Batali 6-qt enameled pot

Batali 6-qt enameled pot

Yesterday I inadvertently posted to rec.food.cooking for advise
regarding a chip in my recently received pot.

http :// www .amazon,com /Mario-Batali-Italian-Essentials-Persimmon/dp/B000AAYDJO/sr=8-2/qid72243372/ref=pd bbs sr 2/102-2406054-7640147?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden

I did receive some good advice about other things regarding this
purchase, but regarding this, I asked:
"So today I am wondering about my pot because it is chipped on the
top
rim a little, which is not enough to matter (I don't think) in the
scheme of cooking."

http :// tinypic,com /2exvnv5.jpg

This is a picture of the rim where the lid fits down onto the pot.
BTW, the lid has the spikes for condensation.

However, I received from one reply a statement which advises, and says
in part:

"So, will they replace the pot (it's dangerous to use with that
chip),..."

Dangerous is alarming to me. I don't quite understand. I did ask
responder, no response yet.

Thanks for any help.

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

In article <1172243471.693599.270330@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups,com >,
deedovey@shentel,net says...
> Yesterday I inadvertently posted to rec.food.cooking for advise
> regarding a chip in my recently received pot.
>
> http :// www .amazon,com /Mario-Batali-Italian-Essentials-Persimmon/dp/B000AAYDJO/sr=8-2/qid=1172243372/ref=pd bbs sr 2/102-2406054-7640147?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden
>
> I did receive some good advice about other things regarding this
> purchase, but regarding this, I asked:
> "So today I am wondering about my pot because it is chipped on the
> top
> rim a little, which is not enough to matter (I don't think) in the
> scheme of cooking."
>
> http :// tinypic,com /2exvnv5.jpg
>
> This is a picture of the rim where the lid fits down onto the pot.
> BTW, the lid has the spikes for condensation.
>
> However, I received from one reply a statement which advises, and says
> in part:
>
> "So, will they replace the pot (it's dangerous to use with that
> chip),..."
>
> Dangerous is alarming to me. I don't quite understand. I did ask
> responder, no response yet.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>

Whoever suggested "danger" from this chip is full of hooey. It looks
more like a manufacturing defect than a chip, but in either case it just
means that the metal (these pots are made of cast iron under the enamel
coating) is exposed, just like it is all around the rim. If the defect
were on the bottom where it would regularly be exposed to whatever
you're cooking, you might worry about rust of some other problem as the
pot is used (but still no danger). Given its location on the rim, you
can forget about it and get on with your cooking.

--
Peter Aitken

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

On Feb 23, 10:26 am, Peter A <pait...@CRAPnc.rr,com > wrote:
> In article <1172243471.693599.270...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups,com >,
> deedo...@shentel,net says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yesterday I inadvertently posted to rec.food.cooking for advise
> > regarding a chip in my recently received pot.
>
> > http :// www .amazon,com /Mario-Batali-Italian-Essentials-Persimmon/dp/B0...
>
> > I did receive some good advice about other things regarding this
> > purchase, but regarding this, I asked:
> > "So today I am wondering about my pot because it is chipped on the
> > top
> > rim a little, which is not enough to matter (I don't think) in the
> > scheme of cooking."
>
> > http :// tinypic,com /2exvnv5.jpg
>
> > This is a picture of the rim where the lid fits down onto the pot.
> > BTW, the lid has the spikes for condensation.
>
> > However, I received from one reply a statement which advises, and says
> > in part:
>
> > "So, will they replace the pot (it's dangerous to use with that
> > chip),..."
>
> > Dangerous is alarming to me. I don't quite understand. I did ask
> > responder, no response yet.
>
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> Whoever suggested "danger" from this chip is full of hooey. It looks
> more like a manufacturing defect than a chip, but in either case it just
> means that the metal (these pots are made of cast iron under the enamel
> coating) is exposed, just like it is all around the rim. If the defect
> were on the bottom where it would regularly be exposed to whatever
> you're cooking, you might worry about rust of some other problem as the
> pot is used (but still no danger). Given its location on the rim, you
> can forget about it and get on with your cooking.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks, Peter. I am going to use this pot for the infamous/famous NY
bread.
Dee

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

"Peter A" <paitken@CRAPnc.rr,com > wrote:
> Whoever suggested "danger" from this chip is full of hooey. It looks
> more like a manufacturing defect than a chip, but in either case it just
> means that the metal (these pots are made of cast iron under the enamel
> coating) is exposed, just like it is all around the rim. If the defect
> were on the bottom where it would regularly be exposed to whatever
> you're cooking, you might worry about rust of some other problem as the
> pot is used (but still no danger). Given its location on the rim, you
> can forget about it and get on with your cooking.

Looks more like a manufacturing defect to me also, where the enamel did not
completely cover. It might also be true that no metal is exposed. I know on
LeCreuset, they use two coats of enamel, a gray undercoat and then a colored
overcoat (perhaps white inside and red outside). The undercoat is fired
first at a higher temperature, then the overcoat is applied and fired at a
lower temperature. The gray undercoat, which has a higher melting point,
will not melt when the colored overcoat is fired.

This is a rather clever system they came up with so that no bare metal is
exposed. In older (1950s/60s) enameled cast iron cookware, the rims and
bases were usually bare metal. If you have ever tried to paint an object all
over and then set it down, you'd see the inherent problem. The problem also
presents itself on ceramic ware. Often there is a unglazed lower rim on
those, or three points where the object rested on "stilts" (can't remember
the correct term) while being fired.

So the exposed area might just be the undercoat that is exposed (as it would
be on the rim in any case), and not bare metal. I'm not familiar with Mario
Batali products. You should be able to tell whether it's bare metal at the
rim (and base) by carefully looking.

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

On Feb 23, 1:26 pm, "wff ng 7" <nosuchu...@invalid.gov> wrote:
> "Peter A" <pait...@CRAPnc.rr,com > wrote:
> > Whoever suggested "danger" from this chip is full of hooey. It looks
> > more like a manufacturing defect than a chip, but in either case it just
> > means that the metal (these pots are made of cast iron under the enamel
> > coating) is exposed, just like it is all around the rim. If the defect
> > were on the bottom where it would regularly be exposed to whatever
> > you're cooking, you might worry about rust of some other problem as the
> > pot is used (but still no danger). Given its location on the rim, you
> > can forget about it and get on with your cooking.
>
> Looks more like a manufacturing defect to me also, where the enamel did not
> completely cover. It might also be true that no metal is exposed. I know on
> LeCreuset, they use two coats of enamel, a gray undercoat and then a colored
> overcoat (perhaps white inside and red outside). The undercoat is fired
> first at a higher temperature, then the overcoat is applied and fired at a
> lower temperature. The gray undercoat, which has a higher melting point,
> will not melt when the colored overcoat is fired.
>
> This is a rather clever system they came up with so that no bare metal is
> exposed. In older (1950s/60s) enameled cast iron cookware, the rims and
> bases were usually bare metal. If you have ever tried to paint an object all
> over and then set it down, you'd see the inherent problem. The problem also
> presents itself on ceramic ware. Often there is a unglazed lower rim on
> those, or three points where the object rested on "stilts" (can't remember
> the correct term) while being fired.
>
> So the exposed area might just be the undercoat that is exposed (as it would
> be on the rim in any case), and not bare metal. I'm not familiar with Mario
> Batali products. You should be able to tell whether it's bare metal at the
> rim (and base) by carefully looking.


Thank you.
Mario Batali is selling iron enameled pots made by Copco.

Here is more the "dangerous" answer from rec.food.cooking, which is
available for anyone to see under my OP "Just whining about a
purchase"
Response:
"Over time and with use that chip will become larger (that area will
also rust), and porcelain is glass (that's not enamel, it's
porcelain), so where do you think the next glass sliver will end
up...
in sombody's intestines of course... chipped porcelainized cookware
is
very dangerous, get rid of it. Porcelainized cookware is very old
fashioned, developed as a way to have nonreactive cookware before the
advent of stainless steel. I'd not own any porcelainized cast
iron, ...."

I went back to the amazon site and it does say:
"made of cast iron with porcelain-enamel interior and exterior"

Now, I'm worried again; I'm digging a bigger hole for myself. :-(

Thanks.
Dee

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

Dee Dee wrote:
> On Feb 23, 1:26 pm, "wff ng 7" <nosuchu...@invalid.gov> wrote:
>> "Peter A" <pait...@CRAPnc.rr,com > wrote:
>>> Whoever suggested "danger" from this chip is full of hooey. It looks
>>> more like a manufacturing defect than a chip, but in either case it just
>>> means that the metal (these pots are made of cast iron under the enamel
>>> coating) is exposed, just like it is all around the rim. If the defect
>>> were on the bottom where it would regularly be exposed to whatever
>>> you're cooking, you might worry about rust of some other problem as the
>>> pot is used (but still no danger). Given its location on the rim, you
>>> can forget about it and get on with your cooking.
>> Looks more like a manufacturing defect to me also, where the enamel did not
>> completely cover. It might also be true that no metal is exposed. I know on
>> LeCreuset, they use two coats of enamel, a gray undercoat and then a colored
>> overcoat (perhaps white inside and red outside). The undercoat is fired
>> first at a higher temperature, then the overcoat is applied and fired at a
>> lower temperature. The gray undercoat, which has a higher melting point,
>> will not melt when the colored overcoat is fired.
>>
>> This is a rather clever system they came up with so that no bare metal is
>> exposed. In older (1950s/60s) enameled cast iron cookware, the rims and
>> bases were usually bare metal. If you have ever tried to paint an object all
>> over and then set it down, you'd see the inherent problem. The problem also
>> presents itself on ceramic ware. Often there is a unglazed lower rim on
>> those, or three points where the object rested on "stilts" (can't remember
>> the correct term) while being fired.
>>
>> So the exposed area might just be the undercoat that is exposed (as it would
>> be on the rim in any case), and not bare metal. I'm not familiar with Mario
>> Batali products. You should be able to tell whether it's bare metal at the
>> rim (and base) by carefully looking.
>
>
> Thank you.
> Mario Batali is selling iron enameled pots made by Copco.
>
> Here is more the "dangerous" answer from rec.food.cooking, which is
> available for anyone to see under my OP "Just whining about a
> purchase"
> Response:
> "Over time and with use that chip will become larger (that area will
> also rust), and porcelain is glass (that's not enamel, it's
> porcelain), so where do you think the next glass sliver will end
> up...
> in sombody's intestines of course... chipped porcelainized cookware
> is
> very dangerous, get rid of it. Porcelainized cookware is very old
> fashioned, developed as a way to have nonreactive cookware before the
> advent of stainless steel. I'd not own any porcelainized cast
> iron, ...."
>
> I went back to the amazon site and it does say:
> "made of cast iron with porcelain-enamel interior and exterior"
>
> Now, I'm worried again; I'm digging a bigger hole for myself. :-(
>
> Thanks.
> Dee

It IS enamel. Enameling is just a process of getting the porcelain onto
the cookware metal. It starts out as a paste of very fine glass that
gets melted and bonds to the cast iron. I don't see how you are going
to get dangerous slivers of glass from a bounded hardened coating. And I
have never seen flakes come off of good quality porcelain enameled
cookware like Le Creuset, Descoware or Copco. I have some 60 year old
Descoware which is in perfect condition. I few pieces have some light
dark marks on the bottom but no incised type scratches. Then again,
maybe they made it better ages ago. I have some newer pieces and they
seem okay for me but then I rarely use metal in them and when I do I
don't do the gouge thing, just stirring and turning. Or maybe I'll use
tongs and they're metal.

But for what you want it for, like baking the NYT bread, you'll never be
poking and or stabbing with metal and never near the edge. By your
photo, it really looks like manufacturing defect though I hate calling
it defect. I think it's just a small place where the metal didn't cover
completely like around the topmost rim. I wouldn't expect rust or
chipping to occur at all.

Melondy

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

> > I went back to the amazon site and it does say:
> > "made of cast iron with porcelain-enamel interior and exterior"
>
> > Now, I'm worried again; I'm digging a bigger hole for myself. :-(
>
> > Thanks.
> > Dee
>
> It IS enamel. Enameling is just a process of getting the porcelain onto
> the cookware metal. It starts out as a paste of very fine glass that
> gets melted and bonds to the cast iron. I don't see how you are going
> to get dangerous slivers of glass from a bounded hardened coating. And I
> have never seen flakes come off of good quality porcelain enameled
> cookware like Le Creuset, Descoware or Copco.

> But for what you want it for, like baking the NYT bread, you'll never be
> poking and or stabbing with metal and never near the edge. By your
> photo, it really looks like manufacturing defect though I hate calling
> it defect. I think it's just a small place where the metal didn't cover
> completely like around the topmost rim. I wouldn't expect rust or
> chipping to occur at all.
>
> Melondy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you, Melondy for your thoughtful answer. It makes me feel
better.
:-))
Dee

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

"Dee Dee" <deedovey@shentel,net > wrote:
> Thank you.
> Mario Batali is selling iron enameled pots made by Copco.
>
> Here is more the "dangerous" answer from rec.food.cooking, which is
> available for anyone to see under my OP "Just whining about a
> purchase"
> Response:
> "Over time and with use that chip will become larger (that area will
> also rust), and porcelain is glass (that's not enamel, it's
> porcelain), so where do you think the next glass sliver will end
> up...
> in sombody's intestines of course... chipped porcelainized cookware
> is
> very dangerous, get rid of it. Porcelainized cookware is very old
> fashioned, developed as a way to have nonreactive cookware before the
> advent of stainless steel. I'd not own any porcelainized cast
> iron, ...."
>
> I went back to the amazon site and it does say:
> "made of cast iron with porcelain-enamel interior and exterior"
>
> Now, I'm worried again; I'm digging a bigger hole for myself. :-(

Regarding the "dangerous" response, consider the source! ;-) I didn't see
that post at first, but I should have known who it was.

Porcelain enamel IS glass, that is true. But the glossy surface (the glaze)
on all ceramics is also glass. Does that poster suggest that one not eat off
of ceramic dishes? Not drink out of glass glasses? Not store drinks in glass
pitchers?

Porcelain enamel is fairly common in things around the house. Normally
stoves are finished in porcelain enamel, as are the tops of washers and
dryers. Many washers and dryers also use porcelain enamel drums (those that
are not made of stainless steel). The insides of most hot water heaters are
porcelain enameled. In fact, they used to use the term "glass lined" on hot
water heaters.

I can't see a chip coming off and causing intestinal damage. It's almost
humorous what that poster recommended if you want "color". Use crockery
ovenware. I guess he doesn't know that ceramics are coated with a glass
glaze! ;-)

I guess we're not supposed to live in a world full of color. Maybe things
are supposed to be like the current Campbell's Soup commercials on TV - in a
world without color.

I love all my brightly colored porcelain enameled cast iron cookware. I have
a couple dozen pieces, ranging from 50+ years old to about 5 years old. All
beautiful stuff.

By chance I did come across some Mario Batali cookware today. I probably
looked at the same piece you bought, but in white. It appears that Mario
Batali cookware does use the undercoat/overcoat enamel system I mentioned,
with no bare metal surfaces. So it would seem that area on the rim of the
piece you got is not bare metal, just an area where the white overcoat
doesn't quite cover the blackish undercoat. The reason I don't believe it to
be a chip is that the edges of the area are very smooth, like when you miss
a spot when you are painting something. A chip would have a sharp edge.

On LeCreuset that spot might relegate the piece to the seconds category, or
maybe it wouldn't. Performance wise it makes no difference.

I know what you mean about not wanting to return it. It can be a lot of
trouble and sometimes the replacement piece is worse than what you
originally got. If something has a minor (cosmetic) defect that does not
affect performance in any way, I'm more likely to just keep an item these
days.

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot

On Feb 23, 4:45 pm, "wff ng 7" <nosuchu...@invalid.gov> wrote:


> Porcelain enamel IS glass, that is true. But the glossy surface (the glaze)
> on all ceramics is also glass. Does that poster suggest that one not eat off
> of ceramic dishes? Not drink out of glass glasses? Not store drinks in glass
> pitchers?
>
> Porcelain enamel is fairly common in things around the house. Normally
> stoves are finished in porcelain enamel, as are the tops of washers and
> dryers. Many washers and dryers also use porcelain enamel drums (those that
> are not made of stainless steel). The insides of most hot water heaters are
> porcelain enameled. In fact, they used to use the term "glass lined" on hot
> water heaters.
>
> I can't see a chip coming off and causing intestinal damage. It's almost
> humorous what that poster recommended if you want "color". Use crockery
> ovenware. I guess he doesn't know that ceramics are coated with a glass
> glaze! ;-)
>
>
> I love all my brightly colored porcelain enameled cast iron cookware. I have
> a couple dozen pieces, ranging from 50+ years old to about 5 years old. All
> beautiful stuff.


> By chance I did come across some Mario Batali cookware today. I probably
> looked at the same piece you bought, but in white. It appears that Mario
> Batali cookware does use the undercoat/overcoat enamel system I mentioned,
> with no bare metal surfaces. So it would seem that area on the rim of the
> piece you got is not bare metal, just an area where the white overcoat
> doesn't quite cover the blackish undercoat. The reason I don't believe it to
> be a chip is that the edges of the area are very smooth, like when you miss
> a spot when you are painting something. A chip would have a sharp edge.
>
> On LeCreuset that spot might relegate the piece to the seconds category, or
> maybe it wouldn't. Performance wise it makes no difference.
>
> I know what you mean about not wanting to return it. It can be a lot of
> trouble and sometimes the replacement piece is worse than what you
> originally got. If something has a minor (cosmetic) defect that does not
> affect performance in any way, I'm more likely to just keep an item these
> days.-

Ah, returning an item is a nightmare - the first thing DH said is that
he just took the box and packing to the dump; what will we pack it
in. And you are right, one might just get an item that is worse.
This happened to me a few months ago when I bought a cheese press; the
first one looked totally used; the second one didn't fit, and the
third was a charm. But something about returning an makes one feel
that one is just a little picky -- even though we know it's not true.

I'm feeling a bit better now. Thanks for your chatting with me about
it and giving me information. I've been cooking all day, so it's time
to relax over this situation, now that it's under control. I will not
have a glass of 'red' wine, as my dentist Tuesday 'installed' 3
Temporary crowns (front) and the last thing he told me was that they
are not CERAMIC, but plastic, and they will absorb, so drink 'white'
wine. Oh, Oh, the crowns are 2nd color from the top of the white
chart, perhaps I should've chosen black - would they have cost less?
ha ha!

Thanks so much for your time in helping me and giving me scientific
information.

Dee

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot


"Dee Dee" <deedovey@shentel,net > wrote in message
news:1172257047.324916.280690@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups,com ...
> On Feb 23, 1:26 pm, "wff_ng_7" <nosuchu...@invalid.gov> wrote:
>> "Peter A" <pait...@CRAPnc.rr,com > wrote:
>> > Whoever suggested "danger" from this chip is full of hooey. It looks
>> > more like a manufacturing defect than a chip, but in either case it
>> > just
>> > means that the metal (these pots are made of cast iron under the
>> > enamel
>> > coating) is exposed, just like it is all around the rim. If the
>> > defect
>> > were on the bottom where it would regularly be exposed to whatever
>> > you're cooking, you might worry about rust of some other problem as
>> > the
>> > pot is used (but still no danger). Given its location on the rim,
>> > you
>> > can forget about it and get on with your cooking.
>>
>> Looks more like a manufacturing defect to me also, where the enamel
>> did not
>> completely cover. It might also be true that no metal is exposed. I
>> know on
>> LeCreuset, they use two coats of enamel, a gray undercoat and then a
>> colored
>> overcoat (perhaps white inside and red outside). The undercoat is
>> fired
>> first at a higher temperature, then the overcoat is applied and fired
>> at a
>> lower temperature. The gray undercoat, which has a higher melting
>> point,
>> will not melt when the colored overcoat is fired.
>>
>> This is a rather clever system they came up with so that no bare metal
>> is
>> exposed. In older (1950s/60s) enameled cast iron cookware, the rims
>> and
>> bases were usually bare metal. If you have ever tried to paint an
>> object all
>> over and then set it down, you'd see the inherent problem. The problem
>> also
>> presents itself on ceramic ware. Often there is a unglazed lower rim
>> on
>> those, or three points where the object rested on "stilts" (can't
>> remember
>> the correct term) while being fired.
>>
>> So the exposed area might just be the undercoat that is exposed (as it
>> would
>> be on the rim in any case), and not bare metal. I'm not familiar with
>> Mario
>> Batali products. You should be able to tell whether it's bare metal at
>> the
>> rim (and base) by carefully looking.
>
>
> Thank you.
> Mario Batali is selling iron enameled pots made by Copco.
>
> Here is more the "dangerous" answer from rec.food.cooking, which is
> available for anyone to see under my OP "Just whining about a
> purchase"
> Response:
> "Over time and with use that chip will become larger (that area will
> also rust), and porcelain is glass (that's not enamel, it's
> porcelain), so where do you think the next glass sliver will end
> up...
> in sombody's intestines of course... chipped porcelainized cookware
> is
> very dangerous, get rid of it. Porcelainized cookware is very old
> fashioned, developed as a way to have nonreactive cookware before the
> advent of stainless steel. I'd not own any porcelainized cast
> iron, ...."
>
> I went back to the amazon site and it does say:
> "made of cast iron with porcelain-enamel interior and exterior"
>
> Now, I'm worried again; I'm digging a bigger hole for myself. :-(
>
> Thanks.
> Dee
>
If you are worried about tiny particles killing someone, better not eat
anything grown in the ground. might have tiny pieces of ground up rock.

You think a tiny particle is going to hurt you? I don't, unless it is
Polonium 210, of course.

The other poster was just pulling your chain.

del
>
>

Re: Batali 6-qt enameled pot



> "So, will they replace the pot (it's dangerous to use with that
> chip),..."

Dee Dee, this flippant remark of Sheldon's is in quotes and I understood
it as a dramatic utterance, not as a warning against chipped enamelware.

Enamelware will chip along the rim in the real world as it is used. My
pans that were made with enamel coating on the top of the rim have all
chipped in places, not a problem. My take is if there is a danger from
chipped enamelware, litigation would have eliminated enamelware
manufacture by now.

Enjoy your new pot.

Kit

--