Simmons - RPG - Richmond 08 - 2/18

Simmons - RPG - Richmond 08 - 2/18


Top Five (in no particular order)

Newman -0
Ky Busch - 1
Stewart - 1
Johnson - 0
Earnhardt - 0

Winner: Earnhardt (coulda, shoulda, woulda <sigh>

I know I'll be kicking myse'f since I didn't include any Roush Ferds. My
hunch paid off fer a change!


I haven't watched the race, but I heard that KyBu punted Jr in the last four
laps..... ewww ww... that's livin' dangerously.

Mike

Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?

On Sun, 4 May 2008 19:54:03 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote in <bPWdnd9bne8Cx4PVnZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@yhti>:

>I haven't watched the race, but I heard that KyBu punted Jr in the last four
>laps..... ewww ww... that's livin' dangerously.

I've changed the subject line.

I think it's something worth discussing in its own
right.

I saw the incident live, then watched the in-race
replays with lively interest.

Looks to me like both drivers contributed.

It ***SEEMS*** to me that Jr. held a lower line
than he had in previous laps.

Kyle ***SEEMS*** to me to have gone into the
corner too hard, got loose, and "corrected"
into Jr. (That's how the announcers presented
some of the replays.)

Both drivers wanted to win.

Both took a line that (arguably and in the
abstract) gave them their best shot at winning.

It didn't work.

I can't tell whether my impression that Jr.
came down toward Kyle is real or whether it is
an optical illusion. IF Jr. had taken a slightly
higher line, would Kyle have gotten loose?
Would there have been room for Kyle to wiggle
and straighten out without touching Jr.?
I certainly don't know.

I feel bad for both of them--and for Hamlin,
too!

That said, I was happy enough to see Clint
Bowyer and RCR win. It pays to stick around
for the last laps. :-O

Dave Rodman says it was a "no fault" accident:

< http :// www .nascar,com /2008/news/opinion/05/04/dearnhardtjr.kybusch.richmond.drodman/index.html>

Marty
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Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?


"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in message
news:U9SdnVmn1MZD-oPVnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews,com ...
> On Sun, 4 May 2008 19:54:03 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote
> in <bPWdnd9bne8Cx4PVnZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@yhti>:
>
>>I haven't watched the race, but I heard that KyBu punted Jr in the last
>>four
>>laps..... ewww ww... that's livin' dangerously.
>
> I've changed the subject line.
>
> I think it's something worth discussing in its own
> right.
>
> I saw the incident live, then watched the in-race
> replays with lively interest.
>
> Looks to me like both drivers contributed.
>
> It ***SEEMS*** to me that Jr. held a lower line
> than he had in previous laps.
>
> Kyle ***SEEMS*** to me to have gone into the
> corner too hard, got loose, and "corrected"
> into Jr. (That's how the announcers presented
> some of the replays.)
>
> Both drivers wanted to win.
>
> Both took a line that (arguably and in the
> abstract) gave them their best shot at winning.
>
> It didn't work.
>
> I can't tell whether my impression that Jr.
> came down toward Kyle is real or whether it is
> an optical illusion. IF Jr. had taken a slightly
> higher line, would Kyle have gotten loose?
> Would there have been room for Kyle to wiggle
> and straighten out without touching Jr.?
> I certainly don't know.
>
> I feel bad for both of them--and for Hamlin,
> too!
>
> That said, I was happy enough to see Clint
> Bowyer and RCR win. It pays to stick around
> for the last laps. :-O


After watching the replay, I have to agree Marty, that both parties
contributed about equally to the crash. I doubt however that the KyBu
haters and Jr. lovers will see it that way. IF KyBu did it intentionally it
was not an overt move. KyBu's reputation however carries a lot of weight in
making a judgment on the incident if one doesn't dispassionately view the
replay.

Mike

Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in
news:U9SdnVmn1MZD-oPVnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews,com :

> Looks to me like both drivers contributed.
>
> It ***SEEMS*** to me that Jr. held a lower line
> than he had in previous laps.
>
> Kyle ***SEEMS*** to me to have gone into the
> corner too hard, got loose, and "corrected"
> into Jr. (That's how the announcers presented
> some of the replays.)
>
> Both drivers wanted to win.
>
> Both took a line that (arguably and in the
> abstract) gave them their best shot at winning.

Keep. One of them racing deals - the one guy tried to force
the other to back off a little, and the other guy didn't back
off when he needed to. End result is both loose. Sometimes
that happens.

Now, a more interesting subject is Waltrip versus Mears. Was
Mears being reckless trying to pass Waltrip the way he did,
when he was 2 laps ahead of Waltrip, or should he have used
more patience? Was Waltrip's hissy fit a harmless release of
temper, or a stupid dangerous act that could have had serious
consequences?

FWIW, I think Mears probably lacked patience. However, I have
heard elsewhere both that Waltrip had blocked him for a couple
of laps (a stupid move on Waltrip's part, if true; the boy needs
to learn not to race guys who aren't on his lap); I have also
heard that Mears lost the right front tire which caused him to
veer into Waltrip. Dunno if either are true.

And, I think Waltrip's action was incredibly stupid and
dangerous, and deserves substantial punishment. Intentionally
running into a car which has hit the wall (and which may
contain an injured driver) is idiotic, and not in any way
comparable to banging fenders on a running car to show your
displeasure. To my mind, far worse than Gunselman's error
in judgement in the Dega Nationwide race.

John

Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?


"John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
news:Xns9A95BCE72C333pogosupernews@216.168.3.30...
> "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in
> news:U9SdnVmn1MZD-oPVnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews,com :
>
>
> Now, a more interesting subject is Waltrip versus Mears. Was
> Mears being reckless trying to pass Waltrip the way he did,
> when he was 2 laps ahead of Waltrip, or should he have used
> more patience? Was Waltrip's hissy fit a harmless release of
> temper, or a stupid dangerous act that could have had serious
> consequences?
>

IIRC, Waltrip was passing Mears. Mikey had pitted not long before the crash,
so he had *much* fresher tires than Mears.

Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?

"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in
news:dvednTyk29mIEb3VnZ2dnUVZ_vyinZ2d@giganews,com :

>
> "John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in message
> news:Xns9A95BCE72C333pogosupernews@216.168.3.30...
>> "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in
>> news:U9SdnVmn1MZD-oPVnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@supernews,com :
>>
>>
>> Now, a more interesting subject is Waltrip versus Mears. Was
>> Mears being reckless trying to pass Waltrip the way he did,
>> when he was 2 laps ahead of Waltrip, or should he have used
>> more patience? Was Waltrip's hissy fit a harmless release of
>> temper, or a stupid dangerous act that could have had serious
>> consequences?
>>
>
> IIRC, Waltrip was passing Mears. Mikey had pitted not long before the
> crash, so he had *much* fresher tires than Mears.

Hmm, it appeared to me that Mears was passing Waltrip, but you
may be right, it may have been that Waltrip was passing Mears
on the outside. I don't recall that the replay started early
enough in the incident to be clear.

It doesn't really change the point, tho - whether Mears was
trying to pass Waltrip or trying not to be passed by him, they
were 2 laps apart, so the pass wouldn't have made much difference.
So one could argue that Mears would have been the wiser to ease
up a bit and let Waltrip go, rather than driving hard and (as
happened) slipping up across Waltrip's nose into the wall.

John

Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?

On Tue, 6 May 2008 21:40:52 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in <Xns9A96E1298A45pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:

>Hmm, it appeared to me that Mears was passing Waltrip, but you
>may be right, it may have been that Waltrip was passing Mears
>on the outside.

CM was out in front of MW.

MW was moving up right quick.

As MW got his nose about 1/3 of the way up CM's right side,
CM drifted up and into MW.

Total blind spot/spotter failure, I'd say.

Then MW tailgated in no uncertain terms.

Not smart--but he seems to have gotten away
with it.

>So one could argue that Mears would have been the wiser to ease
>up a bit and let Waltrip go, rather than driving hard and (as
>happened) slipping up across Waltrip's nose into the wall.

I don't think he ever saw him coming or did any "thinking"
about how to deal with him. <totally amateur guess>

Marty
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Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?


"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in message
news:OKmdncU7q9AVp7zVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@supernews,com ...
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 21:40:52 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote
> in <Xns9A96E1298A45pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:
>
>>Hmm, it appeared to me that Mears was passing Waltrip, but you
>>may be right, it may have been that Waltrip was passing Mears
>>on the outside.
>
> CM was out in front of MW.
>
> MW was moving up right quick.
>
> As MW got his nose about 1/3 of the way up CM's right side,
> CM drifted up and into MW.
>
> Total blind spot/spotter failure, I'd say.
>
> Then MW tailgated in no uncertain terms.
>
> Not smart--but he seems to have gotten away
> with it.
>
>>So one could argue that Mears would have been the wiser to ease
>>up a bit and let Waltrip go, rather than driving hard and (as
>>happened) slipping up across Waltrip's nose into the wall.
>
> I don't think he ever saw him coming or did any "thinking"
> about how to deal with him. <totally amateur guess>
>

I read somewhere that Mears was having radio issues and didn't know Mikey
was anywhere near him. Makes sense, considering how obstucted a driver's
view is now with the headrests, etc. in the way.

Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?


"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:QMGdnRpnEv3wKrzVnZ2dnUVZ_remnZ2d@giganews,com ...
>
> "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in message
> news:OKmdncU7q9AVp7zVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@supernews,com ...
>> On Tue, 6 May 2008 21:40:52 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com >
>> wrote in <Xns9A96E1298A45pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:
>>
>>>Hmm, it appeared to me that Mears was passing Waltrip, but you
>>>may be right, it may have been that Waltrip was passing Mears
>>>on the outside.
>>
>> CM was out in front of MW.
>>
>> MW was moving up right quick.
>>
>> As MW got his nose about 1/3 of the way up CM's right side,
>> CM drifted up and into MW.
>>
>> Total blind spot/spotter failure, I'd say.
>>
>> Then MW tailgated in no uncertain terms.
>>
>> Not smart--but he seems to have gotten away
>> with it.
>>
>>>So one could argue that Mears would have been the wiser to ease
>>>up a bit and let Waltrip go, rather than driving hard and (as
>>>happened) slipping up across Waltrip's nose into the wall.
>>
>> I don't think he ever saw him coming or did any "thinking"
>> about how to deal with him. <totally amateur guess>
>>
>
> I read somewhere that Mears was having radio issues and didn't know Mikey
> was anywhere near him. Makes sense, considering how obstucted a driver's
> view is now with the headrests, etc. in the way.

Mears may have "wronged" Mikey in some way, but Mikey's hissy fit was
uncalled for IMHO.

Mike

>
>

Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?

On Wed, 7 May 2008 10:41:06 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote in <IoCdnZPlNbceULzVnZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@yhti>:

>Mears may have "wronged" Mikey in some way, but Mikey's hissy fit was
>uncalled for IMHO.

It's the kind of thing that I find both understandable
and inexcusable.

I'm afraid that I've indulged in rage more than I
ought to have. I know what it's like to "see red."

I think Mikey's got a whole lot of apologizing to do.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
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Re: Kyle Busch vs. DE Jr: Punt, Pass, or Kick?

"armpit" <armarmpitpit@yahoo,com > wrote in
news:QMGdnRpnEv3wKrzVnZ2dnUVZ_remnZ2d@giganews,com :

> I read somewhere that Mears was having radio issues and didn't know
> Mikey was anywhere near him. Makes sense, considering how obstucted a
> driver's view is now with the headrests, etc. in the way.

Yeah, that would explain the events, if Mears wasn't able to hear
his spotter.

That would pretty much take any blame from Mears, too. It's not
like you can expect a driver to anticipate that another guy that's
2 laps down to you will suddenly come ripping around your outside
going much faster than you are.

John