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Best filter caps for amplifier
Best filter caps for amplifier
I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
MC GX mods).
Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
the bridge are only 12 amps.
I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
this. Suggestions?
Wink
I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
MC GX mods).
Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
the bridge are only 12 amps.
I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
this. Suggestions?
Wink
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
In article <h471q3993b1rrnact6ro768t1b39m5e5si@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
>MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
>200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
>stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
>MC GX mods).
>
>Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
>like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
>
>I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
>the bridge are only 12 amps.
>
>I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
>this. Suggestions?
>Wink
If the caps sound dead, I think you need a better circuit.
If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
Using one type of cap might be dumb. You can always parallel different
kinds and different capacities, but don't use crimps, and use star configuration.
greg
In article <h471q3993b1rrnact6ro768t1b39m5e5si@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
>MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
>200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
>stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
>MC GX mods).
>
>Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
>like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
>
>I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
>the bridge are only 12 amps.
>
>I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
>this. Suggestions?
>Wink
If the caps sound dead, I think you need a better circuit.
If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
Using one type of cap might be dumb. You can always parallel different
kinds and different capacities, but don't use crimps, and use star configuration.
greg
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
GregS wrote:
> If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
NO. Diodes are rated according to the average DC current passing through them which
isn't goping to change. VERY large caps *might* require a larger diode to deal with
the peak charge current though.
Graham
GregS wrote:
> If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
NO. Diodes are rated according to the average DC current passing through them which
isn't goping to change. VERY large caps *might* require a larger diode to deal with
the peak charge current though.
Graham
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
In article <47A22861.F71CBB25@hotmail,com >, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
>
>
>GregS wrote:
>
>> If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
>
>NO. Diodes are rated according to the average DC current passing through them
> which
>isn't goping to change. VERY large caps *might* require a larger diode to deal
> with
>the peak charge current though.
>
>Graham
I am figuring that the average drain is only going to be 1/2 cycle of the AC line,
so the average automatically gets cut in half.
greg
In article <47A22861.F71CBB25@hotmail,com >, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
>
>
>GregS wrote:
>
>> If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
>
>NO. Diodes are rated according to the average DC current passing through them
> which
>isn't goping to change. VERY large caps *might* require a larger diode to deal
> with
>the peak charge current though.
>
>Graham
I am figuring that the average drain is only going to be 1/2 cycle of the AC line,
so the average automatically gets cut in half.
greg
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
GregS wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
> >GregS wrote:
> >
> >> If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
> >
> >NO. Diodes are rated according to the average DC current passing through them
> > which isn't goping to change. VERY large caps *might* require a larger diode to deal
> > with the peak charge current though.
> >
> >Graham
>
> I am figuring that the average drain is only going to be 1/2 cycle of the AC line,
Uh ? You're talking nonsense. Power supply caps recharge in about 2.5ms at twice the AC line
frequency.
> so the average automatically gets cut in half.
I haven't a clue what you mean. 'Figuring' is not how to do electronics design. OTOH I can TELL you
what will happen.
Graham
GregS wrote:
> Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail,com > wrote:
> >GregS wrote:
> >
> >> If the diodes are 12 amps, then the bridge is going to be up to 24 amps.
> >
> >NO. Diodes are rated according to the average DC current passing through them
> > which isn't goping to change. VERY large caps *might* require a larger diode to deal
> > with the peak charge current though.
> >
> >Graham
>
> I am figuring that the average drain is only going to be 1/2 cycle of the AC line,
Uh ? You're talking nonsense. Power supply caps recharge in about 2.5ms at twice the AC line
frequency.
> so the average automatically gets cut in half.
I haven't a clue what you mean. 'Figuring' is not how to do electronics design. OTOH I can TELL you
what will happen.
Graham
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
Wink wrote:
> I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
> MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
> 200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
> stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
> MC GX mods).
>
> Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
> like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
>
> I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
> the bridge are only 12 amps.
>
> I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
> this. Suggestions?
The power supply caps in a solid state amp don't affect the sound the way
you think they do.
With the smaller caps, the amp would have had more 'dynamic power' but
less continuous power. It's about how the PSU voltage 'sags' on load and
nothing to do with the brand of cap.
Graham
Wink wrote:
> I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
> MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
> 200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
> stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
> MC GX mods).
>
> Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
> like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
>
> I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
> the bridge are only 12 amps.
>
> I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
> this. Suggestions?
The power supply caps in a solid state amp don't affect the sound the way
you think they do.
With the smaller caps, the amp would have had more 'dynamic power' but
less continuous power. It's about how the PSU voltage 'sags' on load and
nothing to do with the brand of cap.
Graham
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
"Wink" <x@x,net > wrote in message
news:h471q3993b1rrnact6ro768t1b39m5e5si@4ax,com
> I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D
> boards. I've used MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd
> blue electrolytics in my Hafler 200 and 220 and feel they
> are sonically inferior to the original stock 10,000 ufd
> caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old MC GX
> mods).
Dead sounding can mean anything you want. How about specifying the problem
in terms that us tech folk can understand, like high distortion or bad
frequency response?
> Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway.
They were sucker plays.
> I'm thinking
> of something like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc.
> Mallory, Panasonic?
First, a clear statement of the problem.
> I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill.
Probably.
> The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in the bridge are only 12 amps.
Peak inrush current is dependent on things like the DCR of the power
transformer secondaries.
> I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't
> yield much on this. Suggestions?
Power amp power supply design pretty much follows the usual rules.
http :// sound.westhost,com /power-supplies.htm
"Wink" <x@x,net > wrote in message
news:h471q3993b1rrnact6ro768t1b39m5e5si@4ax,com
> I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D
> boards. I've used MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd
> blue electrolytics in my Hafler 200 and 220 and feel they
> are sonically inferior to the original stock 10,000 ufd
> caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old MC GX
> mods).
Dead sounding can mean anything you want. How about specifying the problem
in terms that us tech folk can understand, like high distortion or bad
frequency response?
> Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway.
They were sucker plays.
> I'm thinking
> of something like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc.
> Mallory, Panasonic?
First, a clear statement of the problem.
> I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill.
Probably.
> The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in the bridge are only 12 amps.
Peak inrush current is dependent on things like the DCR of the power
transformer secondaries.
> I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't
> yield much on this. Suggestions?
Power amp power supply design pretty much follows the usual rules.
http :// sound.westhost,com /power-supplies.htm
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
that was that.
I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
Wink
Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
that was that.
I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
Wink
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
In article <c4veq3dji3jr9jr6loml34dhvkotq2mm91@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
>information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>
>His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>
>It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
>in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
>ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>
>In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
>that was that.
>
>I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
>the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
I still am using Sprague's Atom Lytic as replacements. I have an old stock, got
to be over 25 years old. They still seem OK.
greg
In article <c4veq3dji3jr9jr6loml34dhvkotq2mm91@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
>information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>
>His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>
>It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
>in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
>ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>
>In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
>that was that.
>
>I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
>the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
I still am using Sprague's Atom Lytic as replacements. I have an old stock, got
to be over 25 years old. They still seem OK.
greg
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:21:32 GMT, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com (GregS)
wrote:
>In article <c4veq3dji3jr9jr6loml34dhvkotq2mm91@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>>Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
>>information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>>
>>His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>>
>>It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
>>in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
>>ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>>
>>In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
>>that was that.
>>
>>I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
>>the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
>
>I still am using Sprague's Atom Lytic as replacements. I have an old stock, got
>to be over 25 years old. They still seem OK.
>
>greg
Interesting Greg. NOS, I assume. Do you just drop them in an fire it
up, or variac it?
Wink
On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:21:32 GMT, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com (GregS)
wrote:
>In article <c4veq3dji3jr9jr6loml34dhvkotq2mm91@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>>Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
>>information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>>
>>His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>>
>>It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
>>in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
>>ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>>
>>In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
>>that was that.
>>
>>I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
>>the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
>
>I still am using Sprague's Atom Lytic as replacements. I have an old stock, got
>to be over 25 years old. They still seem OK.
>
>greg
Interesting Greg. NOS, I assume. Do you just drop them in an fire it
up, or variac it?
Wink
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
In article <m53fq3l21urvsa8v1vlr3l8sj50eo3oiq8@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:21:32 GMT, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com (GregS)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <c4veq3dji3jr9jr6loml34dhvkotq2mm91@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>>>Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
>>>information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>>>
>>>His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>>>
>>>It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
>>>in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
>>>ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>>>
>>>In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
>>>that was that.
>>>
>>>I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
>>>the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
>>
>>I still am using Sprague's Atom Lytic as replacements. I have an old stock,
> got
>>to be over 25 years old. They still seem OK.
>>
>>greg
>Interesting Greg. NOS, I assume. Do you just drop them in an fire it
>up, or variac it?
>Wink
>
I just used one in a Heath CRT monitor, and I brought it up slow just to be sure.
The orginal had a 300 volt at 4.7uF and the replacement was 450 vdc.
greg
In article <m53fq3l21urvsa8v1vlr3l8sj50eo3oiq8@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:21:32 GMT, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous,com (GregS)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <c4veq3dji3jr9jr6loml34dhvkotq2mm91@4ax,com >, Wink <x@x,net > wrote:
>>>Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
>>>information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>>>
>>>His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>>>
>>>It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
>>>in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
>>>ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>>>
>>>In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
>>>that was that.
>>>
>>>I did do the rather complex Musical Concepts mods to my 220 and 200 in
>>>the later 80s. Stunning how much I've forgotten and must re-learn.
>>
>>I still am using Sprague's Atom Lytic as replacements. I have an old stock,
> got
>>to be over 25 years old. They still seem OK.
>>
>>greg
>Interesting Greg. NOS, I assume. Do you just drop them in an fire it
>up, or variac it?
>Wink
>
I just used one in a Heath CRT monitor, and I brought it up slow just to be sure.
The orginal had a 300 volt at 4.7uF and the replacement was 450 vdc.
greg
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
Wink wrote:
> Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
> information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>
> His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>
> It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
> in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
> ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>
> In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
> that was that.
Actually, good designers also used metal oxide resistors. Even back then.
Graham
Wink wrote:
> Thanks to all for your responses. ESP has been an excellent
> information source. Illuminating cap discussion.
>
> His 101 amp project looks interesting. Perhaps my next project.
>
> It's been 30+ years since I've seriously messed with amps -- as a teen
> in the 70s -- Tubes. Scott, Bogen, Fisher ... also got an extra class
> ham license. Heathkit DX-100 transmitter and Hammerlund receiver.
>
> In those days you used Sprague cans and carbon resistors et al and
> that was that.
Actually, good designers also used metal oxide resistors. Even back then.
Graham
Re: Best filter caps for amplifier
On Jan 30, 10:27 am, Wink <x...@x,net > wrote:
> I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
> MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
> 200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
> stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
> MC GX mods).
>
> Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
> like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
>
> I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
> the bridge are only 12 amps.
>
> I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
> this. Suggestions?
> Wink
compare the ripple current on the two caps, it could be the new ones
you are using may not have the ripple delivery the original ones did.
If they are not computer grade caps, then likely they don't have a
similar ripple capacity.
John
On Jan 30, 10:27 am, Wink <x...@x,net > wrote:
> I'm building monoblocks using Musical Concepts PA-3D boards. I've used
> MC's LC-200 (Chemi-Con) 29,000 ufd blue electrolytics in my Hafler
> 200 and 220 and feel they are sonically inferior to the original
> stock 10,000 ufd caps. Dead sounding. (The 220 and 200 have the old
> MC GX mods).
>
> Black Gates are gone, too expensive anyway. I'm thinking of something
> like computer grade caps from Mouser, etc. Mallory, Panasonic?
>
> I also wonder if 29k ufd is overkill. The Ixys rectifiers I'm using in
> the bridge are only 12 amps.
>
> I've done a ton of Googling.....DIYAudio,com doesn't yield much on
> this. Suggestions?
> Wink
compare the ripple current on the two caps, it could be the new ones
you are using may not have the ripple delivery the original ones did.
If they are not computer grade caps, then likely they don't have a
similar ripple capacity.
John
