Interesting new High-end Digital System

Interesting new High-end Digital System

Saw this on Money:

< http :// money.cnn,com /2007/11/02/smbusiness/audio.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2007110213>

Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs.

--
David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

"Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."

There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
future.

Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

In article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >,
wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>
> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
> future.
>
> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.

True, but this starts at terabyte increments.

--
David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

davidbath1@bigfoot,com (David E. Bath) writes:

> In article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >,
> wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>>
>> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
>> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
>> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
>> future.
>>
>> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.
>
> True, but this starts at terabyte increments.

This is a temporary novelty item, in my estimation.

They are already working on high-speed wireless standards, e.g., for
transferring raw HD video wirelessly. When they become mature, you'll
just use a plain old PC in the office with boring hard drives and a
wireless card speaking to a wireless D/A in the living room / home
theater.
--
% Randy Yates % "Remember the good old 1980's, when
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % things were so uncomplicated?"
%%% 919-577-9882 % 'Ticket To The Moon'
%%%% <yates@ieee.org> % *Time*, Electric Light Orchestra
http :// www .digitalsignallabs,com

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, davidbath1@bigfoot,com (David E. Bath)
wrote:

>In article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >,
> wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>>
>> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
>> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
>> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
>> future.
>>
>> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.
>
>True, but this starts at terabyte increments.

Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory?
I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored,
ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure."

Sure seems like it is on disk.

Kal

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On 11/5/07 10:27 PM, in article fgoqf5027ch@news4.newsguy,com , "Kalman
Rubinson" <kr4@nyu.edu> wrote:

> On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, davidbath1@bigfoot,com (David E. Bath)
> wrote:
>
>> In article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >,
>> wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>>>
>>> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
>>> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
>>> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
>>> future.
>>>
>>> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.
>>
>> True, but this starts at terabyte increments.
>
> Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory?
> I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored,
> ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure."
>
> Sure seems like it is on disk.
>
If you dig a little into their web site, you'll find mention of storage
options in the terabyte range along with several statements about disk
backup. Terabytes of flash storage seem very unlikely. I believe their
statement about no moving parts applies specifically to the controller
hardware and software, not the music file storage.

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

In article <fgqve802r1l@news1.newsguy,com >,
John Stone <jmsent2@comcast,net > writes:
> On 11/5/07 10:27 PM, in article fgoqf5027ch@news4.newsguy,com , "Kalman
> Rubinson" <kr4@nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>> On 4 Nov 2007 18:14:34 GMT, davidbath1@bigfoot,com (David E. Bath)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >,
>>> wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>>> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>>>>
>>>> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
>>>> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
>>>> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
>>>> future.
>>>>
>>>> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.
>>>
>>> True, but this starts at terabyte increments.
>>
>> Seems? Can we see where it says that the files are in memory?
>> I see this statement at the website: "All audio storage is mirrored,
>> ensuring zero downtime in the event of disk failure."
>>
>> Sure seems like it is on disk.
>>
> If you dig a little into their web site, you'll find mention of storage
> options in the terabyte range along with several statements about disk
> backup. Terabytes of flash storage seem very unlikely. I believe their
> statement about no moving parts applies specifically to the controller
> hardware and software, not the music file storage.

Yes, I see that on their website, although their "All components are
fanless and use virtually no moving parts, for near-silent operation"
statement is a little misleading.

I see on Stereophile's review that it's made clear the discless
statement was supposed to be limited to the "Source" component, not
the system as a whole.
< http :// blog.stereophile,com /ces2007/107sooloos/>

--
David Bath - RAHE Co-moderator

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On 7 Nov 2007 00:17:25 GMT, davidbath1@bigfoot,com (David E. Bath)
wrote:

>I see on Stereophile's review that it's made clear the discless
>statement was supposed to be limited to the "Source" component, not
>the system as a whole.
>< http :// blog.stereophile,com /ces2007/107sooloos/>

A fine but significant point: That is not a review. It is a blog
based on a casual CES interview.

Kal

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On 7 Nov 2007 00:04:24 GMT, John Stone <jmsent2@comcast,net > wrote:

>If you dig a little into their web site, you'll find mention of storage
>options in the terabyte range along with several statements about disk
>backup. Terabytes of flash storage seem very unlikely. I believe their
>statement about no moving parts applies specifically to the controller
>hardware and software, not the music file storage.

Agreed. They also say no fan, so the noise must be from the disk
spinning. :-)

Kal

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu wrote
(in article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >):

> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>
> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
> future.
>
> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.

There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says
are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD
players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough
and reliable enough to be archival.

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

Sonnova wrote:
>
>
> There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says
> are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD
> players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough
> and reliable enough to be archival.

And, of course, they have been saying that for the last 20 years...Or
maybe 30 years. Bubble memory, anyone?

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:23:46 -0800, Chung wrote
(in article <fgm2c201o09@news3.newsguy,com >):

> Sonnova wrote:
>>
>>
>> There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and
>> says
>> are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD
>> players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough
>> and reliable enough to be archival.
>
> And, of course, they have been saying that for the last 20 years...Or
> maybe 30 years. Bubble memory, anyone?

Just because it hasn't happened yet is no indication that its not going to
happen. It's inevitable and a logical extension of current trends. That the
technology is maturing a bit more slowly than some might have predicted does
not change that.

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

Sonnova wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:23:46 -0800, Chung wrote
> (in article <fgm2c201o09@news3.newsguy,com >):
>
>> Sonnova wrote:
>>>
>>> There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and
>>> says
>>> are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD
>>> players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough
>>> and reliable enough to be archival.
>> And, of course, they have been saying that for the last 20 years...Or
>> maybe 30 years. Bubble memory, anyone?
>
> Just because it hasn't happened yet is no indication that its not going to
> happen. It's inevitable and a logical extension of current trends. That the
> technology is maturing a bit more slowly than some might have predicted does
> not change that.

They have been saying that for the last 20 years, too :)

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

Sonnova wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu wrote
> (in article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >):
>
>
>>"Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>>
>>There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
>>conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
>>dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
>>future.
>>
>>Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.
>
>
> There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and says
> are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD
> players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough
> and reliable enough to be archival.
Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not
all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero
access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect
example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to
transfer digital audio.

I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I
don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be
cheaper and offer much more capacity. Technology will adapt. The new
range of Ipods boast gapless playing. That's for both the flash and hard
drive based players. That feature alone makes them a worthwhile upgrade.

CD

Re: Interesting new High-end Digital System

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 19:24:32 -0800, Codifus wrote
(in article <fgm2dg01o1e@news3.newsguy,com >):

> Sonnova wrote:
>> On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 07:39:29 -0800, wrct@club.cc.cmu.edu wrote
>> (in article <fgkp3h04du@news3.newsguy,com >):
>>
>>
>>> "Seems it stores the music files in memory, not hard discs."
>>>
>>> There are just now starting to appear drop in flash memory "disks" for
>>> conventional hard drives. Very expensive but as always the price is
>>> dropping and can be projected to be the storage device of the near
>>> future.
>>>
>>> Ipod type plug in devices are a form of this even now.
>>
>>
>> There is no doubt that solid-state storage is the wave of the future and
>> says
>> are numbered for all mechanical storage media, hard-drives, CD players, DVD
>> players, you name it. It's just a matter of the memory getting cheap enough
>> and reliable enough to be archival.
> Mechanical storage media will always be around because it's cheaper. Not
> all computational scenarios require dead silent access with near zero
> access times. The portable hard drives in MP3 players are a perfect
> example. They are pretty much silent with acess times good enough to
> transfer digital audio.

That's a bit of a flaw in your logic. You are saying that mechanical storage
media will always be with us in the FUTURE because it's cheaper TODAY. That's
like a 19th century pundit saying that gas light would always be the
artificial light of the masses because at that time, the gas service was
already in place and was cheaper than electricity.

> I own an iPod nano, a flash based mp3 player, and as great as it is, I
> don't see hard drive based players going away because they'll always be
> cheaper and offer much more capacity.

How do you know that?

> Technology will adapt. The new
> range of Ipods boast gapless playing. That's for both the flash and hard
> drive based players. That feature alone makes them a worthwhile upgrade.

Granted that at this moment the cost/megabyte favors HDD, but I don't see how
you can possibly assume that this will always be the case. There are sound
reasons for eliminating moving parts in storage media. First is cost. A
socket is always going to be cheaper than a motorized mechanism. Second is
reliability - especially in portable devices, but also in stationary devices.
Drop your HDD-based iPod on the concrete and there's a good possibility that
the HDD will be damaged. Everyone knows that even on desktop computer that
are never moved, that hard-disk drives have a finite life, that's why we are
encouraged to back them up. Also solid-state memories use less power, are
smaller and lighter. Everything points to solid-state memory devices being
preferred over HDD. Its simply a matter of time.

>
> CD