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PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I apologize in
advance.
I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
Ok, story time's over.
We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
them again.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I apologize in
advance.
I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
Ok, story time's over.
We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
them again.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
On Fri, 9 May 2008 13:42:08 -0700 (PDT), "Nate K."
<musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote:
>I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I apologize in
>advance.
>
>I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
>because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
>been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
>last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
>
>Ok, story time's over.
>
>We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
>will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
>sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
>since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
>
>We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
>PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
>
>Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
>avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
>chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
>them again.
>
>Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
So what's wrong with the present system when it IS working? Do you
need a bigger mixer? What's wrong about the speakers? Are you
working the amp flat out? Could it just need a service? If you
really need more noise than a 1.4KW system makes, your budget's a bit
low.
On Fri, 9 May 2008 13:42:08 -0700 (PDT), "Nate K."
<musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote:
>I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I apologize in
>advance.
>
>I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
>because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
>been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
>last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
>
>Ok, story time's over.
>
>We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
>will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
>sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
>since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
>
>We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
>PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
>
>Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
>avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
>chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
>them again.
>
>Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
So what's wrong with the present system when it IS working? Do you
need a bigger mixer? What's wrong about the speakers? Are you
working the amp flat out? Could it just need a service? If you
really need more noise than a 1.4KW system makes, your budget's a bit
low.
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
Buy a fan and put it on the power amp. If that doesn't work, have the amp
checked out to make sure it's working properly. If it is, get a fan-cooled
power amp that works.
Peace,
Paul
Buy a fan and put it on the power amp. If that doesn't work, have the amp
checked out to make sure it's working properly. If it is, get a fan-cooled
power amp that works.
Peace,
Paul
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
Nate K. <musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote:
>
>I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
>because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
>been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
>last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
So, fix it. Get an amp with proper cooling, that can handle power line
sags. I don't see why this is a reason to replace your whole PA from
the ground up.
>We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
>will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
>sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
>since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
What do you currently have for mains?
>We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
>PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
Why do you want to run drums through the PA in a medium-sized bar?
Aren't they already too loud to begin with?
>Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
>avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
>chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
>them again.
When it's cutting out, how hot is it? How is it mounted? What is the
power line voltage? Are you ever running it into clipping?
And are you SURE it is seeing only 8 ohms per channel? If you have a
cabinet with a damaged crossover it might be seeing a lot less.
>Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Fix your amp.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Nate K. <musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote:
>
>I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
>because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
>been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
>last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
So, fix it. Get an amp with proper cooling, that can handle power line
sags. I don't see why this is a reason to replace your whole PA from
the ground up.
>We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
>will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
>sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
>since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
What do you currently have for mains?
>We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
>PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
Why do you want to run drums through the PA in a medium-sized bar?
Aren't they already too loud to begin with?
>Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
>avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
>chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
>them again.
When it's cutting out, how hot is it? How is it mounted? What is the
power line voltage? Are you ever running it into clipping?
And are you SURE it is seeing only 8 ohms per channel? If you have a
cabinet with a damaged crossover it might be seeing a lot less.
>Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Fix your amp.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
Nate K. wrote:
> I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
> because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
> been playing.
> We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
> will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
> sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
> since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
What can you salvage from your present PA system? If it's only a problem
with the power amp, you can get a new one, or buy an electric fan for
$20 and blow air on it to keep it from shutting down.
There are so many possibilities. I'd suggest that you go to your
friendly local dealer, look at some gear in your price range, turn some
knobs, listen to some speakers, and make a list of possibilities within
your budget. Then come back here asking what kind of experience people
have with what you can buy. You don't want to buy this stuff mail order
for two reasons. First, you don't want to buy speakers you haven't
heard, and second, it's heavy and shipping cost will kill you.
By the way, the first generation of Mackie power amps were famous for
thermal shutdown, but they've been substantially redesigned. Still, I
can understand that you might shy away from one. But be aware that the
PA companies who are willing to pay for reliability because their
reputation depends on it buy Crown, QSC, BGW, JBL, maybe Crest, and a
couple of more exotic brands. They're quite a bit more expensive than
the Mackie/Alesis/Behringer/Phonic lines.
--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
(mriv...@d-and-d,com )
Nate K. wrote:
> I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
> because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
> been playing.
> We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
> will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
> sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
> since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
What can you salvage from your present PA system? If it's only a problem
with the power amp, you can get a new one, or buy an electric fan for
$20 and blow air on it to keep it from shutting down.
There are so many possibilities. I'd suggest that you go to your
friendly local dealer, look at some gear in your price range, turn some
knobs, listen to some speakers, and make a list of possibilities within
your budget. Then come back here asking what kind of experience people
have with what you can buy. You don't want to buy this stuff mail order
for two reasons. First, you don't want to buy speakers you haven't
heard, and second, it's heavy and shipping cost will kill you.
By the way, the first generation of Mackie power amps were famous for
thermal shutdown, but they've been substantially redesigned. Still, I
can understand that you might shy away from one. But be aware that the
PA companies who are willing to pay for reliability because their
reputation depends on it buy Crown, QSC, BGW, JBL, maybe Crest, and a
couple of more exotic brands. They're quite a bit more expensive than
the Mackie/Alesis/Behringer/Phonic lines.
--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
(mriv...@d-and-d,com )
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
" , some bass (doesn't need to be sub- sonic),
Bass that travels slower than the speed of sound would be
subsonic.
Bass that is lower in frequency than what the ear responds to
would be infrasonic.
Bass that travels faster than the speed of sound would be
supersonic.
Bass that is higher in frequency than what the ear responds to
would be ultrasonic.
Just pickin some nits but don't try to explain this to the guy
at guitar center.
peace
dawg
" , some bass (doesn't need to be sub- sonic),
Bass that travels slower than the speed of sound would be
subsonic.
Bass that is lower in frequency than what the ear responds to
would be infrasonic.
Bass that travels faster than the speed of sound would be
supersonic.
Bass that is higher in frequency than what the ear responds to
would be ultrasonic.
Just pickin some nits but don't try to explain this to the guy
at guitar center.
peace
dawg
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
"Nate K." <musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:e1992f55-6a3c-4627-87b0-003bfbc9f523@24g2000hsh.googlegroups,com ...
> I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I apologize in
> advance.
>
> I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
> because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
> been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
> last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
>
> Ok, story time's over.
>
> We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
> will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
> sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
> since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
>
> We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
> PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
>
> Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
> avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
> chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
> them again.
>
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Oddly enough I recorded a rock concert tonight which used a Mackie amp on
mains. The FOH guy had it in the red the whole show and it made it with no
problems into 4 ohm double 15s.
My suggestion is to buy 2 Behringer EP2500 (still about $300 ea if you shop
around)
I find them to be extremely reliable.
Then assess your needs one piece at a time
Double and triple check your speaker cables. An intermittent short could be
killing you.
Have someone competent check your main speakers. Half fried voice coils,
rubbing, other issues could be killing you.
Personally I picked JBL MRX 525's for mains based on availability, weight,
price, horn pattern, power handeling and aesthetics. It also sounds good to
me and my clients.
"Nate K." <musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:e1992f55-6a3c-4627-87b0-003bfbc9f523@24g2000hsh.googlegroups,com ...
> I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I apologize in
> advance.
>
> I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current PA... mostly
> because the power-amp cuts out due to the small bars with no A/C we've
> been playing. We can't have that happen any more (has happened the
> last 3 gigs that didn't have a house PA).
>
> Ok, story time's over.
>
> We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total package that
> will get us two mains, two monitors, some bass (doesn't need to be sub-
> sonic), a mixer, and power amp. Bass through the mains is prefered
> since we dont have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
>
> We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band through the
> PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums, vocals, etc.).
>
> Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or brands to
> avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the time (with only 8ohm per
> chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie so there isn't appitite to go with
> them again.
>
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Oddly enough I recorded a rock concert tonight which used a Mackie amp on
mains. The FOH guy had it in the red the whole show and it made it with no
problems into 4 ohm double 15s.
My suggestion is to buy 2 Behringer EP2500 (still about $300 ea if you shop
around)
I find them to be extremely reliable.
Then assess your needs one piece at a time
Double and triple check your speaker cables. An intermittent short could be
killing you.
Have someone competent check your main speakers. Half fried voice coils,
rubbing, other issues could be killing you.
Personally I picked JBL MRX 525's for mains based on availability, weight,
price, horn pattern, power handeling and aesthetics. It also sounds good to
me and my clients.
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
"Tim Perry" <timperry@nospammeadelphia,net > wrote in message
news:482516a8$0$30519$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
> Double and triple check your speaker cables. An intermittent short could
be
> killing you.
Including a single strand almost too small to see. Check your cable
connections with a magnifying glass.
Peace,
Paul
"Tim Perry" <timperry@nospammeadelphia,net > wrote in message
news:482516a8$0$30519$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
> Double and triple check your speaker cables. An intermittent short could
be
> killing you.
Including a single strand almost too small to see. Check your cable
connections with a magnifying glass.
Peace,
Paul
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox,com > wrote in message
news:FT9Vj.313403$cQ1.87481@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att,net ...
> "Tim Perry" <timperry@nospammeadelphia,net > wrote in message
> news:482516a8$0$30519$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
>
>> Double and triple check your speaker cables. An
>> intermittent short could
> be
>> killing you.
>
> Including a single strand almost too small to see. Check
> your cable
> connections with a magnifying glass.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
Dont waste your time with a visual inspection. There can be
many problems you will not see unless you are in a darkened
room and there are sparks flying. Get one of the many cable
testers on the market. They will latch an intermittent short
or open that would be missed with a visual or ohm meter test.
The testers are cheap. I am sure some even come with speakon
connectors too. I have this one and found several intermittent
problems and grounded xlr shields which fixed a variety or
problems that I was scratching my head on. $30 well spent. And
the additional benefit of a tone generator and phantom power
tester make it even more handy. I keep it in my gig bag.
http :// www .jr,com /JRProductPage.process?Product_Id=4186042&JRSource=googlebase.datafeed.BEH+CT100
peace
dawg
"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox,com > wrote in message
news:FT9Vj.313403$cQ1.87481@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att,net ...
> "Tim Perry" <timperry@nospammeadelphia,net > wrote in message
> news:482516a8$0$30519$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
>
>> Double and triple check your speaker cables. An
>> intermittent short could
> be
>> killing you.
>
> Including a single strand almost too small to see. Check
> your cable
> connections with a magnifying glass.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
Dont waste your time with a visual inspection. There can be
many problems you will not see unless you are in a darkened
room and there are sparks flying. Get one of the many cable
testers on the market. They will latch an intermittent short
or open that would be missed with a visual or ohm meter test.
The testers are cheap. I am sure some even come with speakon
connectors too. I have this one and found several intermittent
problems and grounded xlr shields which fixed a variety or
problems that I was scratching my head on. $30 well spent. And
the additional benefit of a tone generator and phantom power
tester make it even more handy. I keep it in my gig bag.
http :// www .jr,com /JRProductPage.process?Product_Id=4186042&JRSource=googlebase.datafeed.BEH+CT100
peace
dawg
Re: PA Recommendations (Want some low-end w/o breaking the bank)
"Nate K." <musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:e1992f55-6a3c-4627-87b0-003bfbc9f523@24g2000hsh.googlegroups,com
> I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I
> apologize in advance.
>
> I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current
> PA... mostly because the power-amp cuts out due to the
> small bars with no A/C we've been playing. We can't have
> that happen any more (has happened the last 3 gigs that
> didn't have a house PA).
>
> Ok, story time's over.
>
> We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total
> package that will get us two mains, two monitors, some
> bass (doesn't need to be sub- sonic), a mixer, and power
> amp. Bass through the mains is prefered since we dont
> have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
>
> We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band
> through the PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums,
> vocals, etc.).
>
> Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or
> brands to avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the
> time (with only 8ohm per chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie
> so there isn't appitite to go with them again.
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
What speakers are you using for mains?
You seem to be talking about using a Mackie FR-1400 which is a fairly
compenent amp. OTOH, if it is cutting in and out, you might be having ribbon
cable problems, which my Mackie 1200 fell prey to.
At any rate, if your FR-1400 is recent enough production, then your problems
might be with your speakers. In particular, they may not be efficient
enough, or you may using them in a parallel configuration that doesnt
exploit your amp.
Speakers used as mains can vary from about 95 dB/watt to over 100 dB/watt.
That all by itself can change the stress on your amplifier by 4:1.
"Nate K." <musicluvah1981@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:e1992f55-6a3c-4627-87b0-003bfbc9f523@24g2000hsh.googlegroups,com
> I'm sure this has been asked a million times so I
> apologize in advance.
>
> I'm in a 5-piece band and we've outgrown our current
> PA... mostly because the power-amp cuts out due to the
> small bars with no A/C we've been playing. We can't have
> that happen any more (has happened the last 3 gigs that
> didn't have a house PA).
>
> Ok, story time's over.
>
> We're looking in a price range of $1500-$2500 for a total
> package that will get us two mains, two monitors, some
> bass (doesn't need to be sub- sonic), a mixer, and power
> amp. Bass through the mains is prefered since we dont
> have a lot of cargo space for a big sub.
>
> We play medium sized bars and want to run the whole band
> through the PA (need 12 XLR inputs for mic'd amps, drums,
> vocals, etc.).
>
> Any suggestions on brands or packages that work well or
> brands to avoid? Our current amp that cuts out all the
> time (with only 8ohm per chan on a 1400w amp) is a mackie
> so there isn't appitite to go with them again.
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
What speakers are you using for mains?
You seem to be talking about using a Mackie FR-1400 which is a fairly
compenent amp. OTOH, if it is cutting in and out, you might be having ribbon
cable problems, which my Mackie 1200 fell prey to.
At any rate, if your FR-1400 is recent enough production, then your problems
might be with your speakers. In particular, they may not be efficient
enough, or you may using them in a parallel configuration that doesnt
exploit your amp.
Speakers used as mains can vary from about 95 dB/watt to over 100 dB/watt.
That all by itself can change the stress on your amplifier by 4:1.
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