Road course ringers, my ass...

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...



"Crusader" <cru357@sbcglobal,net > wrote in message
news:6cknk7F3h6rp0U1@mid.individual,net ...
> "armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
> news:fJmdnUULm-on2_nVnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
> >
> > "Crusader" <cru357@sbcglobal,net > wrote in message
> > news:6cfjfiF3gtdgmU1@mid.individual,net ...
> >> No need to show CruStats on JJ cuz he's simply the best driver
> >> year after year since 2002. I'll never forget his Busch crash
> >> at WG, JJ was elated to be alive after that hit!
> >> --
> >> Crusader
> >>
> >
> > Team success does not necessarily equate to superior driving talent.
> >
> >
> Best i can do is 'vice-versa' Casey Mears!
> Car/Owner/Crew & Driver--I cain't decide. Have u?
> CRU
>

I never thought Mears had any talent, and he was hired strictly for R&D. I
think Hendrick is clearing the runway to potentially land Stewart.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 24, 4:05 pm, "armpit" <armarmpit...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV...@verizon,net > wrote in message
>
> news:JWb8k.14$td.8@trnddc04...
>
>
>
> > I recall a time before Jimmie Johnson drove for Hendrick, he was racing at
> > Watkin's Glen I believe, and he was so out of control, he took his car
> > airborne, & stuck it into a pile of Styrofoam.
>
> While I have never touted JJ's driving prowess, that crash was clearly due
> to a mechanical failure. Watch this clip, and you'll see his car suddenly
> swerve for no reason. http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=R7vu6FVAwQM

That crash always reminds me of this one for some reason
http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=-v2Z5U029p8

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

In article Seven <sevensks@chek,com > wrote:

>So four of those six ringers (one of whom isn't a ringer at all, as we
>discussed earlier) were taken out by the impatience or incompetence of
>Cup regulars.
>-Steven


Not completely like a lot of wrecks in the Nationwide series....
A lot of those wrecks are NOT the fault of the 'inexperienced' drivers...
But as nearly always, the dumper keeps on going,
and the dumpee is out...


Dan
****************************************
When people say, 'can I ask you a question?',
you really don't have much of a choice...

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Seven" wrote:
>
> I'll save everybody the effort of reading my full response to this a
> second time, and simply do a quick recap.
>
> Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
> transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.

Couldn't have happened when he got into Montoya, huh?

> Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.


"Mechanical failures" or abuse of equipment?


> Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.


He's always getting caught up in other people's problems it seems. Perhaps
if he didn't blame others for his problems, he'd be treated with a little
more respect in Cup.

> Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
> improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.

It wasn't that Pruett was blocking or holding up Stewart, huh?

> Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
> great before, but this sealed it.


So his crappy driving wasn't his problem, it was more Gordon's/Busch's
fault? Hmmmmm


> Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.
>
> So four of those six ringers (one of whom isn't a ringer at all, as we
> discussed earlier) were taken out by the impatience or incompetence of
> Cup regulars.


Oh, whoas them...,it is part & parcel of being outsiders of a sport trying
to make a name for themselves at the regular driver's expense.
I've seen it happen dozen's of times -ringers riding all over the back
bumper of a regular's car & trying to nudge them out of the way, & when they
finally get by, they get what is coming to them.
That's Na$car, bud. Been that way for decades.


Ambrose and Fellows in particular actually ran *very*
> well during the event, but ended up finishing poorly due to the
> aforementioned incidents.
>
Yeah, ok. "Coulda, woulda shoulda" comes to mind.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 24, 3:46 pm, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV...@verizon,net >
wrote:
> "Seven" wrote:
>
> > I'll save everybody the effort of reading my full response to this a
> > second time, and simply do a quick recap.
>
> > Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
> > transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.
>
> Couldn't have happened when he got into Montoya, huh?

It could have, but it's a lot more common to see transmission damage
occur when somebody is getting spun than when they're spinning someone
else. Come on now, do you really think a tap that barely scratched the
paint on the nose of his car caused a gear to break, and that the
problem somehow magically didn't manifest until Sadler sent him
around?

> > Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
>
> "Mechanical failures" or abuse of equipment?

He lost brake pressure on lap three. I'd be more likely to chalk that
up to a component failure than abuse of equipment, but either is
possible.

> > Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
>
> He's always getting caught up in other people's problems it seems. Perhaps
> if he didn't blame others for his problems, he'd be treated with a little
> more respect in Cup.

Somehow, I don't think that would help him any. Plenty of Cup regulars
blame each other for their problems, and it doesn't seem to make them
any less likely to get wrecked on the ovals. You know what might help
though? Cup regulars not screwing up in the first place.

> > Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
> > improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.
>
> It wasn't that Pruett was blocking or holding up Stewart, huh?

Nope. Cars bunched up at the top of the hill curve and Stewart
couldn't or wouldn't slow up, and ended up shoving Pruett right on
through.

> > Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
> > great before, but this sealed it.
>
> So his crappy driving wasn't his problem, it was more Gordon's/Busch's
> fault? Hmmmmm

As I said, he wasn't going to run away with the show prior to the
accident, but he wasn't going to end up 35th either. Robby's car got
spun into him. The only role his driving played in this situation was
that it left him near Busch and Gordon.

> > Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.
>
> > So four of those six ringers (one of whom isn't a ringer at all, as we
> > discussed earlier) were taken out by the impatience or incompetence of
> > Cup regulars.
>
> Oh, whoas them...,it is part & parcel of being outsiders of a sport trying
> to make a name for themselves at the regular driver's expense.
> I've seen it happen dozen's of times -ringers riding all over the back
> bumper of a regular's car & trying to nudge them out of the way, & when they
> finally get by, they get what is coming to them.
> That's Na$car, bud. Been that way for decades.

And if they make a clean pass and then get booted, would you still say
that they've got 'what is coming to them'? If ringers took it upon
themselves to treat others they way they're treated on these courses,
you'd have smoking heaps of Cup regular machinery buried windshield-
deep in tire barriers. They're not running to the pits on race day,
pulling a Cup regular out his car, and stealing the ride for an
afternoon. They're being hired on by team owners who don't think their
drivers are able to do the job right, or want the extra bit of
security. That's an owner's prerogative, and if the drivers don't like
having somebody else doing their job for a week, they should take it
upon themselves to become better road racers. The SCCA is open to
everybody, and while the cars aren't to the level of Cup cars, it'd be
a lot harder to deny a guy the chance to run the twisty tracks if you
can show you have experience on them.

> Ambrose and Fellows in particular actually ran *very*> well during the event, but ended up finishing poorly due to the
> > aforementioned incidents.
>
> Yeah, ok. "Coulda, woulda shoulda" comes to mind.

Fair enough, the results sheets don't look favorably for either of
those two. But these were both late-race incidents that neither had
any capacity to avoid. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong
time.

If you watched the race though, you'd realize that despite their
respective finishing positions, Ambrose earned Little Debbie and the
Wood Brothers *way* more air time than Sadler did for Stanley. If the
two were up for the same contract tomorrow based on the race
yesterday, I'd take even money that Sadler's the one walking away
looking for the local want ads. Sometimes the finish isn't everything.

-Steven

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Seven" <sevensks@chek,com > wrote in message
news:86295b99-0162-47c2-aef3-cffbff3b00e6@25g2000hsx.googlegroups,com ...

>
> It could have, but it's a lot more common to see transmission damage
> occur when somebody is getting spun than when they're spinning someone
> else. Come on now, do you really think a tap that barely scratched the
> paint on the nose of his car caused a gear to break, and that the
> problem somehow magically didn't manifest until Sadler sent him
> around?

Actually - it's not so common to see transmission problems associated with a
bump. It's way more likely to be either bad parts or bad driving. Chose
which ever one makes you more comfortable.

>
>> > Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
>>
>> "Mechanical failures" or abuse of equipment?
>
> He lost brake pressure on lap three. I'd be more likely to chalk that
> up to a component failure than abuse of equipment, but either is
> possible.

And how is a loss of brake pressure on lap three abuse of equipment? You
could litterly ride on the brakes for three laps and not cause that. You
are venturing off too far into the "anything could happen" realm with your
responses.

>
>> > Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
>>
>> He's always getting caught up in other people's problems it seems.
>> Perhaps
>> if he didn't blame others for his problems, he'd be treated with a little
>> more respect in Cup.
>
> Somehow, I don't think that would help him any. Plenty of Cup regulars
> blame each other for their problems, and it doesn't seem to make them
> any less likely to get wrecked on the ovals. You know what might help
> though? Cup regulars not screwing up in the first place.

Hey - Cup regulars don't screw up. It's the other guys that do...


>
> And if they make a clean pass and then get booted, would you still say
> that they've got 'what is coming to them'? If ringers took it upon
> themselves to treat others they way they're treated on these courses,
> you'd have smoking heaps of Cup regular machinery buried windshield-
> deep in tire barriers.

I have to call Bullshit on this one. The ringers are not generally treated
badly. Please - rather than make the unsupported statement, list the unfair
and intentional bad treatment you saw Sunday.


> They're not running to the pits on race day,
> pulling a Cup regular out his car, and stealing the ride for an
> afternoon. They're being hired on by team owners who don't think their
> drivers are able to do the job right, or want the extra bit of
> security. That's an owner's prerogative, and if the drivers don't like
> having somebody else doing their job for a week, they should take it
> upon themselves to become better road racers. The SCCA is open to
> everybody, and while the cars aren't to the level of Cup cars, it'd be
> a lot harder to deny a guy the chance to run the twisty tracks if you
> can show you have experience on them.

Why say all that? The drivers are not complaining about the ringers - the
fans are.


>
> Fair enough, the results sheets don't look favorably for either of
> those two. But these were both late-race incidents that neither had
> any capacity to avoid. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong
> time.

Gotta love a guy that opens with "Fair enough". Really.


--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 25, 12:51 am, "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREM...@alltel,net > wrote:
> "Seven" <seven...@chek,com > wrote in message
>
> news:86295b99-0162-47c2-aef3-cffbff3b00e6@25g2000hsx.googlegroups,com ...
>
>
>
> > It could have, but it's a lot more common to see transmission damage
> > occur when somebody is getting spun than when they're spinning someone
> > else. Come on now, do you really think a tap that barely scratched the
> > paint on the nose of his car caused a gear to break, and that the
> > problem somehow magically didn't manifest until Sadler sent him
> > around?
>
> Actually - it's not so common to see transmission problems associated with a
> bump.  It's way more likely to be either bad parts or bad driving.  Chose
> which ever one makes you more comfortable.


Q: HOW DID MARCOS DO IN HIS DEBUT?

"He did what we all expected – to put it up front," said Wood.

"He managed to get up in the top five – pretty much most of the time
no worse than a sixth- or seventh-place car.

"It was just unfortunate the way it worked out. He just got hit in the
rear wheel. I don't know whether – when he went to change gears and go
to first gear it must've broken first gear and thrown a tooth out of
the side of the case. There's a hole in the transmission.

http :// www .woodbrothersracing,com /team news2.cfm?ID=1670

Just to make it official <G>

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Seven" <sevensks@chek,com > wrote in message
news:86295b99-0162-47c2-aef3-cffbff3b00e6@25g2000hsx.googlegroups,com ...
> On Jun 24, 3:46 pm, "Mike/Speeed" <speeedracerREMOV...@verizon,net >
> wrote:
> > "Seven" wrote:
> >
> > > I'll save everybody the effort of reading my full response to this a
> > > second time, and simply do a quick recap.
> >
> > > Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
> > > transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.
> >
> > Couldn't have happened when he got into Montoya, huh?
>
> It could have, but it's a lot more common to see transmission damage
> occur when somebody is getting spun than when they're spinning someone
> else. Come on now, do you really think a tap that barely scratched the
> paint on the nose of his car caused a gear to break, and that the
> problem somehow magically didn't manifest until Sadler sent him
> around?
>

Word from his team is that he put a hole in his transmission which wouldn't
have occurred as a result of spinning the wheels when being spun. It would
have came from a miss-shift, or sticking the car into first with the RPMs
up.


> > > Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
> >
> > "Mechanical failures" or abuse of equipment?
>
> He lost brake pressure on lap three. I'd be more likely to chalk that
> up to a component failure than abuse of equipment, but either is
> possible.
>
> > > Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
> >
> > He's always getting caught up in other people's problems it seems.
Perhaps
> > if he didn't blame others for his problems, he'd be treated with a
little
> > more respect in Cup.
>
> Somehow, I don't think that would help him any. Plenty of Cup regulars
> blame each other for their problems, and it doesn't seem to make them
> any less likely to get wrecked on the ovals. You know what might help
> though? Cup regulars not screwing up in the first place.
>

They "screw up" all season long - just as they do in all other racing
series. In a series like Na$car, with the talent & equipment so evenly
matched, capitalizing on the other driver's "screw ups" is critical in
obtaining a measure of success in the series.
If you are expecting perfection from the athletes in any sport, get ready
for perpetual disappointment, as it would be a rare occurrence.


> > > Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
> > > improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.
> >
> > It wasn't that Pruett was blocking or holding up Stewart, huh?
>
> Nope. Cars bunched up at the top of the hill curve and Stewart
> couldn't or wouldn't slow up, and ended up shoving Pruett right on
> through.

Ambros got into Montoya inadvertently as well.
Why is it you aren't chastising him?


>
> > > Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
> > > great before, but this sealed it.
> >
> > So his crappy driving wasn't his problem, it was more Gordon's/Busch's
> > fault? Hmmmmm
>
> As I said, he wasn't going to run away with the show prior to the
> accident, but he wasn't going to end up 35th either. Robby's car got
> spun into him. The only role his driving played in this situation was
> that it left him near Busch and Gordon.
>
> > > Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.
> >
> > > So four of those six ringers (one of whom isn't a ringer at all, as we
> > > discussed earlier) were taken out by the impatience or incompetence of
> > > Cup regulars.
> >
> > Oh, whoas them...,it is part & parcel of being outsiders of a sport
trying
> > to make a name for themselves at the regular driver's expense.
> > I've seen it happen dozen's of times -ringers riding all over the back
> > bumper of a regular's car & trying to nudge them out of the way, & when
they
> > finally get by, they get what is coming to them.
> > That's Na$car, bud. Been that way for decades.
>
> And if they make a clean pass and then get booted, would you still say
> that they've got 'what is coming to them'?

No, but most of these encounters with Cup regulars aren't on purpose, they
are a result of close quarters racing. The only way you can pass a slower
car at times on a road course is the move the slower car out of your way. It
was just like that at Bristol up until recently.
Road course racing in Cup has always been about bumping, grinding, and
aggressive maneuvers. That isn't the driver's fault, it's been like that
since the beginning.
Show me a driver who is courteous & I will show you a loser. Say "Hi!" to
Mark Martin.



If ringers took it upon
> themselves to treat others they way they're treated on these courses,
> you'd have smoking heaps of Cup regular machinery buried windshield-
> deep in tire barriers.

So, it solely due to the effort of (six is it?) non-regular drivers that we
didn't have unmitigated chaos last Sunday? LOL



They're not running to the pits on race day,
> pulling a Cup regular out his car, and stealing the ride for an
> afternoon. They're being hired on by team owners who don't think their
> drivers are able to do the job right, or want the extra bit of
> security. That's an owner's prerogative, and if the drivers don't like
> having somebody else doing their job for a week, they should take it
> upon themselves to become better road racers.

The owner's haven't gotten their money's worth by bringing in these
so-called "specialists". Their lack of victories clearly show that.


The SCCA is open to
> everybody, and while the cars aren't to the level of Cup cars, it'd be
> a lot harder to deny a guy the chance to run the twisty tracks if you
> can show you have experience on them.
>
> > Ambrose and Fellows in particular actually ran *very*> well during the
event, but ended up finishing poorly due to the
> > > aforementioned incidents.
> >
> > Yeah, ok. "Coulda, woulda shoulda" comes to mind.
>
> Fair enough, the results sheets don't look favorably for either of
> those two. But these were both late-race incidents that neither had
> any capacity to avoid. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong
> time.
>
> If you watched the race though, you'd realize that despite their
> respective finishing positions, Ambrose earned Little Debbie and the
> Wood Brothers *way* more air time than Sadler did for Stanley. If the
> two were up for the same contract tomorrow based on the race
> yesterday, I'd take even money that Sadler's the one walking away
> looking for the local want ads. Sometimes the finish isn't everything.


They only get "air time" because the idiots at the networks give it to them.
If air time was given based on their performance, they see substantially
less coverage.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On 2008-06-25, Mike/Speeed <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote:
> The owner's haven't gotten their money's worth by bringing in these
> so-called "specialists". Their lack of victories clearly show that.

Which of the drivers who were replaced by ringers do you think
would have won the race then?

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Paul Murray" <paul@murray,net > wrote in message
news:SZv8k.32127$wc2.5504@en-nntp-01.am2.easynews,com ...
> On 2008-06-25, Mike/Speeed <speeedracerREMOVE24@verizon,net > wrote:
>> The owner's haven't gotten their money's worth by bringing in these
>> so-called "specialists". Their lack of victories clearly show that.
>
> Which of the drivers who were replaced by ringers do you think
> would have won the race then?


Taking one's thoughts out of context & spinning them in a direction
different from where they were meant is a typical, dishonest Usenet tactic,
and I will have none of it.
My point was and I quote: "I've never liked the practice of replacing Cup
regulars, or fielding one-off
teams just to garner a few owner points in the first place."
With 29th or worse finishes coming from the "ringers", the money spent by
the owners to gain a few points was in my opinion - wasted.
I can assure you that the regulars the ringers replaced as a group would
have done better than their replacement counterparts for my numerous
previously listed reasons.
And as far as the lack of victories are concerned, ask any of the ringers
what their goal was in entering the race was, and I'd imagine - to a man -
they'd claim that anything less than a victory (or at least a top-five
finish) would have been a disappointment.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

In article
<d0f869ba-acc9-49f5-867a-fcb5a5d16898@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups,com >,
sevensks@chek,com says...
>
>Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
>transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.
>Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
>Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
>Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
>improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.
>Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
>great before, but this sealed it.
>Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.
>

The point is the ringers ALWAYS have poor performances at the road courses,
every year, twice a year. They are consistently bad. There are a million
excuses why they perform so poorly (mechanical failure, someone took them out,
etc.) but in the final analysis I believe there is enough historical evidence
to just say they just aren't very good. It's the responsibility of the driver
to take car of his equipment and avoid getting taken out. When they fail to
compete time and time again a shadow of suspicion falls over the ability of
the driver.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 24, 5:11 pm, electric...@xo,com (Electrician) wrote:
> In article
> <d0f869ba-acc9-49f5-867a-fcb5a5d16...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups,com >,
> seven...@chek,com says...
>
>
>
> >Ambrose - Not a ringer, scheduled for the car. Taken out by
> >transmission damage inflicted when Sadler spun him.
> >Said - No comment, mechanical failures put him out.
> >Fellows - Ran well until he got caught in Harvick's late-race screwup.
> >Pruett - Decent run ruined when Stewart used Pruett's car as a
> >improvised plow to clear some space up ahead.
> >Papis - Caught in the Kurt Busch/Robby Gordon wreck. He wasn't running
> >great before, but this sealed it.
> >Simo - Like Said, he simply didn't matter.
>
> The point is the ringers ALWAYS have poor performances at the road courses,
> every year, twice a year. They are consistently bad. There are a million
> excuses why they perform so poorly (mechanical failure, someone took them out,
> etc.) but in the final analysis I believe there is enough historical evidence
> to just say they just aren't very good. It's the responsibility of the driver
> to take car of his equipment and avoid getting taken out. When they fail to
> compete time and time again a shadow of suspicion falls over the ability of
> the driver.

Just to be clear, I'm going to leave Ambrose out of my response, since
his inclusion on the ringers list was incorrect in the first place.
Scheduled for twelve races between the 21 and 47 cars and all that.

Anyway, to the original point, I have to concede immediately that a
couple of the guys are genuinely junk in their Cup careers so far.
Goosens and Simo haven't run for crap in their combined eight starts.
Simo did manage a top ten at one point, but finished off the lead lap
on his other five. Some of the other perennial ringer potshots though
seem a little unfair. I mean, granted, they're not winning races, but
almost to a man, they've posted results that nearly mirror their Cup
counterparts.

P.J. Jones for example has a nearly identical record to Mike Skinner.
Pruett's only one top five, one LLF, and one total race behind Jimmie
Johnson. Boris Said's shares a 20.8 average finish with Dale
Earnhardt, Jr. Ron Fellows posts similar numbers to Kurt Busch. I
realize that few if any race fans would list these guys among NASCAR's
greatest road course drivers, but we're talking about three NASCAR
champions and Cup's most popular driver. Tell me then, what's the
problem with these Cup guys? Are they not taking care of equipment and
avoiding getting taken out? Are they not showing proper respect to the
other drivers? Would you cast suspicion on their abilities as
drivers?

I don't think it's reasonable here to say that 'they're just not good
road course drivers'. Racing Cup cars is what they get paid to do,
regardless of the course configuration --- the same terms that ringers
no doubt get when they step in for a race or two per year. So why
aren't the Cup regulars, who have the respect, who know how to avoid
getting taken out, who know not to abuse equipment... why are they not
running better than their part-time counterparts?

-Steven

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"Seven" <sevensks@chek,com > wrote in message
news:8f6f12f7-f8a8-48df-aca5-e89f9025f70b@25g2000hsx.googlegroups,com ...

>
> Anyway, to the original point, I have to concede immediately that a
> couple of the guys are genuinely junk in their Cup careers so far.
> Goosens and Simo haven't run for crap in their combined eight starts.
> Simo did manage a top ten at one point, but finished off the lead lap
> on his other five. Some of the other perennial ringer potshots though
> seem a little unfair. I mean, granted, they're not winning races, but
> almost to a man, they've posted results that nearly mirror their Cup
> counterparts.

How so? Show me a ringer that has won. Show me the list of top 10's by the
ringers. They have consistently been a mile away from the regulars.

>
> P.J. Jones for example has a nearly identical record to Mike Skinner.

Now that's a hell of a statement.

> Pruett's only one top five, one LLF, and one total race behind Jimmie
> Johnson.

Ok - and what does that say? Johnson is at best (to date) an also ran on
the road courses. Why not compare Pruette to Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, or
some of the other well run road course Cup regulars?

> Boris Said's shares a 20.8 average finish with Dale
> Earnhardt, Jr.

Ok - he's as bad as one of the poorer performing Cup regulars. And your
point is?


> Ron Fellows posts similar numbers to Kurt Busch. I
> realize that few if any race fans would list these guys among NASCAR's
> greatest road course drivers, but we're talking about three NASCAR
> champions and Cup's most popular driver. Tell me then, what's the
> problem with these Cup guys?

I guess the problem is that for the time that these ringers have been
playing in the sandbox, the Cup regulars have been cleaning their clocks.
Throw what ever statistics you want at it - who has been winning?


--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...

On Jun 25, 1:01 am, "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREM...@alltel,net > wrote:
"Seven" <seven...@chek,com > wrote

> > Boris Said's shares a 20.8 average finish with Dale
> > Earnhardt, Jr.
>
> Ok - he's as bad as one of the poorer performing Cup regulars.  And your
> point is?

Lets not forget that Jr passed Fellows in the last 2 or 3 laps of a
Busch race on a road course for a win. And he also did well with his
father and TS at the Rolex 24.

I think that fire, in the Corvette at Sears Point (yes - Sears Point)
fucked him up.

Re: Road course ringers, my ass...


"TS02_05champ" <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:ba618305-2166-4a09-975f-6e748c94debd@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups,com ...



> Lets not forget that Jr passed Fellows in the last 2 or 3 laps of a
> Busch race on a road course for a win. And he also did well with his
> father and TS at the Rolex 24.

That's quite a different race though (the Rolex). In the total, I don't see
Jr as a particularly strong road course driver.

>
> I think that fire, in the Corvette at Sears Point (yes - Sears Point)
> fucked him up.

Could be, but I'm not so sure I'd jump on that one to quickly myself.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net