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Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
more than that.
The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
Links:
The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
The LAN-over-mains equipment:
http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
more than that.
The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
Links:
The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
The LAN-over-mains equipment:
http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>more than that.
>
>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>
>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>
>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>
>Links:
>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>
>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
Fine, but are you sure its the amplifier.
What else is in the system.
I would first start out with a good surge strip like a Tripp-Lite that
has built in filters.
greg
In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>more than that.
>
>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>
>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>
>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>
>Links:
>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>
>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
Fine, but are you sure its the amplifier.
What else is in the system.
I would first start out with a good surge strip like a Tripp-Lite that
has built in filters.
greg
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
On 2008-01-28, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
> In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>more than that.
>>
>>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>>
>>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>>
>>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>>
>>Links:
>>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>>
>>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>>
>
> Fine, but are you sure its the amplifier.
> What else is in the system.
>
> I would first start out with a good surge strip like a Tripp-Lite that
> has built in filters.
The noise is there even when I remove any input devices, so the only items
in the system are two speakers and an amplifier.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
On 2008-01-28, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
> In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>more than that.
>>
>>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>>
>>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>>
>>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>>
>>Links:
>>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>>
>>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>>
>
> Fine, but are you sure its the amplifier.
> What else is in the system.
>
> I would first start out with a good surge strip like a Tripp-Lite that
> has built in filters.
The noise is there even when I remove any input devices, so the only items
in the system are two speakers and an amplifier.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
Toby Newman wrote:
> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
> and the wall.
Entirely POINTLESS ! It won't do anything. You need a FILTER not a surge
protector.
As for blaming the amp, remind yourself that it wasn't designed to coexist
with a LAN over power cables.
Graham
Toby Newman wrote:
> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
> and the wall.
Entirely POINTLESS ! It won't do anything. You need a FILTER not a surge
protector.
As for blaming the amp, remind yourself that it wasn't designed to coexist
with a LAN over power cables.
Graham
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
On 2008-01-28, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
>
>
> Toby Newman wrote:
>
>> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>> and the wall.
>
> Entirely POINTLESS ! It won't do anything. You need a FILTER not a surge
> protector.
>
> As for blaming the amp, remind yourself that it wasn't designed to coexist
> with a LAN over power cables.
No need to shout. Surge protectors commonly include filtering and are much
more prolific than mains filters - I own several. I put one in-line with the
power supply to the amp last night and noted an attenuation of the noise
by around 50%. From this I learnt that filtering more agressively on the
mains supply to the amplifier could push the noise down into insignificance.
Until I'd done that test I didn't know if the interference was main-cable-borne
or airborne. I imagine my unshielded mains circuit is acting like a large
broadcat antenna with this LAN signal over it.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
On 2008-01-28, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
>
>
> Toby Newman wrote:
>
>> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>> and the wall.
>
> Entirely POINTLESS ! It won't do anything. You need a FILTER not a surge
> protector.
>
> As for blaming the amp, remind yourself that it wasn't designed to coexist
> with a LAN over power cables.
No need to shout. Surge protectors commonly include filtering and are much
more prolific than mains filters - I own several. I put one in-line with the
power supply to the amp last night and noted an attenuation of the noise
by around 50%. From this I learnt that filtering more agressively on the
mains supply to the amplifier could push the noise down into insignificance.
Until I'd done that test I didn't know if the interference was main-cable-borne
or airborne. I imagine my unshielded mains circuit is acting like a large
broadcat antenna with this LAN signal over it.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
Toby Newman wrote:
> starting with the simple things like ferrite rings
Again, that would do almost nothing for low frequencies.
Graham
Toby Newman wrote:
> starting with the simple things like ferrite rings
Again, that would do almost nothing for low frequencies.
Graham
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
On 2008-01-28, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
> Toby Newman wrote:
>> starting with the simple things like ferrite rings
> Again, that would do almost nothing for low frequencies.
> Graham
I don't know what's happening in the amplifier but it doesn't seem unfeasable
that a high-frequency noise on the mains (the LAN signal is up around 20-30MHz)
is causing audible subharmonics (~6KHz) in the amplifier. Filtering the MHz-range
signal with a ferrite ring before it reaches the amp would stop the subharmonics
being generated in the amplifier circuitry.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
On 2008-01-28, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
> Toby Newman wrote:
>> starting with the simple things like ferrite rings
> Again, that would do almost nothing for low frequencies.
> Graham
I don't know what's happening in the amplifier but it doesn't seem unfeasable
that a high-frequency noise on the mains (the LAN signal is up around 20-30MHz)
is causing audible subharmonics (~6KHz) in the amplifier. Filtering the MHz-range
signal with a ferrite ring before it reaches the amp would stop the subharmonics
being generated in the amplifier circuitry.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>more than that.
>
>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>
>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>
>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>
>Links:
>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>
>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
You have to hook up the amp and speakers and disconnect
all amplifier inputs. Does it go away .??
greg
In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>more than that.
>
>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>
>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>
>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>
>Links:
>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>
>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
You have to hook up the amp and speakers and disconnect
all amplifier inputs. Does it go away .??
greg
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
On 2008-01-28, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
> In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>more than that.
>>
>>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>>
>>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>>
>>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>>
>>Links:
>>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>>
>>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
> You have to hook up the amp and speakers and disconnect
> all amplifier inputs. Does it go away .??
It remains when there are no devices attached to the inputs,
and irrespective of the position of the source select knob. The volume
knob doesn't affect the level of the noise, presumably because the noise
comes across the mains wire into the amplifier stage which is downstream
in the signal path from the volume control.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
On 2008-01-28, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
> In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>more than that.
>>
>>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>>
>>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>>
>>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>>
>>Links:
>>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>>
>>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
> You have to hook up the amp and speakers and disconnect
> all amplifier inputs. Does it go away .??
It remains when there are no devices attached to the inputs,
and irrespective of the position of the source select knob. The volume
knob doesn't affect the level of the noise, presumably because the noise
comes across the mains wire into the amplifier stage which is downstream
in the signal path from the volume control.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
In article <slrnfpu1rd.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>On 2008-01-28, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
>> In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman
> <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>>>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>>>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>>>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>>>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>>>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>>>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>>>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>>more than that.
>>>
>>>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>>>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>>>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>>>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>>>
>>>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>>>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>>>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>>>
>>>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>>>
>>>Links:
>>>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>>>
>>>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>>
>> You have to hook up the amp and speakers and disconnect
>> all amplifier inputs. Does it go away .??
>
>It remains when there are no devices attached to the inputs,
>and irrespective of the position of the source select knob. The volume
>knob doesn't affect the level of the noise, presumably because the noise
>comes across the mains wire into the amplifier stage which is downstream
>in the signal path from the volume control.
>
How about pulling the plug. If the protection circuits don't actuate right away
most amps will continue to play for some time. if the noise goes away then
you know its associated with the line.
Sometimes you have to filter the speaker lines if they are picking up the signal.
This usually happens with local AM stations. A cap and resistor across the outputs is standard practice.
greg
In article <slrnfpu1rd.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>On 2008-01-28, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
>> In article <slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman
> <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>>>I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301 PowerLine HD
>>>Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce wires. I was very happy with
>>>the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050 amplifier yesterday
>>>and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s, it's picking
>>>up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching between a 6kHz and
>>>7kHz square wave. I guess the Marantz designers didn't anticipate anything
>>>but 50Hz hum on the power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>>more than that.
>>>
>>>The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector between the amp
>>>and the wall. The manufacturer says that these items must not be used
>>>alongside the Powerline device because they interfere with the network
>>>connection. I will try to use this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>>>
>>>If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some filtering inside,
>>>starting with the simple things like ferrite rings and then moving up to
>>>adding capacitors or a mains filter if that fails.
>>>
>>>Before I start I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and opinions.
>>>
>>>Links:
>>>The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>>>
>>>The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>>
>> You have to hook up the amp and speakers and disconnect
>> all amplifier inputs. Does it go away .??
>
>It remains when there are no devices attached to the inputs,
>and irrespective of the position of the source select knob. The volume
>knob doesn't affect the level of the noise, presumably because the noise
>comes across the mains wire into the amplifier stage which is downstream
>in the signal path from the volume control.
>
How about pulling the plug. If the protection circuits don't actuate right away
most amps will continue to play for some time. if the noise goes away then
you know its associated with the line.
Sometimes you have to filter the speaker lines if they are picking up the signal.
This usually happens with local AM stations. A cap and resistor across the outputs is standard practice.
greg
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
"Toby Newman" <google@asktoby,com > wrote in message
news:slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de
> I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301
> PowerLine HD Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce
> wires. I was very happy with
> the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050
> amplifier yesterday
> and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s,
> it's picking
> up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching
> between a 6kHz and 7kHz square wave.
There are other ways for noise to get into your system, besides the power
line.
It is quite possible taht a modern power amp or receiver would have the
identically same problem.
> I guess the Marantz
> designers didn't anticipate anything but 50Hz hum on the
> power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
> more than that.
Only a guess, and one that I would agree with the others - its a lower
probability.
> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector
> between the amp and the wall.
Why? This isn't about surges, it is about EMI. Surges are defined as
relatively long-term (i.e. milliseconds) increases in the voltage at the
input to your amplifier. There's nothing inside your LAN that can produce
surges that big. I'd bet that 5 volts is the largest voltage anyplace inside
your LAN equipment, and in terms of a power line, that's a nit. The surges
that a surge protector works against are dozens or hundreds or even
thousands of volts.
> The manufacturer says that these items must
> not be used alongside the Powerline device because they
> interfere with the network connection. I will try to use
> this shortcoming to my favour. :)
I suspect that they are worried that a surge protector would make additional
interference.
> If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some
> filtering inside, starting with the simple things like
> ferrite rings and then moving up to adding capacitors or
> a mains filter if that fails.
First thing I'd do is swap in a new cheap ($80) receiver - borrowed from a
friend or something. If it has the same problem, then look at the
possibility of interference pick up by the signal cables or other gear in
the system.
> Links:
> The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
The power transformer in equipment like this is a major barrier to power
line noise. It's got great response at 50-60 Hz and lousy high frequency
response.
> The LAN-over-mains equipment:
> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
Even the thought of this equipment is giving hams and other users of
RF-based equipment heart attacks. But its not about surges, its about RFI
and EMI.
If you want to filter out what your LAN is pumping into the power line, get
a power line filter, which may also have surge protection.
Here's some examples:
http :// www .e-sonic,com /aboutus/cat/S/surge%20suppressors.pdf
anything that says it has effective line filtering built-in.
The reason why everything on the page has surge protectors is that surge
protection is cheap to add. Good line filtering can cost a little money.
"Toby Newman" <google@asktoby,com > wrote in message
news:slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de
> I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301
> PowerLine HD Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce
> wires. I was very happy with
> the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050
> amplifier yesterday
> and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s,
> it's picking
> up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching
> between a 6kHz and 7kHz square wave.
There are other ways for noise to get into your system, besides the power
line.
It is quite possible taht a modern power amp or receiver would have the
identically same problem.
> I guess the Marantz
> designers didn't anticipate anything but 50Hz hum on the
> power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
> more than that.
Only a guess, and one that I would agree with the others - its a lower
probability.
> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector
> between the amp and the wall.
Why? This isn't about surges, it is about EMI. Surges are defined as
relatively long-term (i.e. milliseconds) increases in the voltage at the
input to your amplifier. There's nothing inside your LAN that can produce
surges that big. I'd bet that 5 volts is the largest voltage anyplace inside
your LAN equipment, and in terms of a power line, that's a nit. The surges
that a surge protector works against are dozens or hundreds or even
thousands of volts.
> The manufacturer says that these items must
> not be used alongside the Powerline device because they
> interfere with the network connection. I will try to use
> this shortcoming to my favour. :)
I suspect that they are worried that a surge protector would make additional
interference.
> If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some
> filtering inside, starting with the simple things like
> ferrite rings and then moving up to adding capacitors or
> a mains filter if that fails.
First thing I'd do is swap in a new cheap ($80) receiver - borrowed from a
friend or something. If it has the same problem, then look at the
possibility of interference pick up by the signal cables or other gear in
the system.
> Links:
> The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
The power transformer in equipment like this is a major barrier to power
line noise. It's got great response at 50-60 Hz and lousy high frequency
response.
> The LAN-over-mains equipment:
> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
Even the thought of this equipment is giving hams and other users of
RF-based equipment heart attacks. But its not about surges, its about RFI
and EMI.
If you want to filter out what your LAN is pumping into the power line, get
a power line filter, which may also have surge protection.
Here's some examples:
http :// www .e-sonic,com /aboutus/cat/S/surge%20suppressors.pdf
anything that says it has effective line filtering built-in.
The reason why everything on the page has surge protectors is that surge
protection is cheap to add. Good line filtering can cost a little money.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
news:naqdnWJ8vegMZQDanZ2dnUVZ_oaonZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> The power transformer in equipment like this is a major barrier to power
> line noise. It's got great response at 50-60 Hz and lousy high frequency
> response.
>
>> The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
I was thinking that a small, 1:1 isolation transformer for the Marantz might
get rid of the LAN noise.
Eisboch
"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote in message
news:naqdnWJ8vegMZQDanZ2dnUVZ_oaonZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> The power transformer in equipment like this is a major barrier to power
> line noise. It's got great response at 50-60 Hz and lousy high frequency
> response.
>
>> The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
I was thinking that a small, 1:1 isolation transformer for the Marantz might
get rid of the LAN noise.
Eisboch
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
On 2008-01-28, Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
> "Toby Newman" <google@asktoby,com > wrote in message
> news:slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de
>
>> I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301
>> PowerLine HD Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce
>> wires. I was very happy with
>> the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050
>> amplifier yesterday
>> and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s,
>> it's picking
>> up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching
>> between a 6kHz and 7kHz square wave.
>
> There are other ways for noise to get into your system, besides the power
> line.
>
> It is quite possible taht a modern power amp or receiver would have the
> identically same problem.
>
>> I guess the Marantz
>> designers didn't anticipate anything but 50Hz hum on the
>> power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>> more than that.
>
> Only a guess, and one that I would agree with the others - its a lower
> probability.
>
>> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector
>> between the amp and the wall.
>
> Why? This isn't about surges, it is about EMI. Surges are defined as
> relatively long-term (i.e. milliseconds) increases in the voltage at the
> input to your amplifier. There's nothing inside your LAN that can produce
> surges that big. I'd bet that 5 volts is the largest voltage anyplace inside
> your LAN equipment, and in terms of a power line, that's a nit. The surges
> that a surge protector works against are dozens or hundreds or even
> thousands of volts.
The reason I will try a surge protector first is because consumer surge
protectors also often contain filtering, and are more readily available than
a mains filter. This will enable me to verify if the noise is borne on the mains
cable rather than carried through the air. If I see an attenuation I'll know that
the mains cable is the culprit.
>> The manufacturer says that these items must
>> not be used alongside the Powerline device because they
>> interfere with the network connection. I will try to use
>> this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>
> I suspect that they are worried that a surge protector would make additional
> interference.
>
>> If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some
>> filtering inside, starting with the simple things like
>> ferrite rings and then moving up to adding capacitors or
>> a mains filter if that fails.
>
> First thing I'd do is swap in a new cheap ($80) receiver - borrowed from a
> friend or something. If it has the same problem, then look at the
> possibility of interference pick up by the signal cables or other gear in
> the system.
>
>> Links:
>> The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>
> The power transformer in equipment like this is a major barrier to power
> line noise. It's got great response at 50-60 Hz and lousy high frequency
> response.
That's interesting to know.
>> The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
> Even the thought of this equipment is giving hams and other users of
> RF-based equipment heart attacks. But its not about surges, its about RFI
> and EMI.
>
> If you want to filter out what your LAN is pumping into the power line, get
> a power line filter, which may also have surge protection.
>
> Here's some examples:
>
> http :// www .e-sonic,com /aboutus/cat/S/surge%20suppressors.pdf
>
> anything that says it has effective line filtering built-in.
>
> The reason why everything on the page has surge protectors is that surge
> protection is cheap to add. Good line filtering can cost a little money.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
On 2008-01-28, Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
> "Toby Newman" <google@asktoby,com > wrote in message
> news:slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de
>
>> I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301
>> PowerLine HD Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce
>> wires. I was very happy with
>> the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050
>> amplifier yesterday
>> and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s,
>> it's picking
>> up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching
>> between a 6kHz and 7kHz square wave.
>
> There are other ways for noise to get into your system, besides the power
> line.
>
> It is quite possible taht a modern power amp or receiver would have the
> identically same problem.
>
>> I guess the Marantz
>> designers didn't anticipate anything but 50Hz hum on the
>> power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>> more than that.
>
> Only a guess, and one that I would agree with the others - its a lower
> probability.
>
>> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector
>> between the amp and the wall.
>
> Why? This isn't about surges, it is about EMI. Surges are defined as
> relatively long-term (i.e. milliseconds) increases in the voltage at the
> input to your amplifier. There's nothing inside your LAN that can produce
> surges that big. I'd bet that 5 volts is the largest voltage anyplace inside
> your LAN equipment, and in terms of a power line, that's a nit. The surges
> that a surge protector works against are dozens or hundreds or even
> thousands of volts.
The reason I will try a surge protector first is because consumer surge
protectors also often contain filtering, and are more readily available than
a mains filter. This will enable me to verify if the noise is borne on the mains
cable rather than carried through the air. If I see an attenuation I'll know that
the mains cable is the culprit.
>> The manufacturer says that these items must
>> not be used alongside the Powerline device because they
>> interfere with the network connection. I will try to use
>> this shortcoming to my favour. :)
>
> I suspect that they are worried that a surge protector would make additional
> interference.
>
>> If that fails, I'm planning to pop the case and add some
>> filtering inside, starting with the simple things like
>> ferrite rings and then moving up to adding capacitors or
>> a mains filter if that fails.
>
> First thing I'd do is swap in a new cheap ($80) receiver - borrowed from a
> friend or something. If it has the same problem, then look at the
> possibility of interference pick up by the signal cables or other gear in
> the system.
>
>> Links:
>> The Marantz 1050 (showing internals)
>> http :// www .classic-audio,com /marantz/1050.html
>
> The power transformer in equipment like this is a major barrier to power
> line noise. It's got great response at 50-60 Hz and lousy high frequency
> response.
That's interesting to know.
>> The LAN-over-mains equipment:
>> http :// www .dlink,com /products/?sec=1&pid=533
>
> Even the thought of this equipment is giving hams and other users of
> RF-based equipment heart attacks. But its not about surges, its about RFI
> and EMI.
>
> If you want to filter out what your LAN is pumping into the power line, get
> a power line filter, which may also have surge protection.
>
> Here's some examples:
>
> http :// www .e-sonic,com /aboutus/cat/S/surge%20suppressors.pdf
>
> anything that says it has effective line filtering built-in.
>
> The reason why everything on the page has surge protectors is that surge
> protection is cheap to add. Good line filtering can cost a little money.
--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
In article <slrnfpu285.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>On 2008-01-28, Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
>> "Toby Newman" <google@asktoby,com > wrote in message
>> news:slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de
>>
>>> I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301
>>> PowerLine HD Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce
>>> wires. I was very happy with
>>> the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050
>>> amplifier yesterday
>>> and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s,
>>> it's picking
>>> up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching
>>> between a 6kHz and 7kHz square wave.
>>
>> There are other ways for noise to get into your system, besides the power
>> line.
>>
>> It is quite possible taht a modern power amp or receiver would have the
>> identically same problem.
>>
>>> I guess the Marantz
>>> designers didn't anticipate anything but 50Hz hum on the
>>> power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>> more than that.
>>
>> Only a guess, and one that I would agree with the others - its a lower
>> probability.
>>
>>> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector
>>> between the amp and the wall.
>>
>> Why? This isn't about surges, it is about EMI. Surges are defined as
>> relatively long-term (i.e. milliseconds) increases in the voltage at the
>> input to your amplifier. There's nothing inside your LAN that can produce
>> surges that big. I'd bet that 5 volts is the largest voltage anyplace inside
>> your LAN equipment, and in terms of a power line, that's a nit. The surges
>> that a surge protector works against are dozens or hundreds or even
>> thousands of volts.
>
>The reason I will try a surge protector first is because consumer surge
>protectors also often contain filtering, and are more readily available than
>a mains filter. This will enable me to verify if the noise is borne on the
> mains
>cable rather than carried through the air. If I see an attenuation I'll know
> that
>the mains cable is the culprit.
Most places like The Home Depot or Radio Shack will have supressors with RFI filtering, just get one.
greg
In article <slrnfpu285.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de>, Toby Newman <google@asktoby,com > wrote:
>On 2008-01-28, Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop,com > wrote:
>> "Toby Newman" <google@asktoby,com > wrote in message
>> news:slrnfprddo.6kv.google@ID-171443.user.uni-berlin.de
>>
>>> I've run my home LAN over mains using DLink's DHP-301
>>> PowerLine HD Network Starter Kit in a bid to reduce
>>> wires. I was very happy with
>>> the new system until I turned on my Marantz 1050
>>> amplifier yesterday
>>> and found that, being a piece of hardware from the 70s,
>>> it's picking
>>> up the noise of the LAN. Sounds like rapid switching
>>> between a 6kHz and 7kHz square wave.
>>
>> There are other ways for noise to get into your system, besides the power
>> line.
>>
>> It is quite possible taht a modern power amp or receiver would have the
>> identically same problem.
>>
>>> I guess the Marantz
>>> designers didn't anticipate anything but 50Hz hum on the
>>> power supply and didn't see fit to filter for anything
>>> more than that.
>>
>> Only a guess, and one that I would agree with the others - its a lower
>> probability.
>>
>>> The first think I'll try is putting a surge protector
>>> between the amp and the wall.
>>
>> Why? This isn't about surges, it is about EMI. Surges are defined as
>> relatively long-term (i.e. milliseconds) increases in the voltage at the
>> input to your amplifier. There's nothing inside your LAN that can produce
>> surges that big. I'd bet that 5 volts is the largest voltage anyplace inside
>> your LAN equipment, and in terms of a power line, that's a nit. The surges
>> that a surge protector works against are dozens or hundreds or even
>> thousands of volts.
>
>The reason I will try a surge protector first is because consumer surge
>protectors also often contain filtering, and are more readily available than
>a mains filter. This will enable me to verify if the noise is borne on the
> mains
>cable rather than carried through the air. If I see an attenuation I'll know
> that
>the mains cable is the culprit.
Most places like The Home Depot or Radio Shack will have supressors with RFI filtering, just get one.
greg
Re: Modify Marantz 1050 amp to suppress mains noise
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:24:36 GMT, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
>>> thousands of volts.
>>
>>The reason I will try a surge protector first is because consumer surge
>>protectors also often contain filtering, and are more readily available than
>>a mains filter. This will enable me to verify if the noise is borne on the
>> mains
>>cable rather than carried through the air. If I see an attenuation I'll know
>> that
>>the mains cable is the culprit.
>Most places like The Home Depot or Radio Shack will have supressors with
>RFI filtering, just get one.
Neither HD or RS sell any power strips with RFI filtering. All they have is
cheap crap that use only transorbs. Nothing the sell is as good as a $5
single plug surge protector with a $5 outlet strip plugged in it. If you pay
more than $10, you're just pissing your money away.
If you want RFI filtering, tripp-lite makes some great multibank filtered
outlet boxes. For example:
http :// www .tripplite,com /shared/PDF/spec/tlspec_3613.pdf
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:24:36 GMT, GregS <zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com > wrote:
>>> thousands of volts.
>>
>>The reason I will try a surge protector first is because consumer surge
>>protectors also often contain filtering, and are more readily available than
>>a mains filter. This will enable me to verify if the noise is borne on the
>> mains
>>cable rather than carried through the air. If I see an attenuation I'll know
>> that
>>the mains cable is the culprit.
>Most places like The Home Depot or Radio Shack will have supressors with
>RFI filtering, just get one.
Neither HD or RS sell any power strips with RFI filtering. All they have is
cheap crap that use only transorbs. Nothing the sell is as good as a $5
single plug surge protector with a $5 outlet strip plugged in it. If you pay
more than $10, you're just pissing your money away.
If you want RFI filtering, tripp-lite makes some great multibank filtered
outlet boxes. For example:
http :// www .tripplite,com /shared/PDF/spec/tlspec_3613.pdf
