Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

John McCoy wrote:
> chuck steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in
> news:ykO8k.93$8c.89@trndny05:
>
>> In article jimmygator@gmail,com wrote:
>>
>>> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
>>> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
>>> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
>>> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have
>>> made the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>> Because they haven't..
>> If you say "we have to slow these cars down
>> by taking away a few hundred HP" at a track,
>> then the cars have outgrown the track.
>> So far... they have not done that with the IRL cars.
>> (IIRC)
>
> Agreed with respect to the IRL cars (which, incidently, are quite
> a bit slower at Indy than they used to be). These are relatively
> light cars with lots of downforce, racing mostly on fairly flat
> tracks. They have a ways to go yet before they overcome the
> tracks (possibly excepting Texas, where the g-forces are an issue
> for the drivers).
>
> But if you look at other forms of motorsport, it's been common in
> recent times to make substantial changes, or even abandon a course,
> because the cars have become too fast for it. Chicanes were added
> to the Mulsanne when the Le Mans cars started exceeding 250mph,
> and the hump was removed after the Mercedes cars started doing
> backflips. Imola was reconfigured after Senna's death, and has
> since been removed from the F1 circuit. Spa likewise was removed,
> altho it's been rebuilt and is, I think, back this year.
>
> John


I feel the reason for *retirement* of some of these track has to do with
the cost to make the needed changes to cover the speeds. No ROI.
They'll never build another Le Mans or Daytona for that matter but they
still race in Monaco. So in theory, many track designs are obsolete and
the one's they're building, well the racing sucks! :-)

--

>G< ©

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

">G< ©" <jimmygator@gmail,com > wrote in news:1d25d$4864285d$4b5b5118$16415
@ALLTEL,net :

> I feel the reason for *retirement* of some of these track has to do with
> the cost to make the needed changes to cover the speeds. No ROI.

Exactly so. And Dan's point is, that at Daytona & Talladega, either
the tracks should be changed if the ROI will pay for it, or NASCAR
should stop using them if they can't economically be changed.

NASCAR is unique amoung major motorsports series in choosing to use
crippled cars at 2 of it's venues, rather than insisting the tracks
be made safe.

John

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

John McCoy wrote:
> ">G< ©" <jimmygator@gmail,com > wrote in news:1d25d$4864285d$4b5b5118$16415
> @ALLTEL,net :
>
>> I feel the reason for *retirement* of some of these track has to do with
>> the cost to make the needed changes to cover the speeds. No ROI.
>
> Exactly so. And Dan's point is, that at Daytona & Talladega, either
> the tracks should be changed if the ROI will pay for it, or NASCAR
> should stop using them if they can't economically be changed.
>
> NASCAR is unique amoung major motorsports series in choosing to use
> crippled cars at 2 of it's venues, rather than insisting the tracks
> be made safe.
>
> John


and until such time when Daytona and Dega stop filling the stands, this
will likely not happen...

--

>G< ©

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

On Jun 26, 9:11 am, chuck st...@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote:
> In article jimmyga...@gmail,com wrote:
> >I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
> >faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
> >that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
> >heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have made
> >the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>
> Because they haven't..
> If you say "we have to slow these cars down
> by taking away a few hundred HP" at a track,
> then the cars have outgrown the track.
> So far... they have not done that with the IRL cars.
> (IIRC)
>
> Dan

LOL! The IRL was created to slow everything way down. At the time of
the creation of their spec car car the CART boys were much faster.

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

On Jun 25, 8:50 pm, ">G< ©" <jimmyga...@gmail,com > wrote:
> Chuck Steak wrote:
> > In article  jimmyga...@gmail,com wrote:
> >> Chuck Steak wrote:
> >>> In article  jimmyga...@gmail,com wrote:
>
> >>>> Chuck Steak wrote:
> >>>>> Much like Daytona and Talladega are obsolete for today's stockers...
> >>>>> I mean really.
> >>>>> It's pretty silly to have such huge, banked tracks, if you have
> >>>>> to restrict the engines by as much as they do..
> >>>>> But.... unlike the SMI tracks, nothing will ever be done to improve them.
> >>>> using that same logic, which tracks frequented by open wheelers are now
> >>>> obsolete?
> >>> Should be taken up in an open wheel forum...
> >>> I'm talking about NASCAR...
>
> >> and you feel comfortable discussing NHRA tracks in a NASCAR forum...
>
> > I thought there was a difference between death/safety/expertise,
> > as opposed to comparing cars..
> > Your point is well taken though... you're right.
>
> > The Kalitta story was more of a news item, and honestly,
> > I don't mind drifting from NASCAR if it's newsworthy.
> > But I do stay away from NASCAR/IRL/NHRA/ASA whatever comparisons
> > as a rule..
> > But to get to your point,
> > I don't recall IRL racing on Daytona and Talladega.
> > Does the IRL run restrictor plates at some tracks?
> > I don't see any connection between them both
> > running Richmond for instance.
>
> > Dan
> > ****************************************
> > When people say, 'can I ask you a question?',
> > you really don't have much of a choice...
>
> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have made
> the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>
> --
>
>   >G< ©

http :// sportsillustrated.cnn,com /motorsports/news/2001/04/29/cart cancel ap/

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

In article TS02_05champ <tonystewart02_05champ@yahoo,com > wrote:

stuff snipped:


I don't want to get into a pissing match about who does what,
but first, the CART guys pulled out of Texas, the IRL raced there...
And still does. Some of the best racing at that facility actually.

Second, in 1998, 10 years ago, and IRL car was around 700HP
Today, they are around 675HP

A cup motor is around 780HP
A plate motor is about 425HP

Nearly all racing series at some point or another,
screw with the motors, for one reason or another.
I was just saying that if a class has to reduce the power by nearly half
to race on a track, then the track is not up to the task.
The IRL cars, have never hacked the motors like NASCAR!


Dan
****************************************
When people say, 'can I ask you a question?',
you really don't have much of a choice...

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

Chuck Steak wrote:
> >
> Nearly all racing series at some point or another,
> screw with the motors, for one reason or another.
> I was just saying that if a class has to reduce the power by nearly
> half to race on a track, then the track is not up to the task.
> The IRL cars, have never hacked the motors like NASCAR!


OK, I'm gettin' where you're at now.
What'll these things do on the big tracks without a plate?
Fly?
I never liked plate racin' anyway.

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

On Jun 26, 4:25 pm, "YooperBoyka" <cjd...@likeno.spam> wrote:
> Chuck Steak wrote:
>
> > Nearly all racing series at some point or another,
> > screw with the motors, for one reason or another.
> > I was just saying that if a class has to reduce the power by nearly
> > half to race on a track, then the track is not up to the task.
> > The IRL cars, have never hacked the motors like NASCAR!
>
> OK, I'm gettin' where you're at now.
> What'll these things do on the big tracks without a plate?
> Fly?
> I never liked plate racin' anyway.

http :// www .caranddriver,com /news/car news/rusty runs unrestricted car news

I believe that Kurt Busch also tested a Cot at Daytona unrestricted.

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

Chuck Steak wrote:
>
> The IRL cars, have never hacked the motors like NASCAR!
>
>
>

That's because the IRL teams are required to use the same engine.

The IRL goes to Honda and tells them to reduce the power. These engines
are supplied to the teams. Teams can't screw with the spec engine.
Sorta like NASCAR is with the COT cars.

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

TS02 05champ wrote:
> On Jun 25, 8:50 pm, ">G< ©" <jimmyga...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> Chuck Steak wrote:
>>> In article jimmyga...@gmail,com wrote:
>>>> Chuck Steak wrote:
>>>>> In article jimmyga...@gmail,com wrote:
>>>>>> Chuck Steak wrote:
>>>>>>> Much like Daytona and Talladega are obsolete for today's stockers...
>>>>>>> I mean really.
>>>>>>> It's pretty silly to have such huge, banked tracks, if you have
>>>>>>> to restrict the engines by as much as they do..
>>>>>>> But.... unlike the SMI tracks, nothing will ever be done to improve them.
>>>>>> using that same logic, which tracks frequented by open wheelers are now
>>>>>> obsolete?
>>>>> Should be taken up in an open wheel forum...
>>>>> I'm talking about NASCAR...
>>>> and you feel comfortable discussing NHRA tracks in a NASCAR forum...
>>> I thought there was a difference between death/safety/expertise,
>>> as opposed to comparing cars..
>>> Your point is well taken though... you're right.
>>> The Kalitta story was more of a news item, and honestly,
>>> I don't mind drifting from NASCAR if it's newsworthy.
>>> But I do stay away from NASCAR/IRL/NHRA/ASA whatever comparisons
>>> as a rule..
>>> But to get to your point,
>>> I don't recall IRL racing on Daytona and Talladega.
>>> Does the IRL run restrictor plates at some tracks?
>>> I don't see any connection between them both
>>> running Richmond for instance.
>>> Dan
>>> ****************************************
>>> When people say, 'can I ask you a question?',
>>> you really don't have much of a choice...
>> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
>> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
>> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
>> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have made
>> the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>>
>> --
>>
>> >G< ©
>
> http :// sportsillustrated.cnn,com /motorsports/news/2001/04/29/cart cancel ap/

I new about the Texas incident before I posted. They came to Texas
fast. I'm speaking about established tracks the series' have been
running at for some time and experienced a 30 to 40mph increases in
speeds, tracks like Dan mentioned,Dega and Daytona, that he now
considers obsolete. They run at over 200mph at many tracks at some
point of the track in NASCAR and pointy cars, its just not allowed at
Daytona and Talladega...

--

>G< ©

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

>G< © wrote:
>
>
> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have made
> the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>

Well you're just not listening. CART had major problems at Michigan so
much so that they required a special wing to increase drag to slow the
cars. The danger was that the tires were coming apart at speed. IIRC,
that was in the late 80s or early 90s.

When CART tried to race at Texas a few years ago, they found that the
cars were too fast for the track and canceled the race. The danger was
the excessive g-forces on the drivers.

Even the IRL cars, which are significantly slower than CART cars, are
starting to get to the limits of some of their tracks.

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

Peaceful Bill wrote:
> >G< © wrote:
>>
>>
>> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
>> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
>> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
>> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have
>> made the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>>
>
> Well you're just not listening. CART had major problems at Michigan so
> much so that they required a special wing to increase drag to slow the
> cars. The danger was that the tires were coming apart at speed. IIRC,
> that was in the late 80s or early 90s.
>
> When CART tried to race at Texas a few years ago, they found that the
> cars were too fast for the track and canceled the race. The danger was
> the excessive g-forces on the drivers.
>
> Even the IRL cars, which are significantly slower than CART cars, are
> starting to get to the limits of some of their tracks.

I'm listening well.

"I've never heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy
cars have made the tracks they compete at obsolete. "

Please, point me to the quote!

--

>G< ©

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

>G< © wrote:
> Peaceful Bill wrote:
>> >G< © wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
>>> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
>>> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
>>> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have
>>> made the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>>>
>>
>> Well you're just not listening. CART had major problems at Michigan
>> so much so that they required a special wing to increase drag to slow
>> the cars. The danger was that the tires were coming apart at speed.
>> IIRC, that was in the late 80s or early 90s.
>>
>> When CART tried to race at Texas a few years ago, they found that the
>> cars were too fast for the track and canceled the race. The danger
>> was the excessive g-forces on the drivers.
>>
>> Even the IRL cars, which are significantly slower than CART cars, are
>> starting to get to the limits of some of their tracks.
>
> I'm listening well.
>
> "I've never heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy
> cars have made the tracks they compete at obsolete. "
>
> Please, point me to the quote!
>

Its such an old story that it predates internet posting. Its one of the
reasons the IRL was created. The CART cars were considered too fast.

The IRL is currently trying to figure out how to slow their cars without
making wholesale changes to their spec / formula.

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

Peaceful Bill wrote:
> >G< © wrote:
>> Peaceful Bill wrote:
>>> >G< © wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
>>>> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more so
>>>> that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've never
>>>> heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy cars have
>>>> made the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well you're just not listening. CART had major problems at Michigan
>>> so much so that they required a special wing to increase drag to slow
>>> the cars. The danger was that the tires were coming apart at speed.
>>> IIRC, that was in the late 80s or early 90s.
>>>
>>> When CART tried to race at Texas a few years ago, they found that the
>>> cars were too fast for the track and canceled the race. The danger
>>> was the excessive g-forces on the drivers.
>>>
>>> Even the IRL cars, which are significantly slower than CART cars, are
>>> starting to get to the limits of some of their tracks.
>>
>> I'm listening well.
>>
>> "I've never heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy
>> cars have made the tracks they compete at obsolete. "
>>
>> Please, point me to the quote!
>>
>
> Its such an old story that it predates internet posting. Its one of the
> reasons the IRL was created. The CART cars were considered too fast.
>
> The IRL is currently trying to figure out how to slow their cars without
> making wholesale changes to their spec / formula.


are you a genuine idiot or just play one on line?

Re: Scott Kalitta Fatal Crash Video

SG wrote:
> Peaceful Bill wrote:
>> >G< © wrote:
>>> Peaceful Bill wrote:
>>>> >G< © wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was trying to bring out that even though the pointy cars are much
>>>>> faster at every venue they compete at than ever before, even more
>>>>> so that cup cars have increased in speeds for the most part, I've
>>>>> never heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy
>>>>> cars have made the tracks they compete at obsolete.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well you're just not listening. CART had major problems at Michigan
>>>> so much so that they required a special wing to increase drag to
>>>> slow the cars. The danger was that the tires were coming apart at
>>>> speed. IIRC, that was in the late 80s or early 90s.
>>>>
>>>> When CART tried to race at Texas a few years ago, they found that
>>>> the cars were too fast for the track and canceled the race. The
>>>> danger was the excessive g-forces on the drivers.
>>>>
>>>> Even the IRL cars, which are significantly slower than CART cars,
>>>> are starting to get to the limits of some of their tracks.
>>>
>>> I'm listening well.
>>>
>>> "I've never heard anyone mention the increase in speeds of the pointy
>>> cars have made the tracks they compete at obsolete. "
>>>
>>> Please, point me to the quote!
>>>
>>
>> Its such an old story that it predates internet posting. Its one of
>> the reasons the IRL was created. The CART cars were considered too fast.
>>
>> The IRL is currently trying to figure out how to slow their cars
>> without making wholesale changes to their spec / formula.
>
>
> are you a genuine idiot or just play one on line?

If I were an idiot, I'd respond to messages exactly like you do.