Montoya vs. Busch

Montoya vs. Busch

It's been remarkably quiet in here concerning the little dust-up
between Montoya and Kyle Busch. I was glad to hear Wally and Kyle
Petty say that Montoya was out of line to intentionally wreck someone
under caution.

He got a two lap penalty. He deserved more. That was completely
uncalled for.

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

On Jun 30, 2:45 pm, bob.pax...@gmail,com wrote:
> It's been remarkably quiet in here concerning the little dust-up
> between Montoya and Kyle Busch.  I was glad to hear Wally and Kyle
> Petty say that Montoya was out of line to intentionally wreck someone
> under caution.
>
> He got a two lap penalty.  He deserved more.  That was completely
> uncalled for.

I don't trust Kyle, though - he's always pretending he didn't do
anything wrong. He has been known to dish it out, running over
everyone in his way, but he certainly can't take it, at least so far.

I think it was a "racing deal." I know JPM is totally honest, but he
shouldn't have answered that question.

N.

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:46:55 CST, Nancy2 <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu> wrote in
<fd4d9a34-1dd2-4d5a-9d4e-52b3fd570f96@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups,com >:

> ... I think it was a "racing deal." I know JPM is totally honest, but he
>shouldn't have answered that question.

I saw the incident and the replays during the race.

I couldn't figure out what ticked Montoya off so badly.
If Kyle was banging on the side of Montoya, it was pretty
subtle compared to JPM's retaliation:

Montoya and Kyle Busch tangle: While trying to wreck #18-Kyle Busch on Sunday,
#42-Juan Pablo Montoya managed to wreck himself in the process near the end of
the Lenox Industrial Tools 301. And he did it during a caution. After a caution
flag flew with 21 laps to go, Montoya ran into the right-rear fender of Busch's
car. It caused Busch to spin and hit Montoya's car as Montoya was driving by.
"We always give each other lots of room," Montoya said of Busch. "But he went
wide like I wasn't there. Then I got beside him and he started banging me like
he was trying to wreck me. I looked at him like, 'What are you doing?' " Montoya
had no problem admitting he deliberately ran into Busch's car. "Yeah. I did what
he did to me," Montoya said. "I don't appreciate people who race me like that.
There's a fine line and he crossed it." Apparently, NASCAR officials felt the
same was about Montoya's retaliation move. He was assessed a two-lap penalty for
rough driving outside of race procedure. It dropped Montoya to 32nd in the
finishing order. Busch finished 25th, but still leads the Cup standings by 64
points over #31-Jeff Burton. So what caused the altercation with Montoya? "I
have no idea," Busch said. "I got a run on him earlier. I didn't turn down into
him. He ran me up the race track. The caution came out and he thought he had to
beat me. I touched his door and he spun me out. I don't know what his beef
is."(ESPN,com )(6-30-2008) http :// jayski,com /cupnews.htm#news18

I agree with Bob that JPM shouldn't have retaliated when
and as he did. But I don't think Kyle should be given any
more space on the track than he deserves.

What goes around comes around.

Marty
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Re: Montoya vs. Busch

bob.paxton@gmail,com wrote in news:b2c367a8-4880-4ef5-86e6-427e3a3de238
@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups,com :

> It's been remarkably quiet in here concerning the little dust-up
> between Montoya and Kyle Busch. I was glad to hear Wally and Kyle
> Petty say that Montoya was out of line to intentionally wreck someone
> under caution.
>
> He got a two lap penalty. He deserved more. That was completely
> uncalled for.

Well, unfortunately, we don't know what annoyed Montoya to start
it. I beleive they had been racing more or less together all
day, I'm guessing there'd probably been some incidents of slamming
the door or bumping fenders earlier.

As for the penalty, I think it was reasonable. I would not have
been bothered if there'd been no penalty, since Montoya had
effectively put himself out of contention anyway when Busch got
his right rear. I don't think spinning another car, at slow
speed under caution, is a particularly dangerous maneouver, so
while I don't want to see it happen every week I'm not especially
upset to see the occasional loss of temper.

John

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:36:19 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in <Xns9ACDB9F2FEFEpogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:

>Well, unfortunately, we don't know what annoyed Montoya to start
>it. ...

Busch pretty clearly whacks him in the side. Watch
the in-car camera:

< http :// video.google,com /videoplay?docid=-7598640904450515015&q=montoya+busch+nascar&ei=L2lpSNiHLpDQ4AKk0qzOAg&hl=en>

>I beleive they had been racing more or less together all
>day, I'm guessing there'd probably been some incidents of slamming
>the door or bumping fenders earlier.

Neither one mentioned earlier incidents. I haven't
seen or heard of other replays.

>As for the penalty, I think it was reasonable.

Agreed.

> ... I don't think spinning another car, at slow
>speed under caution, is a particularly dangerous maneouver ...

You never can tell who is going to get caught up in
your wreck. :o(

Marty
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Re: Montoya vs. Busch

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in
news:rKGdnVpApow09PTVnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@supernews,com :

> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:36:19 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com >
> wrote in <Xns9ACDB9F2FEFEpogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:
>
>>Well, unfortunately, we don't know what annoyed Montoya to start
>>it. ...
>
> Busch pretty clearly whacks him in the side. Watch
> the in-car camera:

I think you have missed the point. It's unlikely that one thump
was enough to make Montoya loose his temper. There must have
been more activity earlier in the day.

>> ... I don't think spinning another car, at slow
>>speed under caution, is a particularly dangerous maneouver ...
>
> You never can tell who is going to get caught up in
> your wreck. :o(

No, but whoever it might be will be in a car, going slowly. We've
seen drivers spin others at speed, and we've seen drivers spin
others in the pit road, both of which are significantly more
dangerous to 3rd parties unlucky enough to be involved.

John

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:14:09 CST, John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote in <Xns9ACEB8A5AF6C1pogosupernews@216.168.3.30>:

>> Busch pretty clearly whacks him in the side. Watch
>> the in-car camera:

>I think you have missed the point. It's unlikely that one thump
>was enough to make Montoya loose his temper. There must have
>been more activity earlier in the day.

I'm not denying that.

I think the sideswipe was the "last straw" for JPM.

Perhaps Kyle was trying to tell him that he shouldn't be
passing under yellow.

I doubt we'll know anything for sure this season. :o)

Marty

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Re: Montoya vs. Busch

Listening to JP's version on tv after the event, he didn't use any numbers,
but sure made it sound like Kyle hit him anywhere between 10 and 30 times
before that in the previous X laps. Interesting, though, that nobody else
noticed anything of the sort happening---hitting him that often you'd think
would get noticed, especially as much as the press tends to keep an eye on
ol' Rowdy. Or so I'd think, anyhow.

--pig


On 7/1/08 19:14, in article Xns9ACEB8A5AF6C1pogosupernews@216.168.3.30,
"John McCoy" <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote:

> I think you have missed the point. It's unlikely that one thump
> was enough to make Montoya loose his temper. There must have
> been more activity earlier in the day.

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

In article <C49047EB.61790%listpig@sbcglobal,net >, Megan Zurawicz <listpig@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>Listening to JP's version on tv after the event, he didn't use any numbers,
>but sure made it sound like Kyle hit him anywhere between 10 and 30 times
>before that in the previous X laps. Interesting, though, that nobody else
>noticed anything of the sort happening---hitting him that often you'd think
>would get noticed, especially as much as the press tends to keep an eye on
>ol' Rowdy. Or so I'd think, anyhow.
>
>--pig

Big thing is, there is a lot of banging, in stock car racing,
that doesn't always result in spinning people, something JPM hasn't
had a lot of experience with in open wheelers..
While it can get pretty aggrevating, it's something that does
happen a lot.
If JPM didn't ever get spun out, and all he did was just get roughed up,
then spinning a guy out (and yourself) under a caution,
is a tad over reacting... and saying you did it on purpose is just dumb.


Dan
****************************************
When people say, 'can I ask you a question?',
you really don't have much of a choice...

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:06:21 CST, chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in <ruLak.111$Z11.10@trndny05>:

>If JPM didn't ever get spun out, and all he did was just get roughed up,
>then spinning a guy out (and yourself) under a caution,
>is a tad over reacting ...

Agreed.

I think that's what the talent said right after
the accident happened--the very last few words
on the video:

< http :// video.google,com /videoplay?docid=-7598640904450515015&q=montoya+%22kyle+busch%22&ei=SKhrSPCqCp_k4AL7wsWgDw>

"That's about as intentional as you can get."

Very last words:

"Turning [in? into? at?] a guy and turning a guy are two
different things."

> ... and saying you did it on purpose is just dumb.

Or feisty, colorful, and courageous. :o)

Dollars to donuts, Kyle will think twice about turning
into Montoya in the future. I'm not saying he won't
DO it, just that it will be with malice aforethought.

Marty

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Re: Montoya vs. Busch

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in message
news:UvKdnTIT95A5NPbVnZ2dnUVZ jydnZ2d@supernews,com ...
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:06:21 CST, chuck steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak)
> wrote in <ruLak.111$Z11.10@trndny05>:
>
>>If JPM didn't ever get spun out, and all he did was just get roughed up,
>>then spinning a guy out (and yourself) under a caution,
>>is a tad over reacting ...
>
> Agreed.
>
> I think that's what the talent said right after
> the accident happened--the very last few words
> on the video:
>
> < http :// video.google,com /videoplay?docid=-7598640904450515015&q=montoya+%22kyle+busch%22&ei=SKhrSPCqCp k4AL7wsWgDw>
>
> "That's about as intentional as you can get."
>
> Very last words:
>
> "Turning [in? into? at?] a guy and turning a guy are two
> different things."
>
>> ... and saying you did it on purpose is just dumb.
>
> Or feisty, colorful, and courageous. :o)
>
> Dollars to donuts, Kyle will think twice about turning
> into Montoya in the future. I'm not saying he won't
> DO it, just that it will be with malice aforethought.
>

No he won't, Shrub very seldom *thinks* at all when driving. He is a seat
of the pants, gut reaction, go for the gusto, the world be damn'd, type of
racer and he can't be 'taught' to drive any other way. He won't have a
single hesitation of getting into JPM at any time at any future race.

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 08:51:00 CST, "Jilly" <jilly@stny.rr,com > wrote in <486cd873$0$17681$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster,com >:

>> Dollars to donuts, Kyle will think twice about turning
>> into Montoya in the future. I'm not saying he won't
>> DO it, just that it will be with malice aforethought.

>No he won't, Shrub very seldom *thinks* at all when driving. He is a seat
>of the pants, gut reaction, go for the gusto, the world be damn'd, type of
>racer and he can't be 'taught' to drive any other way. He won't have a
>single hesitation of getting into JPM at any time at any future race.

Time will tell, I guess.

We may have to wait for Judgment Day to get the whole
story. I've taken a vow against using my powers of
ESP when dealing with mere mortals and ESPN isn't yet
providing inside-the-driver's-head coverage. :o)

Marty
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Re: Montoya vs. Busch

chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in
news:ruLak.111$Z11.10@trndny05:

> Big thing is, there is a lot of banging, in stock car racing,
> that doesn't always result in spinning people, something JPM hasn't
> had a lot of experience with in open wheelers..
> While it can get pretty aggrevating, it's something that does
> happen a lot.
> If JPM didn't ever get spun out, and all he did was just get roughed
> up, then spinning a guy out (and yourself) under a caution,
> is a tad over reacting... and saying you did it on purpose is just
> dumb.

Very true. On the other hand, not reacting at all is just asking
to be walked over. A driver could have a worse reputation than
"you bang me, I'll bang you back worse". It gives cars trying to
pass a little extra incentive to be clean about it.

And Busch, perhaps, has learned that banging into other cars isn't
such a good idea when his car isn't fast enough to drive away from
them.

John

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

In article John McCoy <igopogo@ix,net com,com > wrote:

>chuck_steak@nospam,com (Chuck Steak) wrote in

>> If JPM didn't ever get spun out, and all he did was just get roughed
>> up, then spinning a guy out (and yourself) under a caution,
>> is a tad over reacting... and saying you did it on purpose is just
>> dumb.

>Very true. On the other hand, not reacting at all is just asking
>to be walked over.

I couldn't agree more, John...
If you ever race, you find out really quick
that if you let guys rough you up to get by,
it will happen ALL the time..
You need to give it back.
But I always tried to return a favor in kind....
IOW, not intentionally give back more than you got..
Unless of course you want to use the 'cummualtive'
method of remembering...
(Get hit a bunch of times, and just pay back once!)




Dan
****************************************
When people say, 'can I ask you a question?',
you really don't have much of a choice...

Re: Montoya vs. Busch

Megan Zurawicz <listpig@sbcglobal,net > wrote in
news:C49047EB.61790%listpig@sbcglobal,net :

> Interesting, though,
> that nobody else noticed anything of the sort happening---hitting him
> that often you'd think would get noticed, especially as much as the
> press tends to keep an eye on ol' Rowdy. Or so I'd think, anyhow.

True. OTOH, they'd been competing for 18th place, or thereabouts
all day. The TV's, at least, rarely pay much attention to the
guys behind 10th, unless they're wrecking.

John