OT: What book are you currently reading?

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Anthony Ferrante wrote:

> I imagine there are a lot of readers here. Which book are you
> currently reading and what are your thoughts on it?
>
> I just finished "Evil Brothers, A True Crime Story" which was hard to
> read. The story revolved around two brothers who killed 9 people and
> was suspected in three other murders. All of this happened in Toledo,
> Ohio over a two year period.
>
> And you?

I am currently reading an interesting book about the German resistance to
the Nazis. I usually read non fiction. Novels just don't do it for me
anymore.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I am currently reading an interesting book about the German resistance to
> the Nazis. I usually read non fiction. Novels just don't do it for me
> anymore.

Me, too. A couple books you might like are
Assignment in Utopia by Eugene Lyons, which
is an eyewitness account of the author's
experience as UPI Moscow correspondent at
the beginning of the Stalin era, and
Indiscreet Letters From Peking by Bertram
Simpson, which is an eyewitness account of
the seige of the foreign legation community
during the Boxer rebellion. I don't know
if either book is still in print, but they're
available from used bookstores listed here:

http :// www .addall,com /Used/

They're both great reads, both because of
the excellent writing and the historical
events they describe.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Dave Smith wrote:

> Anthony Ferrante wrote:
>
>> I imagine there are a lot of readers here. Which book are you
>> currently reading and what are your thoughts on it?
>>
>> I just finished "Evil Brothers, A True Crime Story" which was hard to
>> read. The story revolved around two brothers who killed 9 people and
>> was suspected in three other murders. All of this happened in Toledo,
>> Ohio over a two year period.
>>
>> And you?
>
> I am currently reading an interesting book about the German resistance to
> the Nazis. I usually read non fiction. Novels just don't do it for me
> anymore.

I've pretty much just been reading history (heavy to WWII and the '20s
and '30s) for years, although I'm about finished with "A Farewell To
Arms", which seemed like a good thing to read along with a book I'd
started on Italy between and including the world wars.


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Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Blinky the Shark wrote:

>
> >> I imagine there are a lot of readers here. Which book are you
> >> currently reading and what are your thoughts on it?
> >>
> >> I just finished "Evil Brothers, A True Crime Story" which was hard to
> >> read. The story revolved around two brothers who killed 9 people and
> >> was suspected in three other murders. All of this happened in Toledo,
> >> Ohio over a two year period.
> >>
> >> And you?
> >
> > I am currently reading an interesting book about the German resistance to
> > the Nazis. I usually read non fiction. Novels just don't do it for me
> > anymore.
>
> I've pretty much just been reading history (heavy to WWII and the '20s
> and '30s) for years, although I'm about finished with "A Farewell To
> Arms", which seemed like a good thing to read along with a book I'd
> started on Italy between and including the world wars.

There is a lot of interesting stuff written about WW I & II, also a lot of good
Holocaust stories. I recently read "The Mascot" and amazing story about an guy
who was raised by Latvian SS troops who, with the help of his journalist son,
traces his roots. I was also impressed with "Flyboys" about the fate of a
number of American navy fliers shot down and captured at Chichi Jima.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Dave Smith wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>>
>> >> I imagine there are a lot of readers here. Which book are you
>> >> currently reading and what are your thoughts on it?
>> >>
>> >> I just finished "Evil Brothers, A True Crime Story" which was hard to
>> >> read. The story revolved around two brothers who killed 9 people and
>> >> was suspected in three other murders. All of this happened in Toledo,
>> >> Ohio over a two year period.
>> >>
>> >> And you?
>> >
>> > I am currently reading an interesting book about the German resistance to
>> > the Nazis. I usually read non fiction. Novels just don't do it for me
>> > anymore.
>>
>> I've pretty much just been reading history (heavy to WWII and the '20s
>> and '30s) for years, although I'm about finished with "A Farewell To
>> Arms", which seemed like a good thing to read along with a book I'd
>> started on Italy between and including the world wars.
>
> There is a lot of interesting stuff written about WW I & II, also a lot of good
> Holocaust stories. I recently read "The Mascot" and amazing story about an guy
> who was raised by Latvian SS troops who, with the help of his journalist son,
> traces his roots. I was also impressed with "Flyboys" about the fate of a
> number of American navy fliers shot down and captured at Chichi Jima.

I don't do much in the way of individual or small-unit tales[1], but I did
recently have a good read with "The Last Stand Of The Tin Can Sailors"
which was about a group of destroyers and escort carriers attacked by the
main group of the Japanese fleet (who thought they were attacking the main
group of the US fleet) at Leyte (specifically The Battle Off Samar). It
was a huge upset by the totally outgunned USN and controversial because
the US group got no help from nearby units.

[1] You can see from my WWII section here,
http :// blinkynet,net /books/histwwii01.html, that I'm more of a
large-picture reader.


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Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Blinky the Shark wrote:

>
> I don't do much in the way of individual or small-unit tales[1], but I did
> recently have a good read with "The Last Stand Of The Tin Can Sailors"
> which was about a group of destroyers and escort carriers attacked by the
> main group of the Japanese fleet (who thought they were attacking the main
> group of the US fleet) at Leyte (specifically The Battle Off Samar). It
> was a huge upset by the totally outgunned USN and controversial because
> the US group got no help from nearby units.
>
> [1] You can see from my WWII section here,
> http :// blinkynet,net /books/histwwii01.html, that I'm more of a
> large-picture reader.

I have read a couple of the books on your list, Armageddon and the Battle of the
River Platte. Since you have done some reading on the Italian campaign you might be
interested in "The D Day Dodgers" which chronicles the advance of Canadian troops
through Sicily and Italy. On of my uncles is mentioned in that one. He was the first
to cross the Hitler line and ring the bell in the church at Porto Cuervo <sp?> to
give the all clear.


I find some of the personalized stories. They give an interesting perspective to the
events of the times. Farley Mowat has written some interesting books about his
experiences in the war. My uncle served with him and knew him quite well. "And No
Birds Sang" details his experiences in Italy. It is good reading.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Dave Smith wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>
>> I don't do much in the way of individual or small-unit tales[1], but I
>> did recently have a good read with "The Last Stand Of The Tin Can
>> Sailors" which was about a group of destroyers and escort carriers
>> attacked by the main group of the Japanese fleet (who thought they were
>> attacking the main group of the US fleet) at Leyte (specifically The
>> Battle Off Samar). It was a huge upset by the totally outgunned USN
>> and controversial because the US group got no help from nearby units.
>>
>> [1] You can see from my WWII section here,
>> http :// blinkynet,net /books/histwwii01.html, that I'm more of a
>> large-picture reader.
>
> I have read a couple of the books on your list, Armageddon and the
> Battle of the River Platte. Since you have done some reading on the
> Italian campaign you might be interested in "The D Day Dodgers" which
> chronicles the advance of Canadian troops through Sicily and Italy. On
> of my uncles is mentioned in that one. He was the first

Used to vacation in Canada, when I was growing up in Michigan about a
two-hour drive from Windsor and a little more from Sarnia.

> to cross the Hitler line and ring the bell in the church at Porto Cuervo
> <sp?> to give the all clear.

That's a nice little distinction.

> I find some of the personalized stories. They give an interesting
> perspective to the events of the times. Farley Mowat has written some
> interesting books about his experiences in the war. My uncle served with
> him and knew him quite well. "And No Birds Sang" details his experiences
> in Italy. It is good reading.

"Naples '44" was a first-person account, as well, from an intel officer
assigned there after it liberation. Its picture is of the culture and its
people.

Perhaps the only WWII book I've put down is "Utah Beach" (Joseph
Balkoski). It's mostly strung-together personal accounts, with connecting
notes about every yard gained or lost. Not to discredit their work or
the author's -- but I can only read pinned-down-by-heavy-MG-fire anecdotes
so many times in one sitting, before each page becomes just like the last
one but with different squad leaders' names.


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Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Blinky the Shark wrote:

>
>
> > I have read a couple of the books on your list, Armageddon and the
> > Battle of the River Platte. Since you have done some reading on the
> > Italian campaign you might be interested in "The D Day Dodgers" which
> > chronicles the advance of Canadian troops through Sicily and Italy. On
> > of my uncles is mentioned in that one. He was the first
>
> Used to vacation in Canada, when I was growing up in Michigan about a
> two-hour drive from Windsor and a little more from Sarnia.
>
> > to cross the Hitler line and ring the bell in the church at Porto Cuervo
> > <sp?> to give the all clear.
>
> That's a nice little distinction.

He never talked much about the war, but he did tell me about that incident.
It seems that he tumbled down a hill rolled around in some mud on the way into
the town, and gave the all clear when they found the Germans had pulled out.
Then he checked his pistol and found the barrel was plugged with mud. Good
thing he didn't have to use it :-)


>
>
> "Naples '44" was a first-person account, as well, from an intel officer
> assigned there after it liberation. Its picture is of the culture and its
> people.
>
> Perhaps the only WWII book I've put down is "Utah Beach" (Joseph
> Balkoski). It's mostly strung-together personal accounts, with connecting
> notes about every yard gained or lost. Not to discredit their work or
> the author's -- but I can only read pinned-down-by-heavy-MG-fire anecdotes
> so many times in one sitting, before each page becomes just like the last
> one but with different squad leaders' names.

I put them down when they start making too many bizarre and paranoid comments,
like one I picked up at the library a few months ago about atrocities
committed against German civilians after the war ended. There may have been
some, probably was, but the author's claims seemed a little too incredible. No
time for that nonsense.

I also put them down when the author digresses too much. Last week I started
into a book called "Ghost Empire: How the French Almost Conquered North
America" about LaSalle's excursions into the southern US. The history bits
were interesting enough, but the author kept getting side tacked and talking
about some of the experts he interviewed along the way. There was more
digression than information on the title topic, so I packed it in.

I have given up on humorous books, unless they are very short. There are only
so many jokes that you can take in a sitting. Leslie Nielson's autobiography
was extremely funny, but more comedy than autobiography.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

In article <48290356.B18360A@sympatico.ca>,
Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:


> I put them down when they start making too many bizarre and paranoid comments,
> like one I picked up at the library a few months ago about atrocities
> committed against German civilians after the war ended. There may have been
> some, probably was, but the author's claims seemed a little too incredible. No
> time for that nonsense.

Hitler and Stalin cut a deal before WWII where they wouldn't invade each
other. When Hitler saw his chance, he invaded Russia. So many Russian
males died that there was a shortage after the war. I believe Russian
civilians didn't do well either. After Germany lost the war, the
Russian soldiers occupying Germany got their revenge. My mother never
talked about it, but she was obviously scarred by it. She was a German
civilian in Berlin during and after the war. My father (who met my
mother in Germany immediately after the war was over, alluded to the
behavior of the Russian soldiers.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
dabel@sonic,net

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Dan Abel wrote:

> In article <48290356.B18360A@sympatico.ca>,
> Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > I put them down when they start making too many bizarre and paranoid comments,
> > like one I picked up at the library a few months ago about atrocities
> > committed against German civilians after the war ended. There may have been
> > some, probably was, but the author's claims seemed a little too incredible. No
> > time for that nonsense.
>
> Hitler and Stalin cut a deal before WWII where they wouldn't invade each
> other. When Hitler saw his chance, he invaded Russia.

There was a little more to it than that. The Molotov- von Ribbentop Pact was a
non-agression treaty with a secondary agenda, to divide eastern Europe into areas
of german influence and areas of soviet influence. It was a like making a deal with
the devil, or in this case, a deal between two devils.


> So many Russian
> males died that there was a shortage after the war. I believe Russian
> civilians didn't do well either. After Germany lost the war, the
> Russian soldiers occupying Germany got their revenge. My mother never
> talked about it, but she was obviously scarred by it. She was a German
> civilian in Berlin during and after the war. My father (who met my
> mother in Germany immediately after the war was over, alluded to the
> behavior of the Russian soldiers.
>

I should have been more clear about the allegations in the book. They seemed to be
made against the western allies. Even lumping the soviet acts of revenge in with the
west makes it look as if they were in collusion. I did not get far enough to see if
the author acknowledged that this sort of activity was a contributing factor in the
Cold War. It could be argued that they deserved what they got, but the war was over,
and they did suffer during the war. Now some apologists are whining that the air
raids that pounded Germany night and day for the better part of 4 years was nothing
more than an act of terrorism that targeted civilians and that it did nothing to
secure victory. I disagree.

On a similar note, every August we hear people complain about the atomic bombs being
dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki being an atrocity. They should read The Rape of
Nanking, where Japanese soldiers slaughtered 300,000 civilians, mainly for sport, or
accounts of treatment in POW camps and civilian internment camps. At least the
Germans accepted defeat and are embarrassed by their Nazi past. The Japanese do not
even acknowledge their atrocities and their government tries to keep the facts from
the people.


FWIW. my sister in law was a young girl in Vienna and remembers the arrival of the
Soviet troops. They posted a guard in front of their apartment building because
their were young girls in the building.



> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
> dabel@sonic,net

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

On Tue, 13 May 2008 09:40:49 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> In article <48290356.B18360A@sympatico.ca>,
>> Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > I put them down when they start making too many bizarre and paranoid comments,
>> > like one I picked up at the library a few months ago about atrocities
>> > committed against German civilians after the war ended. There may have been
>> > some, probably was, but the author's claims seemed a little too incredible. No
>> > time for that nonsense.
>>
>> Hitler and Stalin cut a deal before WWII where they wouldn't invade each
>> other. When Hitler saw his chance, he invaded Russia.
>
>There was a little more to it than that. The Molotov- von Ribbentop Pact was a
>non-agression treaty with a secondary agenda, to divide eastern Europe into areas
>of german influence and areas of soviet influence. It was a like making a deal with
>the devil, or in this case, a deal between two devils.
>
>
>> So many Russian
>> males died that there was a shortage after the war. I believe Russian
>> civilians didn't do well either. After Germany lost the war, the
>> Russian soldiers occupying Germany got their revenge. My mother never
>> talked about it, but she was obviously scarred by it. She was a German
>> civilian in Berlin during and after the war. My father (who met my
>> mother in Germany immediately after the war was over, alluded to the
>> behavior of the Russian soldiers.
>>
>
>I should have been more clear about the allegations in the book. They seemed to be
>made against the western allies. Even lumping the soviet acts of revenge in with the
>west makes it look as if they were in collusion. I did not get far enough to see if
>the author acknowledged that this sort of activity was a contributing factor in the
>Cold War. It could be argued that they deserved what they got, but the war was over,
>and they did suffer during the war. Now some apologists are whining that the air
>raids that pounded Germany night and day for the better part of 4 years was nothing
>more than an act of terrorism that targeted civilians and that it did nothing to
>secure victory. I disagree.
>
>On a similar note, every August we hear people complain about the atomic bombs being
>dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki being an atrocity. They should read The Rape of
>Nanking, where Japanese soldiers slaughtered 300,000 civilians, mainly for sport, or
>accounts of treatment in POW camps and civilian internment camps. At least the
>Germans accepted defeat and are embarrassed by their Nazi past. The Japanese do not
>even acknowledge their atrocities and their government tries to keep the facts from
>the people.
>

yet you seem to object to americans acknowledging that we killed many
civilians as well. when you lose, this becomes a war crime.

your pal,
blake

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

blake murphy wrote:

>
> >On a similar note, every August we hear people complain about the atomic bombs being
> >dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki being an atrocity. They should read The Rape of
> >Nanking, where Japanese soldiers slaughtered 300,000 civilians, mainly for sport, or
> >accounts of treatment in POW camps and civilian internment camps. At least the
> >Germans accepted defeat and are embarrassed by their Nazi past. The Japanese do not
> >even acknowledge their atrocities and their government tries to keep the facts from
> >the people.
> >
>
> yet you seem to object to americans acknowledging that we killed many
> civilians as well. when you lose, this becomes a war crime.

I seem to? We didn't start the war. Nazi Germany was the one started invading its
neighbours in order to dominate and subjugate, murdered and imprisoned political
opposition, round up Jews, Gypsies and others to be worked to death or gassed. Japan had
been committing atrocities in China for a number of years before the conflict in that
region became part of the World War. The Japanese and German civilians were part of the
war machinery and their armed forces were the first to use aerial bombing on civilian
populations. They reaped what they sowed. I don't have much sympathy for them.
Unfortunately, there were collateral casualties, like the slave labour and POWs who were
hit with bombs.

If you want to know about American atrocities, read "Flyboys". While it is primarily
about the fate of American Flyers captured in Chichi Jima, the author starts off
detailing the growth of Japan's militarism and the American atrocities in the
Philippines. It also talked about American atrocities during the war. For instance, we
were all fed stories about the tenacity of Japanese troops and the patriotic fervour and
Samurai sense of honour that required that they fight to the death rather than surrender
and that was used to explain why only a very small percentage of Japanese soldiers
surrendered. The author claims that the high death rate was partially the result of the
American orders not to take prisoners, so a lot of surrendering Japanese soldiers were
summarily executed.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Dave Smith wrote:

> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > I have read a couple of the books on your list, Armageddon and the
>> > Battle of the River Platte. Since you have done some reading on the
>> > Italian campaign you might be interested in "The D Day Dodgers" which
>> > chronicles the advance of Canadian troops through Sicily and Italy. On
>> > of my uncles is mentioned in that one. He was the first
>>
>> Used to vacation in Canada, when I was growing up in Michigan about a
>> two-hour drive from Windsor and a little more from Sarnia.
>>
>> > to cross the Hitler line and ring the bell in the church at Porto Cuervo
>> > <sp?> to give the all clear.
>>
>> That's a nice little distinction.
>
> He never talked much about the war, but he did tell me about that incident.
> It seems that he tumbled down a hill rolled around in some mud on the way into
> the town, and gave the all clear when they found the Germans had pulled out.
> Then he checked his pistol and found the barrel was plugged with mud. Good
> thing he didn't have to use it :-)

I guess so!

>> "Naples '44" was a first-person account, as well, from an intel officer
>> assigned there after it liberation. Its picture is of the culture and its
>> people.
>>
>> Perhaps the only WWII book I've put down is "Utah Beach" (Joseph
>> Balkoski). It's mostly strung-together personal accounts, with connecting
>> notes about every yard gained or lost. Not to discredit their work or
>> the author's -- but I can only read pinned-down-by-heavy-MG-fire anecdotes
>> so many times in one sitting, before each page becomes just like the last
>> one but with different squad leaders' names.
>
> I put them down when they start making too many bizarre and paranoid comments,
> like one I picked up at the library a few months ago about atrocities
> committed against German civilians after the war ended. There may have been
> some, probably was, but the author's claims seemed a little too incredible. No
> time for that nonsense.

By the Russians, I assume.

> I also put them down when the author digresses too much. Last week I started
> into a book called "Ghost Empire: How the French Almost Conquered North
> America" about LaSalle's excursions into the southern US. The history bits
> were interesting enough, but the author kept getting side tacked and talking
> about some of the experts he interviewed along the way. There was more
> digression than information on the title topic, so I packed it in.
>
> I have given up on humorous books, unless they are very short. There are only
> so many jokes that you can take in a sitting. Leslie Nielson's autobiography
> was extremely funny, but more comedy than autobiography.

I don't know how good Steve Martin's new biography is (or its mix of
comedy and biography), but I read an article in Esquire that I think was
excerpted from it, and it was an interesting - and naturally anecdote-rich
- look at how his comedy style developed.

Also Hollywood-related (something I rarely read, despite being involved
with it), I've heard good about Charles Grodin's "It Would Be So Nice If
You Weren't Here: My Journey Through Show Business". I borrowed it from a
friend last week; last night I finished "A Farewell To Arms", so I'll
start this one tonight.


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Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

Blinky the Shark wrote:

>
> > I have given up on humorous books, unless they are very short. There are only
> > so many jokes that you can take in a sitting. Leslie Nielson's autobiography
> > was extremely funny, but more comedy than autobiography.
>
> I don't know how good Steve Martin's new biography is (or its mix of
> comedy and biography), but I read an article in Esquire that I think was
> excerpted from it, and it was an interesting - and naturally anecdote-rich
> - look at how his comedy style developed.

His novella "Shop Girl" was pretty good. The most enjoyable movie celebrity
autobiographies I have read were David Niven's The Moon is a Balloon ad Bring on the
Empty Horses. Then there was the book about Peter Sellars written by his son. Wow.
There is a bitter man. Sellers used to be one of my favourite comic actors but now I
can't watch a Pink Panther movie without thinking what a jerk the guy was.

>
> Also Hollywood-related (something I rarely read, despite being involved
> with it), I've heard good about Charles Grodin's "It Would Be So Nice If
> You Weren't Here: My Journey Through Show Business". I borrowed it from a
> friend last week; last night I finished "A Farewell To Arms", so I'll
> start this one tonight.

I don't usually rear novels any more, but I really enjoy Hemmingway's work. I have
read most of them. and will probably re-read them some time.

Re: OT: What book are you currently reading?

On Tue, 13 May 2008 09:47:01 -0400, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Blinky the Shark wrote:
>
>>
>> > I have given up on humorous books, unless they are very short. There are only
>> > so many jokes that you can take in a sitting. Leslie Nielson's autobiography
>> > was extremely funny, but more comedy than autobiography.
>>
>> I don't know how good Steve Martin's new biography is (or its mix of
>> comedy and biography), but I read an article in Esquire that I think was
>> excerpted from it, and it was an interesting - and naturally anecdote-rich
>> - look at how his comedy style developed.
>
>His novella "Shop Girl" was pretty good. The most enjoyable movie celebrity
>autobiographies I have read were David Niven's The Moon is a Balloon ad Bring on the
>Empty Horses. Then there was the book about Peter Sellars written by his son. Wow.
>There is a bitter man. Sellers used to be one of my favourite comic actors but now I
>can't watch a Pink Panther movie without thinking what a jerk the guy was.
>

trust the art, not the artist.

your pal,
blake