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a thought on altenators
a thought on altenators
In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
pump belts.
What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
pulley.
John
In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
pump belts.
What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
pulley.
John
Re: a thought on altenators
"John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A8D7FC91DE6Fpogosupernews@216.168.3.30...
> In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
> were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
> the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
> pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
> altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
> pump belts.
>
> What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
> this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
> to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
> that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
> shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
> pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
> pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
> pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
> pulley.
>
I like that idea John. I would have thought that for this race, they would
have simply put the alternator pulley on the outside, in order to get at it
easier, but you idea is even better.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net
"John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A8D7FC91DE6Fpogosupernews@216.168.3.30...
> In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
> were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
> the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
> pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
> altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
> pump belts.
>
> What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
> this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
> to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
> that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
> shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
> pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
> pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
> pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
> pulley.
>
I like that idea John. I would have thought that for this race, they would
have simply put the alternator pulley on the outside, in order to get at it
easier, but you idea is even better.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net
Re: a thought on altenators
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net > wrote in
news:3d50d$4814c9d5$6215af4f$19575@ALLTEL,net :
> I would have thought that for this race, they
> would have simply put the alternator pulley on the outside, in order
> to get at it easier,
That thought occured to me too. I think there's a couple of reasons
why they might not want to do that, tho.
One is that if you resequenced the pulleys, you'd have to move the
power steering and, more significantly, the oil pumps to line up
with their pulleys. There's a lot of plumbing with the oil pump
which is pretty critical, and they might not want to mess with
that.
If they just fitted the altenator with a long shaft, or moved it
forward on long brackets, to allow it's belt to be outermost, you
might run into clearance issues with the radiator, or mess up the
under hood aero (which is important, since it's one of the few
areas the teams can work on to make improvements).
As it happened, it seems that if you can pit under yellow there's
no issue with installing the belt, since Nemechek's crew managed
to do so with two stops under the first yellow. So perhaps it's
not as big as issue as Hammond expected.
John
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net > wrote in
news:3d50d$4814c9d5$6215af4f$19575@ALLTEL,net :
> I would have thought that for this race, they
> would have simply put the alternator pulley on the outside, in order
> to get at it easier,
That thought occured to me too. I think there's a couple of reasons
why they might not want to do that, tho.
One is that if you resequenced the pulleys, you'd have to move the
power steering and, more significantly, the oil pumps to line up
with their pulleys. There's a lot of plumbing with the oil pump
which is pretty critical, and they might not want to mess with
that.
If they just fitted the altenator with a long shaft, or moved it
forward on long brackets, to allow it's belt to be outermost, you
might run into clearance issues with the radiator, or mess up the
under hood aero (which is important, since it's one of the few
areas the teams can work on to make improvements).
As it happened, it seems that if you can pit under yellow there's
no issue with installing the belt, since Nemechek's crew managed
to do so with two stops under the first yellow. So perhaps it's
not as big as issue as Hammond expected.
John
Re: a thought on altenators
"John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A8DBB8DDB1F0pogosupernews@216.168.3.30...
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net > wrote in
> news:3d50d$4814c9d5$6215af4f$19575@ALLTEL,net :
>
>> I would have thought that for this race, they
>> would have simply put the alternator pulley on the outside, in order
>> to get at it easier,
>
> That thought occured to me too. I think there's a couple of reasons
> why they might not want to do that, tho.
>
> One is that if you resequenced the pulleys, you'd have to move the
> power steering and, more significantly, the oil pumps to line up
> with their pulleys. There's a lot of plumbing with the oil pump
> which is pretty critical, and they might not want to mess with
> that.
>
> If they just fitted the altenator with a long shaft, or moved it
> forward on long brackets, to allow it's belt to be outermost, you
> might run into clearance issues with the radiator, or mess up the
> under hood aero (which is important, since it's one of the few
> areas the teams can work on to make improvements).
>
> As it happened, it seems that if you can pit under yellow there's
> no issue with installing the belt, since Nemechek's crew managed
> to do so with two stops under the first yellow. So perhaps it's
> not as big as issue as Hammond expected.
>
> John
I've often thought that a system similar to the A/C system would be ideal.
With an electric clutch that can be disengaged at will. Who after all needs
an alternator for the last 30 or so laps of a race? I like the idea of a
key though as well.
Mike
>
>
"John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A8DBB8DDB1F0pogosupernews@216.168.3.30...
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel,net > wrote in
> news:3d50d$4814c9d5$6215af4f$19575@ALLTEL,net :
>
>> I would have thought that for this race, they
>> would have simply put the alternator pulley on the outside, in order
>> to get at it easier,
>
> That thought occured to me too. I think there's a couple of reasons
> why they might not want to do that, tho.
>
> One is that if you resequenced the pulleys, you'd have to move the
> power steering and, more significantly, the oil pumps to line up
> with their pulleys. There's a lot of plumbing with the oil pump
> which is pretty critical, and they might not want to mess with
> that.
>
> If they just fitted the altenator with a long shaft, or moved it
> forward on long brackets, to allow it's belt to be outermost, you
> might run into clearance issues with the radiator, or mess up the
> under hood aero (which is important, since it's one of the few
> areas the teams can work on to make improvements).
>
> As it happened, it seems that if you can pit under yellow there's
> no issue with installing the belt, since Nemechek's crew managed
> to do so with two stops under the first yellow. So perhaps it's
> not as big as issue as Hammond expected.
>
> John
I've often thought that a system similar to the A/C system would be ideal.
With an electric clutch that can be disengaged at will. Who after all needs
an alternator for the last 30 or so laps of a race? I like the idea of a
key though as well.
Mike
>
>
Re: a thought on altenators
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:33:50 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote in <U76dnSL6u5bytIjVnZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@yhti>:
>I've often thought that a system similar to the A/C system would be ideal.
>With an electric clutch that can be disengaged at will. Who after all needs
>an alternator for the last 30 or so laps of a race?
I've wondered about that, too.
> I like the idea of a
>key though as well.
Do they turn off the engine when they put on
a belt?
Wouldn't they have to turn it off to set
a key?
Marty
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On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:33:50 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote in <U76dnSL6u5bytIjVnZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@yhti>:
>I've often thought that a system similar to the A/C system would be ideal.
>With an electric clutch that can be disengaged at will. Who after all needs
>an alternator for the last 30 or so laps of a race?
I've wondered about that, too.
> I like the idea of a
>key though as well.
Do they turn off the engine when they put on
a belt?
Wouldn't they have to turn it off to set
a key?
Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http :// www .big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.
Re: a thought on altenators
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in message
news:WbGdnSLbs5Iys4jVnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@supernews,com ...
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:33:50 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote
> in <U76dnSL6u5bytIjVnZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@yhti>:
>
>>I've often thought that a system similar to the A/C system would be ideal.
>>With an electric clutch that can be disengaged at will. Who after all
>>needs
>>an alternator for the last 30 or so laps of a race?
>
> I've wondered about that, too.
>
>> I like the idea of a
>>key though as well.
>
> Do they turn off the engine when they put on
> a belt?
>
> Wouldn't they have to turn it off to set
> a key?
yup!
Mike
"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in message
news:WbGdnSLbs5Iys4jVnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@supernews,com ...
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:33:50 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote
> in <U76dnSL6u5bytIjVnZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@yhti>:
>
>>I've often thought that a system similar to the A/C system would be ideal.
>>With an electric clutch that can be disengaged at will. Who after all
>>needs
>>an alternator for the last 30 or so laps of a race?
>
> I've wondered about that, too.
>
>> I like the idea of a
>>key though as well.
>
> Do they turn off the engine when they put on
> a belt?
>
> Wouldn't they have to turn it off to set
> a key?
yup!
Mike
Re: a thought on altenators
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:10:41 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com >
wrote:
>In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
>were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
>the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
>pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
>altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
>pump belts.
>
>What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
>this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
>to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
>that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
>shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
>pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
>pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
>pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
>pulley.
Would NASCAR let you do that?? It seems that they might consider that
an unauthorized equipment modification. I'd also be a bit worried
about that pin coming out or breaking during the race.
Tom S.
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:10:41 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com >
wrote:
>In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
>were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
>the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
>pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
>altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
>pump belts.
>
>What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
>this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
>to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
>that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
>shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
>pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
>pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
>pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
>pulley.
Would NASCAR let you do that?? It seems that they might consider that
an unauthorized equipment modification. I'd also be a bit worried
about that pin coming out or breaking during the race.
Tom S.
Re: a thought on altenators
"Tom S." <tscalfjr@cox,net > wrote in message
news:r6ia14tnbneilj0g5k06oeasfu6mqek17d@4ax,com ...
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:10:41 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com >
> wrote:
>
>>In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
>>were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
>>the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
>>pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
>>altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
>>pump belts.
>>
>>What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
>>this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
>>to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
>>that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
>>shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
>>pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
>>pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
>>pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
>>pulley.
>
> Would NASCAR let you do that?? It seems that they might consider that
> an unauthorized equipment modification. I'd also be a bit worried
> about that pin coming out or breaking during the race.
>
> Tom S.
I wouldn't be worried about breakage, after all the woodruff key is an
ancient mechanical concept. I would be concerned with the time it takes to
do so in the pits given that mechanical things are quite uncoperative when
when is in a hurry
Mike
>
"Tom S." <tscalfjr@cox,net > wrote in message
news:r6ia14tnbneilj0g5k06oeasfu6mqek17d@4ax,com ...
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:10:41 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com >
> wrote:
>
>>In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
>>were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
>>the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
>>pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
>>altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
>>pump belts.
>>
>>What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
>>this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
>>to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
>>that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
>>shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
>>pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
>>pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
>>pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
>>pulley.
>
> Would NASCAR let you do that?? It seems that they might consider that
> an unauthorized equipment modification. I'd also be a bit worried
> about that pin coming out or breaking during the race.
>
> Tom S.
I wouldn't be worried about breakage, after all the woodruff key is an
ancient mechanical concept. I would be concerned with the time it takes to
do so in the pits given that mechanical things are quite uncoperative when
when is in a hurry
Mike
>
Re: a thought on altenators
On Apr 27, 11:44 pm, "Mike Simmons" <mike...@yhti,net > wrote:
> "Tom S." <tscal...@cox,net > wrote in message
>
> news:r6ia14tnbneilj0g5k06oeasfu6mqek17d@4ax,com ...
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:10:41 CST, John McCoy <igop...@ix,net com,com >
> > wrote:
>
> >>In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
> >>were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
> >>the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
> >>pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
> >>altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
> >>pump belts.
>
> >>What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
> >>this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
> >>to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
> >>that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
> >>shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
> >>pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
> >>pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
> >>pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
> >>pulley.
>
> > Would NASCAR let you do that?? It seems that they might consider that
> > an unauthorized equipment modification. I'd also be a bit worried
> > about that pin coming out or breaking during the race.
>
> > Tom S.
>
> I wouldn't be worried about breakage, after all the woodruff key is an
> ancient mechanical concept. I would be concerned with the time it takes to
> do so in the pits given that mechanical things are quite uncoperative when
> when is in a hurry
>
> Mike
>
>
I like your guys innovation on this subject. When I raced we didn't
used alternators or power steering to save on weight and free up
horsepower. Except for the fact that the division we ran in was stock/
superstock I would have done even more, but you can only go so far.
I would think that nascar would also see it the same way, you can only
go so far and deem such mods as not in accordance with the rules etc
etc etc.
I like some of the thoughts here though, some are keepers. Refine
them, hone them, see if they work in you local division.
On Apr 27, 11:44 pm, "Mike Simmons" <mike...@yhti,net > wrote:
> "Tom S." <tscal...@cox,net > wrote in message
>
> news:r6ia14tnbneilj0g5k06oeasfu6mqek17d@4ax,com ...
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:10:41 CST, John McCoy <igop...@ix,net com,com >
> > wrote:
>
> >>In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the go-or-go-home cars
> >>were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing
> >>the drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first
> >>pitstop. This, he showed, was going to be tricky because the
> >>altenator is the innermost belt, behind the oil pump and powersteering
> >>pump belts.
>
> >>What I think I'd have done, where I a crew chief and had thought about
> >>this before the race (as I should have done) is get my pulley supplier
> >>to make me one with a longer & wider central boss. Then I'd machine
> >>that out & press in a bearing, so the pulley could spin freely on the
> >>shaft of the altenator. Finally, I'd drill the boss & shaft for a
> >>pin similar to a hood pin. That way the belt could stay on the
> >>pulley and spin freely without turning the altenator, but on the
> >>pitstop I could quickly insert the pin to lock the shaft to the
> >>pulley.
>
> > Would NASCAR let you do that?? It seems that they might consider that
> > an unauthorized equipment modification. I'd also be a bit worried
> > about that pin coming out or breaking during the race.
>
> > Tom S.
>
> I wouldn't be worried about breakage, after all the woodruff key is an
> ancient mechanical concept. I would be concerned with the time it takes to
> do so in the pits given that mechanical things are quite uncoperative when
> when is in a hurry
>
> Mike
>
>
I like your guys innovation on this subject. When I raced we didn't
used alternators or power steering to save on weight and free up
horsepower. Except for the fact that the division we ran in was stock/
superstock I would have done even more, but you can only go so far.
I would think that nascar would also see it the same way, you can only
go so far and deem such mods as not in accordance with the rules etc
etc etc.
I like some of the thoughts here though, some are keepers. Refine
them, hone them, see if they work in you local division.
Re: a thought on altenators
John McCoy wrote: In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the
go-or-go-home cars
were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing the
drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first pitstop.<<<<
There would be no advantage to unhooking the altenator that I can see.
The only time the altenator uses much horsepower is when the battery is low.
The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the battery is at full
charge.
Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½ HP.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
John McCoy wrote: In qualifying, Hammond mentioned that some of the
go-or-go-home cars
were planning to remove the altenator belt, to gain power by removing the
drag of the altenator, and then replace the belt on the first pitstop.<<<<
There would be no advantage to unhooking the altenator that I can see.
The only time the altenator uses much horsepower is when the battery is low.
The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the battery is at full
charge.
Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½ HP.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
Re: a thought on altenators
In article "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote:
>There would be no advantage to unhooking the altenator that I can see.
>The only time the altenator uses much horsepower is when the battery is low.
>The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the battery is at full
>charge.
>Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½ HP.
The alternator uses a lot more than 1/2 horsepower..
And it also has drag... from the belt, as well as the cooling fins.
Plus, the battery is not at full charge when it hits the track..
It takes about 5 minutes to get the battery charge back up, after starting.
So the alternator is going to be "on" the instant you start the engine.
These teams were spending millions in r&d to gain a couple of hp
after the "normal" engine stuff was done, when they started plate racing.
If they were spending that much, to gain one, then certainly they'd
remove the belt for free......
Dan
****************************************
The best thing to give someone
is a chance....
In article "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote:
>There would be no advantage to unhooking the altenator that I can see.
>The only time the altenator uses much horsepower is when the battery is low.
>The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the battery is at full
>charge.
>Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½ HP.
The alternator uses a lot more than 1/2 horsepower..
And it also has drag... from the belt, as well as the cooling fins.
Plus, the battery is not at full charge when it hits the track..
It takes about 5 minutes to get the battery charge back up, after starting.
So the alternator is going to be "on" the instant you start the engine.
These teams were spending millions in r&d to gain a couple of hp
after the "normal" engine stuff was done, when they started plate racing.
If they were spending that much, to gain one, then certainly they'd
remove the belt for free......
Dan
****************************************
The best thing to give someone
is a chance....
Re: a thought on altenators
chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in
news:vKwRj.227$1m3.91@trndny02:
> In article "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote:
>
>
>>There would be no advantage to unhooking the altenator that I can see.
>>The only time the altenator uses much horsepower is when the battery
>>is low. The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the
>>battery is at full charge.
>>Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½
>>HP.
>
> The alternator uses a lot more than 1/2 horsepower..
> And it also has drag... from the belt, as well as the cooling fins.
> Plus, the battery is not at full charge when it hits the track..
> It takes about 5 minutes to get the battery charge back up, after
> starting. So the alternator is going to be "on" the instant you start
> the engine.
Yeah - bear in mind that the altenator, if it's connected, is
basically carrying the whole electrical load of the car - the
ignition, charging the battery, running any blowers which might
be on, etc. Plus there's some energy lost as heat in the
regulator (can be quite a bit at high RPM), plus as you say
the mechanical drag of spinning the thing. I'd guess the
alternator could be 3 hp or so.
Since we're talking plate motors here, that'd be the difference
between maybe 450 and 453 hp. Not quite 1%. But 1% in time,
in qualifying, would be 0.5 sec, which would be the difference
between pole and ~14th.
John
chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in
news:vKwRj.227$1m3.91@trndny02:
> In article "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote:
>
>
>>There would be no advantage to unhooking the altenator that I can see.
>>The only time the altenator uses much horsepower is when the battery
>>is low. The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the
>>battery is at full charge.
>>Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½
>>HP.
>
> The alternator uses a lot more than 1/2 horsepower..
> And it also has drag... from the belt, as well as the cooling fins.
> Plus, the battery is not at full charge when it hits the track..
> It takes about 5 minutes to get the battery charge back up, after
> starting. So the alternator is going to be "on" the instant you start
> the engine.
Yeah - bear in mind that the altenator, if it's connected, is
basically carrying the whole electrical load of the car - the
ignition, charging the battery, running any blowers which might
be on, etc. Plus there's some energy lost as heat in the
regulator (can be quite a bit at high RPM), plus as you say
the mechanical drag of spinning the thing. I'd guess the
alternator could be 3 hp or so.
Since we're talking plate motors here, that'd be the difference
between maybe 450 and 453 hp. Not quite 1%. But 1% in time,
in qualifying, would be 0.5 sec, which would be the difference
between pole and ~14th.
John
Re: a thought on altenators
In article John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote:
>chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in
>> In article "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote:
>>>is low. The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the
>>>battery is at full charge.
>>>Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½
>>>HP.
>> The alternator uses a lot more than 1/2 horsepower..
>> And it also has drag... from the belt, as well as the cooling fins.
>> Plus, the battery is not at full charge when it hits the track..
>> It takes about 5 minutes to get the battery charge back up, after
>> starting. So the alternator is going to be "on" the instant you start
>> the engine.
>Yeah - bear in mind that the altenator, if it's connected, is
>basically carrying the whole electrical load of the car - the
>ignition, charging the battery, running any blowers which might
>be on, etc. Plus there's some energy lost as heat in the
>regulator (can be quite a bit at high RPM), plus as you say
>the mechanical drag of spinning the thing. I'd guess the
>alternator could be 3 hp or so.
>
>Since we're talking plate motors here, that'd be the difference
>between maybe 450 and 453 hp. Not quite 1%. But 1% in time,
>in qualifying, would be 0.5 sec, which would be the difference
>between pole and ~14th.
>
>John
I think it's close to 1 hp per 25 amp output
And the alternators they use today are BIG output.
So, imo, your 3hp is a pretty close number... but still conservative..
Dan
****************************************
The best thing to give someone
is a chance....
In article John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote:
>chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in
>> In article "JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote:
>>>is low. The altenator can't use more than a ½ horsepower if the
>>>battery is at full charge.
>>>Don't tell me a driver can tell the difference between 800 HP and 799½
>>>HP.
>> The alternator uses a lot more than 1/2 horsepower..
>> And it also has drag... from the belt, as well as the cooling fins.
>> Plus, the battery is not at full charge when it hits the track..
>> It takes about 5 minutes to get the battery charge back up, after
>> starting. So the alternator is going to be "on" the instant you start
>> the engine.
>Yeah - bear in mind that the altenator, if it's connected, is
>basically carrying the whole electrical load of the car - the
>ignition, charging the battery, running any blowers which might
>be on, etc. Plus there's some energy lost as heat in the
>regulator (can be quite a bit at high RPM), plus as you say
>the mechanical drag of spinning the thing. I'd guess the
>alternator could be 3 hp or so.
>
>Since we're talking plate motors here, that'd be the difference
>between maybe 450 and 453 hp. Not quite 1%. But 1% in time,
>in qualifying, would be 0.5 sec, which would be the difference
>between pole and ~14th.
>
>John
I think it's close to 1 hp per 25 amp output
And the alternators they use today are BIG output.
So, imo, your 3hp is a pretty close number... but still conservative..
Dan
****************************************
The best thing to give someone
is a chance....
Re: a thought on altenators
Chuck Steak wrote: I think it's close to 1 hp per 25 amp output And the
alternators they use today are BIG output. So, imo, your 3hp is a pretty
close number... but still conservative..
OK, then if it's 3 HP it might be worth it.
Why can't they just have a switch to disconnect the exciter on the altenator
?
Flicking the switch back on would be a lot faster and easier than trying to
put on a belt during a pit stop.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
Chuck Steak wrote: I think it's close to 1 hp per 25 amp output And the
alternators they use today are BIG output. So, imo, your 3hp is a pretty
close number... but still conservative..
OK, then if it's 3 HP it might be worth it.
Why can't they just have a switch to disconnect the exciter on the altenator
?
Flicking the switch back on would be a lot faster and easier than trying to
put on a belt during a pit stop.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
Re: a thought on altenators
"JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote in
news:481a6ea5$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner,com :
> OK, then if it's 3 HP it might be worth it.
> Why can't they just have a switch to disconnect the exciter on the
> altenator ?
> Flicking the switch back on would be a lot faster and easier than
> trying to put on a belt during a pit stop.
One reason is that most alternators today all that is internal and
inacessible. There's just the one wire coming out. The rationale
for one-wire alternators is that they're more reliable, so you
probably wouldn't want to go to the expense of having someone build
you a special one that you could switch on & off.
The second reason would be that even with the excitation removed,
you'd still have some mechanical drag spinning the thing around.
John
"JerryD\(upstateNY\)" <jerryd@rochester.rr,com > wrote in
news:481a6ea5$0$3369$4c368faf@roadrunner,com :
> OK, then if it's 3 HP it might be worth it.
> Why can't they just have a switch to disconnect the exciter on the
> altenator ?
> Flicking the switch back on would be a lot faster and easier than
> trying to put on a belt during a pit stop.
One reason is that most alternators today all that is internal and
inacessible. There's just the one wire coming out. The rationale
for one-wire alternators is that they're more reliable, so you
probably wouldn't want to go to the expense of having someone build
you a special one that you could switch on & off.
The second reason would be that even with the excitation removed,
you'd still have some mechanical drag spinning the thing around.
John
