surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
or an HDMI connection

for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables

agreed or disagreed?

bill

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

"willbill" <trek@worldwide,net > wrote in message
news:fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com ...
> surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
>
> for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
> sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
> inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
> sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

I'd suggest that if you're making this kind of comparison
you might be unaware that the settings for channel
levels or bass management might not be the same
in the two configurations and therefore create a sound difference.

ScottW

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

ScottW wrote:

> "willbill" <trek@worldwide,net > wrote in message
> news:fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com ...

>>surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
>>
>>for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
>>sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
>>inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
>>sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

> I'd suggest that if you're making this kind of comparison
> you might be unaware that the settings for channel
> levels or bass management might not be the same
> in the two configurations and therefore create a sound difference.
>
> ScottW

yes, i'm well aware of the issues of SPL levels
when making listening comparisons; and yes the
AVR's bass management (level adjustment) is also
different when the sound comes in via toslink
vs. via the 6 RCA connectors

bill

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill <trek@worldwide,net > wrote:
> ScottW wrote:

> > "willbill" <trek@worldwide,net > wrote in message
> > news:fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com ...

> >>surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
> >>
> >>for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
> >>sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
> >>inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
> >>sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

> > I'd suggest that if you're making this kind of comparison
> > you might be unaware that the settings for channel
> > levels or bass management might not be the same
> > in the two configurations and therefore create a sound difference.
> >
> > ScottW

> yes, i'm well aware of the issues of SPL levels
> when making listening comparisons; and yes the
> AVR's bass management (level adjustment) is also
> different when the sound comes in via toslink
> vs. via the 6 RCA connectors

Do you have bass management and delays and speaker level settings
on in you player *and* your receiver?

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Steven Sullivan wrote:

> Do you have bass management and delays
> and speaker level settings on in you player
> *and* your receiver?

i think you're missing the point

the question was/is: if digital audio
via toslink and/or HDMI cables is equal
to that via 6 RCA cables

my ears tell me that it is not, and
my hunch is that this is really true
that it is not

fwiw, i've pulled down some of the specs
on HDMI from www .wiki.org (.wikipedia.?)
and maybe this will get me to do a detailed
look through them. not sure if i've got
anything from wiki on toslink specs

bill

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:00:29 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article <fhddqt02t31@news2.newsguy,com >):

> Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
>> Do you have bass management and delays
>> and speaker level settings on in you player
>> *and* your receiver?
>
> i think you're missing the point
>
> the question was/is: if digital audio
> via toslink and/or HDMI cables is equal
> to that via 6 RCA cables
>
> my ears tell me that it is not, and
> my hunch is that this is really true
> that it is not
>
> fwiw, i've pulled down some of the specs
> on HDMI from www .wiki.org (.wikipedia.?)
> and maybe this will get me to do a detailed
> look through them. not sure if i've got
> anything from wiki on toslink specs
>
> bill
>

It doesn't matter. What you are "wondering" is if the method of transferring
a digital bit-stream, whether optically or via coaxial (HDMI) a few inches
(from the laser pickup in the player to the on-board surround-sound
processor) or several feet from the player to the surround decoder in your
Denon AVR can make a difference in sound quality. If the length of the signal
path had any effect on the bit-stream, what does that say about downloading
music from the internet where the path may be thousands of miles over fiber
optics and coax (and maybe even twisted pair)? The answer is, of course, NO.
If all the bits get to the decoder it doesn't matter how long the transfer
path is. Bits is bits. Whether the decoder is in the player and you are
routing the six channels of audio to your receiver, or if you are taking the
digital output from the player to the digital input of your receiver, the
digital signal is, ostensibly, the same in either case. The only difference
can be what the two surround decoders do to the decoded audio once it has
been processed.

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill <trek@worldwide,net > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:

> > Do you have bass management and delays
> > and speaker level settings on in you player
> > *and* your receiver?

> i think you're missing the point

> the question was/is: if digital audio
> via toslink and/or HDMI cables is equal
> to that via 6 RCA cables

And the answer is, much depends on the settings
being applied to each. And the relative performance
of the DAC and post-DAC stages involved.

> my ears tell me that it is not, and
> my hunch is that this is really true
> that it is not

Your reasoning about causes and effects is flawed.

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article <fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com >):

> surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
>
> for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
> sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
> inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
> sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?
>
> i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
> or an HDMI connection
>
> for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
> of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
> and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables
>
> agreed or disagreed?
>
> bill

Sounds to me like what you are saying is that you like the surround-sound
decoder chip in your DVD player better than you like the one in your AVR
because that's the only difference. TOSLINK and HDMI carry the un-decoded 5.1
DIGITAL bit stream from the player to the Dolby/DTS decoder in your receiver,
where it's processed into analog, while the 6 RCAs carry the already decoded
ANALOG signal from your DVD player (many of which have surround-sound
decoders already built-in). So the choice is yours decode the sound in the
player or decode the sound in the receiver.

Here's the rub: just because the surround-sound decoder in your DVD player
seems to be better than the one in your receiver, doesn't necessarily mean
that the decoder that comes in a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player will continue that
tradition and there is no way (except by auditioning at home before buying)
to tell beforehand. In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system. It's the
decoder you are using. With the 6 individual RCAs you are decoding the
surround-sound in the DVD player itself, and with TOSLINK or HDMI, you are
using your AVR to do the decoding. It is possible for one decoder chip to be
better sounding than another and that's doubtless what you are experiencing.

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
> (in article <fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com >):

>>surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
>>
>>for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
>>sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
>>inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
>>sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?
>>
>>i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
>>or an HDMI connection
>>
>>for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
>>of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
>>and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables
>>
>>agreed or disagreed?

> Sounds to me like what you are saying is that
> you like the surround-sound decoder chip in
> your DVD player better than you like the one
> in your AVR because that's the only difference.

my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD

my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA

> TOSLINK and HDMI carry the un-decoded 5.1
> DIGITAL bit stream from the player to the
> Dolby/DTS decoder in your receiver,
> where it's processed into analog,

yes, i'm aware of that

> while the 6 RCAs carry the already decoded
> ANALOG signal from your DVD player (many of which
> have surround-sound decoders already built-in).
> So the choice is yours decode the sound in the
> player or decode the sound in the receiver.
>
> Here's the rub: just because the surround-sound decoder
> in your DVD player seems to be better than the one in your
> receiver, doesn't necessarily mean that the decoder that
> comes in a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player will continue that
> tradition and there is no way (except by auditioning at
> home before buying) to tell beforehand.

tell me about it!

i still remember my 1st big, heavy, expensive
solid state amp, circa 1975

what a major learning experience/disappointment
that was. :(

but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
(or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?

also, don't get me wrong, the Denon AVR is rather
good and i don't plan to toss it out

> In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
> determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.

as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
as to what reason(s) the difference is due to

for the moment, so long as i can set up the unit remotes
to easily switch to the best sound setup, i'm a happy camper

bill

> It's the
> decoder you are using. With the 6 individual RCAs you are decoding the
> surround-sound in the DVD player itself, and with TOSLINK or HDMI, you are
> using your AVR to do the decoding. It is possible for one decoder chip to be
> better sounding than another and that's doubtless what you are experiencing.

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill <trek@worldwide,net > wrote:
> Sonnova wrote:

> > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
> > (in article <fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com >):

> >>surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
> >>
> >>for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
> >>sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
> >>inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
> >>sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?
> >>
> >>i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
> >>or an HDMI connection
> >>
> >>for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
> >>of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
> >>and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables
> >>
> >>agreed or disagreed?

> > Sounds to me like what you are saying is that
> > you like the surround-sound decoder chip in
> > your DVD player better than you like the one
> > in your AVR because that's the only difference.

> my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD

> my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

> if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
> i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
> meaning that it raised a couple of other
> possibilities including that the audio data
> transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
> not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA

again, if you are applying processing to the
signal in the player for one output, and in the
AVR for another, then unless the processing is the
same, the final sound may be different.

For a fairer test, turn off all processing in
both (except perhaps for speaker levels, to match
levels) and compare the two.

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Steven Sullivan wrote:

> willbill <trek@worldwide,net > wrote:

>>my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD
>>my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI
>>
>>if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
>>i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
>>meaning that it raised a couple of other
>>possibilities including that the audio data
>>transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
>>not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA

> again, if you are applying processing to the
> signal in the player for one output, and in the
> AVR for another, then unless the processing is the
> same, the final sound may be different.

processing in the player is the same
for both listening comparisons

the primary diff is the decoder used,
secondarily the audio cables used,
with a third small diff being the
subwoffer boost

bill

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:59 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article <fhaopb0281r@news3.newsguy,com >):

> Sonnova wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
>> (in article <fh77d801f39@news1.newsguy,com >):
>
>>> surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI
>>>
>>> for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
>>> sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
>>> inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
>>> sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?
>>>
>>> i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
>>> or an HDMI connection
>>>
>>> for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
>>> of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
>>> and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables
>>>
>>> agreed or disagreed?
>
>> Sounds to me like what you are saying is that
>> you like the surround-sound decoder chip in
>> your DVD player better than you like the one
>> in your AVR because that's the only difference.
>
> my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD
>
> my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI
>
> if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
> i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
> meaning that it raised a couple of other
> possibilities including that the audio data
> transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
> not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA

Let's try again. TOSLINK and HDMI are not carrying audio at all, they are
carrying the digital bit stream. The RCA's ARE carrying audio. The OPPO has a
very good reputation for sounding extremely good, so it doesn't surprise me
that you find the OPPO's decoder to be better than the Denon's.

>> TOSLINK and HDMI carry the un-decoded 5.1
>> DIGITAL bit stream from the player to the
>> Dolby/DTS decoder in your receiver,
>> where it's processed into analog,
>
> yes, i'm aware of that
>
>> while the 6 RCAs carry the already decoded
>> ANALOG signal from your DVD player (many of which
>> have surround-sound decoders already built-in).
>> So the choice is yours decode the sound in the
>> player or decode the sound in the receiver.
>>
>> Here's the rub: just because the surround-sound decoder
>> in your DVD player seems to be better than the one in your
>> receiver, doesn't necessarily mean that the decoder that
>> comes in a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player will continue that
>> tradition and there is no way (except by auditioning at
>> home before buying) to tell beforehand.
>
> tell me about it!
>
> i still remember my 1st big, heavy, expensive
> solid state amp, circa 1975
>
> what a major learning experience/disappointment
> that was. :(
>
> but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
> thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
> (or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
> as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.
>
> also, don't get me wrong, the Denon AVR is rather
> good and i don't plan to toss it out
>
>> In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
>> determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.
>
> as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
> and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
> as to what reason(s) the difference is due to

Actually, it's not an open question. You are comparing apples to oranges.
HDMI/TOSLINK is digital, and the RCAs are analog. You're just moving the
location of the digital decode for your surround sound. It's that cut-and
dry.

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:59 -0800, willbill wrote:

>>my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD
>>
>>my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI
>>
>>if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
>>i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
>>meaning that it raised a couple of other
>>possibilities including that the audio data
>>transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
>>not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA

> Let's try again. TOSLINK and HDMI are not carrying audio at all,
> they are carrying the digital bit stream.

audio is audio

the diffs are the transport mechanism and whether
the mechanical recorded source is digital or analog;
the usual starting source (performance) is normally
analog audio

> The RCA's ARE carrying audio. The OPPO has a
> very good reputation for sounding extremely good,
> so it doesn't surprise me that you find the OPPO's
> decoder to be better than the Denon's.

yes, the OPPO does have a great reputation

so yes, the decoder is a very real possibility

>>but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
>>thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
>>(or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
>>as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?

> I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
> AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is why
> I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've never
> tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.

the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong. :)

you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)

odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
with the toslink optical input. :)

>>>In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
>>>determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.

>>as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
>>and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
>>as to what reason(s) the difference is due to

> Actually, it's not an open question. You are comparing apples to oranges.
> HDMI/TOSLINK is digital, and the RCAs are analog. You're just moving the
> location of the digital decode for your surround sound. It's that cut-and
> dry.

in my long experience, audio is *never* cut-and-dry

and i'm confident that i'm not comparing apples to oranges

bill

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article <fhddpk02svg@news2.newsguy,com >):

> Sonnova wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:59 -0800, willbill wrote:
>
>>> my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD
>>>
>>> my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI
>>>
>>> if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
>>> i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
>>> meaning that it raised a couple of other
>>> possibilities including that the audio data
>>> transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
>>> not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA
>
>> Let's try again. TOSLINK and HDMI are not carrying audio at all,
>> they are carrying the digital bit stream.
>
> audio is audio

and digital is digital, but digital isn't "audio" until it is decoded, nor is
"audio" digital.
>
> the diffs are the transport mechanism and whether
> the mechanical recorded source is digital or analog;
> the usual starting source (performance) is normally
> analog audio

But the transport mechanism is the same for both sets of outputs.
>
>> The RCA's ARE carrying audio. The OPPO has a
>> very good reputation for sounding extremely good,
>> so it doesn't surprise me that you find the OPPO's
>> decoder to be better than the Denon's.
>
> yes, the OPPO does have a great reputation
>
> so yes, the decoder is a very real possibility
>
>>> but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
>>> thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
>>> (or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
>>> as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?
>
>> I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
>> AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
>> why
>> I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
>> never
>> tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.
>
> the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
> does *not* have 6 analog outputs!
>
> correct me if i'm wrong. :)

It might not, I've never actually looked.

> you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
> surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
> presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)

I've never heard any difference between TOSLINK digital, and Coax digital

> odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
> with the toslink optical input. :)

I doubt if there is any difference. In fact, when TOSLINK first appeared,
many audiophiles found just the opposite to be true. I.E., that TOSLINK
sounded distinctly inferior to either coax or glass-fiber, and indeed, some
tests showed that the bandwidth of many early TOSLINK setups was much
narrower than that of either coax or glass-fiber. However, that difference
has been long since addressed. The optical transducers on both ends of modern
TOSLINK connections have been significantly improved.
>
>>>> In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
>>>> determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.
>
>>> as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
>>> and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
>>> as to what reason(s) the difference is due to
>
>> Actually, it's not an open question. You are comparing apples to oranges.
>> HDMI/TOSLINK is digital, and the RCAs are analog. You're just moving the
>> location of the digital decode for your surround sound. It's that cut-and
>> dry.
>
> in my long experience, audio is *never* cut-and-dry
>
> and i'm confident that i'm not comparing apples to oranges
>

Believe me. It CAN'T be anything else.

Re: surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote
> (in article <fhddpk02svg@news2.newsguy,com >):

>>Sonnova wrote:

>>>I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
>>>AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
>>>is why I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent.
>>>I've never tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.

>>the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
>>does *not* have 6 analog outputs!
>>
>>correct me if i'm wrong. :)

> It might not, I've never actually looked.

fwiw, i thought that it did but then went
out to www .toshiba,com and checked and
discovered that of the 6 current models
only the most expensive of each line
has 6 analog outputs!

so i can't justify one for it's ability
to upscale normal DVD movies

>>you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
>>surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
>>presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)
>
>
> I've never heard any difference between TOSLINK digital, and Coax digital
>
>
>>odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
>>with the toslink optical input. :)
>
>
> I doubt if there is any difference. In fact, when TOSLINK first appeared,
> many audiophiles found just the opposite to be true. I.E., that TOSLINK
> sounded distinctly inferior to either coax or glass-fiber, and indeed, some
> tests showed that the bandwidth of many early TOSLINK setups was much
> narrower than that of either coax or glass-fiber. However, that difference
> has been long since addressed. The optical transducers on both ends of modern
> TOSLINK connections have been significantly improved.

you might actually try connecting sound
with toslink again with your current AVR

the main key thing that i listen for
is that the sound is less flat

but going back to your HD-A2, do you find the
surround sound of the HD-DVD movies, that you've
so far gotten, to be noticeably superior to that
of ordinary DVD movies?

to my mind, better surround audio is the one real
trump card that they can play with hi def movies.
but so far they don't seem to have done it;
at least not yet. they certainly have plenty
of great source material in the vaults

bill