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Anyone here low shelf their bass tracks?
Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
55..?
anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
55..?
> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom
> to satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about
> 50hz? 55..?
Not crazy talk, and rolling off lows is very common on many tracks. Maybe
not so much on bass and kick drum, but often on everything else. There are
so many bass types, and sounds to aim for, that rolling off lows on the bass
is not uncommon either. The key is being able to hear what you're doing
accurately! Which means you need good monitors in a well-treated room, not
accidental monitoring as you mentioned. :->)
--Ethan
> to satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about
> 50hz? 55..?
Not crazy talk, and rolling off lows is very common on many tracks. Maybe
not so much on bass and kick drum, but often on everything else. There are
so many bass types, and sounds to aim for, that rolling off lows on the bass
is not uncommon either. The key is being able to hear what you're doing
accurately! Which means you need good monitors in a well-treated room, not
accidental monitoring as you mentioned. :->)
--Ethan
Sometime a bass track just has too much down there, and cutting a bit
can make it manageable and not un-bassy. Generally, though, I find
that notching works for me better on this. Find a freq, drop 4 or 8
db, widen and narrow the Q. Maybe stick two narrow dips instead of a
shelf.
can make it manageable and not un-bassy. Generally, though, I find
that notching works for me better on this. Find a freq, drop 4 or 8
db, widen and narrow the Q. Maybe stick two narrow dips instead of a
shelf.
"JY" <no@thanks . com > wrote in message news:fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org...
> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>
> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
Always.... or for at least a bit over 30 years. ;-)
> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
> 55..?
I don't see why not.
Try it and see. Losing that LF junk usually allows more gain on the instrument,
offsetting the loss of unusable, sub-sonic (so-to-speak) trash. Depending on the
style of music and the density of the mix, I often roll off a lot higher than that, and
*much* higher on many other instruments.
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
Morgan Audio Media Service
* w w w .m-a-m-s DOT com
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_____________________________
* w w w .januarysound . com
In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>
>I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>
>Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>55..?
Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>
>I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>
>Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>55..?
Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>>
>> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>>
>> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>> 55..?
>
> Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
> you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
> reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
> --scott
And if some higher harmonics are there in the right proportion, the
ear/brain fills in the fundamental.
Cheers
ian
> In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>>
>> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>>
>> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>> 55..?
>
> Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
> you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
> reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
> --scott
And if some higher harmonics are there in the right proportion, the
ear/brain fills in the fundamental.
Cheers
ian
Ian Thompson-Bell <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>>> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>>> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>>> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>>>
>>> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>>> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>>> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>>> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>>>
>>> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>>> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>>> 55..?
>>
>> Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
>> you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
>> reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
>
>And if some higher harmonics are there in the right proportion, the
>ear/brain fills in the fundamental.
Right, and this is often the problem... folks will take a bass DI and it
will have plenty of the fundamental but not much in the way of harmonics to
add definition.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>>> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>>> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>>> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>>>
>>> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>>> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>>> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>>> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>>>
>>> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>>> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>>> 55..?
>>
>> Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
>> you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
>> reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
>
>And if some higher harmonics are there in the right proportion, the
>ear/brain fills in the fundamental.
Right, and this is often the problem... folks will take a bass DI and it
will have plenty of the fundamental but not much in the way of harmonics to
add definition.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Ian Thompson-Bell <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>>>> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>>>> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>>>> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>>>>
>>>> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>>>> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>>>> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>>>> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>>>>
>>>> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>>>> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>>>> 55..?
>>> Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
>>> you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
>>> reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
>> And if some higher harmonics are there in the right proportion, the
>> ear/brain fills in the fundamental.
>
> Right, and this is often the problem... folks will take a bass DI and it
> will have plenty of the fundamental but not much in the way of harmonics to
> add definition.
> --scott
I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
Cheers
Ian
> Ian Thompson-Bell <ruffrecords@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> In article <fv4lmd$723$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>>>> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
>>>> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
>>>> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is different).
>>>>
>>>> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played it
>>>> on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm trying to
>>>> fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling I'll regret
>>>> it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>>>>
>>>> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom to
>>>> satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about 50hz?
>>>> 55..?
>>> Depends on the music. But if you look at most commercial rock recordings
>>> you will find very little below 75 Hz, really. The average listener can't
>>> reproduce real bass, so the producers don't give it to them.
>> And if some higher harmonics are there in the right proportion, the
>> ear/brain fills in the fundamental.
>
> Right, and this is often the problem... folks will take a bass DI and it
> will have plenty of the fundamental but not much in the way of harmonics to
> add definition.
> --scott
I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
Cheers
Ian
> I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
I have that all the time, specially with:
- poor quality elements on the bass
- old strings on the bass
- tone control on the bass turned all the way down
- poor bass player
Replace either to fix it.
I have that all the time, specially with:
- poor quality elements on the bass
- old strings on the bass
- tone control on the bass turned all the way down
- poor bass player
Replace either to fix it.
Badmuts wrote:
>> I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
>
> I have that all the time, specially with:
> - poor quality elements on the bass
> - old strings on the bass
> - tone control on the bass turned all the way down
> - poor bass player
>
> Replace either to fix it.
>
>
Indeed, I had all those problems too but they are not a problem with DI
bas per se. I had many more problems trying to get a decent boom free
recording from a mic'd bass cab.
Cheers
Ian
>> I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
>
> I have that all the time, specially with:
> - poor quality elements on the bass
> - old strings on the bass
> - tone control on the bass turned all the way down
> - poor bass player
>
> Replace either to fix it.
>
>
Indeed, I had all those problems too but they are not a problem with DI
bas per se. I had many more problems trying to get a decent boom free
recording from a mic'd bass cab.
Cheers
Ian
Badmuts wrote:
>> I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
>
> I have that all the time, specially with:
> - poor quality elements on the bass
> - old strings on the bass
> - tone control on the bass turned all the way down
> - poor bass player
>
> Replace either to fix it.
>
>
Most of these problems are fixable at the source and all of them would
still be present if you miked a speaker cabinet.
>> I *never* had that problem with DI bass.
>
> I have that all the time, specially with:
> - poor quality elements on the bass
> - old strings on the bass
> - tone control on the bass turned all the way down
> - poor bass player
>
> Replace either to fix it.
>
>
Most of these problems are fixable at the source and all of them would
still be present if you miked a speaker cabinet.
"JY" <no@thanks . com > wrote:
> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is
> different).
>
> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played
> it on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm
> trying to fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling
> I'll regret it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>
> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom
> to satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about
> 50hz? 55..?
Are you confusing shelving EQ with High Pass filtering? Sometimes
combining the two will get a great bass sound without unwanted LF garbage
... A/C, etc. I like to use a UREI LA-3A on bass, to keep the foundation
in place. It must be *after* the filter and EQ so it won't be activated
by sounds that are altered or removed.
Regarding the low cut frequency ... use your ears. Dial it up until you
hear the bite and then back it off a little.
--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
> Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does
> anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would the
> place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is
> different).
>
> I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played
> it on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm
> trying to fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling
> I'll regret it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>
> Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough bottom
> to satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about
> 50hz? 55..?
Are you confusing shelving EQ with High Pass filtering? Sometimes
combining the two will get a great bass sound without unwanted LF garbage
... A/C, etc. I like to use a UREI LA-3A on bass, to keep the foundation
in place. It must be *after* the filter and EQ so it won't be activated
by sounds that are altered or removed.
Regarding the low cut frequency ... use your ears. Dial it up until you
hear the bite and then back it off a little.
--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
On Apr 28, 11:59 am, Roy W. Rising <rwrising@dsl[omit]extreme . com >
wrote:
> "JY" <n...@thanks . com > wrote:
> > Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does=
> > anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would th=
e
> > place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is
> > different).
>
> > I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played
> > it on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm
> > trying to fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling=
> > I'll regret it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>
> > Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough botto=
m
> > to satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about
> > 50hz? 55..?
>
> Are you confusing shelving EQ with High Pass filtering? Sometimes
> combining the two will get a great bass sound without unwanted LF garbage
> ... A/C, etc. I like to use a UREI LA-3A on bass, to keep the foundatio=
n
> in place. It must be *after* the filter and EQ so it won't be activated=
> by sounds that are altered or removed.
>
> Regarding the low cut frequency ... use your ears. Dial it up until you=
> hear the bite and then back it off a little.
>
> --
> ~
> ~ Roy
> "If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
I'm not a pro and I know many of the pros will disagree with
this...but...
I like to use a spectum analyzer to see what is going on...
you can see what is the lowest fundamental freq and cut below that, or
see the grundge you want to get rid of and notch it out..
many DAWs have a built in spectrum analyzer...
But I also agree good monitors are required to hear it as well..
Mark
wrote:
> "JY" <n...@thanks . com > wrote:
> > Rookie question, if anyone has a minute to share their experience : Does=
> > anyone here use a low shelf on the bass track? And if so, where would th=
e
> > place it (generally speaking... I understand that each song is
> > different).
>
> > I'm hearing a rumble in a track that only became apparent when I played
> > it on a specific pair of speakers (completely random/chance), and I'm
> > trying to fix it while avoiding the low cut... because I get the feeling=
> > I'll regret it later. This *is* the bass guitar we're talking about.
>
> > Is it safe to cut everything beneath 45hz and still produce enough botto=
m
> > to satisfy most playback systems? Or is that just crazy talk? How about
> > 50hz? 55..?
>
> Are you confusing shelving EQ with High Pass filtering? Sometimes
> combining the two will get a great bass sound without unwanted LF garbage
> ... A/C, etc. I like to use a UREI LA-3A on bass, to keep the foundatio=
n
> in place. It must be *after* the filter and EQ so it won't be activated=
> by sounds that are altered or removed.
>
> Regarding the low cut frequency ... use your ears. Dial it up until you=
> hear the bite and then back it off a little.
>
> --
> ~
> ~ Roy
> "If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
I'm not a pro and I know many of the pros will disagree with
this...but...
I like to use a spectum analyzer to see what is going on...
you can see what is the lowest fundamental freq and cut below that, or
see the grundge you want to get rid of and notch it out..
many DAWs have a built in spectrum analyzer...
But I also agree good monitors are required to hear it as well..
Mark
Mark <makolber@yahoo . com > wrote:
> I'm not a pro and I know many of the pros will disagree with
> this...but...
>
> I like to use a spectum analyzer to see what is going on...
>
> you can see what is the lowest fundamental freq and cut below that, or
> see the grundge you want to get rid of and notch it out..
>
> many DAWs have a built in spectrum analyzer...
>
> But I also agree good monitors are required to hear it as well..
If you can't hear what's going on, looking at it doesnt' help, because
you still don't know what it sounds like. Decent monitoring is very
helpful.
--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
> I'm not a pro and I know many of the pros will disagree with
> this...but...
>
> I like to use a spectum analyzer to see what is going on...
>
> you can see what is the lowest fundamental freq and cut below that, or
> see the grundge you want to get rid of and notch it out..
>
> many DAWs have a built in spectrum analyzer...
>
> But I also agree good monitors are required to hear it as well..
If you can't hear what's going on, looking at it doesnt' help, because
you still don't know what it sounds like. Decent monitoring is very
helpful.
--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
"hank alrich" <walkinay@nv . net > wrote in message news:1ig3si4.1icjx7cvihqb2N%walkinay@nv . net ...
> Mark <makolber@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
> > I'm not a pro and I know many of the pros will disagree with
> > this...but...
> >
> > I like to use a spectum analyzer to see what is going on...
> >
> > you can see what is the lowest fundamental freq and cut below that, or
> > see the grundge you want to get rid of and notch it out..
> >
> > many DAWs have a built in spectrum analyzer...
> >
> > But I also agree good monitors are required to hear it as well..
>
> If you can't hear what's going on, looking at it doesnt' help, because
> you still don't know what it sounds like. Decent monitoring is very
> helpful.
Hey smarty-pants.... any time I go to a strange environment I take my
own near-fields and an old BSR spectrum analyzer. I may not get a
second chance. ;-)
So.... how was the vacation ??
DM
