Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

Hello everyone. I enjoy music, all kinds of music from country,
bluegrass, classic rock, classical, jazz, (some) modern rock, old
school hip-hop, and "bass" cd's. I do not listening to any type of
music for a long period of time...meaning months of classical and
months of country. I listen to whatever, whenever. I consider myself
to be a beginner in High End auido. I want quality on a budget. I
want to get into the entry level as far as my "high end" experence is
concerned. The mass market stuff you get from a chain electronics
store sounds poor to me. I want to step up and become a better
listener, learn what to look for in better components, etc.
I am visually imp[aired, legally blind and feel that my ears are
"tweaked" a bit to compensate for my eyes, and that is one of the
reasons I want a better audio experience. I have been looking online
and I see that there is much controversy in the high end world.
Digital vs analog, tube vs solid state, classical vs rock, value
products vs ultra rare and pricey, etc. I see that some read and
support the main audio publications such as Stereophile and TAS, while
other shy against them and feel they are too commercial to be taken
seriously.
I am a simple person and I do not care about hype. I am a beginner
who wants quality over hype. I enjoy simple, clean looking,
"sleeper", or bang for the buck type of items. I currently own a
Tivoli Audio Model Two table radio with the optional Model
Subwoofer.
I do not have the money, being on a fixed income, to even begin to
afford those products talked about in most high end publications. I
am very pleased with my Model Two radio for what it is. No it will
not fill your room with sound or allow you to feel the bass from a
jazz recording, but overall for the money, it is a great buy for me.
In a few months I would like to start putting together an entry level
audio system. What advice do you have for a beginner? Do you buy new
or used? Do you buy products made in the USA, England, or does Japan
actually make high end products that are good? I live in an area that
has plenty of mainstream electronics stores but nothing high end that
I know of. Are there any books, magazines, websites , clubs that you
would recommend? Thank you for the help.

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On 3 Jan 2008 23:31:14 GMT, SimpleMan <lovenhim@gmail,com > wrote:

>In a few months I would like to start putting together an entry level
>audio system. What advice do you have for a beginner?

First, set a budget. Then, get out there and listen

> Do you buy new or used?

Yes, either or both.

> Do you buy products made in the USA, England, or does Japan
>actually make high end products that are good?

That is a social/political decision, not an audio decision.

> I live in an area that
>has plenty of mainstream electronics stores but nothing high end that
>I know of.

How high end? You plead (near) poverty yet say that the mainstream
stores are not high-end enough for you.

Kal

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:11:25 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article <flk84t02qcp@news4.newsguy,com >):

> On 3 Jan 2008 23:31:14 GMT, SimpleMan <lovenhim@gmail,com > wrote:
>
>> In a few months I would like to start putting together an entry level
>> audio system. What advice do you have for a beginner?
>
> First, set a budget. Then, get out there and listen
>
>> Do you buy new or used?
>
> Yes, either or both.
>
>> Do you buy products made in the USA, England, or does Japan
>> actually make high end products that are good?
>
> That is a social/political decision, not an audio decision.
>
>> I live in an area that
>> has plenty of mainstream electronics stores but nothing high end that
>> I know of.
>
> How high end? You plead (near) poverty yet say that the mainstream
> stores are not high-end enough for you.
>
> Kal

Buy used, There are good used equipment values out there. Even some
originally expensive and very good equipment can be had used very reasonably.
If you haven't formed a preference yet, stick to solid-state used equipment
as used tube gear generally commands a higher resale price - great if you're
selling, not so great if you're buying. I once had to almost give away a
really nice, almost new pair of Fosgate Hafler solid-state amps to get rid
of them. Even so, I had to repost them on Craig's list FOUR times before I
got a single bite. There are bargains out there!

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Jan 3, 6:31 pm, SimpleMan <loven...@gmail,com > wrote:

> In a few months I would like to start putting together an entry level
> audio system.  What advice do you have for a beginner?  Do you buy new
> or used?  Do you buy products made in the USA, England, or does Japan
> actually make high end products that are good?  I live in an area that
> has plenty of mainstream electronics stores but nothing high end that
> I know of.  Are there any books, magazines, websites , clubs that you
> would recommend?  Thank you for the help.

First, a disclaimer: I am among that band of folks who believe that
differences among amps, CD players and wires are trivial to non-
existent in most cases. What matters are your speakers and how your
speakers sound in your room. Just so's you know where I'm coming from.

The "mass market stuff you get from a chain electronics store" sounds
poor because most of the speakers they offer sound poor (and because
the whole environment is horrible for listening). You can safely buy
your electronics (CD player and amp) from these places (or their
online equivalents), if you choose your speakers more carefully. IOW,
think about a system consisting of:
1) a name-brand mass-market DVD player (yes, DVD player)
2) a name-brand mass-market stereo receiver
3) a budget high-end pair of speakers

To really help you, we'll need some more info. For starters:
1) What's your overall budget? $500? $1000? $2000? More?
2) Do you want a 2-channel system or a multi-channel system?
3) What media do you use--CD, LP, MP3, etc.?
4) How large is the room you'll be playing this in?

There's lots of used gear on eBay and Audiogon, but you need to know
what you're looking for. Beginners are probably safer buying new.
Where something is made really isn't important. (That said, Japanese
receivers and DVD players are fine, and Canadian speakers tend to be
pretty good.)

As for magazines, I urge you to ignore subjective reviews. The speaker
measurements in Stereophile are top-notch (and they sometimes review
very inexpensive speakers, so check their Web site for any models
you're interested in). One magazine worth checking out is The Sensible
Sound, which tends to focus on the non-esoteric.

For web sites, there's good info at www .audioholics,com , and you can
download free back issues of The Audio Critic at www .theaudiocritic,com .
But if you want the best possible information, you should listen to me
and me alone. :-)

bob

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Jan 3, 6:31 pm, SimpleMan <loven...@gmail,com > wrote:

> I would like to start putting together an entry level
> audio system.  What advice do you have for a beginner?  Do you buy new
> or used?  Do you buy products made in the USA, England, or does Japan
> actually make high end products that are good?  I live in an area that
> has plenty of mainstream electronics stores but nothing high end that
> I know of.  Are there any books, magazines, websites , clubs that you
> would recommend?  Thank you for the help.

OK, a couple of things first:

a) Where are you? There is a huge difference between being in the Mid-
Atlantic or Northeast coastal regions vs. being in the rural midwest.
b) What is your budget?
c) How handy are you? How much are you willing to take on, in other
words?
d) What do you want to have at the end of the exercise?

I have a pretty nice system (call it #1) that has about $350 in real
dollars in it sitting in our family room. I have another one beside it
(#2) that has less than $200 in it. The TOL system (#3) (that would be
TOL in my opinion - not necessarily that of anyone else here) has
perhaps $900 in it. The wife-friendly system (#4) has $400 in it.

#3
Revox A720 tuner-pre-amp (Paid $200) - needed lamps and cleaning of
the controls
AR3a Speakers (Paid $100) - needed attention to the
crossovers
Revox B215 Cassette (Paid $67) - needed nothing but was rack-
mount type
Sony CDP200 (200-disc) CD player (Paid $44) - needed nothing
Revox B795 TT & Ortophon cartridge (came on a trade) - $70 for a new
stylus
Citation 16 power-amp (Paid $290) - needed nothing

#1
Dynaco FM3 - Paid $10 -needed alignment
Dynaco PAS3 - came on a trade - raised from the dead
Dynaco ST-35 - came on a trade - raised from the dead
Rabco ST-6 TT w/shure cartridge - came on a trade - $60 for new stylus
Yamaha CD Changer - purchased new overseas for $200
AR Athena sub-sat speakers - came on a trade needed nothing

#2
Revox B251 integrated amp ($100) - needed nothing
HK 500 tuner ($50) - needed nothing
No-Name 5-disc CD changer ($39 new from Rex Appliances)
AR TSW-110 speakers ($45) - needed nothing

#4 - wife-friendly
AR Receiver - curbside find brought back from the dead
AR3a speakers ($200 this time)
Revox B225 CD player ($200)

And at present from various sources including curbside picks, stuff
left on the porch, flea-market finds and so forth are the means and
madnesses for several additional systems including tube equipment from
Dynaco and Scott, US and German equipment from Revox, AR, Harmon-
Kardon and others, speakers from Dynaco, AR, Revox and others. Much of
this wretched excess will be taken to Kutztown in May for disposal.

But the point of the list above is that very nice stuff may be had
with patience and persistence merely by putting yourself in harm's
way. If you are handy with electronics and have some basic tools and
can read a schematic your scope is even wider.

Single most critical Truism of the Audio Hobby: Speakers are the
weakest link and (should) represent the largest investment of time and
treasure in any system. Work backwards from them. Listen to many, and
if you can listen to them over time. Further, with surround-rot being
rampant on speakers of a certain vintage, if you are willing to repair
surrounds (takes about an hour of careful and persnickety work per
speaker to get it *perfect*, and some bucks from $15 - $40 per pair
depending on materials chosen and size), you can get some very nice
bargains.

Good luck.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

Peter Wieck wrote:

>

> Single most critical Truism of the Audio Hobby: Speakers are the
> weakest link and (should) represent the largest investment of time and
> treasure in any system. Work backwards from them. Listen to many, and
> if you can listen to them over time. Further, with surround-rot being
> rampant on speakers of a certain vintage, if you are willing to repair
> surrounds (takes about an hour of careful and persnickety work per
> speaker to get it *perfect*, and some bucks from $15 - $40 per pair
> depending on materials chosen and size), you can get some very nice
> bargains.
>
Peter, could you elaborate somewhat about how your go about repairing
surrounds in older speakers? How is this done, and are there kits or
other supplies that could be purchased to get the job done with a
minimum of hassle? Also, is your methodology good for all kinds of
speakers, or only for speakers of certain types, or with certain kinds
of surround materials?

Thanks,
Jim Cate

Re: Getting Started - - Repairing Speaker Surrounds Q...

JimC wrote:
> Peter Wieck wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Single most critical Truism of the Audio Hobby: Speakers are the
>> weakest link and (should) represent the largest investment of time and
>> treasure in any system. Work backwards from them. Listen to many, and
>> if you can listen to them over time. Further, with surround-rot being
>> rampant on speakers of a certain vintage, if you are willing to repair
>> surrounds (takes about an hour of careful and persnickety work per
>> speaker to get it *perfect*, and some bucks from $15 - $40 per pair
>> depending on materials chosen and size), you can get some very nice
>> bargains.
>>
> Peter, could you elaborate somewhat about how your go about repairing
> surrounds in older speakers? How is this done, and are there kits or
> other supplies that could be purchased to get the job done with a
> minimum of hassle? Also, is your methodology good for all kinds of
> speakers, or only for speakers of certain types, or with certain kinds
> of surround materials?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Cate

I'm not Peter...

In the case of foam surrounds that have disintegrated, the proceedure is
to obtain replacement surrounds of similar or identical construction.
Carefully remove the old foam from both the cone and the basket area.
That usually means removing the old "gasket" that is over the foam on the
basket.

There are instructions for doing this, and for "re-coning" on the internet,
they are a good reference.

Regluing the new surround onto the old cone is something of an art.
You'll need, above all else to make 100% certain that the old cone is not
'cocked' or shifted off to the side, that can cause the voice coil to
rub in the gap.

My technique is to utilize a two part gluing - depending on where the
foam attaches to the cone (outside or rear) and how the new foam surround
wants to fit, I'll glue up either the cone side or the basket side first.
Sometimes I'll use a spacer(s) to keep the foam from contacting the surface
that I don't want to align first.

I use water based contact cement for the job.
That gives you *exactly one shot* at it.
Thus the need for spacers or else a sequence where you can coat both parts
with a film of cement once either the cone side or the basket side is
glued in place.

There are a number of sources for foam replacment surrounds and kits.
Parts Express and MCM probably sell them, and they're all over the internet.

- -bear

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Jan 5, 3:35 pm, JimC <avoc...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:

> Peter, could you elaborate somewhat about how your go about repairing
> surrounds in older speakers? How is this done, and are there kits or
> other supplies that could be purchased to get the job done with a
> minimum of hassle? Also, is your methodology good for all kinds of
> speakers, or only for speakers of certain types, or with certain kinds
> of surround materials?

Jim:

There are any number of kits for about every decent speaker made. Do a
search on "Speaker Surround Kits" and you will be guided to both
generic and maker-specific sources. Input your specific maker if you
have one - otherwise just the generic terms.

It is really no trick at all - just a bit of time and patience.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

Peter Wieck wrote:
> On Jan 5, 3:35 pm, JimC <avoc...@sbcglobal,net > wrote:
>
>
>>Peter, could you elaborate somewhat about how your go about repairing
>>surrounds in older speakers? How is this done, and are there kits or
>>other supplies that could be purchased to get the job done with a
>>minimum of hassle? Also, is your methodology good for all kinds of
>>speakers, or only for speakers of certain types, or with certain kinds
>>of surround materials?
>
>
> Jim:
>
> There are any number of kits for about every decent speaker made. Do a
> search on "Speaker Surround Kits" and you will be guided to both
> generic and maker-specific sources. Input your specific maker if you
> have one - otherwise just the generic terms.
>
> It is really no trick at all - just a bit of time and patience.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Wyncote, PA
>
Thanks. I'll look into those sites.

Jim

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

Ok here are some answers to questions that have been asked. I live in
the south east USA. I am in the process of learning about basic
electronics as a hobby but at this point do not know very much, so at
this point and time doing repairs on well priced, non-working used
gear is not an option. The gear will be going into a 15x18 foot
living room in an apartment. I have been looking at speaker brands
such as NHT and PSB and was thinking about bookshelf size for a room
like that. How about a used pair of NHT Super zero or Super One's? I
know I would need a sub woofer with those speakers. I have found a
NAD stereo receiver that I may be able to get cheap, it is used and at
this point I am not sure of the model #. I am not sure if I want a 2
channel system or home theater system as of yet. I am starting to
think that it may be smarter to piece the system together rather than
have a under $500 budget to buy an entire system. I am thinking that
if over time you invest lets say maybe $1000 I will end up with a
better overall system. In my earlier post I mentioned about not
having high end stores in my area, well I have located two of them. I
have not been having a good experence with my local Circuit City of
Best Buy. The two other stores are mom & pop stores that sell brands
like Polk, NHT, NAD, Mcintosh, PSB, Definitive Technology, Panamax,
and Velodyne. I can purchase new and used from either of those stores
and that may be a good place to look for my entry level gear.

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Jan 6, 11:22 am, SimpleMan <loven...@gmail,com > wrote:
> Ok here are some answers to questions that have been asked.  I live in
> the south east USA.  

>bunch-O-stuff snipped<

OK, lots to go on here. $1000 spent judiciously will give you a very
nice system with patience and care. Let's start with the size of your
room:

15 x 18 floor area, assigning an arbitrary 9 foot ceiling gives you
2430 cubic feet. Assuming a normally furnished room, not too bright,
not to flat, average number of windows, you will need substantial
speakers. Towers or larger bookshelf types (minimum 10" woofer, 12"
would be better). Now, you are into speaker efficiency. Using my AR3as
as an example, they give 85dB/meter@ 1 watt. So, a 100-watt/channel
amplifier is a good start. *MOST* speakers will be more efficient. So,
perhaps 60-100 watts would be a good starting point for you. Don't go
lower, you will be unhappy in a room that size.

Speakers I might suggest that show up fairly often on the used market:

Towers:
AR9, AR9LS, AR90, ARM6, ARM5
Infinity Alphas (several part numbers)
Polk Audio (several part numbers)
Klipsch (several part numbers)

Bookshelf & "Other" (and these are risky unless very carefully placed
in a room that size:

AR3a, AR11, AR10pi, AR2ax, ARLST, ARLST2, ARMST, AR303
Large Advents
Dynaco A25, A10, A30
KLH6
Polk, ADS, Klipsch, Krell

Then, there are electrostatics... an acquired taste.

But start with the speakers. Really. All else will be driven from
there. Amplification is pretty cut-and-dried, one reputable amp will
sound much like any other reputable amp. Similarly, CD players - the
$39 Wal-Mart special will not be substantially better or different
than the $1400 exotica - except in build quality. But they all pretty
much use the same chips in pretty much the same way.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:07:25 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article <flrfud013a0@news5.newsguy,com >):

> On Jan 6, 11:22 am, SimpleMan <loven...@gmail,com > wrote:
>> Ok here are some answers to questions that have been asked.  I live in
>> the south east USA.  
>
>> bunch-O-stuff snipped<
>
> OK, lots to go on here. $1000 spent judiciously will give you a very
> nice system with patience and care. Let's start with the size of your
> room:
>
> 15 x 18 floor area, assigning an arbitrary 9 foot ceiling gives you
> 2430 cubic feet. Assuming a normally furnished room, not too bright,
> not to flat, average number of windows, you will need substantial
> speakers. Towers or larger bookshelf types (minimum 10" woofer, 12"
> would be better). Now, you are into speaker efficiency. Using my AR3as
> as an example, they give 85dB/meter@ 1 watt. So, a 100-watt/channel
> amplifier is a good start. *MOST* speakers will be more efficient. So,
> perhaps 60-100 watts would be a good starting point for you. Don't go
> lower, you will be unhappy in a room that size.
>
> Speakers I might suggest that show up fairly often on the used market:
>
> Towers:
> AR9, AR9LS, AR90, ARM6, ARM5
> Infinity Alphas (several part numbers)
> Polk Audio (several part numbers)
> Klipsch (several part numbers)
>
> Bookshelf & "Other" (and these are risky unless very carefully placed
> in a room that size:
>
> AR3a, AR11, AR10pi, AR2ax, ARLST, ARLST2, ARMST, AR303
> Large Advents
> Dynaco A25, A10, A30
> KLH6
> Polk, ADS, Klipsch, Krell
>
> Then, there are electrostatics... an acquired taste.

What's "acquired" about electrostatics? The basic tenets of electrostatic
speakers is very right. They are lightening fast, have extended high
frequency response and if they are designed correctly, have a wide sound
stage that can be enjoyed from any place in the room. Of course there are
exceptions such as the Innersound speakers, which, while they sound good
require that one sit with one's head in a vice because they have no
horizontal dispersion.
>
> But start with the speakers. Really. All else will be driven from
> there. Amplification is pretty cut-and-dried, one reputable amp will
> sound much like any other reputable amp.

Says you. That's your opinion and not a fact.

Similarly, CD players - the
> $39 Wal-Mart special will not be substantially better or different
> than the $1400 exotica - except in build quality. But they all pretty
> much use the same chips in pretty much the same way.

Again. Says you. That's your opinion and not a fact.

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Jan 7, 6:55 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:07:25 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote

> > But start with the speakers. Really. All else will be driven from
> > there. Amplification is pretty cut-and-dried, one reputable amp will
> > sound much like any other reputable amp.
>
> Says you. That's your opinion and not a fact.

An opinion supported by a fair bit of hard evidence. The contrary
opinion can make no such claim.

>  Similarly, CD players - the
>
> > $39 Wal-Mart special will not be substantially better or different
> > than the $1400 exotica - except in build quality. But they all pretty
> > much use the same chips in pretty much the same way.
>
> Again. Says you. That's your opinion and not a fact.

Again, supported by hard evidence.

bob

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Jan 7, 6:55 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:07:25 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote
> (in article <flrfud01...@news5.newsguy,com >):
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 6, 11:22 am, SimpleMan <loven...@gmail,com > wrote:
> >> Ok here are some answers to questions that have been asked.  I live in
> >> the south east USA.  
>
> >> bunch-O-stuff snipped<
>
> > OK, lots to go on here. $1000 spent judiciously will give you a very
> > nice system with patience and care. Let's start with the size of your
> > room:
>
> > 15 x 18 floor area, assigning an arbitrary 9 foot ceiling gives you
> > 2430 cubic feet. Assuming a normally furnished room, not too bright,
> > not to flat, average number of windows, you will need substantial
> > speakers. Towers or larger bookshelf types (minimum 10" woofer, 12"
> > would be better). Now, you are into speaker efficiency. Using my AR3as
> > as an example, they give 85dB/meter@ 1 watt. So, a 100-watt/channel
> > amplifier is a good start. *MOST* speakers will be more efficient. So,
> > perhaps 60-100 watts would be a good starting point for you. Don't go
> > lower, you will be unhappy in a room that size.
>
> > Speakers I might suggest that show up fairly often on the used market:
>
> > Towers:
> > AR9, AR9LS, AR90, ARM6, ARM5
> > Infinity Alphas (several part numbers)
> > Polk Audio (several part numbers)
> > Klipsch (several part numbers)
>
> > Bookshelf & "Other" (and these are risky unless very carefully placed
> > in a room that size:
>
> > AR3a, AR11, AR10pi, AR2ax, ARLST, ARLST2, ARMST, AR303
> > Large Advents
> > Dynaco A25, A10, A30
> > KLH6
> > Polk, ADS, Klipsch, Krell
>
> > Then, there are electrostatics... an acquired taste.
>
> What's "acquired" about electrostatics? The basic tenets of electrostatic
> speakers is very right. They are lightening fast, have extended high
> frequency response and if they are designed correctly, have a wide sound
> stage that can be enjoyed from any place in the room. Of course there are
> exceptions such as the Innersound speakers, which, while they sound good
> require that one sit with one's head in a vice because they have no
> horizontal dispersion.

Typically, ES speakers are light in the bass region, physically quite
large, require placement with far more care than typical speakers, and
are extremely environmentally sensitive - an acquired taste.

> > But start with the speakers. Really. All else will be driven from
> > there. Amplification is pretty cut-and-dried, one reputable amp will
> > sound much like any other reputable amp.
>
> Says you. That's your opinion and not a fact.

With respect, I have observed far too many self-described golden-eared
individuals unable to tell the difference between a Dynaco ST120 and
an Audio Research, Mark Levinson or similar power-amp. And as the
typical unmodified ST120 sounds like glass-in-a-blender, that is quite
an interesting observation. Point being that within the parameters of
the OP's post, a product from any given reputable maker will sound
much the same as the product from any other reputable maker of similar
type - so, comparing SS amps to SS amps or Tube amps to Tube amps.

>
>  Similarly, CD players - the
>
> > $39 Wal-Mart special will not be substantially better or different
> > than the $1400 exotica - except in build quality. But they all pretty
> > much use the same chips in pretty much the same way.
>
> Again. Says you. That's your opinion and not a fact.-

Mpffff.... If you say so. The preponderance of the evidence strongly
suggests otherwise. And, again, within the parameters of the original
post, spending large bucks on a exotic CD player at the expense of
better speakers would be silly. Almost anything out there will do just
fine if longevity is not a factor. The OP has stated that he is not
equipped or willing to do repairs or restoration to expensive-but-
needy "used" equipment. So, whatever he buys "used" will have to be
working properly from the git-go. This really does let out CD players
of any nature on the "used" market unless they come from some sort of
dealer with some sort of warranty. Similarly, speakers. I would
purchase a pair of AR9 or AR9LS speakers with bad surrounds in a
hummingbird heartbeat (if I had the space) over similar-range speakers
"new" - as I can and have done such repairs with excellent results. I
have also done major repairs to other sorts of equipment from
amplifiers to turntables to tape decks to tuners. But that is not for
everyone.

And, for the record, when the hood is up, items of a decent build-
quality are remarkably similar in their innards, circuitry and even
component choices. So, my opinions are based on now-35 years in the
hobby and hundreds of components crossing my bench or passing through
my hands. And since it is *ONLY* a hobby for me, I have no investment
in one result over another, over another - or even another.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Getting Started And Want To Head In The Right Direction

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:11:37 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article <fm13fp0243v@news3.newsguy,com >):

> On Jan 7, 6:55 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:07:25 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote
>> (in article <flrfud01...@news5.newsguy,com >):
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 11:22 am, SimpleMan <loven...@gmail,com > wrote:
>>>> Ok here are some answers to questions that have been asked.  I live in
>>>> the south east USA.  
>>
>>>> bunch-O-stuff snipped<
>>
>>> OK, lots to go on here. $1000 spent judiciously will give you a very
>>> nice system with patience and care. Let's start with the size of your
>>> room:
>>
>>> 15 x 18 floor area, assigning an arbitrary 9 foot ceiling gives you
>>> 2430 cubic feet. Assuming a normally furnished room, not too bright,
>>> not to flat, average number of windows, you will need substantial
>>> speakers. Towers or larger bookshelf types (minimum 10" woofer, 12"
>>> would be better). Now, you are into speaker efficiency. Using my AR3as
>>> as an example, they give 85dB/meter@ 1 watt. So, a 100-watt/channel
>>> amplifier is a good start. *MOST* speakers will be more efficient. So,
>>> perhaps 60-100 watts would be a good starting point for you. Don't go
>>> lower, you will be unhappy in a room that size.
>>
>>> Speakers I might suggest that show up fairly often on the used market:
>>
>>> Towers:
>>> AR9, AR9LS, AR90, ARM6, ARM5
>>> Infinity Alphas (several part numbers)
>>> Polk Audio (several part numbers)
>>> Klipsch (several part numbers)
>>
>>> Bookshelf & "Other" (and these are risky unless very carefully placed
>>> in a room that size:
>>
>>> AR3a, AR11, AR10pi, AR2ax, ARLST, ARLST2, ARMST, AR303
>>> Large Advents
>>> Dynaco A25, A10, A30
>>> KLH6
>>> Polk, ADS, Klipsch, Krell
>>
>>> Then, there are electrostatics... an acquired taste.
>>
>> What's "acquired" about electrostatics? The basic tenets of electrostatic
>> speakers is very right. They are lightening fast, have extended high
>> frequency response and if they are designed correctly, have a wide sound
>> stage that can be enjoyed from any place in the room. Of course there are
>> exceptions such as the Innersound speakers, which, while they sound good
>> require that one sit with one's head in a vice because they have no
>> horizontal dispersion.
>
> Typically, ES speakers are light in the bass region, physically quite
> large, require placement with far more care than typical speakers, and
> are extremely environmentally sensitive - an acquired taste.

No, that not taste that's a level of inconvenience. Most audiophiles seem to
feel that if it performs well, its worth the inconvenience. My Martin Logans
are by far the best sounding speakers for the money that I have ever had in
my listening room, and I've had all kinds in all price ranges. Yes there are
speakers that are better, but none anywhere close in price to My M-Ls come
within a country mile of them, performance wise.