Coat hangers for speaker cable?

Coat hangers for speaker cable?

The following link might be of interest to some readers here:

http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

I once used coat hangers as welding rod on my car's exhaust system...Why not
for speaker cable!! It might be a bit difficult to manipulate tho!

Rick
"jwvm" <jwvm@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:fqks6l0v99@news4.newsguy,com ...
> The following link might be of interest to some readers here:
>
> http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:15:01 -0800, jwvm wrote
(in article <fqks6l0v99@news4.newsguy,com >):

> The following link might be of interest to some readers here:
>
>
http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-
betwee
> n-monster-cable-and/

Interesting, but I'm not at all surprised. Are you?

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Mar 5, 9:53 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:15:01 -0800, jwvm wrote
> (in article <fqks6l0...@news4.newsguy,com >):
>
> > The following link might be of interest to some readers here:
>
> http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-
> betwee
>
> > n-monster-cable-and/
>
> Interesting, but I'm not at all surprised. Are you?

Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded THHN wire at
my electrical supply house. Stretch out what I need + 10%, tie one end
to a doorknob, chuck the other end in a drill and spin-to-length. A
couple of bits of heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the
appropriate connector (or just tin) and there you are. Cheap, quick,
custom-length, custom connectors... life is good.

http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring Solutions/Electrical Hook-Up -z- Building Wire/Insulation Type - THHN/106100802440

Comes in many colors (and gauges), and US$77 worth of wire (at present
prices) will last quite a while. Further, neither cats nor dogs nor
vermin will take on THHN-type wire unless they are well-and-truly
desperate.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:11:20 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote
(in article <fqpq680pr3@news5.newsguy,com >):

> On Mar 5, 9:53 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:15:01 -0800, jwvm wrote
>> (in article <fqks6l0...@news4.newsguy,com >):
>>
>>> The following link might be of interest to some readers here:
>>
>> http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-
>> betwee
>>
>>> n-monster-cable-and/
>>
>> Interesting, but I'm not at all surprised. Are you?
>
> Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded THHN wire at
> my electrical supply house. Stretch out what I need + 10%, tie one end
> to a doorknob, chuck the other end in a drill and spin-to-length. A
> couple of bits of heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the
> appropriate connector (or just tin) and there you are. Cheap, quick,
> custom-length, custom connectors... life is good.
>
>
http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring Solutions/Electri

> cal Hook-Up -z- Building Wire/Insulation Type - THHN/106100802440
>
> Comes in many colors (and gauges), and US$77 worth of wire (at present
> prices) will last quite a while. Further, neither cats nor dogs nor
> vermin will take on THHN-type wire unless they are well-and-truly
> desperate.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Wyncote, PA

That's an interesting solution. You are, of course, talking about speaker
cables, yes? Or do you make interconnects this way as well?

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Mar 7, 7:44 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:11:20 -0800, Peter Wieck wrote
> (in article <fqpq680...@news5.newsguy,com >):
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 5, 9:53 pm, Sonnova <sonn...@audiosanatorium,com > wrote:
> >> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:15:01 -0800, jwvm wrote
> >> (in article <fqks6l0...@news4.newsguy,com >):
>
> >>> The following link might be of interest to some readers here:
>
> >> http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-
> >> betwee
>
> >>> n-monster-cable-and/
>
> >> Interesting, but I'm not at all surprised. Are you?
>
> > Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded THHN wire at
> > my electrical supply house. Stretch out what I need + 10%, tie one end
> > to a doorknob, chuck the other end in a drill and spin-to-length. A
> > couple of bits of heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the
> > appropriate connector (or just tin) and there you are. Cheap, quick,
> > custom-length, custom connectors... life is good.
>
> http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring Solution...
>
> > cal Hook-Up -z- Building Wire/Insulation Type - THHN/106100802440
>
> > Comes in many colors (and gauges), and US$77 worth of wire (at present
> > prices) will last quite a while. Further, neither cats nor dogs nor
> > vermin will take on THHN-type wire unless they are well-and-truly
> > desperate.
>
> > Peter Wieck
> > Wyncote, PA
>
> That's an interesting solution. You are, of course, talking about speaker
> cables, yes? Or do you make interconnects this way as well?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Interconnects are typically purcased in lots from my local electronic
supply house (HBF Electronics, State Road, Philadelphia). They get
surplus interconnects from various sources, some good, some not-so-
good. So, when the good ones come along, I will purchase half-a-dozen
sets for about US$5/two meters. They work just fine. I have a constant
need because when I repair something and give it back, I always give
it back with fresh patch-cords.

I have nothing exotic going on, no great distances between components,
so a garden-variety patch-cord is all that is necessary.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

Peter Wieck wrote:

> Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded THHN wire at
> my electrical supply house. Stretch out what I need + 10%, tie one end
> to a doorknob, chuck the other end in a drill and spin-to-length. A
> couple of bits of heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the
> appropriate connector (or just tin) and there you are. Cheap, quick,
> custom-length, custom connectors... life is good.
>
> http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring Solutions/Electrical Hook-Up -z- Building Wire/Insulation Type - THHN/106100802440

i pulled down the .pdf spec file and it shows
19 strands. for 12 gauge, i wouldn't call it
"fine-stranded"

once you've twisted two pieces together (as you
outlined above), how flexible is it?

do you do the twist the same way that Monster
does with their speaker wire?

if anything might make a diff in speaker sound,
with speaker wire, it is gauge (more is better,
up to a practical point) and which way the
wire is twisted

all ears, bill

>
> Comes in many colors (and gauges), and US$77 worth of wire (at present
> prices) will last quite a while. Further, neither cats nor dogs nor
> vermin will take on THHN-type wire unless they are well-and-truly
> desperate.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Mar 9, 12:16 am, willbill <t...@worldwide,net > wrote:

> i pulled down the .pdf spec file and it shows
> 19 strands.  for 12 gauge, i wouldn't call it
> "fine-stranded"
>
> once you've twisted two pieces together (as you
> outlined above), how flexible is it?
>
> do you do the twist the same way that Monster
> does with their speaker wire?
>
> all ears, bill

THHN comes three ways: Solid, 7 strands @ 12Gauge and 19 strands @
12Gauge. Hence the "fine". The "fine-stranded" is also annealed a bit
better than the 7-strand version and is therefore somewhat softer. But
keep in mind with THHN, the insulation system is pretty stiff as well.

It is not nearly so flexible as zip-cord (a bunch cheaper than 12Gauge
zip if one can even find it) but in most applications, that is an
advantage as it stays where-put. One can also pull on it pretty hard
and against edges and around turns without risk of damage, an
advantage when running in wall cavities or under floors.

I do not do a tight spin, figure I am taking up about 10% of the
length in the twist (one foot in ten), that comes to about 10 twists/
foot. I am looking for manageability, not some sort of electrical
magic. At audio frequencies there is not much going on there anyway.
My longest run to-date has been 16 feet of wire reaching about 11 feet
overland. We are moving, so my next set up will have substantially
longer runs in one case, we shall see.

I have been known to put a reverse twist on the left wire - the drill
is a reversing type. But that is so I can say I did, no other reason.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

Peter Wieck wrote:

> On Mar 9, 12:16 am, willbill <t...@worldwide,net > wrote:
>
>> i pulled down the .pdf spec file and it shows
>> 19 strands. for 12 gauge, i wouldn't call it
>> "fine-stranded"
>>
>> once you've twisted two pieces together (as you
>> outlined above), how flexible is it?
>>
>> do you do the twist the same way that Monster
>> does with their speaker wire?
>>
>> all ears, bill

> THHN comes three ways: Solid, 7 strands @ 12Gauge and 19 strands @
> 12Gauge. Hence the "fine". The "fine-stranded" is also annealed a bit
> better than the 7-strand version and is therefore somewhat softer. But
> keep in mind with THHN, the insulation system is pretty stiff as well.

THHN has two layers of plastic type insulation. given that
it adds to the overall stiffness, why on earth did you go
with THHN?

i mean, the .pdf file also shows MTW, which is only one layer
of insulation, and specifically states that the copper
is "bare annealed copper" per the same specs as the THHN

> It is not nearly so flexible as zip-cord
> (a bunch cheaper than 12Gauge zip if one can even find it)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

agreed that the attraction is decent 12 gage
at a low price!

> but in most applications, that is an
> advantage as it stays where-put. One can also pull on it pretty hard
> and against edges and around turns without risk of damage, an
> advantage when running in wall cavities or under floors.

odds are you won't find any cats or dogs there! :)

mice are a (the?) key enemy of construction wiring insulin

>
> I do not do a tight spin, figure I am taking up about 10% of the
> length in the twist (one foot in ten), that comes to about 10 twists/
> foot. I am looking for manageability, not some sort of electrical
> magic. At audio frequencies there is not much going on there anyway.
> My longest run to-date has been 16 feet of wire reaching about 11 feet
> overland. We are moving, so my next set up will have substantially
> longer runs in one case, we shall see.
>
> I have been known to put a reverse twist on the left wire - the drill
> is a reversing type. But that is so I can say I did, no other reason.

i tend to agree that the direction of the twist
is unlikely to make any sound difference that
you can hear

given that the 19 strand 12 gage stuff you are
talking about has a twist of it's own, did you
find that the two strands were equally easy
to twist, regardless of which way you went?

fwiw, one of the things i did roughly 15/20 years
ago was to get some 18 gage solid hook-up wire
(single strand) with vinyl insulin. (Radio Shack,
i'm looking at a spool of it right now)

i used a drill, like you did, to twist it,
and made two lengths for my L/R speakers
(i wasn't doing surround like i am today)

i was more than a little surprised by how
decent it sounded (not unlike the title
of this thread)

i was in L.A. at that time and had easy
access to at least 4 large electronic
parts stores

anyway it was only later that it occurred
to me that the twist might make a diff,
and that if that were true then having
the copper strands as close to each other
as possible might be the way to go

while browsing one day, i saw some spools
of shellac coated 16 gage solid copper
(1 strand)

i actually made some speaker wire from it,
but after a couple of weeks grew increasingly
nervous about the risk of having a short
and blowing an amp

wow was that stuff stiff, and i didn't pull
on it nor bend it any more than i had to

bill

>
> Peter Wieck
> Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Mar 9, 12:18 pm, willbill <t...@worldwide,net > wrote:

> i mean, the .pdf file also shows MTW, which is only one layer
> of insulation, and specifically states that the copper
> is "bare annealed copper" per the same specs as the THHN

THHN is much thinner than MTW as the insulation is *very* thin, so it
pulls better. Further, due to the two layers, the insulation does not
nick or tear when pulled such as with MTW. It can take very tight
bends against sharp corners... and so forth. It is also my preference
- which clinches it.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

"Peter Wieck" <pfjw@aol,com > wrote in message
news:fqpq680pr3@news5.newsguy,com

> Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded
> THHN wire at my electrical supply house. Stretch out what
> I need + 10%, tie one end to a doorknob, chuck the other
> end in a drill and spin-to-length. A couple of bits of
> heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the appropriate
> connector (or just tin) and there you are. Cheap, quick,
> custom-length, custom connectors... life is good.
>
> http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring_Solutions/Electrical_Hook-Up_-z-_Building_Wire/Insulation_Type_-_THHN/106100802440

This looks pretty smart to me, although wire with lower voltage insulation
would be even smarter.

Besides the price, which is so low that it looks out-of-date, twisted pair
is electrically slightly superior to paralell pair AKA zip cord. Slightly
less inductance, and FWIW reduced external field, and better rejection of
EMI.

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Peter Wieck" <pfjw@aol,com > wrote

>> Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded
>> THHN wire at my electrical supply house. Stretch out what
>> I need + 10%, tie one end to a doorknob, chuck the other
>> end in a drill and spin-to-length. A couple of bits of
>> heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the appropriate
>> connector (or just tin) and there you are. Cheap, quick,
>> custom-length, custom connectors... life is good.
>>
>> http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring Solutions/Electrical Hook-Up -z- Building Wire/Insulation Type - THHN/106100802440

> This looks pretty smart to me, although wire with
> lower voltage insulation would be even smarter.

out of honest curiosity, why?

>
> Besides the price, which is so low that it looks out-of-date, twisted pair
> is electrically slightly superior to paralell pair AKA zip cord. Slightly
> less inductance, and FWIW reduced external field, and better rejection of
> EMI.

since there are two opposed ways of doing
the twist, am i correct that in thinking
that one is correct and one is wrong?

if yes, is the way that Monster twists
their speaker cable the correct way?

bill

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

"willbill" <trek@worldwide,net > wrote in message
news:fr4hb901o02@news4.newsguy,com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Peter Wieck" <pfjw@aol,com > wrote
>
>>> Mpffff.... I typically purchase 12 gauge, fine-stranded
>>> THHN wire at my electrical supply house. Stretch out
>>> what I need + 10%, tie one end to a doorknob, chuck the
>>> other end in a drill and spin-to-length. A couple of
>>> bits of heat-shrink tubing at each end, solder on the
>>> appropriate connector (or just tin) and there you are.
>>> Cheap, quick, custom-length, custom connectors... life
>>> is good.
>>> http :// web3.automationdirect,com /adc/Shopping/Catalog/Wiring_Solutions/Electrical_Hook-Up_-z-_Building_Wire/Insulation_Type_-_THHN/106100802440
>
>> This looks pretty smart to me, although wire with
>> lower voltage insulation would be even smarter.
>
> out of honest curiosity, why?

Lower voltage = thinner insulation = lower inductance.

>> Besides the price, which is so low that it looks
>> out-of-date, twisted pair is electrically slightly
>> superior to paralell pair AKA zip cord. Slightly less
>> inductance, and FWIW reduced external field, and better
>> rejection of EMI.

> since there are two opposed ways of doing
> the twist, am i correct that in thinking
> that one is correct and one is wrong?

Yes. Twisting either way is fine.

> if yes, is the way that Monster twists
> their speaker cable the correct way?

Either way is fine. Both the direction and the tightness of the twist have
minimal importance.

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Mar 10, 12:47 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:

> This looks pretty smart to me, although wire with lower voltage insulation
> would be even smarter.
>
>  Besides the price, which is so low that it looks out-of-date,

Price is current as of the date posted - copper is pretty volatile
these days but demand is way down - and as I have explained twice, I
pick THHN specifically so I can pull it through walls, under floors
and around corners within both without damage. I also don't worry
about it being chewed by mice, getting damp (crawl-spaces) sitting
beside a hot-water heat riser or much of anything else.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Re: Coat hangers for speaker cable?

On Mar 4, 8:15 pm, jwvm <j...@umich.edu> wrote:
> The following link might be of interest to some readers here:
>
> http :// www .engadget,com /2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-differen...

Yes, but what you do not realise is that they were Monster Coat
Hangers.....