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Detroit Three Cash Crunch

Reply from: Mike Simmons
Date: 01 Jul 2008, 18:36
Detroit Three Cash Crunch

In reading the latest news from the Motor City, it appears that the Big
Three are now suffering a cash crunch like never before. The prospect for
improved sales are not anywhere on the horizon. Although, GM, Ford and
Chrysler have maintained in the past that they are committed to the NASCAR
program, it remains to be seen the strength of their commitment in light of
the market collapse.

I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
withdrawing their support from NASCAR. I would hate to see this but in
light of the economic situation, I can't blame them. Should this indeed
happen, it would leave all the Detroit Three teams at the mercy of Toyota
who likely will remain a presence in NASCAR, at least in the short term.

What are your thoughts.....?

Mike



Reply from: SG
Date: 01 Jul 2008, 18:55
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

Mike Simmons wrote:
> In reading the latest news from the Motor City, it appears that the Big
> Three are now suffering a cash crunch like never before. The prospect for
> improved sales are not anywhere on the horizon. Although, GM, Ford and
> Chrysler have maintained in the past that they are committed to the NASCAR
> program, it remains to be seen the strength of their commitment in light of
> the market collapse.
>
> I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
> withdrawing their support from NASCAR. I would hate to see this but in
> light of the economic situation, I can't blame them. Should this indeed
> happen, it would leave all the Detroit Three teams at the mercy of Toyota
> who likely will remain a presence in NASCAR, at least in the short term.
>
> What are your thoughts.....?
>
> Mike
>
>


IRL (identical racing league)


;-)


Reply from: John McCoy
Date: 02 Jul 2008, 01:53
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

SG <spaamtrapper@yahoo,com > wrote in
news:ieadnbSZzPvyzvfVnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast,com :

> Mike Simmons wrote:

>> I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
>> withdrawing their support from NASCAR. I would hate to see this but
>> in light of the economic situation, I can't blame them. Should this
>> indeed happen, it would leave all the Detroit Three teams at the
>> mercy of Toyota who likely will remain a presence in NASCAR, at least
>> in the short term.

>
> IRL (identical racing league)

LOL. That's pretty much what we have now, anyway.

To Mike's point, I don't think it will make whole lot of difference.
NASCAR, for all their general lack of clue, are smart enough to
tweak the rules to stop one brand winning everything. If Toyota
is the only brand providing factory support, they'll quietly be
told not to push it too far.

John


Reply from: SG
Date: 01 Jul 2008, 19:04
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

Mike Simmons wrote:
> In reading the latest news from the Motor City, it appears that the Big
> Three are now suffering a cash crunch like never before. The prospect for
> improved sales are not anywhere on the horizon. Although, GM, Ford and
> Chrysler have maintained in the past that they are committed to the NASCAR
> program, it remains to be seen the strength of their commitment in light of
> the market collapse.
>
> I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
> withdrawing their support from NASCAR. I would hate to see this but in
> light of the economic situation, I can't blame them. Should this indeed
> happen, it would leave all the Detroit Three teams at the mercy of Toyota
> who likely will remain a presence in NASCAR, at least in the short term.
>
> What are your thoughts.....?
>
> Mike
>
>

not my thoughts....but I read this recently, it's pretty much what you
mention:
http :// www .autoextremist,com /fumes1/


Reply from: Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Date: 01 Jul 2008, 19:23
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:36:20 CST, "Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote in <FeOdnd73ZN_q0PfVnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@posted.yhti>:

> ... I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
>withdrawing their support from NASCAR.

There's an RPG.

If an when it comes true, you may boast as much as
you think your audience can stand about your prophetic
powers. :o)

My own Wildly Amateur Guess is that NASCAR will do
everything it can to keep them in the show. Some
money is better than no money.

Time will tell. It will be interesting to see what
develops.

Marty
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Reply from: Robert Wolfe
Date: 02 Jul 2008, 03:38
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

Yoyota's, (sic) earnings were down the tubes today as well as Fords.
Still don't see any Majors pulling out of NASVAR until Honda
Makes them all run as they did with IRL.


Reply from: bob.paxton@gmail,com
Date: 02 Jul 2008, 14:36
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Jul 1, 12:36 pm, "Mike Simmons" <mike...@yhti,net > wrote:

> I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
> withdrawing their support from NASCAR. I would hate to see this but in
> light of the economic situation, I can't blame them. Should this indeed
> happen, it would leave all the Detroit Three teams at the mercy of Toyota
> who likely will remain a presence in NASCAR, at least in the short term.
>
> What are your thoughts.....?


My thoughts run in a different direction. I'm thinking that as times
get tougher, every last shred of market share becomes even more
valuable. If you're Dodge for example, do you really want to walk
away and leave NASCAR's vast and brand-loyal audience to Ford, Chevy
and Toyota? I really have no clue how much the manufacturers put into
racing, but I'm thinking that the return on investment has to be
pretty good with all the media coverage. That leads me to believe
that the manufacturers aren't going anywhere any time soon, but I
could be wrong.


Reply from: Pete
Date: 03 Jul 2008, 18:41
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

Time to cut back the number of laps in a race or number of practices to help
with the gas situation. Think of all the gallons of gas that are used
during all these events and we are here being told the supply is up and that
is the reason for high prices at the pump. I think they use 4 gallons a lap
for those events but I guess which track they are at? Think of some of the
fans who cannot go to the races because of the price of gas. I love NASCAR
but it's time for them and the sponsors to chip in and help also.


"Mike Simmons" <mikesim@yhti,net > wrote in message
news:FeOdnd73ZN q0PfVnZ2dnUVZ u6dnZ2d@posted.yhti...
> In reading the latest news from the Motor City, it appears that the Big
> Three are now suffering a cash crunch like never before. The prospect for
> improved sales are not anywhere on the horizon. Although, GM, Ford and
> Chrysler have maintained in the past that they are committed to the NASCAR
> program, it remains to be seen the strength of their commitment in light
> of the market collapse.
>
> I suspect that in the very near future, we will read that all are
> withdrawing their support from NASCAR. I would hate to see this but in
> light of the economic situation, I can't blame them. Should this indeed
> happen, it would leave all the Detroit Three teams at the mercy of Toyota
> who likely will remain a presence in NASCAR, at least in the short term.
>
> What are your thoughts.....?
>
> Mike
>
>


Reply from: Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Date: 03 Jul 2008, 21:06
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:41:31 CST, "Pete" <psteak8913@atlanticbb,net > wrote in
<5eidndwT-7WCbvHVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@posted.echolabs>:

> ... I think they use 4 gallons a lap
>for those events ...

You may be thinking of dragsters. NASCAR gets 5-7 mpg:

http :// www .insidebayarea,com /ci_9652929

As you suggested, how many laps per gallon depends on
the track and the kind of racing involved (short
track, superspeedway [various lengths], plate, road).

Funny Car numbers:

- During idle, a Funny Car consumes a gallon of fuel every 15 seconds. Balance
of weight is such an issue that if the car idles too long, it will be too light
in the nose and will lift the front wheels during initial acceleration. For
anyone that watches drag racing, he or she knows that this might result in the
car steering directly into the wall.

- One 4.73 second quarter mile run consumes 15 gallons of fuel at about
$15/gallon (or more). That is a fuel efficiency of 0.016 miles per gallon. If
these were on the street, the EPA would be furious.
http :// zpipedragon,com /Home/Automotive/Drag_Racing/Drag%20Racing.htm

Top Fuel dragsters consume 64 gallons per minute at speed:
http :// wheelerdealer-blog.blogspot,com /2007/11/top-fuel-dragster-fuel-pump.html

A top fuel dragster can consume 6 U.S. gallons (23 L) of nitromethane for a
quarter-mile (400 m) run in about 4.5 seconds, which comes out to 24 gallons per
mile (5600 L per 100 km).
http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles

Marty
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Reply from: David Starr
Date: 04 Jul 2008, 00:35
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:06:41 CST, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu>
wrote:


>Funny Car numbers:
>
>- During idle, a Funny Car consumes a gallon of fuel every 15 seconds. Balance
>of weight is such an issue that if the car idles too long, it will be too light
>in the nose and will lift the front wheels during initial acceleration. For
>anyone that watches drag racing, he or she knows that this might result in the
>car steering directly into the wall.
>
>- One 4.73 second quarter mile run consumes 15 gallons of fuel at about
>$15/gallon (or more). That is a fuel efficiency of 0.016 miles per gallon. If
>these were on the street, the EPA would be furious.
> http :// zpipedragon,com /Home/Automotive/Drag_Racing/Drag%20Racing.htm
>
>Top Fuel dragsters consume 64 gallons per minute at speed:
> http :// wheelerdealer-blog.blogspot,com /2007/11/top-fuel-dragster-fuel-pump.html
>
>A top fuel dragster can consume 6 U.S. gallons (23 L) of nitromethane for a
>quarter-mile (400 m) run in about 4.5 seconds, which comes out to 24 gallons per
>mile (5600 L per 100 km).
> http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles
>
Ever see the fuel flow demo with the clear plastic "manifold"? At full
throttle, it looks like Niagra Falls.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Speak softly and carry a loaded .45
Lifetime member; Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Web Site: www .destarr,com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Reply from: Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Date: 04 Jul 2008, 01:45
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:35:24 CST, David Starr <davestarr@sbcglobal,net > wrote in <mdhq64987c4ddtcei7flhvpvrdeo4v8fu4@4ax,com >:

>Ever see the fuel flow demo with the clear plastic "manifold"? At full
>throttle, it looks like Niagra Falls.

I haven't seen it in person.

I think it's on this page:

http :// wheelerdealer-blog.blogspot,com /2007/11/top-fuel-dragster-fuel-pump.html

And if I understand it, it's just for one carb (out
of several?--that's what the page suggests).

Marty
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Reply from: John McCoy
Date: 04 Jul 2008, 02:36
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu> wrote in
news:UMadnXjBvqfBy_DVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@supernews,com :

> http :// wheelerdealer-blog.blogspot,com /2007/11/top-fuel-dragster-fuel-p
> ump.html
>
> And if I understand it, it's just for one carb (out
> of several?--that's what the page suggests).

Hmm, that guy's numbers seem to be having problems.

In any event, fuel cars don't have carbs, they're fuel injected.
Unlike a street car, which typically has one fuel injector per
cylinder, top fuel engines usually have 40 or more (often two
per cylinder in the head, two per cylinder in the manifold,
and another 8 or 12 in the "injector" above the supercharger
(it's a frustrating anomaly of dragster-speak that the air
scoop on top of the supercharger is called the injector).

Top fuelers can do that because they burn nitromethane, not
gasoline. Nitro doesn't require air to burn, so you can
just fill the cylinder up with it - as long as the engine
doesn't hydraulic, you can't have too much. Gasoline engines,
on the otherhand, need 14 times as much air as gas, so there'd
be no point in having a fueler like injection system.

John


Reply from: David Starr
Date: 05 Jul 2008, 01:02
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:45:00 CST, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" <moleski@canisius.edu>
wrote:

>On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:35:24 CST, David Starr <davestarr@sbcglobal,net > wrote in <mdhq64987c4ddtcei7flhvpvrdeo4v8fu4@4ax,com >:
>
>>Ever see the fuel flow demo with the clear plastic "manifold"? At full
>>throttle, it looks like Niagra Falls.
>
>I haven't seen it in person.
>
>I think it's on this page:
>
> http :// wheelerdealer-blog.blogspot,com /2007/11/top-fuel-dragster-fuel-pump.html
>
>And if I understand it, it's just for one carb (out
>of several?--that's what the page suggests).
>
> Marty
Like the text on the page said, that's one cylinder. The one I saw was a couple
years ago during an event telecast. It was basically a plexiglass box with the
fuel pump output going through it. At full throttle, it looked like Niagra
Falls going through the box.

There's also been a demo showing how big a gap a spark from a magneto will jump.
2", IIRC.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Speak softly and carry a loaded .45
Lifetime member; Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Web Site: www .destarr,com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Reply from: Martin X. Moleski, SJ
Date: 05 Jul 2008, 07:31
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:02:46 CST, David Starr <davestarr@sbcglobal,net > wrote in <n26t6498rr8fseh83k2k9fiodv9hgg7rut@4ax,com >:

>Like the text on the page said, that's one cylinder.

Yes. My fault for calling it a "carb."

>The one I saw was a couple
>years ago during an event telecast. It was basically a plexiglass box with the
>fuel pump output going through it. At full throttle, it looked like Niagra
>Falls going through the box.

There's a video on this page of that box:

http :// wheelerdealer-blog.blogspot,com /2007/11/top-fuel-dragster-fuel-pump.html

>There's also been a demo showing how big a gap a spark from a magneto will jump.
>2", IIRC.

Yowzah!

Marty
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Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
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Reply from: John McCoy
Date: 04 Jul 2008, 02:22
Re: Detroit Three Cash Crunch

"Pete" <psteak8913@atlanticbb,net > wrote in
news:5eidndwT-7WCbvHVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@posted.echolabs:

> Time to cut back the number of laps in a race or number of practices
> to help with the gas situation.

Wouldn't make any difference. The amount of fuel the competitors
use is miniscule compared to the amount the fans in attendance use
getting to and from the track.

John



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