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Water temperature question
Water temperature question
Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
a decent pot of black tea!.
Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
attachments. So here's my question.
What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
pot of tea.
Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
- the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
- water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
the cup is first disturbed.
--
Rostyk
Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
a decent pot of black tea!.
Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
attachments. So here's my question.
What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
pot of tea.
Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
- the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
- water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
the cup is first disturbed.
--
Rostyk
Re: Water temperature question
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
> a decent pot of black tea!.
> Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
> attachments. So here's my question.
> What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
> of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
> and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
> the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
> pot of tea.
> Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
> - the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
> - water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
> the cup is first disturbed.
Luckily, over here we have no such problem, in fact the opposite - I
keep cracking cups as they are often cold (in the trailer) when the
boiling water hits them.
You can steam hot water to boiling in a few seconds, so yes, I'd ask
the barista to do that before adding the tea.
--
Regards, Danny
http :// www .gaggia-espresso,com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
> a decent pot of black tea!.
> Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
> attachments. So here's my question.
> What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
> of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
> and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
> the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
> pot of tea.
> Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
> - the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
> - water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
> the cup is first disturbed.
Luckily, over here we have no such problem, in fact the opposite - I
keep cracking cups as they are often cold (in the trailer) when the
boiling water hits them.
You can steam hot water to boiling in a few seconds, so yes, I'd ask
the barista to do that before adding the tea.
--
Regards, Danny
http :// www .gaggia-espresso,com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)
Re: Water temperature question
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth,net > writes:
> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> of NO BOILING WATER!.
Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth,net > writes:
> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> of NO BOILING WATER!.
Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
Re: Water temperature question
It's not true.
"Lewis Perin" <perin@panix,com > wrote in message
news:pc78xa7dckg.fsf@panix2.panix,com ...
> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth,net > writes:
>
>> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
>> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
>> of NO BOILING WATER!.
>
> Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
> restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
> http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
It's not true.
"Lewis Perin" <perin@panix,com > wrote in message
news:pc78xa7dckg.fsf@panix2.panix,com ...
> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urjlew@bellsouth,net > writes:
>
>> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
>> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
>> of NO BOILING WATER!.
>
> Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
> restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
> http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
Re: Water temperature question
On Jun 25, 4:05 pm, Lewis Perin <p...@panix,com > wrote:
> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth,net > writes:
>
> > Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> > almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> > of NO BOILING WATER!.
>
> Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
> restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin / p...@acm.org http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
I was just thinking the same thing. I think the reason we don't get
black tea made with boiling water in restaurants is due to a lack of
understanding on the part of the restaurant staff, as well as an
unwillingness to wait until the water reaches a full boil.
Non-hot tea drinkers (of which there are many in the USA) just don't
understand. I honestly think that they believe we are being too fussy
when we demand boiling water and don't realize what a huge difference
it really makes. Add to that the number of people in this country who
have become accustomed to having tea made with less than boiling water
-- or have never known anything else. People in my office can't
understand why I use a Hot Shot to make my tea instead of just using
the hot water tap on the water cooler. I try to explain and
inevitably, I am met with just blank stares.
On Jun 25, 4:05 pm, Lewis Perin <p...@panix,com > wrote:
> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth,net > writes:
>
> > Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> > almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> > of NO BOILING WATER!.
>
> Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
> restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin / p...@acm.org http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
I was just thinking the same thing. I think the reason we don't get
black tea made with boiling water in restaurants is due to a lack of
understanding on the part of the restaurant staff, as well as an
unwillingness to wait until the water reaches a full boil.
Non-hot tea drinkers (of which there are many in the USA) just don't
understand. I honestly think that they believe we are being too fussy
when we demand boiling water and don't realize what a huge difference
it really makes. Add to that the number of people in this country who
have become accustomed to having tea made with less than boiling water
-- or have never known anything else. People in my office can't
understand why I use a Hot Shot to make my tea instead of just using
the hot water tap on the water cooler. I try to explain and
inevitably, I am met with just blank stares.
Re: Water temperature question
Fran wrote:
> On Jun 25, 4:05 pm, Lewis Perin <p...@panix,com > wrote:
>> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth,net > writes:
>>
>>> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
>>> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
>>> of NO BOILING WATER!.
>> Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
>> restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
>>
>> /Lew
>> ---
>> Lew Perin / p...@acm.org http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
>
> I was just thinking the same thing. I think the reason we don't get
> black tea made with boiling water in restaurants is due to a lack of
> understanding on the part of the restaurant staff, as well as an
> unwillingness to wait until the water reaches a full boil.
>
> Non-hot tea drinkers (of which there are many in the USA) just don't
> understand. I honestly think that they believe we are being too fussy
> when we demand boiling water and don't realize what a huge difference
> it really makes. Add to that the number of people in this country who
> have become accustomed to having tea made with less than boiling water
> -- or have never known anything else. People in my office can't
> understand why I use a Hot Shot to make my tea instead of just using
> the hot water tap on the water cooler. I try to explain and
> inevitably, I am met with just blank stares.
>
What you write is quite true. But it doesn't apply to what I wrote.
First. I am not writing about a general restaurant. I am writing about
the specialized cafe bars in various establishments, specifically
in the Barnes & Noble and Borders bookstores, but it applies to cafe
bars in other locales. The bookstore bars make a point of offering
various teas and even sell tins of tea and tea brewing equipment.
So one might expect, or have expected, them to be willing and able
to brew a decent pot of black tea. However they all refuse to bring
their water to a boil. All cite employer policy, work rules.
By the way, they brew the teas in glass press pots and serve with
a ceramic mug, or fancy glasses, not paper (of foam) cups.
--
Rostyk
Fran wrote:
> On Jun 25, 4:05 pm, Lewis Perin <p...@panix,com > wrote:
>> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth,net > writes:
>>
>>> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
>>> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
>>> of NO BOILING WATER!.
>> Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
>> restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.
>>
>> /Lew
>> ---
>> Lew Perin / p...@acm.org http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
>
> I was just thinking the same thing. I think the reason we don't get
> black tea made with boiling water in restaurants is due to a lack of
> understanding on the part of the restaurant staff, as well as an
> unwillingness to wait until the water reaches a full boil.
>
> Non-hot tea drinkers (of which there are many in the USA) just don't
> understand. I honestly think that they believe we are being too fussy
> when we demand boiling water and don't realize what a huge difference
> it really makes. Add to that the number of people in this country who
> have become accustomed to having tea made with less than boiling water
> -- or have never known anything else. People in my office can't
> understand why I use a Hot Shot to make my tea instead of just using
> the hot water tap on the water cooler. I try to explain and
> inevitably, I am met with just blank stares.
>
What you write is quite true. But it doesn't apply to what I wrote.
First. I am not writing about a general restaurant. I am writing about
the specialized cafe bars in various establishments, specifically
in the Barnes & Noble and Borders bookstores, but it applies to cafe
bars in other locales. The bookstore bars make a point of offering
various teas and even sell tins of tea and tea brewing equipment.
So one might expect, or have expected, them to be willing and able
to brew a decent pot of black tea. However they all refuse to bring
their water to a boil. All cite employer policy, work rules.
By the way, they brew the teas in glass press pots and serve with
a ceramic mug, or fancy glasses, not paper (of foam) cups.
--
Rostyk
Re: Water temperature question
Finding the keyboard operational
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj entered:
> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
> a decent pot of black tea!.
> Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
> attachments. So here's my question.
> What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
> of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
> and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
> the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
> pot of tea.
> Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
> - the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
> - water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
> the cup is first disturbed.
Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www .moondoggiecoffee,com
Finding the keyboard operational
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj entered:
> Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
> almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
> of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
> a decent pot of black tea!.
> Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
> attachments. So here's my question.
> What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
> of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
> and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
> the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
> pot of tea.
> Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
> - the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
> - water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
> the cup is first disturbed.
Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
Bob
--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www .moondoggiecoffee,com
Re: Water temperature question
> Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
> imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
> Bob
I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
remarkably easy to burn oneself.
> Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
> imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
> Bob
I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
remarkably easy to burn oneself.
Re: Water temperature question
TeaDave wrote:
> I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
> cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
> there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
> maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
> pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
> the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
> directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
> remarkably easy to burn oneself.
>
I doubt that many espresso machines can operate without boiling the
water unless it's a twin boiler with the brew boiler below boiling, or
the more usual system of mixing cold water with the boiler water
before the dispenser. Could explain a lot of bad espresso though.
--
Regards, Danny
http :// www .gaggia-espresso,com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)
TeaDave wrote:
> I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
> cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
> there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
> maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
> pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
> the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
> directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
> remarkably easy to burn oneself.
>
I doubt that many espresso machines can operate without boiling the
water unless it's a twin boiler with the brew boiler below boiling, or
the more usual system of mixing cold water with the boiler water
before the dispenser. Could explain a lot of bad espresso though.
--
Regards, Danny
http :// www .gaggia-espresso,com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)
Re: Water temperature question
>the espresso machine and drip coffee
>maker we have don't bring the water to a boil.
Might be against the local laws, but definitely impossible under the laws of
thermodynamics, which are far more rigorous than any local ordinance.
--
Alan
alanfrew@coffeeco,com .au
www .coffeeco,com .au
>the espresso machine and drip coffee
>maker we have don't bring the water to a boil.
Might be against the local laws, but definitely impossible under the laws of
thermodynamics, which are far more rigorous than any local ordinance.
--
Alan
alanfrew@coffeeco,com .au
www .coffeeco,com .au
Re: Water temperature question
TeaDave wrote:
>> Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
>> imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
>> Bob
>
> I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
> cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
> there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
> maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
> pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
> the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
> directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
> remarkably easy to burn oneself.
>
Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more dangerous
than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the hot water provided
for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the brewing cup
with its tea and plunger.
Well it looks like I'll have to stick to green teas at the cafe
in the local Barnes and Noble or Borders book stores. :(
Even in restaurants getting tea brewed with boiling water is almost
impossible around here. :(, and they usually have only the dinky
one cup capacity pots and no choice in teas.
--
Rostyk
TeaDave wrote:
>> Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
>> imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
>> Bob
>
> I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
> cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
> there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
> maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
> pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
> the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
> directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
> remarkably easy to burn oneself.
>
Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more dangerous
than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the hot water provided
for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the brewing cup
with its tea and plunger.
Well it looks like I'll have to stick to green teas at the cafe
in the local Barnes and Noble or Borders book stores. :(
Even in restaurants getting tea brewed with boiling water is almost
impossible around here. :(, and they usually have only the dinky
one cup capacity pots and no choice in teas.
--
Rostyk
Re: Water temperature question
Am 26 Jun 2007, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj schrieb:
> Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more
> dangerous than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water
> provided for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the
> brewing cup with its tea and plunger. Well it looks like I'll have to
> stick to green teas at the cafe in the local Barnes and Noble or
> Borders book stores. :(
Considering the quality of the tea you would get, this is no great
loss. Of course, the green tea is never very good, either.
--
barutanseijin@gmail,com
Am 26 Jun 2007, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj schrieb:
> Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more
> dangerous than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water
> provided for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the
> brewing cup with its tea and plunger. Well it looks like I'll have to
> stick to green teas at the cafe in the local Barnes and Noble or
> Borders book stores. :(
Considering the quality of the tea you would get, this is no great
loss. Of course, the green tea is never very good, either.
--
barutanseijin@gmail,com
Re: Water temperature question
Barutan Seijin <barutanseijin@gmail,com > writes:
> Am 26 Jun 2007, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj schrieb:
>
>
> > Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more
> > dangerous than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water
> > provided for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the
> > brewing cup with its tea and plunger. Well it looks like I'll have to
> > stick to green teas at the cafe in the local Barnes and Noble or
> > Borders book stores. :(
>
> Considering the quality of the tea you would get, this is no great
> loss. Of course, the green tea is never very good, either.
Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than
that of almost any green tea...
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
Barutan Seijin <barutanseijin@gmail,com > writes:
> Am 26 Jun 2007, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj schrieb:
>
>
> > Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more
> > dangerous than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water
> > provided for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the
> > brewing cup with its tea and plunger. Well it looks like I'll have to
> > stick to green teas at the cafe in the local Barnes and Noble or
> > Borders book stores. :(
>
> Considering the quality of the tea you would get, this is no great
> loss. Of course, the green tea is never very good, either.
Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than
that of almost any green tea...
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
Re: Water temperature question
Am 27 Jun 2007, Lewis Perin schrieb:
> Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than
> that of almost any green tea...
That's true of the stale green tea in a bag you're likely to get in a
café in the US.
I'm guessing you've never had matcha. That'll knock your socks off.
--
barutanseijin@gmail,com
Am 27 Jun 2007, Lewis Perin schrieb:
> Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than
> that of almost any green tea...
That's true of the stale green tea in a bag you're likely to get in a
café in the US.
I'm guessing you've never had matcha. That'll knock your socks off.
--
barutanseijin@gmail,com
Re: Water temperature question
Barutan Seijin <barutanseijin@gmail,com > writes:
> Am 27 Jun 2007, Lewis Perin schrieb:
>
>
>
> > Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than
> > that of almost any green tea...
>
> That's true of the stale green tea in a bag you're likely to get in a
> café in the US.
It's also true of subtle green teas that are completely fresh.
> I'm guessing you've never had matcha. That'll knock your socks off.
I'd forgotten matcha. You're right; its taste should dominate a paper
cup's.
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
Barutan Seijin <barutanseijin@gmail,com > writes:
> Am 27 Jun 2007, Lewis Perin schrieb:
>
>
>
> > Not to mention the fact that the taste of a paper cup is stronger than
> > that of almost any green tea...
>
> That's true of the stale green tea in a bag you're likely to get in a
> café in the US.
It's also true of subtle green teas that are completely fresh.
> I'm guessing you've never had matcha. That'll knock your socks off.
I'd forgotten matcha. You're right; its taste should dominate a paper
cup's.
/Lew
---
Lew Perin / perin@acm.org
http :// www .panix,com /~perin/babelcarp.html
