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Not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles like the Middiot
Not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles like the Middiot
* theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1
"In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society
(Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't professional
engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper
that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind
listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a
year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player
undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original CD
standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
"Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land
audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the
formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continued
disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the
part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference
between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player and
switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
* theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1
"In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society
(Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't professional
engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper
that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind
listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a
year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player
undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original CD
standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
"Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land
audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the
formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continued
disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the
part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference
between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player and
switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
Re: Not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles like the Middiot
On Apr 18, 6:11 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop . com > wrote:
> * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&.=
..
>
> "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Socie=
ty
> (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't profession=
al
> engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper
> that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
> prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind
> listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a
> year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player
> undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
> processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original C=
D
> standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
>
> "Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-la=
nd
> audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the=
> formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
> similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continue=
d
> disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the
> part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
> suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
> review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
> Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference
> between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player a=
nd
> switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
I would suggest that these two should not buy one if it makes no
difference to them. ;-)
On Apr 18, 6:11 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop . com > wrote:
> * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&.=
..
>
> "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Socie=
ty
> (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't profession=
al
> engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper
> that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
> prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind
> listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a
> year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player
> undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
> processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original C=
D
> standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
>
> "Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-la=
nd
> audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the=
> formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
> similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continue=
d
> disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the
> part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
> suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
> review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
> Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference
> between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player a=
nd
> switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
I would suggest that these two should not buy one if it makes no
difference to them. ;-)
Re: Not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles like the Middiot
On 18 Apr, 19:55, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
<artygu...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 18, 6:11 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop . com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&=
...
>
> > "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Soc=
iety
> > (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't professi=
onal
> > engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough pape=
r
> > that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
> > prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blin=
d
> > listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than =
a
> > year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player=
> > undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
> > processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original=
CD
> > standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
>
> > "Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-=
land
> > audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as t=
he
> > formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
> > similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for contin=
ued
> > disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the=
> > part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
> > suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
> > review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
> > Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no differenc=
e
> > between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player=
and
> > switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible=
.
>
> I would suggest that these two should not buy one if it makes no
> difference to them. ;-)- Ascunde citatul -
>
Too late, eveidently they already bought one of each.
On 18 Apr, 19:55, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
<artygu...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> On Apr 18, 6:11 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop . com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&=
...
>
> > "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Soc=
iety
> > (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't professi=
onal
> > engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough pape=
r
> > that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
> > prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blin=
d
> > listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than =
a
> > year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player=
> > undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
> > processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original=
CD
> > standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
>
> > "Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-=
land
> > audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as t=
he
> > formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
> > similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for contin=
ued
> > disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the=
> > part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
> > suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
> > review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
> > Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no differenc=
e
> > between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player=
and
> > switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible=
.
>
> I would suggest that these two should not buy one if it makes no
> difference to them. ;-)- Ascunde citatul -
>
Too late, eveidently they already bought one of each.
Re: Not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles like the Middiot
On 18 Apr, 07:11, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop . com > wrote:
> * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&...
>
> "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society
> (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't professional
> engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper
> that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
> prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind
> listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a
> year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player
> undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
> processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original CD
> standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
>
> "Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land
> audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the
> formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
> similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continued
> disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the
> part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
> suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
> review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
> Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference
> between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player and
> switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
Totally meaningless.
You don't even know how to listen.
On 18 Apr, 07:11, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop . com > wrote:
> * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&...
>
> "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society
> (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't professional
> engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper
> that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They
> prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind
> listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a
> year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player
> undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A
> processor. That means there's no audible difference between the original CD
> standard ("Red Book") and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
>
> "Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land
> audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the
> formidable J. Robert Stuart of England's Meridian Audio and others with
> similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continued
> disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the
> part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my
> suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my
> review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The
> Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference
> between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player and
> switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
Totally meaningless.
You don't even know how to listen.
Re: Not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles like the Middiot
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop . com > wrote in message
news:q_CdnbarFoZSHJXVnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@comcast . com ...
> * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1
>
> "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering
> Society (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't
> professional engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a
> breakthrough paper that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering
> community. They prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds
> of double-blind listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period
> of more than a year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end
> SACD/DVD-A player undergoes no audible change when passed through a
> 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A processor.
They left a hole big enough to drive a truck through. They say,
"Moran do not say that 14 or 15 bits in a truncated CD are just as good as
20. What they say is that spot-on 16-bit/44.1-kHz processing is as good as
it gets, audibly."
I have been encountering this limitation in my recording of lieder, a 19th
century kind of parlor music involving a singer with piano. The desired
loudness of a song varies widely, which is problematic in a CD compilation.
In order to get a full 16 bits per track, each track must be separately
normalized, which prohibits a proportional volume relationship according to
the desires of the vocalist, who is in this case also the producer. With
more bits, it is possible to obtain proportional loudness of the tracks
according to the wishes of the producer.
So Meyer/Moran admit the need for more bits, unless they assert (and I would
be very surprised to hear them say) that proportional loudness in a
compilation is of no concern.
And with that, I see no need to publicize my skepticism. I have another
problem with SACD: because it is unmasterable by the individual, it
represents a mechanism to concentrate corporate power. I would rather wish
success on DVD-A, because, at least, these can be made and passed among
friends.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop . com > wrote in message
news:q_CdnbarFoZSHJXVnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@comcast . com ...
> * theaudiocritic . com /blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1
>
> "In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering
> Society (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren't
> professional engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a
> breakthrough paper that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering
> community. They prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds
> of double-blind listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period
> of more than a year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end
> SACD/DVD-A player undergoes no audible change when passed through a
> 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A processor.
They left a hole big enough to drive a truck through. They say,
"Moran do not say that 14 or 15 bits in a truncated CD are just as good as
20. What they say is that spot-on 16-bit/44.1-kHz processing is as good as
it gets, audibly."
I have been encountering this limitation in my recording of lieder, a 19th
century kind of parlor music involving a singer with piano. The desired
loudness of a song varies widely, which is problematic in a CD compilation.
In order to get a full 16 bits per track, each track must be separately
normalized, which prohibits a proportional volume relationship according to
the desires of the vocalist, who is in this case also the producer. With
more bits, it is possible to obtain proportional loudness of the tracks
according to the wishes of the producer.
So Meyer/Moran admit the need for more bits, unless they assert (and I would
be very surprised to hear them say) that proportional loudness in a
compilation is of no concern.
And with that, I see no need to publicize my skepticism. I have another
problem with SACD: because it is unmasterable by the individual, it
represents a mechanism to concentrate corporate power. I would rather wish
success on DVD-A, because, at least, these can be made and passed among
friends.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511
