Add group to favorites
Back to post list
Send new message to group Search:
Post Subject:
What you hear ain't what you get....
Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
you get".
What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
would inflate the bass all the time.....
FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
you get".
What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
would inflate the bass all the time.....
FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
On May 1, 9:15 am, GarageGuitar <charlesle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT?
use a spectrum analyzer and monitor
look/listen to a bunch of commercial recordings to calibrate your eye /
ear
then check your mixes on the same system
I have found that commercial recordigns that I consider sound good,
look pretty flat on the spectrum analyzer in the bass and mid range.
I try to make my mixes look/sound the same as that.
Seems to work well for me.
I can also see any very high or low frequency noise that I may not be
able to hear.
Mark
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT?
use a spectrum analyzer and monitor
look/listen to a bunch of commercial recordings to calibrate your eye /
ear
then check your mixes on the same system
I have found that commercial recordigns that I consider sound good,
look pretty flat on the spectrum analyzer in the bass and mid range.
I try to make my mixes look/sound the same as that.
Seems to work well for me.
I can also see any very high or low frequency noise that I may not be
able to hear.
Mark
I agree with everything Mark said. Sounds like you need to tune your room.
Do the mastered mixes sound too bassy in your room?
Neil Rutman
Executive Producer
Marathon Road Entertainment
"Music For Media"
w w w .marathonroadent . com
"Mark" <makolber@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:7243294d-97d4-4f8e-b26c-8cbb9054d1aa@k13g2000hse.googlegroups . com ...
On May 1, 9:15 am, GarageGuitar <charlesle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT?
use a spectrum analyzer and monitor
look/listen to a bunch of commercial recordings to calibrate your eye /
ear
then check your mixes on the same system
I have found that commercial recordigns that I consider sound good,
look pretty flat on the spectrum analyzer in the bass and mid range.
I try to make my mixes look/sound the same as that.
Seems to work well for me.
I can also see any very high or low frequency noise that I may not be
able to hear.
Mark
Do the mastered mixes sound too bassy in your room?
Neil Rutman
Executive Producer
Marathon Road Entertainment
"Music For Media"
w w w .marathonroadent . com
"Mark" <makolber@yahoo . com > wrote in message
news:7243294d-97d4-4f8e-b26c-8cbb9054d1aa@k13g2000hse.googlegroups . com ...
On May 1, 9:15 am, GarageGuitar <charlesle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT?
use a spectrum analyzer and monitor
look/listen to a bunch of commercial recordings to calibrate your eye /
ear
then check your mixes on the same system
I have found that commercial recordigns that I consider sound good,
look pretty flat on the spectrum analyzer in the bass and mid range.
I try to make my mixes look/sound the same as that.
Seems to work well for me.
I can also see any very high or low frequency noise that I may not be
able to hear.
Mark
GarageGuitar <charleslemon@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
>along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
>Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
>non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
>is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
>engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
>you get".
Yup. This is sadly very common. So what did the mastering guy manage
to do about it?
>What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
>hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
>the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
>phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
>commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
>when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
>would inflate the bass all the time.....
The FIRST thing is you want to do an attended mastering session, so you
can hear what your music sounds like on high grade monitors in a well
set-up room. Just being there will let you hear precisely what you are
missing in the mixing room.
>FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
>
>Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
>EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
>Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
>Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
>
>OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
>it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
Sure, but what is the room like? If you have a huge bump at 50 Hz, for
instance... you won't notice it playing back commercial CDs that have no
real bass extension... but you'll sure notice it playing back material
that has not been low-passed and happens to excite that room resonance.
Play back some sweep tones and listen to hear what the room does at
different frequencies.
Maybe you need bass traps. Maybe you need new monitors. Maybe all you
need to do is move your speakers closer to the wall behind them, or
farther away from the wall behind them. Playing a sweep tone and walking
around the room will give you a good idea of what you're basically in for.
Note that a good mastering guy will have access to tools that will allow
him to add fake low end, or to take residual low frequencies and generate
harmonics that will be more audible on small speakers. These are generally
salvage tools that he will want to avoid using, but they are good tools
to have when you need them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
>along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
>Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
>non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
>is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
>engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
>you get".
Yup. This is sadly very common. So what did the mastering guy manage
to do about it?
>What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
>hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
>the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
>phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
>commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
>when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
>would inflate the bass all the time.....
The FIRST thing is you want to do an attended mastering session, so you
can hear what your music sounds like on high grade monitors in a well
set-up room. Just being there will let you hear precisely what you are
missing in the mixing room.
>FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
>
>Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
>EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
>Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
>Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
>
>OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
>it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
Sure, but what is the room like? If you have a huge bump at 50 Hz, for
instance... you won't notice it playing back commercial CDs that have no
real bass extension... but you'll sure notice it playing back material
that has not been low-passed and happens to excite that room resonance.
Play back some sweep tones and listen to hear what the room does at
different frequencies.
Maybe you need bass traps. Maybe you need new monitors. Maybe all you
need to do is move your speakers closer to the wall behind them, or
farther away from the wall behind them. Playing a sweep tone and walking
around the room will give you a good idea of what you're basically in for.
Note that a good mastering guy will have access to tools that will allow
him to add fake low end, or to take residual low frequencies and generate
harmonics that will be more audible on small speakers. These are generally
salvage tools that he will want to avoid using, but they are good tools
to have when you need them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
GarageGuitar wrote:
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
> hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
> the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
> phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
> commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
> when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
> would inflate the bass all the time.....
>
> FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
>
> Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
> EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
> Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
> Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
>
> OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
> it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
If you are on a budget the fastest way to check out what's really there
is to listen on a pair of really good headphones. They'll tell you just
how much bass is really there. Don't use them to mix, just to check.
Cheers
Ian
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
> hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
> the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
> phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
> commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
> when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
> would inflate the bass all the time.....
>
> FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
>
> Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
> EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
> Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
> Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
>
> OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
> it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
If you are on a budget the fastest way to check out what's really there
is to listen on a pair of really good headphones. They'll tell you just
how much bass is really there. Don't use them to mix, just to check.
Cheers
Ian
> how to I get closer to hearing what's actually there? Should I be
> investing in bass traps for the mixing room on the theory that the room
> resonances are giving me phantom bass?
Yes, exactly. And it's not just resonances, but many peaks and nulls all
over the place. All mix rooms need bass traps. The smaller the room, the
more you need proportionally.
> yes, Behringer! On my budget, it's the most cost efrective and so far it's
> working to spec.
One problem with the Truth line is they have a fair amount of LF resonance
of their own. But your room is by far the larger problem. Once you measure
the LF response at high resolution you'll understand the problem. Here's a
good place to start:
* w w w .realtraps . com /art_etf.htm
--Ethan
> investing in bass traps for the mixing room on the theory that the room
> resonances are giving me phantom bass?
Yes, exactly. And it's not just resonances, but many peaks and nulls all
over the place. All mix rooms need bass traps. The smaller the room, the
more you need proportionally.
> yes, Behringer! On my budget, it's the most cost efrective and so far it's
> working to spec.
One problem with the Truth line is they have a fair amount of LF resonance
of their own. But your room is by far the larger problem. Once you measure
the LF response at high resolution you'll understand the problem. Here's a
good place to start:
* w w w .realtraps . com /art_etf.htm
--Ethan
On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:15:25 -0400, GarageGuitar wrote
(in article
<40bdea2b-acd5-4701-9d8c-4c60b4d49fcf@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups . com >):
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
> hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
> the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
> phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
> commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
> when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
> would inflate the bass all the time.....
>
> FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
>
> Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
> EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
> Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
> Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
>
> OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
> it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
Sounds like there's a difference between your home studio and the mastering
facility.
Are you saying they couldn't find the bass on your mixes or that when the
master came back you couldn't hear the bass on it that was there before?
Regards,
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos * w w w .tyford . com
Guitar player?: * w w w .youtube . com /watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
(in article
<40bdea2b-acd5-4701-9d8c-4c60b4d49fcf@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups . com >):
> Hi all. I've just got my CD master back from the mastering studio,
> along with some notes from the engineer who handled the project.
> Apparently there are a few songs in which the bass is really almost
> non-existent in the mixes, which sia big surprise to me, as the bass
> is clearly there when I listen to the mixes in my home studio. The
> engineer's response to that was "sometimes what you here ain't what
> you get".
>
> What do I do with THAT? More to the point, how to I get closer to
> hearing what's actually there? Should I be investing in bass traps for
> the mixing room on the theory that the room resonances are giving me
> phantom bass? The thing I don't reallt get is that when I play backa
> commercial CD, the bass response in the studio is about the same as
> when I play back my own mixes. You'd think that a bass-resonant room
> would inflate the bass all the time.....
>
> FWIW, the gear in my home studio is:
>
> Behringer ADA8000 8-channel AD/DA lightpipe interface
> EMU 1212M sound card in AMD dual-core PC running WinXP
> Cubase SX3, Reason 4.0
> Behirnger Truth B2030 passive nearfields powered by a QSC USA 370 amp
>
> OK, I can hear the giggling alread - yes, Behringer! On my budget,
> it's the most cost efrective and so far it's working to spec.
Sounds like there's a difference between your home studio and the mastering
facility.
Are you saying they couldn't find the bass on your mixes or that when the
master came back you couldn't hear the bass on it that was there before?
Regards,
Ty Ford
--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos * w w w .tyford . com
Guitar player?: * w w w .youtube . com /watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
hi everyone. Thanks for the input. To answer a few of the questions
posted:
- the mastered tracks sound pretty much the same as the mixes in my
opinion, only louder, the exception being a drop in bass on 3-4
tracks. I did have him boost the bass EQ a bit , which seemed to
correct it.
- I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
thanks again fro the input. every post is a piece of the puzzle :)
posted:
- the mastered tracks sound pretty much the same as the mixes in my
opinion, only louder, the exception being a drop in bass on 3-4
tracks. I did have him boost the bass EQ a bit , which seemed to
correct it.
- I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
thanks again fro the input. every post is a piece of the puzzle :)
GarageGuitar wrote:
> - I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
> someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
> exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
> technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
Check out * w w w .realtraps . com and * w w w .ethanwiner . com
RealTraps are sensibly prices pre-fab broadband absorbers and there's
good guidance on the web site for how to figure out what you need.
Ethan's personal site (he's Mr. RealTraps) has some information on how
you can build your own bass traps and broadband absorbers. From those
two web sites, you should be able to make a reasonable make/buy decision
and get pretty good results with your first shot.
--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
(mriv...@d-and-d . com )
> - I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
> someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
> exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
> technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
Check out * w w w .realtraps . com and * w w w .ethanwiner . com
RealTraps are sensibly prices pre-fab broadband absorbers and there's
good guidance on the web site for how to figure out what you need.
Ethan's personal site (he's Mr. RealTraps) has some information on how
you can build your own bass traps and broadband absorbers. From those
two web sites, you should be able to make a reasonable make/buy decision
and get pretty good results with your first shot.
--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
(mriv...@d-and-d . com )
GarageGuitar <charleslemon@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> - I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
> someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
> exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
> technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
Ethan Winer offers good info at his company site, and at his personal
site, too:
* w w w .realtraps . com /
* w w w .ethanwiner . com /
He not only offers his excellent RealTraps, he also offers free DIY
plans. His stuff is right on, and so is he.
--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
> - I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
> someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
> exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
> technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
Ethan Winer offers good info at his company site, and at his personal
site, too:
* w w w .realtraps . com /
* w w w .ethanwiner . com /
He not only offers his excellent RealTraps, he also offers free DIY
plans. His stuff is right on, and so is he.
--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
On May 2, 9:24 pm, walki...@nv . net (hank alrich) wrote:
> GarageGuitar <charlesle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > - I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
> > someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
> > exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
> > technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
>
> Ethan Winer offers good info at his company site, and at his personal
> site, too:
>
> * w w w .realtraps . com /
>
> * w w w .ethanwiner . com /
>
> He not only offers his excellent RealTraps, he also offers free DIY
> plans. His stuff is right on, and so is he.
>
> --
> ha
> Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
Thanks for the links, guys. Guess it's homework time!
> GarageGuitar <charlesle...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > - I'm pretty certain there are some bass traps in my future :) Can
> > someone walk me through (or provide a link to an idiot's guide) how
> > exactly to decide which traps to buy/build? I'm afraid the
> > technicalities of frequency analysis escape me.....
>
> Ethan Winer offers good info at his company site, and at his personal
> site, too:
>
> * w w w .realtraps . com /
>
> * w w w .ethanwiner . com /
>
> He not only offers his excellent RealTraps, he also offers free DIY
> plans. His stuff is right on, and so is he.
>
> --
> ha
> Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
Thanks for the links, guys. Guess it's homework time!
