SG" <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>>news:D_ednf2XQoCFWvbVnZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>>
>>> only thing that's tuffer is trying to unlearn things that made them able
>>> to successfully drive real race cars in the first place
>>
>>so, the open wheel cars are "real" cars and easier to drive.... guess that
>>shows in their inability to be major competitors in a stock car? The real
>>test of a driver, not a steering wheel holder, is how well they do in
>>different types of cars...
>>
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
>
Then why do they have so much difficulty keeping up with the other "backwards" Cup car regulars?
They can't even put up a decent showing in their own element...... road courses.
Lets face it.... The only reason they stepped "backward" is because of the potential for their pay
checks to step "forward" a great deal more than it ever could in OW racing.
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
"Roger Hamilton" <noemail@deademail.tyx> wrote in message
news:fsao64huuaq2ope8mgpi74ll95hb4o3tmg@4ax,com ...
>>
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
it's all opinion based... if they were indeed a better class of driver they
would be better drivers.... drivers drive, some do better in certain
cars(obviously), but really good drivers excell whether it's a gokart or
_______ (fill in the blank with your favorite series)... those OW drivers
really do take a huge step backwards in a stockcar, they go from winning OW
races to racing in the back of the pack in NASCAR... HUGE step (to the)
back...<G>
"Roger Hamilton" <noemail@deademail.tyx> wrote in message
news:fsao64huuaq2ope8mgpi74ll95hb4o3tmg@4ax,com ...
>>
>
> I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
it's all opinion based... if they were indeed a better class of driver they
would be better drivers.... drivers drive, some do better in certain
cars(obviously), but really good drivers excell whether it's a gokart or
_______ (fill in the blank with your favorite series)... those OW drivers
really do take a huge step backwards in a stockcar, they go from winning OW
races to racing in the back of the pack in NASCAR... HUGE step (to the)
back...<G>
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
"Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:pigbk.7395$3q7.4947@newsfe15.lga...
>
> "Roger Hamilton" <noemail@deademail.tyx> wrote in message
> news:fsao64huuaq2ope8mgpi74ll95hb4o3tmg@4ax,com ...
> >>
> >
> > I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> > wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> > huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
>
> it's all opinion based... if they were indeed a better class of driver
they
> would be better drivers.... drivers drive, some do better in certain
> cars(obviously), but really good drivers excell whether it's a gokart or
> _______ (fill in the blank with your favorite series)... those OW drivers
> really do take a huge step backwards in a stockcar, they go from winning
OW
> races to racing in the back of the pack in NASCAR... HUGE step (to the)
> back...<G>
>
Kinda like finishing eighth grade* then starting high school. You gotta
start at the bottom all over again.
* For the DEJ fans - Most people actually DO finish the eighth grade
"Joey Tribiani" <Joey@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:pigbk.7395$3q7.4947@newsfe15.lga...
>
> "Roger Hamilton" <noemail@deademail.tyx> wrote in message
> news:fsao64huuaq2ope8mgpi74ll95hb4o3tmg@4ax,com ...
> >>
> >
> > I don't think that necessarily is a valid argument. I think open
> > wheelers are a better class of driver than N. OW drivers are taking a
> > huge step backward when they strap into a N seat.
>
> it's all opinion based... if they were indeed a better class of driver
they
> would be better drivers.... drivers drive, some do better in certain
> cars(obviously), but really good drivers excell whether it's a gokart or
> _______ (fill in the blank with your favorite series)... those OW drivers
> really do take a huge step backwards in a stockcar, they go from winning
OW
> races to racing in the back of the pack in NASCAR... HUGE step (to the)
> back...<G>
>
Kinda like finishing eighth grade* then starting high school. You gotta
start at the bottom all over again.
* For the DEJ fans - Most people actually DO finish the eighth grade
Re: Open Wheelers Demise In NASCAR
"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:io-dneZ8BJ7ECPDVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
>
>
> * For the DEJ fans - Most people actually DO finish the eighth grade
Finishing (that eighth grade) at age 18 still qualifies, .... no ?? :)
>
>
"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:io-dneZ8BJ7ECPDVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
>
>
> * For the DEJ fans - Most people actually DO finish the eighth grade
Finishing (that eighth grade) at age 18 still qualifies, .... no ?? :)
>
>
