Orions Finished

Re: Orions Finished

In article
<smcelroy2-609524.16502404052008@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>,
MiNe 109 <smcelroy2@POPaustin.rr,com > wrote:

> In article
> <18c03dd5-9591-49cd-bc5f-b4a244ff709e@l28g2000prd.googlegroups,com >,
> ScottW <ScottW48@hotmail,com > wrote:
>
> > On May 4, 11:54 am, MiNe 109 <smcelr...@POPaustin.rr,com > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <d4e6a9c0-3b32-47ef-a763-9eb8da2a7...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups,com >,
> > >
> > >  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > > > On May 4, 7:50 am, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
> > > > > "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
> > >
> > > > >news:2c20ef45-9143-4968-b3dc-10003832552f@h1g2000prh.googlegroups,com ..
> > > > >.
> > > > > On May 3, 9:19 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:>
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > The Behringer stuff has been extensively covered in the recording
> > > > > forums.
> > > > > Many like it, and many hate it. Lots of breakage. The way I see it,
> > > > > most
> > > > > "project studio" musicians are not sensitive to sound quality the way
> > > > > we
> > > > > are, so many of the loves can be discounted.
> > >
> > > > Like this one?
> > > > http :// www .audioasylum,com /cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=108244&review=1
> > >
> > > > >The hates, on the other hand,
> > > > > seem to be informed.
> > >
> > > >  Yet it's one of a few devices with a relatively new AKM DAC.
> > > > I'm still waiting for you to identify some alternatives.....
> > >
> > > If you don't want to deal with that mod guy on audioasylum,
> >
> > Mod guy?
>
> This guy:
>
> http :// www .aplhifi,com /
>
> He does Denon and Esoteric.
>
> Ya want AKM? Here's twenty-four:
>
> http :// www .aplhifi,com /DAC1-product-page.htm
>
> > > I'd check
> > > out Slim Devices.
> >
> > I have. Too much money down the tube for feature I don't want.
> > I'd go Benchmark first.

<snip>

Okay, Mr. Google reports a Norwegian cd player and the E-Mu 0404. A
closer look at the latter:

http :// pages.cs.wisc.edu/~timc/e/emu.html

Stephen

Re: Orions Finished


"ScottW" <ScottW48@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:d4e6a9c0-3b32-47ef-a763-9eb8da2a76c0@z24g2000prf.googlegroups,com ...
On May 4, 7:50 am, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
> "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> news:2c20ef45-9143-4968-b3dc-10003832552f@h1g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
> On May 3, 9:19 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:>
> "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> [snip]
>
> I can't comment on Benchmark though, haven't heard one. I'll probably
> have to buy one to find out.
> Same with the Behringer. Thats why its intriguing, the crapshoot
> expense isn't much.
>
> So I'd still be interested in gear you're aware of with these new
> DACs.
>
> > Hires masters are another story.
>
> ?
>
> ScottW
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----------------
>
> I mix and master in 24/88, and it sounds better. I don't know whether
> having
> a good DAC causes me to make better mixes, but at least, I can enjoy it
> more
> :) Also, since the mix is not normalized until it's ready to be
> downsampled, the DAC has to deal with numbers closer to the internal
> grunge.
>
> The Behringer stuff has been extensively covered in the recording forums.
> Many like it, and many hate it. Lots of breakage. The way I see it, most
> "project studio" musicians are not sensitive to sound quality the way we
> are, so many of the loves can be discounted.

Like this one?
http :// www .audioasylum,com /cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=108244&review=1

>The hates, on the other hand,
> seem to be informed.

Yet it's one of a few devices with a relatively new AKM DAC.
I'm still waiting for you to identify some alternatives.....

ScottW
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I won't be the one to know. These days, I'm a laggard. From the s/n, it's
not at the top of the AKM line. It's about 10 dB below the newest AKM, which
claims 123 dB. BTW, the Cirrus converters have innovated in the
antialiasing filter, and received some very favorable comments for it.
Basically, they moved away from the brick wall still used by AKM, going for
a much slower rolloff. Check out this table. It'll give you a few more
numbers to look for:
http :// www .cirrus,com /en/products/pro/techs/T2.html

The Cirrus converters are used in Sound Devices recorders and Audiofire
interfaces, both of which have received exceptional press.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

Re: Orions Finished

On May 4, 12:09 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
> "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> news:d4e6a9c0-3b32-47ef-a763-9eb8da2a76c0@z24g2000prf.googlegroups,com ...
> On May 4, 7:50 am, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> >news:2c20ef45-9143-4968-b3dc-10003832552f@h1g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
> > On May 3, 9:19 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:>
> > "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> > [snip]
>
> > I can't comment on Benchmark though, haven't heard one. I'll probably
> > have to buy one to find out.
> > Same with the Behringer. Thats why its intriguing, the crapshoot
> > expense isn't much.
>
> > So I'd still be interested in gear you're aware of with these new
> > DACs.
>
> > > Hires masters are another story.
>
> > ?
>
> > ScottW
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­-----------------
>
> > I mix and master in 24/88, and it sounds better. I don't know whether
> > having
> > a good DAC causes me to make better mixes, but at least, I can enjoy it
> > more
> > :) Also, since the mix is not normalized until it's ready to be
> > downsampled, the DAC has to deal with numbers closer to the internal
> > grunge.
>
> > The Behringer stuff has been extensively covered in the recording forums.
> > Many like it, and many hate it. Lots of breakage. The way I see it, most
> > "project studio" musicians are not sensitive to sound quality the way we
> > are, so many of the loves can be discounted.
>
> Like this one? http :// www .audioasylum,com /cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=108244&review=1
>
> >The hates, on the other hand,
> > seem to be informed.
>
>  Yet it's one of a few devices with a relatively new AKM DAC.
> I'm still waiting for you to identify some alternatives.....
>
> ScottW
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---------------
> I won't be the one to know. These days, I'm a laggard.

So are all the CD player mf'ers it appears.

> From the s/n, it's
> not at the top of the AKM line. It's about 10 dB below the newest AKM, which
> claims 123 dB.

Seems to be a bit of a specs war going on. Often the improvement
isn't in the product but the measurement capability. Test equip and
setups have their own noise floors. I know the NF measures of our sat
transceivers improves quite a bit in the RF anechoic chamber.

> BTW, the Cirrus converters have innovated in the
> antialiasing filter, and received some very favorable comments for it.
> Basically, they moved away from the brick wall still used by AKM, going for
> a much slower rolloff. Check out this table. It'll give you a few more
> numbers to look for: http :// www .cirrus,com /en/products/pro/techs/T2.html

thanks

>
> The Cirrus converters are used in Sound Devices recorders and Audiofire
> interfaces, both of which have received exceptional press.

Which audiofire model uses a cirrus DAC? I don't see the DAC
reference in their spec summary and none of dynamic range specs
are close to above
and the comments here on the recorder quality is a bit disturbing.

http :// www .zzounds,com /item--PRSINSPIRE

ScottW

Re: Orions Finished


"ScottW" <ScottW48@hotmail,com > wrote in message
news:df8bf32e-99e6-409d-aab4-4dcdc92bf4dd@p39g2000prm.googlegroups,com ...
On May 4, 12:09 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
> "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> news:d4e6a9c0-3b32-47ef-a763-9eb8da2a76c0@z24g2000prf.googlegroups,com ...
> On May 4, 7:50 am, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
[snip]
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---------------
> I won't be the one to know. These days, I'm a laggard.

So are all the CD player mf'ers it appears.

> From the s/n, it's
> not at the top of the AKM line. It's about 10 dB below the newest AKM,
> which
> claims 123 dB.

Seems to be a bit of a specs war going on. Often the improvement
isn't in the product but the measurement capability. Test equip and
setups have their own noise floors. I know the NF measures of our sat
transceivers improves quite a bit in the RF anechoic chamber.

> BTW, the Cirrus converters have innovated in the
> antialiasing filter, and received some very favorable comments for it.
> Basically, they moved away from the brick wall still used by AKM, going
> for
> a much slower rolloff. Check out this table. It'll give you a few more
> numbers to look for: http :// www .cirrus,com /en/products/pro/techs/T2.html

thanks

>
> The Cirrus converters are used in Sound Devices recorders and Audiofire
> interfaces, both of which have received exceptional press.

Which audiofire model uses a cirrus DAC? I don't see the DAC
reference in their spec summary and none of dynamic range specs
are close to above
and the comments here on the recorder quality is a bit disturbing.

http :// www .zzounds,com /item--PRSINSPIRE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not an AudioFire, and I don't see a DAC reference. This is
Audiofire: http :// echoaudio,com I have the Audiofire 12. Echo use AKM
converters in the bus powered units, and Cirrus where AC is available. In
this review,
http :// www .soundonsound,com /sos/oct05/articles/echoaudiofire.htm , the
Audiofire 12 beat out a Layla 1212M, which presumably uses what were then
AKM's best converters, with better s/n. I'm not pushing Cirrus, but it was
an interesting opinion.

The converters in the Audiofire 12 are actually bidirectional codecs, so you
wouldn't want to try to match part numbers.

See http :// echoaudio,com /Support/FAQ.php#8,
AK4620A - AudioFire 2, AudioFire 4

CS-4272 - AudioFire 12, AudioFire 8, Layla3G, Indigo i/o

CS-42426 - Gina3G

CS-4392 - Indigo dj

AK4528 - MiaMIDI

Re: Orions Finished

On May 4, 1:39 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
> "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> news:df8bf32e-99e6-409d-aab4-4dcdc92bf4dd@p39g2000prm.googlegroups,com ...
> On May 4, 12:09 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
>
> > "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> >news:d4e6a9c0-3b32-47ef-a763-9eb8da2a76c0@z24g2000prf.googlegroups,com ...
> > On May 4, 7:50 am, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
> [snip]
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­---------------
> > I won't be the one to know. These days, I'm a laggard.
>
>   So are all the CD player mf'ers it appears.
>
> > From the s/n, it's
> > not at the top of the AKM line. It's about 10 dB below the newest AKM,
> > which
> > claims 123 dB.
>
>  Seems to be a bit of a specs war going on. Often the improvement
> isn't in the product but the measurement capability.  Test equip and
> setups have their own noise floors.  I know the NF measures of our sat
> transceivers improves quite a bit in the RF anechoic chamber.
>
> > BTW, the Cirrus converters have innovated in the
> > antialiasing filter, and received some very favorable comments for it.
> > Basically, they moved away from the brick wall still used by AKM, going
> > for
> > a much slower rolloff. Check out this table. It'll give you a few more
> > numbers to look for: http :// www .cirrus,com /en/products/pro/techs/T2.html
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> > The Cirrus converters are used in Sound Devices recorders and Audiofire
> > interfaces, both of which have received exceptional press.
>
>  Which audiofire model uses a cirrus DAC?  I don't see the DAC
> reference in their spec summary and none of dynamic range specs
> are close to above
> and the comments here on the recorder quality is a bit disturbing.
>
> http :// www .zzounds,com /item--PRSINSPIRE
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----------------------------
> That's not an AudioFire, and I don't see a DAC reference.  

and that's not the page I meant to paste..oh well.

>This is
> Audiofire: http :// echoaudio,com  I have the Audiofire 12. Echo use  AKM
> converters in the bus powered units, and Cirrus where AC is available.  In
> this review, http :// www .soundonsound,com /sos/oct05/articles/echoaudiofire.htm, the
> Audiofire 12 beat out a Layla 1212M, which presumably uses what were then
> AKM's best converters, with better s/n. I'm not pushing Cirrus, but it was
> an interesting opinion.
>
> The converters in the Audiofire 12 are actually bidirectional codecs, so you
> wouldn't want to try to match part numbers.
>
> See http :// echoaudio,com /Support/FAQ.php#8,
> AK4620A - AudioFire 2, AudioFire 4

The DAC side of that thing isn't that great.

http :// www .akm,com /datasheets/ek4620a.pdf

100 db S/N?

I want a DAC...not ADC.

ScottW

Re: Orions Finished

On 4 Mai, 14:21, ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> On May 4, 7:50 am, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> >news:2c20ef45-9143-4968-b3dc-10003832552f@h1g2000prh.googlegroups,com ...
> > On May 3, 9:19 pm, "Soundhaspriority" <nowh...@nowhere,com > wrote:> "ScottW" <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote in message
>
> > [snip]
>
> > I can't comment on Benchmark though, haven't heard one. I'll probably
> > have to buy one to find out.
> > Same with the Behringer. Thats why its intriguing, the crapshoot
> > expense isn't much.
>
> > So I'd still be interested in gear you're aware of with these new
> > DACs.
>
> > > Hires masters are another story.
>
> >  ?
>
> > ScottW
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­­-----------------
>
> > I mix and master in 24/88, and it sounds better. I don't know whether having
> > a good DAC causes me to make better mixes, but at least, I can enjoy it more
> > :)  Also, since the mix is not normalized until it's ready to be
> > downsampled, the DAC has to deal with numbers closer to the internal grunge.
>
> > The Behringer stuff has been extensively covered in the recording forums.
> > Many like it, and many hate it. Lots of breakage. The way I see it, most
> > "project studio" musicians are not sensitive to sound quality the way we
> > are, so many of the loves can be discounted.
>
> Like this one? http :// www .audioasylum,com /cgi/m.mpl?forum=digital&n=108244&review=1
>
> >The hates, on the other hand,
> > seem to be informed.
>
>  Yet it's one of a few devices with a relatively new AKM DAC.
> I'm still waiting for you to identify some alternatives.....
>


Garbage review, no DBT.

Re: Orions Finished

"Soundhaspriority" <nowhere@nowhere,com > wrote in message
news:C-ydnaWXzbzCpIDVnZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews,com

> Scott, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I had you down in
> the DBT contingent. But you're showing the same
> preferences that I have, for perfection at all costs.

There's a major conceptual error: Perfection is unobtainable at any cost.

> Yes, I'd go for the Benchmark, but Arny and Graham would
> probably show, by methods I consider flawed,

No doubt you think the methods we'd likely use are flawed, because they
don't support your opinions.

> that the Benchmark is a waste of money in pursuit of inaudible
> perfection.

If you have sufficiently flawed sources, a DAC like the Benchmark might even
make sense.

> I don't have a DAC that good. My two "boutique DACs" are
> Musical Fidelity A3, and a Perpetual P3A. I also have a
> Sony EP9ES, which though an HT device, incorporated
> Sony's best DACs circa 2003.

There is no evidence that Sony has any sort of unique abilities when it
comes to making DACs. Indeed, they are famous for dispairing of ever making
a good DAC, and instead popularized SACD which has the potential to
essentially eliminate conventional DACs.


> My theory about CDs is that
> there isn't enough in a 16/44 recording to require an
> instrument of the caliber of the Benchmark.

That's not a theory, it is a fact.

> Hires masters are another story.

The actual weakest links are your listening room, your speakers, and your
ears.

Re: Orions Finished

In article
<72f15128-4211-44c9-850a-b96b8dbbfa46@59g2000hsb.googlegroups,com >,
ScottW <ScottW48@hotmail,com > wrote:

> I've completed my Orion project

Congrats. Ready to sell me the Quads for $500 plus a trip to Ruth's
Chris now? ;-)

Re: Orions Finished

On May 3, 4:01 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> In article
> <72f15128-4211-44c9-850a-b96b8dbbf...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups,com >,
>
>  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > I've completed my Orion project
>
> Congrats.  Ready to sell me the Quads for $500 plus a trip to Ruth's
> Chris now?  ;-)

Ya know eating steak contributes to Global Warming?

Anyway, I think I'm gonna hang on to my Quads. Might
have to keep 'em for vinyl listening :).

ScottW

Re: Orions Finished

In article
<5d8d7ef7-43f0-4ddd-9004-68d7ccce5654@n1g2000prb.googlegroups,com >,
ScottW <ScottW48@hotmail,com > wrote:

> On May 3, 4:01 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> > In article
> > <72f15128-4211-44c9-850a-b96b8dbbf...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups,com >,
> >
> >  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > > I've completed my Orion project
> >
> > Congrats.  Ready to sell me the Quads for $500 plus a trip to Ruth's
> > Chris now?  ;-)
>
> Ya know eating steak contributes to Global Warming?

Balanced by the elimination of methane gas from one cow.

>
> Anyway, I think I'm gonna hang on to my Quads. Might
> have to keep 'em for vinyl listening :).

Drats! ;-)

Re: Orions Finished



The Idiot regurgitates the Republican cud that's been in digestion for
40 years.

>Ya know eating steak contributes to Global Warming?

Hardly at all, moron. Current estimates -- based on 21st century data
and using 21st century science -- put the amount of cow methane at .003%
of the amount of CO2 produced by all the IC engines in the world.

Now illuminate us with your eckthpurteez on military matters, religion,
solar energy, and the price of tea in China.

Re: Orions Finished

On 3 Mai, 20:07, ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> On May 3, 4:01 pm, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <72f15128-4211-44c9-850a-b96b8dbbf...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups,com >,
>
> >  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > > I've completed my Orion project
>
> > Congrats.  Ready to sell me the Quads for $500 plus a trip to Ruth's
> > Chris now?  ;-)
>
> Ya know eating steak contributes to Global Warming?
>

Actually, killing off all that methane producing cattle is aq good
thing.

Re: Orions Finished

On May 3, 3:36 pm, ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:

> The first thing that struck me on initial music listening was the tone
> balance and integration.
> Peter Gabriels Mercy Street.  Seamlessly smooth with nothing out of
> place from bottom to top.  

I love Gabriel. Great song, too. I do Gabriel (Sledgehammer, Digging
in the Dirt, Solsbury Hill, in Your Eyes, Big Time, Shock the Monkey
and some others) at karaoke (and well, I'm told, to head that avenue
off). I wish I could find a woman to sing "Don't Give Up" with.
Apparently Kate Bush isn't easy for women to do.

So you can add singer to your long list of things you don't believe
about me.

Say, I have an idea that could settle lots of things. Arny could come
record me singing and you could play it through your Orions. You could
tell us if my voice sucked or if the recording did. ;-)

Phil Collins can't carry Gabriel's jockstrap. Genesis went straight to
the toilet when he left.

>  Other things are painfully apparent like the effects they add to Tori
> Amos vocals on almost all her tracks.  Only a few tracs is her voice
> natural.  Her voice isn't that bad...is it?

I saw Madeline Peyroux (sp?) live outdoors with Keb Mo a few years
ago. My girlfriend and I were both blown away by her. She started
getting radio play the following year, so I suppose this was before
she "hit the big time". If you listen to her first CD on a good
system, though, it sounds like she's singing in a reverb tank. It's
awful and overdone (IMO), but outdoors through a regular live concert
SR system (in a small amphitheater which only seats about 800) she
sounded absolutely great. You can't tell on "regular" speakers. I
haven't heard any of her other CDs, so I can't say if it's a
consistent problem.

Re: Orions Finished

On 3 Mai, 21:14, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
<artygu...@hotmail,com > wrote:

> Apparently Kate Bush isn't easy for women to do.


It must be all that hair.

Re: Orions Finished

On May 3, 10:54 pm, Clyde Slick <Mr.clydesl...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> On 3 Mai, 21:14, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
>
> <artygu...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > Apparently Kate Bush isn't easy for women to do.
>
> It must be all that hair.

You can hear the vocal refractions off it on a revealing system.