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starter odor changed
starter odor changed
My whole wheat sourdough
starter, that I've had for 1
year, has a new odor...I feed
it every weekly with fresh
home stone ground wheat flour.
I ferment it at about 90º. Two
feedings ago, I noticed a
change in it's odor. I also
notice a change in the way it
bubbles up in the refrigerator
between feedings...which is;
before, sometimes there would
be a darker liquid that formed
on the top of the bubbly
starter. NOW, I notice there
is a clearer liquid that forms
at the bottom of the bubbly
starter and the odor is a bit
offensive to me...smells bad
to me but the bubbles indicate
that's it's feeding happily.
Last week when I made
sourdough pancakes the kitchen
had a new odor afterwards
also. What's up with this? Help!
Thanks in advance,
Nicki w/stinky sourdough starter
My whole wheat sourdough
starter, that I've had for 1
year, has a new odor...I feed
it every weekly with fresh
home stone ground wheat flour.
I ferment it at about 90º. Two
feedings ago, I noticed a
change in it's odor. I also
notice a change in the way it
bubbles up in the refrigerator
between feedings...which is;
before, sometimes there would
be a darker liquid that formed
on the top of the bubbly
starter. NOW, I notice there
is a clearer liquid that forms
at the bottom of the bubbly
starter and the odor is a bit
offensive to me...smells bad
to me but the bubbles indicate
that's it's feeding happily.
Last week when I made
sourdough pancakes the kitchen
had a new odor afterwards
also. What's up with this? Help!
Thanks in advance,
Nicki w/stinky sourdough starter
Re: starter odor changed
Fact: it has changed
Why does a starter change? Because it's instable under current
circumstances.
Why is it instable? Probably you have run it under some borderline
conditions and some other organisms got in.
From the info you give: 2 weeks, about 90 F, hooch afterwards, it's
hard to tell.
How long have you fermented it at 90 F?
What was the ratio of old starter flour to addition?
This information may give some clues if you are running it ok or are
maybe close to overfermenting/death cycle, where it may tilt with new
material.
From the change you notice that it's now swimming on top of the liquid
could mean that it's not completely done fermenting and there is still
gas in the mass which makes it float.
I'd say, you've got yourself a new starter which is still developing i.
e. having funny smells.
Maybe it settles after a few refreshments and becomes stabile again?
Is it getting sour at all? That would be an indication that it is still
- or again sourdough.
Maybe you want to feed it again, wait a little until it gets going well
and then put it in the fridge. With that, you would be on the beginning
of the fermentation cycle and not at the end. Not sure if you have not
done it in that manner, but anyhow.
Maybe I am totally off and somebody knows exactly that critters cause
the "floating on hooch" - but the above, that's my take on this.
Samartha
Nicki Sinclair wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough
> starter, that I've had for 1
> year, has a new odor...I feed
> it every weekly with fresh
> home stone ground wheat flour.
> I ferment it at about 90º. Two
> feedings ago, I noticed a
> change in it's odor. I also
> notice a change in the way it
> bubbles up in the refrigerator
> between feedings...which is;
> before, sometimes there would
> be a darker liquid that formed
> on the top of the bubbly
> starter. NOW, I notice there
> is a clearer liquid that forms
> at the bottom of the bubbly
> starter and the odor is a bit
> offensive to me...smells bad
> to me but the bubbles indicate
> that's it's feeding happily.
> Last week when I made
> sourdough pancakes the kitchen
> had a new odor afterwards
> also. What's up with this? Help!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nicki w/stinky sourdough starter
>
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
> Rec.food.sourdough@w w w .mountainbitwarrior . com
> * w w w .mountainbitwarrior . com /mailman/listinfo/rec.food.sourdough
>
Fact: it has changed
Why does a starter change? Because it's instable under current
circumstances.
Why is it instable? Probably you have run it under some borderline
conditions and some other organisms got in.
From the info you give: 2 weeks, about 90 F, hooch afterwards, it's
hard to tell.
How long have you fermented it at 90 F?
What was the ratio of old starter flour to addition?
This information may give some clues if you are running it ok or are
maybe close to overfermenting/death cycle, where it may tilt with new
material.
From the change you notice that it's now swimming on top of the liquid
could mean that it's not completely done fermenting and there is still
gas in the mass which makes it float.
I'd say, you've got yourself a new starter which is still developing i.
e. having funny smells.
Maybe it settles after a few refreshments and becomes stabile again?
Is it getting sour at all? That would be an indication that it is still
- or again sourdough.
Maybe you want to feed it again, wait a little until it gets going well
and then put it in the fridge. With that, you would be on the beginning
of the fermentation cycle and not at the end. Not sure if you have not
done it in that manner, but anyhow.
Maybe I am totally off and somebody knows exactly that critters cause
the "floating on hooch" - but the above, that's my take on this.
Samartha
Nicki Sinclair wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough
> starter, that I've had for 1
> year, has a new odor...I feed
> it every weekly with fresh
> home stone ground wheat flour.
> I ferment it at about 90º. Two
> feedings ago, I noticed a
> change in it's odor. I also
> notice a change in the way it
> bubbles up in the refrigerator
> between feedings...which is;
> before, sometimes there would
> be a darker liquid that formed
> on the top of the bubbly
> starter. NOW, I notice there
> is a clearer liquid that forms
> at the bottom of the bubbly
> starter and the odor is a bit
> offensive to me...smells bad
> to me but the bubbles indicate
> that's it's feeding happily.
> Last week when I made
> sourdough pancakes the kitchen
> had a new odor afterwards
> also. What's up with this? Help!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nicki w/stinky sourdough starter
>
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
> Rec.food.sourdough@w w w .mountainbitwarrior . com
> * w w w .mountainbitwarrior . com /mailman/listinfo/rec.food.sourdough
>
Re: starter odor changed
*line length reformated*
Nicki Sinclair wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough starter, that I've had for 1 year, has a new
> odor...I feed it every weekly with fresh home stone ground wheat
> flour. I ferment it at about 90º. Two feedings ago, I noticed a
> change in it's odor. I also notice a change in the way it bubbles up
> in the refrigerator between feedings...which is; before, sometimes
> there would be a darker liquid that formed on the top of the bubbly
> starter. NOW, I notice there is a clearer liquid that forms at the
> bottom of the bubbly starter and the odor is a bit offensive to
> me...smells bad to me but the bubbles indicate that's it's feeding
> happily. Last week when I made sourdough pancakes the kitchen had a
> new odor afterwards also. What's up with this? Help!
You might want to "wash" your starter.
That is, take about a 1/2 teaspoon. of your old starter, and put it in a =
1/4 cup of flour. Add water to pancake batter consistency... In
essence, just like you were feeding your starter, but with a very small
quantity of your starter.
See what develops then.
B/
*line length reformated*
Nicki Sinclair wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough starter, that I've had for 1 year, has a new
> odor...I feed it every weekly with fresh home stone ground wheat
> flour. I ferment it at about 90º. Two feedings ago, I noticed a
> change in it's odor. I also notice a change in the way it bubbles up
> in the refrigerator between feedings...which is; before, sometimes
> there would be a darker liquid that formed on the top of the bubbly
> starter. NOW, I notice there is a clearer liquid that forms at the
> bottom of the bubbly starter and the odor is a bit offensive to
> me...smells bad to me but the bubbles indicate that's it's feeding
> happily. Last week when I made sourdough pancakes the kitchen had a
> new odor afterwards also. What's up with this? Help!
You might want to "wash" your starter.
That is, take about a 1/2 teaspoon. of your old starter, and put it in a =
1/4 cup of flour. Add water to pancake batter consistency... In
essence, just like you were feeding your starter, but with a very small
quantity of your starter.
See what develops then.
B/
Re: starter odor changed
Brian Mailman wrote:
> You might want to "wash" your starter.
As I understand it, "washing" applies to a non-performing, lame starter.
Main underlying reason by my understanding for this is oversouring,
where the stored starter is so sour that a regular feeding is
insufficient to raise the pH enough and the critters can perform again.
A relatively large amount of flour is added to a small amount of "lame"
starter.
This lowers the pH and it will become alive again.
Nicki stated in her post:
> but the bubbles indicate that's it's feeding
> happily
This is not a "lame" starter.
If the situation with her is that her original starter indeed has died
off and a new starter started to develop (facts in favor of this: full
grain flour and "new", odd smell and taste).
Unless her starter is already sour, I would say that "washing" could be
counterproductive in her situation.
Samartha
Brian Mailman wrote:
> You might want to "wash" your starter.
As I understand it, "washing" applies to a non-performing, lame starter.
Main underlying reason by my understanding for this is oversouring,
where the stored starter is so sour that a regular feeding is
insufficient to raise the pH enough and the critters can perform again.
A relatively large amount of flour is added to a small amount of "lame"
starter.
This lowers the pH and it will become alive again.
Nicki stated in her post:
> but the bubbles indicate that's it's feeding
> happily
This is not a "lame" starter.
If the situation with her is that her original starter indeed has died
off and a new starter started to develop (facts in favor of this: full
grain flour and "new", odd smell and taste).
Unless her starter is already sour, I would say that "washing" could be
counterproductive in her situation.
Samartha
Re: starter odor changed
On 19 Mar, 04:07, Samartha Deva <sdnews-inbox-EEE-
nosp...@samartha . net > wrote:
> As I understand it, "washing" applies to a non-performing, lame starter.
..
> Unless her starter is already sour, I would say that "washing" could be
> counterproductive in her situation.
>
> Samartha
Hi Samartha,
I have to agree with Brian,
when the liquid forms lower than the bubbling foam it's a sure sign of
the thing that shall not speak it's name. If bad feeding has lead to
such a low number of yeasts and lb's that the next feed means they are
over run by the other stuff from the flour then this lower liquid can
occur with that characteristic foaming which is very different from
regular starter bubbling. (Nicki also said that bubbling was
different.)
The only thing I would caution is not to give too much flour to an
ailing starter. What Brian has suggested could be the best solution
but on the other hand a little less feed may be better. Only time and
experiment will tell. I would stress also that when doing a wash you
tend to use much more water than flour, I assume this is to help
aerate the starter, helping the yeast multiply to establish dominance
again. Either way a wash won't hurt.
Knowing all about pH is irrelevent if you don't have some way to
measure it. Most of us don't and cope admirably well without. , -)
Jim
On 19 Mar, 04:07, Samartha Deva <sdnews-inbox-EEE-
nosp...@samartha . net > wrote:
> As I understand it, "washing" applies to a non-performing, lame starter.
..
> Unless her starter is already sour, I would say that "washing" could be
> counterproductive in her situation.
>
> Samartha
Hi Samartha,
I have to agree with Brian,
when the liquid forms lower than the bubbling foam it's a sure sign of
the thing that shall not speak it's name. If bad feeding has lead to
such a low number of yeasts and lb's that the next feed means they are
over run by the other stuff from the flour then this lower liquid can
occur with that characteristic foaming which is very different from
regular starter bubbling. (Nicki also said that bubbling was
different.)
The only thing I would caution is not to give too much flour to an
ailing starter. What Brian has suggested could be the best solution
but on the other hand a little less feed may be better. Only time and
experiment will tell. I would stress also that when doing a wash you
tend to use much more water than flour, I assume this is to help
aerate the starter, helping the yeast multiply to establish dominance
again. Either way a wash won't hurt.
Knowing all about pH is irrelevent if you don't have some way to
measure it. Most of us don't and cope admirably well without. , -)
Jim
Re: starter odor changed
On Mar 18, 3:50 pm, Nicki Sinclair <nicsb...@sbcglobal . net > wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough
> starter, that I've had for 1
> year, has a new odor...I feed
> it every weekly with fresh
> home stone ground wheat flour.
> I ferment it at about 90º. Two
> feedings ago, I noticed a
> change in it's odor. I also
> notice a change in the way it
> bubbles up in the refrigerator
> between feedings...which is;
> before, sometimes there would
> be a darker liquid that formed
> on the top of the bubbly
> starter. NOW, I notice there
> is a clearer liquid that forms
> at the bottom of the bubbly
> starter and the odor is a bit
> offensive to me...smells bad
> to me but the bubbles indicate
> that's it's feeding happily.
> Last week when I made
> sourdough pancakes the kitchen
> had a new odor afterwards
> also. What's up with this? Help!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nicki w/stinky sourdough starter
Did you change wheat? New bag... perhaps.
Seems to me the easiest thing to do would be to make a new starter.
That way, if you do not regain confidence in your current starter,
you'll be ready with a replacement. Making new starter isn't a big
deal.
As to the current situation... 90 F. is on the high side for yeast. A
few cycles at 90 and things begin to drop out, the population equation
resets. Yogurts and buttermilks ferment well above 90 F... so I'm
guessing you have acquired or reinforced an LB strain. Does the
starter smell like cheezy? or vaguely foot-like? To shift back, what
Samartha and Brian suggested will work. But I'd keep the refreshment
temperature lower... 75-80 F is plenty sufficient.
On Mar 18, 3:50 pm, Nicki Sinclair <nicsb...@sbcglobal . net > wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough
> starter, that I've had for 1
> year, has a new odor...I feed
> it every weekly with fresh
> home stone ground wheat flour.
> I ferment it at about 90º. Two
> feedings ago, I noticed a
> change in it's odor. I also
> notice a change in the way it
> bubbles up in the refrigerator
> between feedings...which is;
> before, sometimes there would
> be a darker liquid that formed
> on the top of the bubbly
> starter. NOW, I notice there
> is a clearer liquid that forms
> at the bottom of the bubbly
> starter and the odor is a bit
> offensive to me...smells bad
> to me but the bubbles indicate
> that's it's feeding happily.
> Last week when I made
> sourdough pancakes the kitchen
> had a new odor afterwards
> also. What's up with this? Help!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nicki w/stinky sourdough starter
Did you change wheat? New bag... perhaps.
Seems to me the easiest thing to do would be to make a new starter.
That way, if you do not regain confidence in your current starter,
you'll be ready with a replacement. Making new starter isn't a big
deal.
As to the current situation... 90 F. is on the high side for yeast. A
few cycles at 90 and things begin to drop out, the population equation
resets. Yogurts and buttermilks ferment well above 90 F... so I'm
guessing you have acquired or reinforced an LB strain. Does the
starter smell like cheezy? or vaguely foot-like? To shift back, what
Samartha and Brian suggested will work. But I'd keep the refreshment
temperature lower... 75-80 F is plenty sufficient.
Re: starter odor changed
"Will" <waller.william@gmail . com > wrote in message =
news:1174311147.646232.226460@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
> [ ... ]
> I'd keep the refreshment temperature lower...
> 75-80 F is plenty sufficient.
Aha, sufficient plentiness!
Well, I guess we can still go on with this. There is always
one more thing to say about a stinky starter.
(Starters that behave themselves are just not all that
interesting. What can you do with those? -- just make
bread, I guess.)
--
Dicky
"Will" <waller.william@gmail . com > wrote in message =
news:1174311147.646232.226460@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups . com ...
> [ ... ]
> I'd keep the refreshment temperature lower...
> 75-80 F is plenty sufficient.
Aha, sufficient plentiness!
Well, I guess we can still go on with this. There is always
one more thing to say about a stinky starter.
(Starters that behave themselves are just not all that
interesting. What can you do with those? -- just make
bread, I guess.)
--
Dicky
Re: starter odor changed
On Mar 19, 9:05 am, "Dick Adams" <Bad.A...@nonexist . com > wrote:
> Aha, sufficient plentiness!
Okay... when I stop laughing I'll offer up a new phrase. "Sufficient
plentiness" triggers memories of those catchy slogans from "1984"
<g>.
Dicky... you're in remarkable form this morning.
On Mar 19, 9:05 am, "Dick Adams" <Bad.A...@nonexist . com > wrote:
> Aha, sufficient plentiness!
Okay... when I stop laughing I'll offer up a new phrase. "Sufficient
plentiness" triggers memories of those catchy slogans from "1984"
<g>.
Dicky... you're in remarkable form this morning.
Re: starter odor changed
Nicki Sinclair wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough starter, that I've had for 1 year, has a new
> odor...I feed it every weekly with fresh home stone ground wheat flour.
> I ferment it at about 90º.
The 90F is a problem. That is past the optimum range for wheat
sourdough culture. Also the "fresh ground whole wheat" is a problem.
You are introducing new creatures at a rate much higher than would be
found if you were using White, bleached AP flour from the grocery store
into a culture that is weakened by being kept at too high a temperature.
If you think you are at 90F it is very easy to be past 90F, absent a
good incubator. That is definitely not good for your sourdough culture.
Some people can make a case for the warmer temperatures for the final
rise of the dough, but I have not heard any good reason to keep a
culture for wheat bread over 80F to 85F. I expand my storage culture at
room temperature. For at least six months of the year room temperature
here is below 75F, sometimes considerably below -- works just fine.
"Washing" is one of those words that I just don't understand. It is one
of those feel good words - you know, like "quality" It has lost any
real meaning. It is supposed to generate a good feeling response, but
its actual meaning depends on who says it and when.
I can understand the theory behind starting a new batch of culture with
a small inoculation of the established culture, say a teaspoon to a 1/4
cup of water and flour. However the schemes that call for high
dilutions with water are beyond me.
I can't ask the cat on this one because Ticker, at an earlier time, laid
down the law to me. It was like - listen buster 'cause I am only going
to tell you this once and you had better get it. Something like that.
She said that when I was through mixing the starter , she was going to
lick the spoon. Her rules were first, put enough of the old starter in
the new batch so she could taste it. Second, put enough flour in so that
it sticks to the spoon some. She told that she was going to lick both
sides of the spoon and the starter better not be so thin that it all ran
off the side that was on the bottom.
I will put the washing question on the list of thing to ask Ticker about
if I ever find her in a good mood and talkative at the same time.
Lately, when not engaged in vigorous napping, I find her sitting on top
of the TV looking out the window practicing her squirrel calling. She is
pretty good at it. sometimes it sounds just like there is a tree rat in
the house. Hunting, for her, is like napping - too important an
activity to be disturbed by the household servants.
Regards,
Charles
Nicki Sinclair wrote:
> My whole wheat sourdough starter, that I've had for 1 year, has a new
> odor...I feed it every weekly with fresh home stone ground wheat flour.
> I ferment it at about 90º.
The 90F is a problem. That is past the optimum range for wheat
sourdough culture. Also the "fresh ground whole wheat" is a problem.
You are introducing new creatures at a rate much higher than would be
found if you were using White, bleached AP flour from the grocery store
into a culture that is weakened by being kept at too high a temperature.
If you think you are at 90F it is very easy to be past 90F, absent a
good incubator. That is definitely not good for your sourdough culture.
Some people can make a case for the warmer temperatures for the final
rise of the dough, but I have not heard any good reason to keep a
culture for wheat bread over 80F to 85F. I expand my storage culture at
room temperature. For at least six months of the year room temperature
here is below 75F, sometimes considerably below -- works just fine.
"Washing" is one of those words that I just don't understand. It is one
of those feel good words - you know, like "quality" It has lost any
real meaning. It is supposed to generate a good feeling response, but
its actual meaning depends on who says it and when.
I can understand the theory behind starting a new batch of culture with
a small inoculation of the established culture, say a teaspoon to a 1/4
cup of water and flour. However the schemes that call for high
dilutions with water are beyond me.
I can't ask the cat on this one because Ticker, at an earlier time, laid
down the law to me. It was like - listen buster 'cause I am only going
to tell you this once and you had better get it. Something like that.
She said that when I was through mixing the starter , she was going to
lick the spoon. Her rules were first, put enough of the old starter in
the new batch so she could taste it. Second, put enough flour in so that
it sticks to the spoon some. She told that she was going to lick both
sides of the spoon and the starter better not be so thin that it all ran
off the side that was on the bottom.
I will put the washing question on the list of thing to ask Ticker about
if I ever find her in a good mood and talkative at the same time.
Lately, when not engaged in vigorous napping, I find her sitting on top
of the TV looking out the window practicing her squirrel calling. She is
pretty good at it. sometimes it sounds just like there is a tree rat in
the house. Hunting, for her, is like napping - too important an
activity to be disturbed by the household servants.
Regards,
Charles
Re: starter odor changed
On Mar 21, 9:21 am, Charles Perry <chef...@nospam . com > wrote:
> Also the "fresh ground whole wheat" is a problem.
> You are introducing new creatures at a rate much higher than would be
> found if you were using White, bleached AP flour from the grocery store
> into a culture that is weakened by being kept at too high a temperature.
I think you and the cat need to quit sleeping so much <g>.
Somehow or another (I trust the cat will explain it in good time) the
ancients managed to feed and maintain their cultures without AP white
flour. I can say for sure that my cultures have not suffered for being
fed freshly ground wheat or rye for years...
This is what I think is going on....
1) The starter was refreshed too hot. This depleted the lower temp
critters.
2) Then it was stored too cold (refrigerator). This depleted the
higher temp critters.
3) Plus it was kept too wet. So it built up acid... (acetic on the
cold cycle and lactic on the hot)
Common sense indicates that a regime of too hot, too cold, too wet...
will eventually (not immediately) discourage one's critters.
This is starter, not one of NASA's space vehicles. It needs to live
like we do... in reasonable comfort. And not under an inch of water
either. It needs to breathe.
On Mar 21, 9:21 am, Charles Perry <chef...@nospam . com > wrote:
> Also the "fresh ground whole wheat" is a problem.
> You are introducing new creatures at a rate much higher than would be
> found if you were using White, bleached AP flour from the grocery store
> into a culture that is weakened by being kept at too high a temperature.
I think you and the cat need to quit sleeping so much <g>.
Somehow or another (I trust the cat will explain it in good time) the
ancients managed to feed and maintain their cultures without AP white
flour. I can say for sure that my cultures have not suffered for being
fed freshly ground wheat or rye for years...
This is what I think is going on....
1) The starter was refreshed too hot. This depleted the lower temp
critters.
2) Then it was stored too cold (refrigerator). This depleted the
higher temp critters.
3) Plus it was kept too wet. So it built up acid... (acetic on the
cold cycle and lactic on the hot)
Common sense indicates that a regime of too hot, too cold, too wet...
will eventually (not immediately) discourage one's critters.
This is starter, not one of NASA's space vehicles. It needs to live
like we do... in reasonable comfort. And not under an inch of water
either. It needs to breathe.
Re: starter odor changed
Will wrote:
> On Mar 21, 9:21 am, Charles Perry <chef...@nospam . com > wrote:
>
>> Also the "fresh ground whole wheat" is a problem.
>> You are introducing new creatures at a rate much higher than would be
>> found if you were using White, bleached AP flour from the grocery store
>> into a culture that is weakened by being kept at too high a temperature.
>
Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
> Somehow or another (I trust the cat will explain it in good time) the
> ancients managed to feed and maintain their cultures without AP white
> flour. I can say for sure that my cultures have not suffered for being
> fed freshly ground wheat or rye for years...
So? The point that I failed to make is that a seriously weakened
culture will have less exposure to unwelcome critters if fed with
bleached white AP. Otherwise feed it the flour that you use for baking.
If you have a particular culture that you wish to preserve, than it is
best to use white AP because at some point the culture will probably be
in a neglected state.
>
> This is what I think is going on....
> ......
Well, as I stated, I agree with the too hot. The rest I am not so sure
either way.
>
> This is starter, not one of NASA's space vehicles.
If I ever said otherwise , it was in jest or sarcasm.
Regards,
Charles
Will wrote:
> On Mar 21, 9:21 am, Charles Perry <chef...@nospam . com > wrote:
>
>> Also the "fresh ground whole wheat" is a problem.
>> You are introducing new creatures at a rate much higher than would be
>> found if you were using White, bleached AP flour from the grocery store
>> into a culture that is weakened by being kept at too high a temperature.
>
Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
> Somehow or another (I trust the cat will explain it in good time) the
> ancients managed to feed and maintain their cultures without AP white
> flour. I can say for sure that my cultures have not suffered for being
> fed freshly ground wheat or rye for years...
So? The point that I failed to make is that a seriously weakened
culture will have less exposure to unwelcome critters if fed with
bleached white AP. Otherwise feed it the flour that you use for baking.
If you have a particular culture that you wish to preserve, than it is
best to use white AP because at some point the culture will probably be
in a neglected state.
>
> This is what I think is going on....
> ......
Well, as I stated, I agree with the too hot. The rest I am not so sure
either way.
>
> This is starter, not one of NASA's space vehicles.
If I ever said otherwise , it was in jest or sarcasm.
Regards,
Charles
Re: starter odor changed
Charles Perry wrote:
> "Washing" is one of those words that I just don't understand.
It's the word that's been used in this group by several people to
describe the process of re-beginning a starter using a very small amount
of inoculum.
I picked it up as the term of art.
If there's a word that's either better-suited or more accurate or more
commonly used, please let me know and I'll use that one instead.
B/
Charles Perry wrote:
> "Washing" is one of those words that I just don't understand.
It's the word that's been used in this group by several people to
describe the process of re-beginning a starter using a very small amount
of inoculum.
I picked it up as the term of art.
If there's a word that's either better-suited or more accurate or more
commonly used, please let me know and I'll use that one instead.
B/
Re: starter odor changed
"Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message =
news:1302rtpqivl5re5@news.supernews . com ...
> > "Washing" is one of those words that I just don't understand.
> [ ... ]
> If there's a word that's either better-suited or more accurate or more =
> commonly used, please let me know and I'll use that one instead.
Some say "sweeting the pot". But that can mean other things. Probably
mostly means money under the table. Probably came historically from
something about sanitizing chamber pots. A lot of such stuff is better
left alone.
Better to use simple English to briefly describe the process, when the
occasion comes up.
Many pages of bake books are consumed with elaborating obsolete
and inappropriate terminology. Who cares, for instance, what a =
"poolish"
is, or how "levain" is related to "levener", or exactly what a bakers'
"proof" is? Bakers' "per cent" should be defined every time it is used
because, although it is a very useful term, it is very confusing to =
people
who actually know what "per cent" actually means.
--
Dicky
"Brian Mailman" <bmailman@sfo.invalid> wrote in message =
news:1302rtpqivl5re5@news.supernews . com ...
> > "Washing" is one of those words that I just don't understand.
> [ ... ]
> If there's a word that's either better-suited or more accurate or more =
> commonly used, please let me know and I'll use that one instead.
Some say "sweeting the pot". But that can mean other things. Probably
mostly means money under the table. Probably came historically from
something about sanitizing chamber pots. A lot of such stuff is better
left alone.
Better to use simple English to briefly describe the process, when the
occasion comes up.
Many pages of bake books are consumed with elaborating obsolete
and inappropriate terminology. Who cares, for instance, what a =
"poolish"
is, or how "levain" is related to "levener", or exactly what a bakers'
"proof" is? Bakers' "per cent" should be defined every time it is used
because, although it is a very useful term, it is very confusing to =
people
who actually know what "per cent" actually means.
--
Dicky
Re: starter odor changed
Brian Mailman wrote:
> ...If there's a word that's either better-suited or more accurate or more
> commonly used, please let me know and I'll use that one instead.
>
Well, OK, I exaggerated a bit, Quality has a lot more more confusion
associated with it than does "Washing". However there does seem to be
at least two major definitions and multiple implementations of each.
The first I heard of the term, it was from a retail seller of starters
and was given as a procedure to be used when things did not work
properly when attempting to revive the starter or when established
starter went bad. This process involved massive dilution of the stuff
with water hence "washing" I don't understand this at all. Of course
there are all kinds of variations on the original procedure and I am not
sure if I read the first original from the author or later iterations.
The second major group of "washing" procedures involve a small
inoculation of flour and water with the old and possibly sick starter.
This makes some sense because you are just providing a fresh medium, a
base for the sourdough creatures. However, there are many recipes for
this general procedure.
I don't think it is a term of art in the sense that those practiced in
the art of sourdough cookery would all understand a single specific
meaning when the word is used in the context of starter maintenance.
It may have evolved to that point, in which case I am ignorant of the
fact, but I think "washing" still needs some additional explanation
rather than expecting a common understanding.
Regards,
Charles
Brian Mailman wrote:
> ...If there's a word that's either better-suited or more accurate or more
> commonly used, please let me know and I'll use that one instead.
>
Well, OK, I exaggerated a bit, Quality has a lot more more confusion
associated with it than does "Washing". However there does seem to be
at least two major definitions and multiple implementations of each.
The first I heard of the term, it was from a retail seller of starters
and was given as a procedure to be used when things did not work
properly when attempting to revive the starter or when established
starter went bad. This process involved massive dilution of the stuff
with water hence "washing" I don't understand this at all. Of course
there are all kinds of variations on the original procedure and I am not
sure if I read the first original from the author or later iterations.
The second major group of "washing" procedures involve a small
inoculation of flour and water with the old and possibly sick starter.
This makes some sense because you are just providing a fresh medium, a
base for the sourdough creatures. However, there are many recipes for
this general procedure.
I don't think it is a term of art in the sense that those practiced in
the art of sourdough cookery would all understand a single specific
meaning when the word is used in the context of starter maintenance.
It may have evolved to that point, in which case I am ignorant of the
fact, but I think "washing" still needs some additional explanation
rather than expecting a common understanding.
Regards,
Charles
Re: starter odor changed
On 21 Mar, 23:25, Charles Perry <chef...@nospam . com > wrote:
..
> "Washing"...
> The first I heard of the term, it was from a retail seller of starters
> and was given as a procedure to be used when things did not work
> properly when attempting to revive the starter or when established
> starter went bad. This process involved massive dilution of the stuff
> with water hence "washing" I don't understand this at all. ...
>
> The second major group of "washing" procedures involve a small
> inoculation of flour and ...
> It may have evolved to that point, in which case I am ignorant of the
> fact, but I think "washing" still needs some additional explanation
> rather than expecting a common understanding.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles
Hi Charles, the only time I've seen the term is from Ed Wood. It
translates to, by volume.
1 part culture
4 parts flour
6 parts water
Though this is well disguised in his books.
I found that in some cases halving the feed made for a quicker
recovery. But I suppose this is because you can't tell the germ count
just by looking. So any arbitrary amount is theoretically just as
good. I suspect this is Ed's cautious approach.
I only ever had to use this when the starter hadn't been used in
months or for badly dried ones. Yours didn't need it of course. :
-)
Thanks
Jim
On 21 Mar, 23:25, Charles Perry <chef...@nospam . com > wrote:
..
> "Washing"...
> The first I heard of the term, it was from a retail seller of starters
> and was given as a procedure to be used when things did not work
> properly when attempting to revive the starter or when established
> starter went bad. This process involved massive dilution of the stuff
> with water hence "washing" I don't understand this at all. ...
>
> The second major group of "washing" procedures involve a small
> inoculation of flour and ...
> It may have evolved to that point, in which case I am ignorant of the
> fact, but I think "washing" still needs some additional explanation
> rather than expecting a common understanding.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles
Hi Charles, the only time I've seen the term is from Ed Wood. It
translates to, by volume.
1 part culture
4 parts flour
6 parts water
Though this is well disguised in his books.
I found that in some cases halving the feed made for a quicker
recovery. But I suppose this is because you can't tell the germ count
just by looking. So any arbitrary amount is theoretically just as
good. I suspect this is Ed's cautious approach.
I only ever had to use this when the starter hadn't been used in
months or for badly dried ones. Yours didn't need it of course. :
-)
Thanks
Jim
