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my tires are hard!
I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
worn?
nate
ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
worn?
nate
"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail . com > wrote in message
news:9d5ffd6c-8d2f-41c6-83f6-86eebe90af59@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard?
Ozone will attack the rubber, over time, and cause it to deteriorate, crack,
etc
but over the short haul, I have never heard ozone blamed for loss of
traction.
What brand and series of tires did you replace the Goody's with?
Dear N8N:
On May 8, 12:06 pm, N8N <njna...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure
> to elements, ozone, whatever causes the rubber in
> car tires to get hard?
Yes. This is very true. Ozone is applied (with or without humidty
control) in heated chambers to speed the "natural aging process". The
results are hardening, then cracks because a given displacement breaks
intermolecular bonds (due to the stiffening).
> I was whining and crying like a little girl about
> the Goodyear tires on my company car and how
> unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the
> point that I got the fleet people to authorize
> replacement. I remember even posting about how
> much better the new tires were than the old
> Goodyears. Well, today it was raining while I
> was driving to work and again I have no traction
> whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign
> or light at anything more than a snail's pace
> results in massive wheelspin, and uphill -
> fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just
> not during any time that I had to drive the car.
> I don't think it's my foot, either, although I
> am not the slowest driver on the road. Can
> anyone think of an explanation as to why I seem
> to be having such issues with completely
> unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires
> are barely worn?
OK, you raise several points:
1) It is your foot. Everyone should be "calmer" with water on the
road.
2) ozone and corona (not the beer) are used to treat polymer films to
improve "wetting" characteristics. Will likely affect either the
rubber's ability to "reject" water or oil on the road.
3) drag racers pour (or used to pour) bleach in the tires / track to
do what?... soften the tires and increase traction.
4) the grooves in your tires are designed *when new* to pump ungodly
amounts of water. As wear occurs, these passages become narrower /
shallower, requiring more pressure to get the same amount of flow.
Ozone will make your tires harder, the sidewalls will stiffen up,
changing the contact area some. Areas affected by ozone for "wetting"
are abraided by driving, so this might be an effect, but it should be
small. But most of all, wear decreases the grooves in the tires.
Or so I'd guess...
David A. Smith
On May 8, 12:06 pm, N8N <njna...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure
> to elements, ozone, whatever causes the rubber in
> car tires to get hard?
Yes. This is very true. Ozone is applied (with or without humidty
control) in heated chambers to speed the "natural aging process". The
results are hardening, then cracks because a given displacement breaks
intermolecular bonds (due to the stiffening).
> I was whining and crying like a little girl about
> the Goodyear tires on my company car and how
> unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the
> point that I got the fleet people to authorize
> replacement. I remember even posting about how
> much better the new tires were than the old
> Goodyears. Well, today it was raining while I
> was driving to work and again I have no traction
> whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign
> or light at anything more than a snail's pace
> results in massive wheelspin, and uphill -
> fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just
> not during any time that I had to drive the car.
> I don't think it's my foot, either, although I
> am not the slowest driver on the road. Can
> anyone think of an explanation as to why I seem
> to be having such issues with completely
> unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires
> are barely worn?
OK, you raise several points:
1) It is your foot. Everyone should be "calmer" with water on the
road.
2) ozone and corona (not the beer) are used to treat polymer films to
improve "wetting" characteristics. Will likely affect either the
rubber's ability to "reject" water or oil on the road.
3) drag racers pour (or used to pour) bleach in the tires / track to
do what?... soften the tires and increase traction.
4) the grooves in your tires are designed *when new* to pump ungodly
amounts of water. As wear occurs, these passages become narrower /
shallower, requiring more pressure to get the same amount of flow.
Ozone will make your tires harder, the sidewalls will stiffen up,
changing the contact area some. Areas affected by ozone for "wetting"
are abraided by driving, so this might be an effect, but it should be
small. But most of all, wear decreases the grooves in the tires.
Or so I'd guess...
David A. Smith
"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail . com > wrote in message
news:9d5ffd6c-8d2f-41c6-83f6-86eebe90af59@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
> whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
> company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
> the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
> about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
> Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
> have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
> light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
> wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
> that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
> although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
> an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
> completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
> worn?
>
> nate
With a fleet car you won't have much choice what kind of rubber to put on.
For the timeframe the average set of tires are in service, the elements
won't have much effect. Some tires will work better in the rain/wet than
others and the rubber compound and tread pattern will make a difference.
You can try w w w .tirerack . com and read the reviews, but there is no such
thing as a perfect tire for all types of weather. Depending on your tire
size, I used to have Bridgestone Potenza RE950s and they were excellent in
the rain/dry, but there was much to be desired for snow...
Back to your post, when you start from a stop sign or light, there is often
the pedestrian strips which can make the wheels spin easier. Also more oil
from vehicles may tend to build up at traffic lights and stop signs...
-Dave
N8N wrote:
> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
> whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
> company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
> the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
> about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
> Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
> have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
> light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
> wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
> that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
> although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
> an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
> completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
> worn?
>
> nate
Ozone and sunlight (UV) and general de-volatilization, but it takes years.
How old are those tires?
> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
> whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
> company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
> the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
> about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
> Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
> have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
> light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
> wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
> that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
> although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
> an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
> completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
> worn?
>
> nate
Ozone and sunlight (UV) and general de-volatilization, but it takes years.
How old are those tires?
Paul wrote:
> N8N wrote:
>
>> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
>> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
>> whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
>> company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
>> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
>> the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
>> about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
>> Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
>> have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
>> light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
>> wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
>> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
>> that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
>> although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
>> an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
>> completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
>> worn?
>>
>> nate
>
>
> Ozone and sunlight (UV) and general de-volatilization, but it takes years.
> How old are those tires?
That's the thing, they're about 6 months old, give or take (if I looked
up my old posts, I could get them within a couple days.) They're
Uniroyal Tiger Paws, and I do remember remarking that they were
significantly better than the old Goodyear whatever the heck they were
tires that they replaced. And no, I didn't notice any of my neighbors
or coworkers pouring transmission fluid on my front tires, or any
excessive amounts of smoke. I also don't notice any significant tread
wear, so what I'm experiencing is either extroardinarily slick roads or
else a physical change in the physical properties of the tire. I
haven't been through a car wash in a while, either, so I guess that
rules out enthusiastic applications of inappropriate tire dressing.
It doesn't help, of course, that when accelerating from a non-zero speed
that one can press the accelerator down a small distance where nothing
happens other than the engine gets really loud, and then you press a
little more and the trans drops two gears and suddenly you have actual
torque being presented to the front tires. Would be a heck of a lot
easier to drive smoothly if it had a manual transmission, but I guess
that is not a popular option among Impala buyers.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
* members.cox . net /njnagel
> N8N wrote:
>
>> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
>> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
>> whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
>> company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
>> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
>> the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
>> about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
>> Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
>> have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
>> light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
>> wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
>> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
>> that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
>> although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
>> an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
>> completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
>> worn?
>>
>> nate
>
>
> Ozone and sunlight (UV) and general de-volatilization, but it takes years.
> How old are those tires?
That's the thing, they're about 6 months old, give or take (if I looked
up my old posts, I could get them within a couple days.) They're
Uniroyal Tiger Paws, and I do remember remarking that they were
significantly better than the old Goodyear whatever the heck they were
tires that they replaced. And no, I didn't notice any of my neighbors
or coworkers pouring transmission fluid on my front tires, or any
excessive amounts of smoke. I also don't notice any significant tread
wear, so what I'm experiencing is either extroardinarily slick roads or
else a physical change in the physical properties of the tire. I
haven't been through a car wash in a while, either, so I guess that
rules out enthusiastic applications of inappropriate tire dressing.
It doesn't help, of course, that when accelerating from a non-zero speed
that one can press the accelerator down a small distance where nothing
happens other than the engine gets really loud, and then you press a
little more and the trans drops two gears and suddenly you have actual
torque being presented to the front tires. Would be a heck of a lot
easier to drive smoothly if it had a manual transmission, but I guess
that is not a popular option among Impala buyers.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
* members.cox . net /njnagel
Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters . net > wrote:
>That's the thing, they're about 6 months old, give or take (if I looked
>up my old posts, I could get them within a couple days.) They're
>Uniroyal Tiger Paws, and I do remember remarking that they were
>significantly better than the old Goodyear whatever the heck they were
>tires that they replaced. And no, I didn't notice any of my neighbors
>or coworkers pouring transmission fluid on my front tires, or any
>excessive amounts of smoke. I also don't notice any significant tread
>wear, so what I'm experiencing is either extroardinarily slick roads or
>else a physical change in the physical properties of the tire. I
>haven't been through a car wash in a while, either, so I guess that
>rules out enthusiastic applications of inappropriate tire dressing.
Check your tire pressure.
Of course, it's possible that they are better than the previous tires, but
still not very good. I will put in a good word for the Michelin Hydroedge
tires as far as wet pavement handling goes. As good as the old Goodyear
Aquatreads, but more stable on grooved pavement.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>That's the thing, they're about 6 months old, give or take (if I looked
>up my old posts, I could get them within a couple days.) They're
>Uniroyal Tiger Paws, and I do remember remarking that they were
>significantly better than the old Goodyear whatever the heck they were
>tires that they replaced. And no, I didn't notice any of my neighbors
>or coworkers pouring transmission fluid on my front tires, or any
>excessive amounts of smoke. I also don't notice any significant tread
>wear, so what I'm experiencing is either extroardinarily slick roads or
>else a physical change in the physical properties of the tire. I
>haven't been through a car wash in a while, either, so I guess that
>rules out enthusiastic applications of inappropriate tire dressing.
Check your tire pressure.
Of course, it's possible that they are better than the previous tires, but
still not very good. I will put in a good word for the Michelin Hydroedge
tires as far as wet pavement handling goes. As good as the old Goodyear
Aquatreads, but more stable on grooved pavement.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
"Nate Nagel" <njnagel@roosters . net > wrote in message
news:g001qa01udb@news2.newsguy . com ...
> Paul wrote:
>> N8N wrote:
>>
>>> I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
>>> ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
>>> whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
>>> company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
>>> whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
>>> the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
>>> about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
>>> Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
>>> have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
>>> light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
>>> wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
>>> roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
>>> that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
>>> although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
>>> an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
>>> completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
>>> worn?
>>>
>>> nate
>>
>>
>> Ozone and sunlight (UV) and general de-volatilization, but it takes
>> years.
>> How old are those tires?
>
> That's the thing, they're about 6 months old, give or take (if I looked up
> my old posts, I could get them within a couple days.) They're Uniroyal
> Tiger Paws, and I do remember remarking that they were significantly
> better than the old Goodyear whatever the heck they were tires that they
> replaced. And no, I didn't notice any of my neighbors or coworkers
> pouring transmission fluid on my front tires, or any excessive amounts of
> smoke. I also don't notice any significant tread wear, so what I'm
> experiencing is either extroardinarily slick roads or else a physical
> change in the physical properties of the tire. I haven't been through a
> car wash in a while, either, so I guess that rules out enthusiastic
> applications of inappropriate tire dressing.
>
> It doesn't help, of course, that when accelerating from a non-zero speed
> that one can press the accelerator down a small distance where nothing
> happens other than the engine gets really loud, and then you press a
> little more and the trans drops two gears and suddenly you have actual
> torque being presented to the front tires.
>>snip<<
Hey, Nate, I think you pointed out *A* problem right there. Next time
that engine roars yet you get no response, rather than pressing the accel.
down further to bring about a 2-gear drop, simply pull the gear lever down 1
notch so as to bring about a 1-gear drop. Actually, pull it back BEFORE you
know it's gonna make the eng. moan! Much less jerky-torque all of a
sudden--rather a smooth increase. HTH, s
I saw a show (Market Place) comparing "winter" tires to "all season".
Apparently there is no such thing as an "all season" tire. The winter
tires are to be used in a certain temperature range. I think they said
below 50 degrees Fahrenheit. You can use them above 50 degrees, but
they wear out real fast. Winter tires are a softer rubber. I think you
would get good traction with winter tires in the rain. Just keep an
extra set of tires and look out in the morning and if its raining put
the winter tires on. That's what I do. Some provinces require by law
that cars use winter tires in certain months of the year because the
traction is significantly better. I hope that helps.
Apparently there is no such thing as an "all season" tire. The winter
tires are to be used in a certain temperature range. I think they said
below 50 degrees Fahrenheit. You can use them above 50 degrees, but
they wear out real fast. Winter tires are a softer rubber. I think you
would get good traction with winter tires in the rain. Just keep an
extra set of tires and look out in the morning and if its raining put
the winter tires on. That's what I do. Some provinces require by law
that cars use winter tires in certain months of the year because the
traction is significantly better. I hope that helps.
On Thu, 8 May 2008 12:06:24 -0700 (PDT), N8N <njnagel@hotmail . com >
wrote:
>I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
>ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
>whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
>company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
>whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
>the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
>about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
>Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
>have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
>light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
>wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
>roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
>that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
>although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
>an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
>completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
>worn?
>
>nate
Are you running factory recommended pressure or do you have them run
up to sidewall pressure?
Steve B.
wrote:
>I'm just curious, is there any evidence that exposure to elements,
>ozone, whatever causes the rubber in car tires to get hard? I was
>whining and crying like a little girl about the Goodyear tires on my
>company car and how unsafe they were in the wet, they had no traction
>whatsoever. Eventually they wore out enough to the point that I got
>the fleet people to authorize replacement. I remember even posting
>about how much better the new tires were than the old Goodyears.
>Well, today it was raining while I was driving to work and again I
>have no traction whatsoever! Trying to accelerate from a stop sign or
>light at anything more than a snail's pace results in massive
>wheelspin, and uphill - fugettaboutit. I don't think it's oil on the
>roads, as it's rained within the last week, just not during any time
>that I had to drive the car. I don't think it's my foot, either,
>although I am not the slowest driver on the road. Can anyone think of
>an explanation as to why I seem to be having such issues with
>completely unacceptable wet-weather traction, when my tires are barely
>worn?
>
>nate
Are you running factory recommended pressure or do you have them run
up to sidewall pressure?
Steve B.
"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail . com > wrote in message
news:9d5ffd6c-8d2f-41c6-83f6-86eebe90af59@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
I have nothing but opinions on tires....no proof.
I use Michelins. Occasionally I will use other brands under some
circumstances.
Not all Michelins are top notch either.
I stopped buying Firestones years ago when they couldnt keep the belts
straight.
US Royals (Uniroyals) used to be a POS.
If you have had those Tiger Paws for only 6 months, ozone is not your
problem, in my humble opinion.
so what is the date of manufacture of the tires as per the stamp on
the tires. Maybe they sold you some old tires. see my post, tires over
6 years old can kill you.
* groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.tech/browse_frm/thread/008ddf11f48b1a6a#
the tires. Maybe they sold you some old tires. see my post, tires over
6 years old can kill you.
* groups.google . com /group/rec.autos.tech/browse_frm/thread/008ddf11f48b1a6a#
