Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

Hi,

so I'm trying to put a home studio together:

got a pair of Alesis M1 520's (best you can buy for $200)
* w w w .zzounds . com /item--ALEM1ACTIVE520

with a Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer ($69)
* w w w .zzounds . com /item--BEHXENYX1002

So, I hook everything up, I plug in a cd player, and I see (ok, I
'hear') lots of detail and all of that, acoustic instruments sound
very detailed and I'm happy, BUTplaying with other kinds of music
where did the bass go?

So I got a subwoofer from FOSTEX, it was too boomy in the low end, I
needed more bass in the lower/ midrange (I don't how else to expalin
it), so that going back!

Then I thought, can an EQ help fill those parts of the sound spectrum
that are missing?
* w w w .zzounds . com /item--PRSEQ3B ($99)

What's your take when you're using Monitor speakers? In your
experience would and EQ help balanacing things out just for listening
music? I know that monitors are suppose to be flat.

Any input is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Alex

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!


"akbal" <adg00101@gmail . com > wrote in message
news:980bb8c2-7abe-438b-8060-4f3721598273@z16g2000prn.googlegroups . com ...
> Hi,
>
> so I'm trying to put a home studio together:
>
> got a pair of Alesis M1 520's (best you can buy for $200)
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--ALEM1ACTIVE520
>
> with a Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer ($69)
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--BEHXENYX1002
>
> So, I hook everything up, I plug in a cd player, and I see (ok, I
> 'hear') lots of detail and all of that, acoustic instruments sound
> very detailed and I'm happy, BUTplaying with other kinds of music
> where did the bass go?
>
> So I got a subwoofer from FOSTEX, it was too boomy in the low end, I
> needed more bass in the lower/ midrange (I don't how else to expalin
> it), so that going back!
>
> Then I thought, can an EQ help fill those parts of the sound spectrum
> that are missing?
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--PRSEQ3B ($99)
>
> What's your take when you're using Monitor speakers? In your
> experience would and EQ help balanacing things out just for listening
> music? I know that monitors are suppose to be flat.
>
> Any input is much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex

setup your room properly, and you won't need any EQ. it's usually the other
way around (loose LFE), but there are plenty of sites getting a room setip
for monitoring.

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On May 14, 11:26 pm, "joe mama" <dmos...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> "akbal" <adg00...@gmail . com > wrote in message
>
> news:980bb8c2-7abe-438b-8060-4f3721598273@z16g2000prn.googlegroups . com ...
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > so I'm trying to put a home studio together:
>
> > got a pair of Alesis M1 520's (best you can buy for $200)
> > * w w w .zzounds . com /item--ALEM1ACTIVE520
>
> > with a Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer ($69)
> > * w w w .zzounds . com /item--BEHXENYX1002
>
> > So, I hook everything up, I plug in a cd player, and I see (ok, I
> > 'hear') lots of detail and all of that, acoustic instruments sound
> > very detailed and I'm happy, BUTplaying with other kinds of music
> > where did the bass go?
>
> > So I got a subwoofer from FOSTEX, it was too boomy in the low end, I
> > needed more bass in the lower/ midrange (I don't how else to expalin
> > it), so that going back!
>
> > Then I thought, can an EQ help fill those parts of the sound spectrum
> > that are missing?
> > * w w w .zzounds . com /item--PRSEQ3B($99)
>
> > What's your take when you're using Monitor speakers? In your
> > experience would and EQ help balanacing things out just for listening
> > music? I know that monitors are suppose to be flat.
>
> > Any input is much appreciated.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Alex
>
> setup your room properly, and you won't need any EQ. it's usually the othe=
r
> way around (loose LFE), but there are plenty of sites getting a room setip=

> for monitoring.

Well, it's my bedroom, pretty much the arrangement I have right now is
the way it's going to stay, how come a mini system from Denon sounds
good very good bass? I don't think its the room or arrangement, these
speakers (which I just returned) had EQ managment and all of that but
did nothing!

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!


"akbal" <adg00101@gmail . com > wrote in message

> Well, it's my bedroom, pretty much the arrangement I have right now is
> the way it's going to stay, how come a mini system from Denon sounds
> good very good bass? I don't think its the room or arrangement, these
> speakers (which I just returned) had EQ managment and all of that but
> did nothing!

Your room sucks... no question about it. ;-)

Don't worry... you're in the same boat as a million other Guitar Center
home studio owners.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
Morgan Audio Media Service
* w w w .m-a-m-s DOT com
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_____________________________
* w w w .januarysound . com

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On May 15, 5:12 pm, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)" <fin...@m-a-m-s . com C/Odm>
wrote:
> "akbal" <adg00...@gmail . com > wrote in message
> > Well, it's my bedroom, pretty much the arrangement I have right now is
> > the way it's going to stay, how come a mini system from Denon sounds
> > good very good bass? I don't think its the room or arrangement, these
> > speakers (which I just returned) had EQ managment and all of that but
> > did nothing!
>
> Your room sucks... no question about it.      ;-)
>
> Don't worry... you're in the same boat as a million other Guitar Center
> home studio owners.
>
> --
> David  Morgan (MAMS)
> Morgan Audio Media Service * w w w .m-a-m-sDOT com
> Dallas, Texas  (214) 662-9901
> * w w w .januarysound . com

Yeah I here you!
But I'm just beginning you know?
And the future looks promising...

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:25:27 -0700 (PDT), akbal <adg00101@gmail . com >
wrote:

>got a pair of Alesis M1 520's (best you can buy for $200)
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--ALEM1ACTIVE520
>
>with a Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer ($69)
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--BEHXENYX1002
>
>So, I hook everything up, I plug in a cd player, and I see (ok, I
>'hear') lots of detail and all of that, acoustic instruments sound
>very detailed and I'm happy, BUTplaying with other kinds of music
>where did the bass go?
>
>So I got a subwoofer from FOSTEX, it was too boomy in the low end, I
>needed more bass in the lower/ midrange (I don't how else to expalin
>it), so that going back!

Yup. Small speakers don't have much low end. Just throwing a sub
unit in may not integrate well. (If a subbass speaker is turned up
loud enough to conciously hear it as a separate source it's too loud).

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

akbal <adg00101@gmail . com > wrote:
>so I'm trying to put a home studio together:
>
>got a pair of Alesis M1 520's (best you can buy for $200)
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--ALEM1ACTIVE520
>
>with a Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer ($69)
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--BEHXENYX1002
>
>So, I hook everything up, I plug in a cd player, and I see (ok, I
>'hear') lots of detail and all of that, acoustic instruments sound
>very detailed and I'm happy, BUTplaying with other kinds of music
>where did the bass go?

Well, you've got speakers that don't have a lot of low end, and really
aren't all that accurate in the midrange either. But, there's some amount
of fiddling that you can do with regard to the room. If you move around the
room, does the low end change? If you move the speakers closer to the wall
or farther from the all, does the low end change?

>So I got a subwoofer from FOSTEX, it was too boomy in the low end, I
>needed more bass in the lower/ midrange (I don't how else to expalin
>it), so that going back!

Right, because it doesn't fix the problem. If you have a room problem,
the sub will not help. If the mains have so little low end that they
cannot reach down to the crossover point of the sub, it will not help.
>
>Then I thought, can an EQ help fill those parts of the sound spectrum
>that are missing?
> * w w w .zzounds . com /item--PRSEQ3B ($99)

No, an equalizer ads nothing. If the speakers cannot reproduce it, all
the EQ in the world will do you no good.

>What's your take when you're using Monitor speakers? In your
>experience would and EQ help balanacing things out just for listening
>music? I know that monitors are suppose to be flat.

I suggest using speakers that have actual low end and setting up your room
to minimize low end problems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On May 15, 4:56 am, klu...@panix . com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> akbal  <adg00...@gmail . com > wrote:
> >so I'm trying to put a home studio together:
>
> >got a pair of Alesis M1 520's (best you can buy for $200)
> > * w w w .zzounds . com /item--ALEM1ACTIVE520
>
> >with a Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer ($69)
> > * w w w .zzounds . com /item--BEHXENYX1002
>
> >So, I hook everything up, I plug in a cd player, and I see (ok, I
> >'hear') lots of detail and all of that, acoustic instruments sound
> >very detailed and I'm happy, BUTplaying with other kinds of music
> >where did the bass go?
>
> Well, you've got speakers that don't have a lot of low end, and really
> aren't all that accurate in the midrange either.  But, there's some amou=
nt
> of fiddling that you can do with regard to the room.  If you move around=
the
> room, does the low end change?  If you move the speakers closer to the w=
all
> or farther from the all, does the low end change?
>
> >So I got a subwoofer from FOSTEX, it was too boomy in the low end, I
> >needed more bass in the lower/ midrange (I don't how else to expalin
> >it), so that going back!
>
> Right, because it doesn't fix the problem.  If you have a room problem,
> the sub will not help.  If the mains have so little low end that they
> cannot reach down to the crossover point of the sub, it will not help.
>
>
>
> >Then I thought, can an EQ help fill those parts of the sound spectrum
> >that are missing?
> > * w w w .zzounds . com /item--PRSEQ3B($99)
>
> No, an equalizer ads nothing.  If the speakers cannot reproduce it, all
> the EQ in the world will do you no good.
>
> >What's your take when you're using Monitor speakers? In your
> >experience would and EQ help balanacing things out just for listening
> >music? I know that monitors are suppose to be flat.
>
> I suggest using speakers that have actual low end and setting up your room=

> to minimize low end problems.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I'm just going to try out some KRK Rockit 8's which have a bigger
speaker or maybe Tannoy Reveals like someone suggested to me. I don't
understand why a mini system (denon) sounds fuller but does not have
as detailed and imaging.

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

akbal <adg00101@gmail . com > wrote:
>
>I'm just going to try out some KRK Rockit 8's which have a bigger
>speaker or maybe Tannoy Reveals like someone suggested to me. I don't
>understand why a mini system (denon) sounds fuller but does not have
>as detailed and imaging.

The mini system sounds fuller because it has a huge hump around 150 Hz
or so, to fool your ear into thinking it has real bass. But it actually
has no real bass extension at all.

Play a sweep tone and listen to what it does.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On May 15, 4:22 pm, klu...@panix . com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> akbal  <adg00...@gmail . com > wrote:
>
> >I'm just going to try out some KRK Rockit 8's which have a bigger
> >speaker or maybe Tannoy Reveals like someone suggested to me. I don't
> >understand why a mini system (denon) sounds fuller but does not have
> >as detailed and imaging.
>
> The mini system sounds fuller because it has a huge hump around 150 Hz
> or so, to fool your ear into thinking it has real bass.  But it actually=

> has no real bass extension at all.
>
> Play a sweep tone and listen to what it does.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Wow. That's really weird and intriguing for me at the same time.
"...my ear has been fooled into thinking it has real bass..."
we do live in the matrix my friend that's it.

So why should a monitor have good bass in the first place? If its
purpose is to show all the details and be accurate, I'm confused now,
if a monitor also makes you believe that it has bass, it is not being
accurate, because the bass is not really there! How does a monitor
really have to sound then?

I'm sorry! hahaha

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

akbal <adg00101@gmail . com > wrote:
>Wow. That's really weird and intriguing for me at the same time.
>"...my ear has been fooled into thinking it has real bass..."
>we do live in the matrix my friend that's it.

Listen to a sweep tone. You won't hear the tone at all until it gets
up to around 100 Hz, then it will get very abruptly louder, then die
down. Try it.

The lower midrange boost is what Europeans used to call the "American
speaker characteristic."

>So why should a monitor have good bass in the first place? If its
>purpose is to show all the details and be accurate, I'm confused now,
>if a monitor also makes you believe that it has bass, it is not being
>accurate, because the bass is not really there! How does a monitor
>really have to sound then?

A monitor should be accurate. In the real world, sadly, monitors aren't
very accurate, so you will have to learn to live with their warts. In
the $200 range you can't expect anything even approaching a real studio
monitor either, sadly.

But the monitor and the room is usually the weakest link in the chain.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On May 15, 6:00 pm, klu...@panix . com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> akbal  <adg00...@gmail . com > wrote:
> >Wow. That's really weird and intriguing for me at the same time.
> >"...my ear has been fooled into thinking it has real bass..."
> >we do live in the matrix my friend that's it.
>
> Listen to a sweep tone.  You won't hear the tone at all until it gets
> up to around 100 Hz, then it will get very abruptly louder, then die
> down.  Try it.
>
> The lower midrange boost is what Europeans used to call the "American
> speaker characteristic."
>
> >So why should a monitor have good bass in the first place? If its
> >purpose is to show all the details and be accurate, I'm confused now,
> >if a monitor also makes you believe that it has bass, it is not being
> >accurate, because the bass is not really there! How does a monitor
> >really have to sound then?
>
> A monitor should be accurate.  In the real world, sadly, monitors aren't=

> very accurate, so you will have to learn to live with their warts.  In
> the $200 range you can't expect anything even approaching a real studio
> monitor either, sadly.
>
> But the monitor and the room is usually the weakest link in the chain.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I can still appreciate the detail though even at the $200 range,
I'm going to try the $400 range to see if I can get more humth.

I don't get to talk to very knowledgeable people very often,
so for the record please mention,
monitors that are accurate fall under what characteristics?

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT), akbal <adg00101@gmail . com >
wrote:

>monitors that are accurate fall under what characteristics?

A wonderful, and perennial, topic in so many fields.

In audio work, both the speakers and the room (and
furnishings) matter. Plus all kinds of tiny details
about location in the room of both the speakers and
you. Rooms are so horribly bad (I exaggerate thee not
the tiniest bit) that they completely dominate the
sound that you hear indoors.

We're only saved from a death spiral by the Holy
Grace that the sound from loudspeakers arrives *first*.
Then all the the other sound, having been bounced
around in the room in, usually, unflattering ways
arrives to pile on. Our internal wetware crunches
this appropriately.


An "accurate" monitor must have both an accurate
direct "first arrival" sound and a well-planned
model of "second arrival" sound, a model that
involves its radiation pattern.

Several different radiation pattern ideals have been
attempted over the years, omni-directional, bipolar,
line-arrays, etc. but the common factor has always been
the difficulty of extending the pattern over the
three decade response of human hearing. That's about
ten octaves, so hard-n'-fast "rules" are quickly
laughed away.


All the best fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"I have a gift for enraging people, but if I ever bore you,
it'll be with a knife." -Louise Brooks

Re: Would an EQ help? Newbie please help!

On May 15, 9:31 pm, Chris Hornbeck <chrishornbeckremovet...@att . net >
wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT), akbal <adg00...@gmail . com >
> wrote:
>
> >monitors that are accurate fall under what characteristics?
>
> A wonderful, and perennial, topic in so many fields.
>
> In audio work, both the speakers and the room (and
> furnishings) matter. Plus all kinds of tiny details
> about location in the room of both the speakers and
> you. Rooms are so horribly bad (I exaggerate thee not
> the tiniest bit) that they completely dominate the
> sound that you hear indoors.
>
> We're only saved from a death spiral by the Holy
> Grace that the sound from loudspeakers arrives *first*.
> Then all the the other sound, having been bounced
> around in the room in, usually, unflattering ways
> arrives to pile on. Our internal wetware crunches
> this appropriately.
>
> An "accurate" monitor must have both an accurate
> direct "first arrival" sound and a well-planned
> model of "second arrival" sound, a model that
> involves its radiation pattern.
>
> Several different radiation pattern ideals have been
> attempted over the years, omni-directional, bipolar,
> line-arrays, etc. but the common factor has always been
> the difficulty of extending the pattern over the
> three decade response of human hearing. That's about
> ten octaves, so hard-n'-fast "rules" are quickly
> laughed away.
>
> All the best fortune,
>
> Chris Hornbeck
> "I have a gift for enraging people, but if I ever bore you,
> it'll be with a knife." -Louise Brooks

All the best fortune to you too.