Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

There's a mono drum loop I'm particularly fond of that I created years ago.
I'd like to recycle it in a modern production, only that the mono-ness of it
is somewhat dreary.

Adding room or hard-panning two copies with a slight nudge to one of them
will make it wider, but then the bottom muddies everything up (we don't want
that kick to be wide, now do we).

I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband stereo
field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at an
arc between two frequency points.

(Wow, I never thought I'd be asking questions like this one when I started
mixing not too long ago.)

The closest I've come to simulating this is adding a very short-trailed room
reverb with high and low shelves applied to the wet area.

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

In article <fvaert$7u2$1@aioe.org>, JY <no@thanks . com > wrote:
>There's a mono drum loop I'm particularly fond of that I created years ago.
>I'd like to recycle it in a modern production, only that the mono-ness of it
>is somewhat dreary.
>
>Adding room or hard-panning two copies with a slight nudge to one of them
>will make it wider, but then the bottom muddies everything up (we don't want
>that kick to be wide, now do we).
>
>I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband stereo
>field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at an
>arc between two frequency points.

Sure. You equalize the two channels differently.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix . com > wrote in message
news:fvafb9$qo2$1@panix2.panix . com ...
>
>>I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband stereo
>>field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at
>>an
>>arc between two frequency points.
>
> Sure. You equalize the two channels differently.

You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one of
the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?

That's crazy talk. You're a witch.

(People really do this?)

-mjs

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:58:00 -0400, JY wrote:

>
> You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one
> of the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?
>
> That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
>
> (People really do this?)

They do. One of the techniques for making fake stereo out of a mono
recording is based on this, actually splitting the sound into lots of
narrow frequency bands panned alternately right and left.

--
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk -+- * w w w .treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

Anahata <anahata@treewind.co.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:58:00 -0400, JY wrote:
>
> >
> > You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one
> > of the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?
> >
> > That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
> >
> > (People really do this?)
>
> They do. One of the techniques for making fake stereo out of a mono
> recording is based on this, actually splitting the sound into lots of
> narrow frequency bands panned alternately right and left.

Don't lots of even cheap digital reverbs offer some "stereoizational"
facility?

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:44:31 -0700, hank alrich wrote:

> Anahata <anahata@treewind.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> One of the techniques for making fake stereo out of a mono
>> recording is based on this, actually splitting the sound into lots of
>> narrow frequency bands panned alternately right and left.
>
> Don't lots of even cheap digital reverbs offer some "stereoizational"
> facility?

Yes, but they do that by applying slightly different reverb parameters to
two copies of the original and feeding them to left and right. IOW,
instead of different EQ they apply different combinations of delay.

However the OP's question seemed to be about something frequency
selective, though in retrospect I'm not sure if there was a good reason
for specifying it that way.
--
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk -+- * w w w .treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

On Apr 30, 8:07 pm, Anahata <anah...@treewind.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:58:00 -0400, JY wrote:
>
> > You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one
> > of the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?
>
> > That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
>
> > (People really do this?)
>
> They do. One of the techniques for making fake stereo out of a mono
> recording is based on this, actually splitting the sound into lots of
> narrow frequency bands panned alternately right and left.
>
> --
> Anahata
> anah...@treewind.co.uk -+- * w w w .treewind.co.uk
> Home: 01638 720444         Mob: 07976 263827

...and if you are interested in a plug-in that does this for you,
check out Roger Nichols SPL-izer:

* w w w .rndigital.org/splizer.html

David

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

JY wrote:

> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix . com > wrote in message
> news:fvafb9$qo2$1@panix2.panix . com ...
> >
> >>I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband stereo
> >>field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at
> >>an
> >>arc between two frequency points.
> >
> > Sure. You equalize the two channels differently.
>
> You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one of
> the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?
>
> That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
>
> (People really do this?)
>
> -mjs

Yes people do this.The technique is old as the hills.
A quick google came up with this example:

< * lists.radiolists . net /pipermail/broadcast/2005-May/008756.html >


Later...

Ron Capik
--

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

"Ron Capik" <r.capik@worldnet.att . net > wrote in message
news:4818C662.F281B856@worldnet.att . net ...
> JY wrote:
>
>> You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one
>> of
>> the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?
>>
>> That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
>>
>> (People really do this?)
>>
>> -mjs
>
> Yes people do this.The technique is old as the hills.
> A quick google came up with this example:
>
> < * lists.radiolists . net /pipermail/broadcast/2005-May/008756.html >

Very interesting. Thanks, guys.

-mjs

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix . com > wrote in message
>news:fvafb9$qo2$1@panix2.panix . com ...
>>
>>>I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband stereo
>>>field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at
>>>an
>>>arc between two frequency points.
>>
>> Sure. You equalize the two channels differently.
>
>You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one of
>the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?

Yes, but watch out, because Columbia Records has a patent on the process.
It's probably expired by now.

>That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
>
>(People really do this?)

Go to the Orban web site and download the manual for their fake stereo
box. It explains how the system works; it's basically a comb filter.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

"JY" <no@thanks . com > wrote in message news:fvafhg$ajt$1@aioe.org...
> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix . com > wrote in message
> news:fvafb9$qo2$1@panix2.panix . com ...
> >
> >>I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband
stereo
> >>field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at
> >>an
> >>arc between two frequency points.
> >
> > Sure. You equalize the two channels differently.
>
> You mean copy exact duplicates side-by-side and modifying the EQ of one of
> the sides within the range of freq. I'd like to hear expanded?
>
> That's crazy talk. You're a witch.
>
> (People really do this?)

Yes; in fact, that was the basic principle of artifical stereo enhancement
in the 1950s-1960s.

One time a radio chief engineer of my acquaintance, during a simulcast of
the Ring cycle with our PBS station, was in a pickle because the phone
company had mistakenly taken out the equalized lines between the stations.
He took a transistor radio with a TV band, tuned into our broadcast (mono)
signal, and fed the output into both channels of an Orban equalizer, He
tweaked the EQs differently on the two channels, and fed that into his air
board. Result: not a single complaint about the audio.

Of course, he was probably lucky that the broadcast was up against the World
Series, and our team was in it. Both listeners probably had a great time.

Peace,
Paul

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

> One time a radio chief engineer of my acquaintance, during a simulcast
> of the Ring cycle with our PBS station, was in a pickle because the phone
> company had mistakenly taken out the equalized lines between the stations.
> He took a transistor radio with a TV band, tuned into our broadcast (mono)
> signal, and fed the output into both channels of an Orban equalizer, He
> tweaked the EQs differently on the two channels, and fed that into his air
> board. Result: not a single complaint about the audio.

This happened to me when recording of a small Philadelphia orchestra. (I
recorded their rehearsals every Friday night.)

One of my Pearl mics blew out (I fixed it later -- blown transistor) and was
forced to record in mono. I used my Orban 245E to create a vague spread of
sound -- and no one commented.

The average listener is not likely to notice. But if you're paying
attention -- and especially if you've heard comb-filter pseudo-stereo -- you
know that Something Is Not Quite Right.

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

JY wrote:
> There's a mono drum loop I'm particularly fond of that I created years ago.
> I'd like to recycle it in a modern production, only that the mono-ness of it
> is somewhat dreary.
>
> Adding room or hard-panning two copies with a slight nudge to one of them
> will make it wider, but then the bottom muddies everything up (we don't want
> that kick to be wide, now do we).
>
> I was therefore wondering if there was such a thing as a multiband stereo
> field expander, so that I can make a mono clip sound stereo, but only at an
> arc between two frequency points.
>
> (Wow, I never thought I'd be asking questions like this one when I started
> mixing not too long ago.)
>
> The closest I've come to simulating this is adding a very short-trailed room
> reverb with high and low shelves applied to the wet area.
>
>


The Eventide Eclipse has a pre-set that does this, as I believe, do
other Eventide products.

Cheers

ian

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

Orban and other companies made stereo "synthesizers" that used comb filters
to produce such an effect. I assume it's available from some plug-ins.

Re: Is there such a thing as a Multiband Stereo Field Expander?

On Apr 30, 5:11 pm, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast . net >
wrote:
> Orban and other companies made stereo "synthesizers" that used comb filters
> to produce such an effect. I assume it's available from some plug-ins.

Yup. If you're not concerned about CPU cycles, it's also possible to
do this using a FFT filtering plug-in. Details here:
* support.magix . net /boards/samplitude//index.php?showtopic=15847

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording