Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

On May 7, 11:18 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> In article
> <bb20b7a6-e7ca-40ab-8b00-bfc82d995...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups,com >,
>
>
>
>
>
>  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > On May 7, 7:51 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> > > In article <0r-dnboHJvO DLzVnZ2dnUVZ o-mn...@comcast,com >,
> > >  "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
> > > > "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > > >news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-DC1567.23114106052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.
> > > >net
> > > > > In article <95Cdnbu1nIKtEL3VnZ2dnUVZ qain...@comcast,com >,
> > > > > "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
> > > > >> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > > > >>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-B1C26C.07161206052008@newsclstr03.news.prodi
> > > > >>gy.
> > > > >> net
> > > > >>> In article
> > > > >>> <boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ umdn...@comcast,com >, "Arny
> > > > >>> Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
> > > > >>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in
> > > > >>>> message
> > > > >>>>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.pro
> > > > >>>>dig
> > > > >>>> y.
> > > > >>>> net
> > > > >>>>> In article
> > > > >>>>> <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ jWdn...@comcast,com >, "Arny
> > > > >>>>> Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
> > > > >>>>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in
> > > > >>>>>> message
> > > > >>>>>>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.p
> > > > >>>>>>rod
> > > > >>>>>> ig
> > > > >>>>>> y.
> > > > >>>>>> net
>
> > > > >>>>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
>
> > > > >>>>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat
> > > > >>>>>> useful at times.
>
> > > > >>>>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
> > > > >>>>>> laugh, and not much else.
>
> > > > >>>>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
>
> > > > >>>> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and
> > > > >>>> Audio.
>
> > > > >>> So only one that is in business, it seems.
>
> > > > >> Oh, its all been reduced to a popularity contest?
>
> > > > >> How high school! ;-(
>
> > > > > Arny, I spent 5 hours today in a room full of lawyers,
> > > > > testifying rather than teaching a class with finals
> > > > > coming up in two weeks.  So, I'm REALLY not in the mood
> > > > > for your sophomoric "observations".
>
> > > > As usual you can't take responsibility for your own actions, Jenn.
>
> > > Let's see... my action of truthfully stating (according to your post)
> > > that one mag that is in business uses DBTs?  Yep, I take total
> > > responsibility for that action.
>
> > > > Jenn, you're the one who made the first sophmoric observation. I just
> > > > pointed it out.
>
> > > What was wrong with it?
>
> > > > > "Popularity contest"
> > > > > (read:  market forces) is just one possibility.
>
> > > > Not being a hands-on techie Jenn,you have no idea of the work involved in
> > > > doing proper technical or subjective testing of audio gear. The market
> > > > force
> > > > that limited the popularity of DBTs is that they are a ton more work, in
> > > > a
> > > > context that is driven by advertising dollars and superficial analyses.
>
> > > And that's exactly my point, Arny.  See the next sentence:
>
> > > > > Another  would be that DBT is more expensive to carry out, and is
> > > > > cost prohibitive.
>
> > > > That you would see the additional expense of doing DBTs as a mere
> > > > possibility shows how little you understand, Jenn.
>
> > > Wake up, Arny.  Get that razor-sharp mind in gear this morning.  The
> > > possibility isn't that it would cost more; that much is obvious.
>
> > Not at all. Reviewers are paid pretty much a flat rate.
> > So where's the cost? I think it's all NRE.
>
> Time is money.

Not to S'phile they play a flat rate for reviews.
Atkinson could require ABX tests by his reviewers.
He could even facilitate them so they can be performed without
assistance. That part would require some NRE, though not much IMO.
>
>
>
> > >   The
> > > possibility is that the increased cost is why mags don't do it.
>
> > Possibility?   It's funny, anything is possible to people who
> > don't know anything.
>
> > ScottW
>
> Ah shucks.  You don't think I know anything?  Anyway, cost is clearly a
> possibility.

Reviews are flat rate.
The possibilities are being reduced.

ScottW

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

In article
<c33c86e7-814a-4377-bf47-9f5b9179c045@w1g2000prd.googlegroups,com >,
ScottW <ScottW48@hotmail,com > wrote:

> On May 7, 11:18 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> > In article
> > <bb20b7a6-e7ca-40ab-8b00-bfc82d995...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups,com >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > > On May 7, 7:51 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> > > > In article <0r-dnboHJvO_DLzVnZ2dnUVZ_o-mn...@comcast,com >,
> > > >  "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> > > > > "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > > > >news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-DC1567.23114106052008@newsclstr03.news.prod
> > > > >igy.
> > > > >net
> > > > > > In article <95Cdnbu1nIKtEL3VnZ2dnUVZ_qain...@comcast,com >,
> > > > > > "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> > > > > >> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > > > > >>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-B1C26C.07161206052008@newsclstr03.news.p
> > > > > >>rodi
> > > > > >>gy.
> > > > > >> net
> > > > > >>> In article
> > > > > >>> <boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ_umdn...@comcast,com >, "Arny
> > > > > >>> Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> > > > > >>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in
> > > > > >>>> message
> > > > > >>>>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news
> > > > > >>>>.pro
> > > > > >>>>dig
> > > > > >>>> y.
> > > > > >>>> net
> > > > > >>>>> In article
> > > > > >>>>> <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdn...@comcast,com >, "Arny
> > > > > >>>>> Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> > > > > >>>>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in
> > > > > >>>>>> message
> > > > > >>>>>>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.ne
> > > > > >>>>>>ws.p
> > > > > >>>>>>rod
> > > > > >>>>>> ig
> > > > > >>>>>> y.
> > > > > >>>>>> net
> >
> > > > > >>>>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
> >
> > > > > >>>>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat
> > > > > >>>>>> useful at times.
> >
> > > > > >>>>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
> > > > > >>>>>> laugh, and not much else.
> >
> > > > > >>>>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
> >
> > > > > >>>> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and
> > > > > >>>> Audio.
> >
> > > > > >>> So only one that is in business, it seems.
> >
> > > > > >> Oh, its all been reduced to a popularity contest?
> >
> > > > > >> How high school! ;-(
> >
> > > > > > Arny, I spent 5 hours today in a room full of lawyers,
> > > > > > testifying rather than teaching a class with finals
> > > > > > coming up in two weeks.  So, I'm REALLY not in the mood
> > > > > > for your sophomoric "observations".
> >
> > > > > As usual you can't take responsibility for your own actions, Jenn.
> >
> > > > Let's see... my action of truthfully stating (according to your post)
> > > > that one mag that is in business uses DBTs?  Yep, I take total
> > > > responsibility for that action.
> >
> > > > > Jenn, you're the one who made the first sophmoric observation. I just
> > > > > pointed it out.
> >
> > > > What was wrong with it?
> >
> > > > > > "Popularity contest"
> > > > > > (read:  market forces) is just one possibility.
> >
> > > > > Not being a hands-on techie Jenn,you have no idea of the work
> > > > > involved in
> > > > > doing proper technical or subjective testing of audio gear. The
> > > > > market
> > > > > force
> > > > > that limited the popularity of DBTs is that they are a ton more work,
> > > > > in
> > > > > a
> > > > > context that is driven by advertising dollars and superficial
> > > > > analyses.
> >
> > > > And that's exactly my point, Arny.  See the next sentence:
> >
> > > > > > Another  would be that DBT is more expensive to carry out, and is
> > > > > > cost prohibitive.
> >
> > > > > That you would see the additional expense of doing DBTs as a mere
> > > > > possibility shows how little you understand, Jenn.
> >
> > > > Wake up, Arny.  Get that razor-sharp mind in gear this morning.  The
> > > > possibility isn't that it would cost more; that much is obvious.
> >
> > > Not at all. Reviewers are paid pretty much a flat rate.
> > > So where's the cost? I think it's all NRE.
> >
> > Time is money.
>
> Not to S'phile they play a flat rate for reviews.
> Atkinson could require ABX tests by his reviewers.
> He could even facilitate them so they can be performed without
> assistance. That part would require some NRE, though not much IMO.
> >
> >
> >
> > > >   The
> > > > possibility is that the increased cost is why mags don't do it.
> >
> > > Possibility?   It's funny, anything is possible to people who
> > > don't know anything.
> >
> > > ScottW
> >
> > Ah shucks.  You don't think I know anything?  Anyway, cost is clearly a
> > possibility.
>
> Reviews are flat rate.
> The possibilities are being reduced.
>
> ScottW

I'm surprised that you don't get this concept. How do you think that
people who write reviews make a living (other than corruption, of
course)? They:
1. Write more reviews, or,
2. They work at some other job

Either way, I repeat, time is money.

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

On May 7, 5:00 pm, ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> On May 7, 11:18 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:

> > In article
> > <bb20b7a6-e7ca-40ab-8b00-bfc82d995...@u12g2000prd.googlegroups,com >,
>
> >  ScottW <Scott...@hotmail,com > wrote:
> > > On May 7, 7:51 am, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:

> > > Not at all. Reviewers are paid pretty much a flat rate.
> > > So where's the cost? I think it's all NRE.
>
> > Time is money.
>
> Not to S'phile they play a flat rate for reviews.
> Atkinson could require ABX tests by his reviewers.

I suppose he could. Here's an idea, 2pid: you and GOIA and all the DBT
advocates should subscribe to SP until you constitute a large majority
of the subscribers. Then start a campaign insisting upon DBTs.

> He could even facilitate them so they can be performed without
> assistance.  That part would require some NRE, though not much IMO.

I suppose if the outcry from SP's subscribers was loud enough, it
might even make sense.

Wasn't there a magazine that did this a few years ago (The Audio
Critic, IIRC)? Where can I buy a copy today? Did you subscribe? If no,
why not?

> > > >   The
> > > > possibility is that the increased cost is why mags don't do it.
>
> > > Possibility?   It's funny, anything is possible to people who
> > > don't know anything.

> > Ah shucks.  You don't think I know anything?  Anyway, cost is clearly a
> > possibility.
>
>  Reviews are flat rate.

2pid, I think you should apply for a job as a reviewer at Stereophile.
JA has a keen sense of humor, so maybe he'd even go for it. Maybe you
could do a monthly column. I'd humbly submit "Kiddie's Korner" as it's
name.

Anyway, let's presume that you're being serious for just one moment
and look at some of the logical flaws you have presented:

1. DBTs, nor any other test of its type, are not done to a time
standard. It is often said that to do one properly the subject has to
have unlimited time to make a selection. It is also often said that
some subtle differences are not immediately apparent.

2. You assume that a reviewer would spend the time necessary to
perform a proper DBT when being paid upon a fixed rate basis. Every
hour they spent testing would reduce their compensation accordingly.
There would be no benefit to the reviewer to take longer amounts of
time. This could skew the results, rendering the tests invalid.

3. The fixed rate would need to be increased regardless since the
testing would take more time than reviews currently do and they would
require more people to do them since they cannot be self-proctored.
Further, you would either be listening in an environment that was not
your own, or you have now added even more expense to the test.
Therefore, your "reduced possibility" of cost not being a factor is
now reintroduced.

> The possibilities are being reduced.

The possibilities of you ever proving yourself to be smart have been
nonexistant since I saw your first post, and probably nonexistant far
earlier than that.

The answer, of course, is that if you want to do DBTs you should by
all means do them. LOL!

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

On 7 Mai, 02:11, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> In article <95Cdnbu1nIKtEL3VnZ2dnUVZ qain...@comcast,com >,
>  "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> >news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-B1C26C.07161206052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
> > > In article <boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ umdn...@comcast,com >,
> > > "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
> > >> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > >>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.
> > >> net
> > >>> In article
> > >>> <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ jWdn...@comcast,com >, "Arny
> > >>> Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
>
> > >>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in
> > >>>> message
> > >>>>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.prodig
> > >>>> y.
> > >>>> net
>
> > >>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
>
> > >>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful
> > >>>> at times.
>
> > >>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
> > >>>> laugh, and not much else.
>
> > >>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
>
> > >> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and
> > >> Audio.
>
> > > So only one that is in business, it seems.
>
> > Oh, its all been reduced to a popularity contest?
>
> > How high school! ;-(
>
> Arny, I spent 5 hours today in a room full of lawyers,


Oh no, not another libel suit!!

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

In article
<f14ffddc-48e0-40a7-aeec-0fe2d758b8ed@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups,com >,
Clyde Slick <Mr.clydeslick@yahoo,com > wrote:

> On 7 Mai, 02:11, Jenn <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote:
> > In article <95Cdnbu1nIKtEL3VnZ2dnUVZ_qain...@comcast,com >,
> >  "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > >news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-B1C26C.07161206052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.
> > >net
> > > > In article <boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ_umdn...@comcast,com >,
> > > > "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> > > >> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in message
> > > >>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.prodi
> > > >>gy.
> > > >> net
> > > >>> In article
> > > >>> <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdn...@comcast,com >, "Arny
> > > >>> Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> >
> > > >>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVET...@mac,com > wrote in
> > > >>>> message
> > > >>>>news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.pro
> > > >>>>dig
> > > >>>> y.
> > > >>>> net
> >
> > > >>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
> >
> > > >>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful
> > > >>>> at times.
> >
> > > >>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
> > > >>>> laugh, and not much else.
> >
> > > >>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
> >
> > > >> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and
> > > >> Audio.
> >
> > > > So only one that is in business, it seems.
> >
> > > Oh, its all been reduced to a popularity contest?
> >
> > > How high school! ;-(
> >
> > Arny, I spent 5 hours today in a room full of lawyers,
>
>
> Oh no, not another libel suit!!

lol

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?


"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
news:boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>> In article <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast,com >,
>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
>>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>>
>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
>>>
>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful
>>> at times.
>>>
>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
>>> laugh, and not much else.
>>
>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
>
> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and Audio.

I am sorry, but I read Stereo Review and Audio every issue every year from
the early '60's onward and I don't ever recall them using DBT's for
testing/reviews. They may have run a feature on it from time to time, but
that is hardly the same thing.

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

"Harry Lavo" <hlavo@comcast,net > wrote in message
news:B_6dnci8spBHBL3VnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@comcast,com
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
> news:boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>> In article
>>> <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast,com >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
>>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>>>
>>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
>>>>
>>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful
>>>> at times.
>>>>
>>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
>>>> laugh, and not much else.
>>>
>>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?

>> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and
>> Audio.

> I am sorry, but I read Stereo Review and Audio every
> issue every year from the early '60's onward and I don't
> ever recall them using DBT's for testing/reviews.

Then your memory is just as selective as I thought, Harry.

Check your Audio Magazine index for equipment tests that were co-authored by
Clark and Greenhill.

> They may have run a feature on it from time to time, but that
> is hardly the same thing.

Besides being flat out wrong Harry, you also seem to be willing to split any
hair to avoid giving DBT tests the credit they are due. Sure, most of the
equipment tests in SR that were based on DBTs were feature articles, but
that just shows the editorial staff's appropriately high opinion of the
technology.

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

On Tue, 6 May 2008 13:47:34 -0400, Harry Lavo <hlavo@comcast,net > wrote:

>"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
>news:boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>> In article <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast,com >,
>>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
>>>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>>>
>>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
>>>>
>>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful
>>>> at times.
>>>>
>>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
>>>> laugh, and not much else.
>>>
>>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
>>
>> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and Audio.

>I am sorry, but I read Stereo Review and Audio every issue every year from
>the early '60's onward and I don't ever recall them using DBT's for
>testing/reviews. They may have run a feature on it from time to time, but
>that is hardly the same thing.

agreed. They used DBT a few times for testing speaker wire and signal cables and for nothing else.

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

"AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX,com > wrote in message
news:slrng21c32.d9u.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox,net
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 13:47:34 -0400, Harry Lavo
> <hlavo@comcast,net > wrote:
>
>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
>> news:boOdnSumW4vZ3L3VnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
>>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-9BAD2B.16560205052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>>> In article
>>>> <McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast,com >, "Arny
>>>> Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>> news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
>>>>>
>>>>>> If not, are they all worthless?
>>>>>
>>>>> The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful
>>>>> at times.
>>>>>
>>>>> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a
>>>>> laugh, and not much else.
>>>>
>>>> Do ANY audio magazines use DBTs?
>>>
>>> Sound and Vision, and before that Stereo Review and
>>> Audio.
>
>> I am sorry, but I read Stereo Review and Audio every
>> issue every year from the early '60's onward and I don't
>> ever recall them using DBT's for testing/reviews. They
>> may have run a feature on it from time to time, but that
>> is hardly the same thing.
>
> agreed. They used DBT a few times for testing speaker
> wire and signal cables and for nothing else.

Well AZ, you get to be wrong, as well.

Clark and Greenhil co-authored a number of Audio equipment tests that
included the results of DBT listening tests.

The SR feature articles that Harry wants to disrespect included separate
articles about power amplfiers and CD players.

Krooger kan't help himself



Harry Lavo said:

>I am sorry, but I read Stereo Review and Audio every issue every year from
>the early '60's onward and I don't ever recall them using DBT's for
>testing/reviews. They may have run a feature on it from time to time, but
>that is hardly the same thing.

S&V's worshipping of "DBTs" is as hollow as the that of the 'borgs:
Writers and editors drop the term reverentially from time to time,
casting it as some sort of panacea for finding "trVth". But they can't
be bothered to learn enough about them in order to set them up on a
regular basis.

One thing Mister Krooger is unable to do is put himself in the position
of a reviewer. They are individuals who get paid by the word, not by the
hour. Where would the money come from to schlep them to a "laboratory"
(i.e. a torture chamber) with all necessary controls in place to conduct
"tests" with some semblance of scientific accuracy?

What Krooger refuses to admit is that Normals do NOT WANT to participate
in blinding rituals. They don't relish the punishment, the abnegation of
their souls. On top of that, DBTs in some bizarre laboratory setting
have no meaning for Normals. Their only value is as an R&D tool. A
reviewer can describe what he hears in relation to what he's accustomed
to experiencing in his accustomed listening area. This is exactly
parallel to what every Normal audiophile does. But all that is beyond
Krooger's komprehension because, presumably, he suffered brain damage
during his indoctrination into the aBxism religion.

Re: Krooger kan't help himself

On May 6, 2:38 pm, George M. Middius <cmndr geo...@comcast,net > wrote:

> What Krooger refuses to admit is that Normals do NOT WANT to participate
> in blinding rituals. They don't relish the punishment, the abnegation of
> their souls. On top of that, DBTs in some bizarre laboratory setting
> have no meaning for Normals. Their only value is as an R&D tool. A
> reviewer can describe what he hears in relation to what he's accustomed
> to experiencing in his accustomed listening area. This is exactly
> parallel to what every Normal audiophile does. But all that is beyond
> Krooger's komprehension because, presumably, he suffered brain damage
> during his indoctrination into the aBxism religion.

GOIA says that not all things sound the same. But if somebody buys
something without doing a DBT first because they like the sound better
they are flawed, or the equipment is.

Now even if somebody did a DBT and and bought something because they
liked the sound better, they would be flawed because, as we all know,
amps, CD players, etc. all sound the same unless "broken".

So no matter what you do, you'd better buy something that sounds the
same from the secret "approved, non-broken" list. If you don't do a
DBT first, you'd better be a proponent of them, like 2pid is, without
having ever done one.

That's the only way to be "blessed" by GOIA.

Re: Krooger kan't help himself

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" <artyguy04@hotmail,com >
wrote in message
news:8f1c23b1-8e1e-4f3b-a655-d60bc04bcea4@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups,com

> But if somebody buys something without doing a DBT first because
> they like the sound better they are flawed, or the
> equipment is.

Wrong again, SHITR-breath.

Your first mistake is that you presume that sound quality is the only reason
why people choose a particular piece of gear.

Your second mistake is your presumption that buying new equipment is the
only way to get better sound.


> Now even if somebody did a DBT and and bought something
> because they liked the sound better, they would be flawed
> because, as we all know, amps, CD players, etc. all sound
> the same unless "broken".

Your third mistake is that presuming that there are no components other than
amps and CD players.

Re: Krooger kan't help himself

On May 7, 6:27 am, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:
> "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" <artygu...@hotmail,com >
> wrote in messagenews:8f1c23b1-8e1e-4f3b-a655-d60bc04bcea4@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups,com
>
> > But if  somebody buys something without doing a DBT first because
> > they like the sound better they are flawed, or the
> > equipment is.
>
> Wrong again, SHITR-breath.

Oh goody. What insanity will confront us this morning?

Let's see!

> Your first mistake is that you presume that sound quality is the only reason
> why people choose a particular piece of gear.

Not at all, Insane One.

But as we all know, buying something for other reasons, like pride of
ownership, looks, or whatever, are not valid when there is a $199
piece of gear that will, according to you, "adequately get the job
done".

And god forbid someone enjoy a "flawed" technology like vinyl. LOL!

> Your second mistake is your presumption that buying new equipment is the
> only way to get better sound.

There's no presumption here at all. We could be talking brand-new,
first-time buyers trying to get "sound", not necessarily "better"
sound.

The "presumption" is only found between your ears.

> > Now even if somebody did a DBT and and bought something
> > because they liked the sound better, they would be flawed
> > because, as we all know, amps, CD players, etc. all sound
> > the same unless "broken".
>
> Your third mistake is that presuming that there are no components other than
> amps and CD players.

I suggest you look up the word "etc."

So tell me: besides electro-mechanical devices such as turntables and
cartridges and speakers, what stereo gear can sound different without
being "broken" or "improperly designed" or "flawed technology"?

You presume a lot of presumptions, GOIA. I think it's time for an
overhaul. ;-)

And you sure make a lot of mistakes for someone who accuses others of
making mistakes.

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?


"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
news:McOdnWkS8dy4A4LVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@comcast,com ...
: "Jenn" <jennconductsREMOVETHIS@mac,com > wrote in message
:
news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-D546AB.16115505052008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy,net
:
: > If not, are they all worthless?
:
: The technical tests in Stereophile are somewhat useful at
times.
:
: But as a rule, Any Krueger is good for a laugh and snot
throwing but not much
: else.
:
Hi Arny, I have taken the liberty to correct your statement
above.

BTW formulated my apology yet? How's the hang over? (as if
I really care)

Here's some help to start you off:

http :// dictionary.reference,com /search?r=2&q=apology

"1. a written or spoken expression of one's regret,
remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or
wronged another "


TT (the real one)

Re: Does ANY audio mag use DBT?

On May 5, 6:52 pm, "Arny Krueger" <ar...@hotpop,com > wrote:

> But as a rule, the high end ragazines are good for a laugh, and not much
> else.

Whose "rule"?