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Audio Card Problems

Reply from: mcp6453
Date: 10 May 2008, 16:48
Audio Card Problems

One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and the other has
an M-Audio DIO-2496. Both computers are XP SP2, have no viruses or
spyware, and are completely patched and up to date.

If I try to add narration to a slide presentation in PowerPoint 2003,
the program crashes when I click on Set Microphone Level. (I know I can
embed a file separately, but timing with narration works differently.)

If I change either computer to the on board sound "card", the program
doesn't crash. Therefore, at least on these two computers, the DAL and
the M-Audio cards are not compatible with PowerPoint 2003.

Two questions: If you have PowerPoint 2003 on a computer with either of
these sound cards, would you test the Slide Show | Record Narration |
Set Microphone Level... function to see if PPT crashes on you? In any
case, do you have a suggestion for troublehooting this problem. I really
don't want to use the garbage on board audio for the presentation.

Reply from: Paul Stamler
Date: 10 May 2008, 17:53
Re: Audio Card Problems

"mcp6453" <mcp6453@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:dBiVj.154192$3k2.18746@fe10.news.easynews,com ...
> One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and the other has
> an M-Audio DIO-2496. Both computers are XP SP2, have no viruses or
> spyware, and are completely patched and up to date.
>
> If I try to add narration to a slide presentation in PowerPoint 2003,
> the program crashes when I click on Set Microphone Level. (I know I can
> embed a file separately, but timing with narration works differently.)

I haven't used the DIO-2496, but I have a CardDeluxe, and it has no on-board
microphone preamps. My recollection of the MIO-2496 is that it doesn't
either. So you're asking the computer to set something which doesn't exist,
and it gags.

Presumably you're using a preamp or mixer to amplify the microphone signal?
That will have a hardware gain adjustment, which is where you should be
setting the mic level.

Peace,
Paul



Reply from: mcp6453
Date: 10 May 2008, 18:03
Re: Audio Card Problems

Paul Stamler wrote:
> "mcp6453" <mcp6453@gmail,com > wrote in message
> news:dBiVj.154192$3k2.18746@fe10.news.easynews,com ...
>> One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and the other has
>> an M-Audio DIO-2496. Both computers are XP SP2, have no viruses or
>> spyware, and are completely patched and up to date.
>>
>> If I try to add narration to a slide presentation in PowerPoint 2003,
>> the program crashes when I click on Set Microphone Level. (I know I can
>> embed a file separately, but timing with narration works differently.)
>
> I haven't used the DIO-2496, but I have a CardDeluxe, and it has no on-board
> microphone preamps. My recollection of the MIO-2496 is that it doesn't
> either. So you're asking the computer to set something which doesn't exist,
> and it gags.
>
> Presumably you're using a preamp or mixer to amplify the microphone signal?
> That will have a hardware gain adjustment, which is where you should be
> setting the mic level.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
>

You are correct, neither card has mic preamps. I use external preamps.
There is no problem setting mic gain. The problem is getting line audio
instead of microphone audio into PPT. Based on some subsequent testing
I'm doing, I think you're right: Apparently PPT is smart enough to look
at the mic input in hardware and, when it doesn't find one, it's chokes.
Now the challenge is to find a way to make PPT think that the audio
coming in is mic audio instead of line audio. If that's true, the
problem is more with the computer (or Windows) than with the particular
sound cards. Thanks.

Reply from: John Phillips
Date: 11 May 2008, 13:46
Re: Audio Card Problems


"mcp6453" <mcp6453@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:dBiVj.154192$3k2.18746@fe10.news.easynews,com ...
> One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and the other has an
> M-Audio DIO-2496. Both computers are XP SP2, have no viruses or spyware,
> and are completely patched and up to date.
>

> Two questions: If you have PowerPoint 2003 on a computer with either of
> these sound cards, would you test the Slide Show | Record Narration | Set
> Microphone Level... function to see if PPT crashes on you? In any case, do
> you have a suggestion for troublehooting this problem. I really don't want
> to use the garbage on board audio for the presentation.

I get the Runtime Error with the M-Audio 2496 installed.



Reply from: Arny Krueger
Date: 11 May 2008, 16:39
Re: Audio Card Problems

"mcp6453" <mcp6453@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:dBiVj.154192$3k2.18746@fe10.news.easynews,com

> One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and
> the other has an M-Audio DIO-2496. Both computers are XP
> SP2, have no viruses or spyware, and are completely
> patched and up to date.

How do these cards work when you try to record with standard recording
software, such as Sound Recorder or Audacity?

> If I try to add narration to a slide presentation in
> PowerPoint 2003, the program crashes when I click on Set
> Microphone Level. (I know I can embed a file separately,
> but timing with narration works differently.)

Set Microphone level is not an implemented function for either card.

The hard crash seems severe, but its origin would be the absence of a
software-controlled microphone input level feature for either of these
cards.

> If I change either computer to the on board sound "card",
> the program doesn't crash.

That's because as a rule, built -in audio interfaces do implement a
software-controlled microphone input.

> Therefore, at least on these
> two computers, the DAL and the M-Audio cards are not
> compatible with PowerPoint 2003.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over that.

> Two questions: If you have PowerPoint 2003 on a computer
> with either of these sound cards, would you test the
> Slide Show | Record Narration | Set Microphone Level...

I would recognize that with either card, the function that this operation
requires does not exist.

> function to see if PPT crashes on you? In any case, do
> you have a suggestion for troublehooting this problem. I
> really don't want to use the garbage on board audio for
> the presentation.

I'd do my recording with a program like Audacity, edit up some wav file
sound clips, and plug them into PPT as desired.



Reply from: Earl Kiosterud
Date: 12 May 2008, 04:40
Re: Audio Card Problems


"mcp6453" <mcp6453@gmail,com > wrote in message
news:dBiVj.154192$3k2.18746@fe10.news.easynews,com ...
> One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and the other has an M-Audio
> DIO-2496. Both computers are XP SP2, have no viruses or spyware, and are completely
> patched and up to date.
>
> If I try to add narration to a slide presentation in PowerPoint 2003, the program crashes
> when I click on Set Microphone Level. (I know I can embed a file separately, but timing
> with narration works differently.)
>
> If I change either computer to the on board sound "card", the program doesn't crash.
> Therefore, at least on these two computers, the DAL and the M-Audio cards are not
> compatible with PowerPoint 2003.
>
> Two questions: If you have PowerPoint 2003 on a computer with either of these sound cards,
> would you test the Slide Show | Record Narration | Set Microphone Level... function to see
> if PPT crashes on you? In any case, do you have a suggestion for troublehooting this
> problem. I really don't want to use the garbage on board audio for the presentation.

I don't get a hard crash, but an abnormal termination error, after which PowerPoint closes
when I attempt to do the Set Mic Level if my Delta soundcard is the default recording
device. As Arny said, it's trying to use the mic input, which doesn't exist on the Delta
card. It works OK when I select the internal soundcard, which does have a mic input. With
the Delta card set as the default recording device, PowerPoint will record narration. So it
is compatible with PowerPoint, as long as I don't try to use the nonexistent mic input on
that card.

Virtually no one will be know you've used your internal soundcard in your presentation.
Internal soundcards are not nearly as bad as is popularly touted, and throwing technical
stuff like bit depths and sampling rates and soundcard quality and all that stuff isn't
going to improve your presentation, whereas the voice of the speaker, delivery, the text,
etc., will be what matters. Hugely. I think you should approach the project in that light.
--
Earl



Reply from: Laurence Payne
Date: 12 May 2008, 09:58
Re: Audio Card Problems

On Mon, 12 May 2008 02:40:34 GMT, "Earl Kiosterud"
<someone@nowhere,com > wrote:

>Virtually no one will be know you've used your internal soundcard in your presentation.
>Internal soundcards are not nearly as bad as is popularly touted, and throwing technical
>stuff like bit depths and sampling rates and soundcard quality and all that stuff isn't
>going to improve your presentation, whereas the voice of the speaker, delivery, the text,
>etc., will be what matters. Hugely. I think you should approach the project in that light.

Trouble is, he'll have to buy a special crap microphone that
interfaces with the onboard mic input. And that WILL be audibly
inferior.

Reply from: Paul Stamler
Date: 12 May 2008, 10:22
Re: Audio Card Problems

"Laurence Payne" <lp@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote in message
news:33uf241i86ks0r4i0p88jg6u62ifndkkj2@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 02:40:34 GMT, "Earl Kiosterud"
> <someone@nowhere,com > wrote:
>
> >Virtually no one will be know you've used your internal soundcard in your
presentation.
> >Internal soundcards are not nearly as bad as is popularly touted, and
throwing technical
> >stuff like bit depths and sampling rates and soundcard quality and all
that stuff isn't
> >going to improve your presentation, whereas the voice of the speaker,
delivery, the text,
> >etc., will be what matters. Hugely. I think you should approach the
project in that light.
>
> Trouble is, he'll have to buy a special crap microphone that
> interfaces with the onboard mic input. And that WILL be audibly
> inferior.

Naw -- he could use a decent dynamic mic and an XLR > miniplug adapter,
which he could get made up at Markertek.

Peace,
Paul



Reply from: Steve King
Date: 12 May 2008, 15:38
Re: Audio Card Problems

"Paul Stamler" <pstamlerhell@pobox,com > wrote in message
news:f7TVj.322776$cQ1.132@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att,net ...
| "Laurence Payne" <lp@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote in message
| news:33uf241i86ks0r4i0p88jg6u62ifndkkj2@4ax,com ...
| > On Mon, 12 May 2008 02:40:34 GMT, "Earl Kiosterud"
| > <someone@nowhere,com > wrote:
| >
| > >Virtually no one will be know you've used your internal soundcard in
your
| presentation.
| > >Internal soundcards are not nearly as bad as is popularly touted, and
| throwing technical
| > >stuff like bit depths and sampling rates and soundcard quality and all
| that stuff isn't
| > >going to improve your presentation, whereas the voice of the speaker,
| delivery, the text,
| > >etc., will be what matters. Hugely. I think you should approach the
| project in that light.
| >
| > Trouble is, he'll have to buy a special crap microphone that
| > interfaces with the onboard mic input. And that WILL be audibly
| > inferior.
|
| Naw -- he could use a decent dynamic mic and an XLR > miniplug adapter,
| which he could get made up at Markertek.
|
| Peace,
| Paul

Or he could spend $124 on a MicPort Pro interface and use any microphone on
the planet. Or, for less money, he could use one of the many USB
microphones now out there. The AT2020 USB is one example. Or, he could put
10 nine-volt batteries (for phantom power) in a box with an XLR in and a
mini-plug tail out. Or get a phantom power supply off Ebay for $50 bucks or
so. Or --- insert your solutions here.

Steve King



Reply from: Earl Kiosterud
Date: 12 May 2008, 18:10
Re: Audio Card Problems

"Laurence Payne" <lp@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote in message
news:33uf241i86ks0r4i0p88jg6u62ifndkkj2@4ax,com ...

> Trouble is, he'll have to buy a special crap microphone that
> interfaces with the onboard mic input. And that WILL be audibly
> inferior.

Good point about the PC microphones.

Also, it looks as though I must retract my statement about internal sound cards being
suitable, as least provisionally. I've not seen one that wasn't quite satisfactory using
the line inputs and outputs. But I tried using the mic input on my Intel Integrated Audio
soundcard, something I've been curious about, but never really looked at. I simply could
not get satisfactory results no matter what I did. There was a lot of digital-sounding
noise with the mic input unplugged or shorted. It varied with the mic gain setting. With a
Shure 545 dynamic mic wired for high impedance, the treble was severely rolled off. The
same with an EV RE18 mic using a low-to-high impedance transformer. With the RE18 wired low
impedance directly to the mic input, the response sounded OK, but there was still noise.
The only "Advanced" control for the mic input was a "Mic boost," which increased the gain,
but didn't change any of the symptoms. In short, the mic input on this soundcard appars to
be unusable with a dynamic mic.

The OP may be right about "garbage internal audio." It's an IBM PC, with an Intel
soundcard. I guess brand doesn't necessarily mean they can get it right. Oh, well.

I still think the OP can probably use his internal sound card. He should try it. He says
he has an external preamp. He can use that with his line input. He'll just have to do
some trial and error to get the levels right. He can do a test recording using the Windows
Sound Recorder, or Audacity.
--
Earl



Reply from: William Sommerwerck
Date: 12 May 2008, 13:24
Re: Audio Card Problems

Actually, BCA is a topology developed by Gerry Stanley at Crown.

I had two of the amplifiers using it, and they sounded horrible. A friend of
mine, who used to be a honcho at Crown, apologized to me twice: "If I had
still been working at Crown, these amps would never have gotten to market."



Reply from: Richard Crowley
Date: 12 May 2008, 14:43
Re: Audio Card Problems

"mcp6453" wrote ...
> One of my two audio computers has a CardDeluxe card, and the other has
> an M-Audio DIO-2496. Both computers are XP SP2, have no viruses or
> spyware, and are completely patched and up to date.
>
> If I try to add narration to a slide presentation in PowerPoint 2003,
> the program crashes when I click on Set Microphone Level. (I know I
> can embed a file separately, but timing with narration works
> differently.)

What you didn't mention is how (if?) either of these audio
devices work properly otherwise? With what recording apps?

> If I change either computer to the on board sound "card", the program
> doesn't crash. Therefore, at least on these two computers, the DAL and
> the M-Audio cards are not compatible with PowerPoint 2003.

So what? The internal sound system on most any computer is
more than adequate for recording narration accompanying a
PPT slide show. Just use it and get on with your life. You are
majoring in minors.

> Two questions: If you have PowerPoint 2003 on a computer with either
> of these sound cards, would you test the Slide Show | Record Narration
> | Set Microphone Level... function to see if PPT crashes on you? In
> any case, do you have a suggestion for troublehooting this problem. I
> really don't want to use the garbage on board audio for the
> presentation.

On board audio may be "garbage" for recording high-end muskc,
etc, but it is completely suitable for recording PPT narration.

If you are so obsessive about audio quality for your PPT, then
record it using your favorite audio recording software and your
high-end sound gadget, then pop the recorded file(s) into PPT.





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