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question on rise
question on rise
Hi
Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
concept.
€ 1 cup active sourdough starter
€ 1/2 cup raisins
€ 3/4 cup lukewarm/cool water
€ 3 cups bread flour
€ 1/8 teaspoon baking soda
€ 1 tablespoon sugar
€ 1/2 teaspoon salt
€ 1 teaspoon cinnamon
€ 1 tablespoon oil
€ 1 1/4 teaspoons yeast
Mix starter and raisins in mixer bowl, cover and set aside for a few
hours or overnight.
Combine ingredients in the mixer bowl, knead on speed 1 for 1 minute,
the on speed 2 for 4 minutes or until the dough looks right. Remove the
dough, oil the bowl, return the dough and allow it to rise for 1 hour.
Shape and place in a bread pan. Allow to rise for 40 minutes. Bake 35
minutes on 325 convection.
Hi
Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
concept.
€ 1 cup active sourdough starter
€ 1/2 cup raisins
€ 3/4 cup lukewarm/cool water
€ 3 cups bread flour
€ 1/8 teaspoon baking soda
€ 1 tablespoon sugar
€ 1/2 teaspoon salt
€ 1 teaspoon cinnamon
€ 1 tablespoon oil
€ 1 1/4 teaspoons yeast
Mix starter and raisins in mixer bowl, cover and set aside for a few
hours or overnight.
Combine ingredients in the mixer bowl, knead on speed 1 for 1 minute,
the on speed 2 for 4 minutes or until the dough looks right. Remove the
dough, oil the bowl, return the dough and allow it to rise for 1 hour.
Shape and place in a bread pan. Allow to rise for 40 minutes. Bake 35
minutes on 325 convection.
Re: question on rise
chimera wrote:
> Hi
> Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
> yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
> ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
> and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
> concept.
I already answered your question. You might look at the google archives
for that reply.
Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
flour and yeast work overnight.
The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough! It won't have a
chance of becoming sourdough until it is refreshed and fed long enough
for the bakers yeast to die off. And that will take a lot longer than
overnight.
In short, the recipe you posted has nothing to do with sourdough, other
than a misuse of the name.
Mike
--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith
Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Our fortune
Is your
Shaven face
It's our best
Advertising space
Burma-Shave
chimera wrote:
> Hi
> Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
> yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
> ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
> and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
> concept.
I already answered your question. You might look at the google archives
for that reply.
Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
flour and yeast work overnight.
The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough! It won't have a
chance of becoming sourdough until it is refreshed and fed long enough
for the bakers yeast to die off. And that will take a lot longer than
overnight.
In short, the recipe you posted has nothing to do with sourdough, other
than a misuse of the name.
Mike
--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith
Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Our fortune
Is your
Shaven face
It's our best
Advertising space
Burma-Shave
Re: question on rise
Mike Avery wrote:
> Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
> from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
> a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
> flour and yeast work overnight.
>
> The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough!
No, it's a sponge. Which is a perfectly acceptable technique, but as
you point out it isn't sourdough.
I run into this *a lot,* and especially it seems lately. Someone sets
out a batter of commercial yeast, water, and flour overnight and calls
it "starter."
B/
Mike Avery wrote:
> Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
> from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
> a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
> flour and yeast work overnight.
>
> The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough!
No, it's a sponge. Which is a perfectly acceptable technique, but as
you point out it isn't sourdough.
I run into this *a lot,* and especially it seems lately. Someone sets
out a batter of commercial yeast, water, and flour overnight and calls
it "starter."
B/
Re: question on rise
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:52:56 -0700, Brian Mailman wrote:
> Mike Avery wrote:
>
>> Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
>> from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
>> a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
>> flour and yeast work overnight.
>>
>> The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough!
>
> No, it's a sponge. Which is a perfectly acceptable technique, but as
> you point out it isn't sourdough.
>
> I run into this *a lot,* and especially it seems lately. Someone sets
> out a batter of commercial yeast, water, and flour overnight and calls
> it "starter."
I was recently looking through the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book and saw a
recipe for something they called "Manuel's Starter" that they used as the
basis for several "sourdough" recipes. It looked like other starter
instructions I've seen but included a tiny amount of milk (half a teaspoon,
iirc) and one grain of baker's yeast. Would you call this real sourdough
and what would be the purpose of such small amounts?
--
Jayne
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:52:56 -0700, Brian Mailman wrote:
> Mike Avery wrote:
>
>> Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
>> from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
>> a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
>> flour and yeast work overnight.
>>
>> The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough!
>
> No, it's a sponge. Which is a perfectly acceptable technique, but as
> you point out it isn't sourdough.
>
> I run into this *a lot,* and especially it seems lately. Someone sets
> out a batter of commercial yeast, water, and flour overnight and calls
> it "starter."
I was recently looking through the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book and saw a
recipe for something they called "Manuel's Starter" that they used as the
basis for several "sourdough" recipes. It looked like other starter
instructions I've seen but included a tiny amount of milk (half a teaspoon,
iirc) and one grain of baker's yeast. Would you call this real sourdough
and what would be the purpose of such small amounts?
--
Jayne
Re: question on rise
Jayne Kulikauskas wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:52:56 -0700, Brian Mailman wrote:
>
>> Mike Avery wrote:
>>
>>> Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
>>> from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
>>> a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
>>> flour and yeast work overnight.
>>>
>>> The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough!
>>
>> No, it's a sponge. Which is a perfectly acceptable technique, but as
>> you point out it isn't sourdough.
>>
>> I run into this *a lot,* and especially it seems lately. Someone sets
>> out a batter of commercial yeast, water, and flour overnight and calls
>> it "starter."
>
> I was recently looking through the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book and saw a
> recipe for something they called "Manuel's Starter" that they used as the
> basis for several "sourdough" recipes. It looked like other starter
> instructions I've seen but included a tiny amount of milk (half a teaspoon,
> iirc) and one grain of baker's yeast. Would you call this real sourdough
> and what would be the purpose of such small amounts?
Sourdough is the process of using retained matter from one batch of
dough to start the next.
Simply put, a sourdough starter is generally a symbiote of wild yeast
AND lactobacilli (lb)--the lactobacilli depend on the yeast to provide
their food and in return the lb's excreta forms an acid barrier that
protects the yeast from "invasion" by acid-non-tolerant yeasts.
So no, I would not call that a real sourdough starter. Used often
enough in a sourdough process without added commercial yeast it will
turn into one as the lbs colonize the batter, produce acid, and then the
acid-tolerant wild yeasts take over.
Just saying "mix flour, preferably whole-grain, and water, and set aside
at a moderately warm temperature until it ferments" doesn't sell books.
B/
Jayne Kulikauskas wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:52:56 -0700, Brian Mailman wrote:
>
>> Mike Avery wrote:
>>
>>> Also, if you look for the recipe you posted on line, you see that it was
>>> from a recipe by Kimberly Andrew, and that her favorite way of starting
>>> a sourdough starter is with a packet of yeast and letting the water,
>>> flour and yeast work overnight.
>>>
>>> The only problem with this is that it isn't sourdough!
>>
>> No, it's a sponge. Which is a perfectly acceptable technique, but as
>> you point out it isn't sourdough.
>>
>> I run into this *a lot,* and especially it seems lately. Someone sets
>> out a batter of commercial yeast, water, and flour overnight and calls
>> it "starter."
>
> I was recently looking through the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book and saw a
> recipe for something they called "Manuel's Starter" that they used as the
> basis for several "sourdough" recipes. It looked like other starter
> instructions I've seen but included a tiny amount of milk (half a teaspoon,
> iirc) and one grain of baker's yeast. Would you call this real sourdough
> and what would be the purpose of such small amounts?
Sourdough is the process of using retained matter from one batch of
dough to start the next.
Simply put, a sourdough starter is generally a symbiote of wild yeast
AND lactobacilli (lb)--the lactobacilli depend on the yeast to provide
their food and in return the lb's excreta forms an acid barrier that
protects the yeast from "invasion" by acid-non-tolerant yeasts.
So no, I would not call that a real sourdough starter. Used often
enough in a sourdough process without added commercial yeast it will
turn into one as the lbs colonize the batter, produce acid, and then the
acid-tolerant wild yeasts take over.
Just saying "mix flour, preferably whole-grain, and water, and set aside
at a moderately warm temperature until it ferments" doesn't sell books.
B/
Re: question on rise
On Mar 11, 11:18 am, chimera <tee...@mac . com > wrote:
> Hi
> Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
> yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
> ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
> and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
> concept.
Wow. I received a nice note from Mike about this and thought I'd check
into this discussion. Interesting that Gary Bishop found my bread
recipe and adapted it -- plus he was kind enough to share credit. :)
As I told Mike, I'm aware there are 2 schools in regards to sourdough:
those who don't use yeast in their starter (or sponge if you prefer),
and us yeast users. It's rather like discussing PC vs Mac, or Toyota
vs Ford, or any one of a number of issues with 2 or more sides to the
coin. Everyone is right, no one is really wrong -- and in the end if
the bread is edible, then it's good. At least that's my humble
opinion. Your opinion may vary. ;-D
My late mother-in-law taught me how to make starter back in 1974. If
my memory serves, she did say that the yeast was the "quick" method
and the non-yeast was the "better" method. She used the yeast method
and so I've always used the yeast method. I'll probably continue to do
so. I'm afraid after all these years it's a habit I'm not interested
in breaking. ;-) My bread turns out fine and we like the flavor, and
that's really the point of baking your own bread, isn't it?
Why did I add all the ingredients I did? I couldn't tell you about all
of them at this point. I guess my only answer is ... after many failed
attempts this one worked. I can tell you that putting raisins into the
dough and letting them sit is a trick I learned in a bread making
class many, many years ago. It produces a chemical reaction -- the
explanation of which I no longer remember. I'm not a scientist - just
a baker. :D
The cinnamon mixed into the dough? That's easy. I wanted a bread where
the cinnamon was blended into the whole loaf as opposed to the "swirl"
effect you get when you do it the way Mike does. I hate making
cinnamon raisin toast and having it fall apart at the swirls. Heh!
But lots of folks like the swirly effort. Do what pleases you.
There's a personal story behind this recipe, but I'll save that for
when I find time to update my website.
As I told Mike, I'm sorry if you are pained by my bread recipes. I
share them because they make great bread and I thought others might be
interested in trying them. I never claimed to be an expert at all
this. I just like to bake and cook and play in my kitchen -- and I'm
happy to share my experiments with the world. HAHAHA!
If you try the bread, I hope you enjoy it as much as we do.
On Mar 11, 11:18 am, chimera <tee...@mac . com > wrote:
> Hi
> Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
> yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
> ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
> and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
> concept.
Wow. I received a nice note from Mike about this and thought I'd check
into this discussion. Interesting that Gary Bishop found my bread
recipe and adapted it -- plus he was kind enough to share credit. :)
As I told Mike, I'm aware there are 2 schools in regards to sourdough:
those who don't use yeast in their starter (or sponge if you prefer),
and us yeast users. It's rather like discussing PC vs Mac, or Toyota
vs Ford, or any one of a number of issues with 2 or more sides to the
coin. Everyone is right, no one is really wrong -- and in the end if
the bread is edible, then it's good. At least that's my humble
opinion. Your opinion may vary. ;-D
My late mother-in-law taught me how to make starter back in 1974. If
my memory serves, she did say that the yeast was the "quick" method
and the non-yeast was the "better" method. She used the yeast method
and so I've always used the yeast method. I'll probably continue to do
so. I'm afraid after all these years it's a habit I'm not interested
in breaking. ;-) My bread turns out fine and we like the flavor, and
that's really the point of baking your own bread, isn't it?
Why did I add all the ingredients I did? I couldn't tell you about all
of them at this point. I guess my only answer is ... after many failed
attempts this one worked. I can tell you that putting raisins into the
dough and letting them sit is a trick I learned in a bread making
class many, many years ago. It produces a chemical reaction -- the
explanation of which I no longer remember. I'm not a scientist - just
a baker. :D
The cinnamon mixed into the dough? That's easy. I wanted a bread where
the cinnamon was blended into the whole loaf as opposed to the "swirl"
effect you get when you do it the way Mike does. I hate making
cinnamon raisin toast and having it fall apart at the swirls. Heh!
But lots of folks like the swirly effort. Do what pleases you.
There's a personal story behind this recipe, but I'll save that for
when I find time to update my website.
As I told Mike, I'm sorry if you are pained by my bread recipes. I
share them because they make great bread and I thought others might be
interested in trying them. I never claimed to be an expert at all
this. I just like to bake and cook and play in my kitchen -- and I'm
happy to share my experiments with the world. HAHAHA!
If you try the bread, I hope you enjoy it as much as we do.
Re: question on rise
<mrsmac1974@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:1173664630.925174.249090@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups . com ...
> On Mar 11, 11:18 am, chimera <tee...@mac . com > wrote:
> > Hi
> > Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
> > yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
> > ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
> > and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
> > concept.
>
> Wow. I received a nice note from Mike about this and thought I'd check
> into this discussion. Interesting that Gary Bishop found my bread
> recipe and adapted it -- plus he was kind enough to share credit. :)
>
> As I told Mike, I'm aware there are 2 schools in regards to sourdough:
> those who don't use yeast in their starter (or sponge if you prefer),
> and us yeast users. It's rather like discussing PC vs Mac, or Toyota
> vs Ford, or any one of a number of issues with 2 or more sides to the
> coin.
no, i think it is more like the similarity between a car and a bike. both
are transportation, but that is where the similarity ends. commercial yeast
bread is one thing, sourdough bread is an entirely different thing. i think
dick mentioned one time you can get sourdough flavoring and add it to your
(commercially) yeasted recipes, maybe that is what you mean.
dan w
<mrsmac1974@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:1173664630.925174.249090@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups . com ...
> On Mar 11, 11:18 am, chimera <tee...@mac . com > wrote:
> > Hi
> > Just wondered if anyone out there knew why baking soda and more
> > yeast is added to this recipe for RAISIN BREAD. Why add more leavening
> > ingredients if starter is there? It's probably great bread, so will try
> > and find out i guess. Sorry if post sent 2X. New to this newsgroup
> > concept.
>
> Wow. I received a nice note from Mike about this and thought I'd check
> into this discussion. Interesting that Gary Bishop found my bread
> recipe and adapted it -- plus he was kind enough to share credit. :)
>
> As I told Mike, I'm aware there are 2 schools in regards to sourdough:
> those who don't use yeast in their starter (or sponge if you prefer),
> and us yeast users. It's rather like discussing PC vs Mac, or Toyota
> vs Ford, or any one of a number of issues with 2 or more sides to the
> coin.
no, i think it is more like the similarity between a car and a bike. both
are transportation, but that is where the similarity ends. commercial yeast
bread is one thing, sourdough bread is an entirely different thing. i think
dick mentioned one time you can get sourdough flavoring and add it to your
(commercially) yeasted recipes, maybe that is what you mean.
dan w
