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Post Subject:
Remote Power Supply Connection
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
BretLudwig wrote:
>
> No, if you DIY you ARE designing for yourself. That's why DIY can be
> superior, you don't have to accomodate all possible variations and cases.
> If you do you might as well buy factory made.
>
> Outboard PS is the standard in tube serious RF gear, pro and amateur.
> Look carefully at Collins S-Line. The Measurements 59 grid dipper too.
>
> That said you can "punk out" like manley did on their dual chassis
> monoblocks-rigidly connect them with bars and run wiring internally. But
> why when you don't have to?
>
> --
> Message posted using * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /group/rec.audio.tubes/
> More information at * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /faq.html
I will offer my client here the option of a stand on which to
place his 845 amps so thay are at least 400mm off the floor so reaching
the on switch
is OK.
The separate PSU can be fixed into the bottom of the stands.
But if not, its OK.
PSU can be on the floor, and amps can be on a usual common 750mm high
table.
I have 12 wires from PSU to amp. There are two mobile crane cables with
5 wires within each with
heavy double insulation and rated for 450V 3 phase power at 15 amps per
wire.
the other two wires are inside a normal heavy duty 2 way mains cable.
The pair of octal plugs are set up so -600V is in one plug, +640V in the
other.
16 conectors are available in each channel for the 12 wanted wires.
I searched, but could not find anything better than octals with 5 amp x
1,000 volt ratings.
Standard 5 way 415V ac 3 phase plugs and sockets are just way too
excessively
large for amplifier connectors.
The PSU has a 5VA auxiliary PSU within which turns on when the mains
switch at the wall is turned on.
The amps have mains switches that turn 12Vdc only to turn on relays in
the PSU that
turn on the mains to the large PTs.
The PSU cannot turn on if the active protection circit isn't operational
or someone plugs the wrong plug into the wrong socket, or
plugs only one plug in or none at all.
Diodes prevent high B+ rail voltages appearing on pins of the cable
plugs
if they are yanked out of the PSU and grabbed.
Under normal operation, rails will fall to safe levels within 10
seconds.
I think my cabling arrangement is as safe as i need it to be and will
survive
future transfer from one audio enthusiast to another without killing any
of them.
The laws against umbilical cables are due to the woeful attempts at
cabling some manfacturers
have presented to the public.
The slightest fall of PSU off a bench can stretch cables badly, maybe
exposing bare live wires,
so the cables have to withstand such falls.
This means that a cable should preferably become disconnected in a fall
with everything
turning itself off.
If any of my customers have a dog capable and interested in chewing nice
thick chewey plastic wires
behind the hi-fi, then one day he may perhaps be persuaded to give up
the habit
when finally, after considerable knawing, a damp tooth hits 600V.
But if he'd started chewing mains cabling, he'd already be wized up
about what wiring tastes like.
Patrick Turner.
BretLudwig wrote:
>
> No, if you DIY you ARE designing for yourself. That's why DIY can be
> superior, you don't have to accomodate all possible variations and cases.
> If you do you might as well buy factory made.
>
> Outboard PS is the standard in tube serious RF gear, pro and amateur.
> Look carefully at Collins S-Line. The Measurements 59 grid dipper too.
>
> That said you can "punk out" like manley did on their dual chassis
> monoblocks-rigidly connect them with bars and run wiring internally. But
> why when you don't have to?
>
> --
> Message posted using * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /group/rec.audio.tubes/
> More information at * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /faq.html
I will offer my client here the option of a stand on which to
place his 845 amps so thay are at least 400mm off the floor so reaching
the on switch
is OK.
The separate PSU can be fixed into the bottom of the stands.
But if not, its OK.
PSU can be on the floor, and amps can be on a usual common 750mm high
table.
I have 12 wires from PSU to amp. There are two mobile crane cables with
5 wires within each with
heavy double insulation and rated for 450V 3 phase power at 15 amps per
wire.
the other two wires are inside a normal heavy duty 2 way mains cable.
The pair of octal plugs are set up so -600V is in one plug, +640V in the
other.
16 conectors are available in each channel for the 12 wanted wires.
I searched, but could not find anything better than octals with 5 amp x
1,000 volt ratings.
Standard 5 way 415V ac 3 phase plugs and sockets are just way too
excessively
large for amplifier connectors.
The PSU has a 5VA auxiliary PSU within which turns on when the mains
switch at the wall is turned on.
The amps have mains switches that turn 12Vdc only to turn on relays in
the PSU that
turn on the mains to the large PTs.
The PSU cannot turn on if the active protection circit isn't operational
or someone plugs the wrong plug into the wrong socket, or
plugs only one plug in or none at all.
Diodes prevent high B+ rail voltages appearing on pins of the cable
plugs
if they are yanked out of the PSU and grabbed.
Under normal operation, rails will fall to safe levels within 10
seconds.
I think my cabling arrangement is as safe as i need it to be and will
survive
future transfer from one audio enthusiast to another without killing any
of them.
The laws against umbilical cables are due to the woeful attempts at
cabling some manfacturers
have presented to the public.
The slightest fall of PSU off a bench can stretch cables badly, maybe
exposing bare live wires,
so the cables have to withstand such falls.
This means that a cable should preferably become disconnected in a fall
with everything
turning itself off.
If any of my customers have a dog capable and interested in chewing nice
thick chewey plastic wires
behind the hi-fi, then one day he may perhaps be persuaded to give up
the habit
when finally, after considerable knawing, a damp tooth hits 600V.
But if he'd started chewing mains cabling, he'd already be wized up
about what wiring tastes like.
Patrick Turner.
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
Patrick Turner wrote:
>
...
> I searched, but could not find anything better than octals with 5 amp x
> 1,000 volt ratings.
> Standard 5 way 415V ac 3 phase plugs and sockets are just way too
> excessively
> large for amplifier connectors.
>
Even if they aren't too big, I would never use "mains" connectors for
anything else. Reason: some dumb **** will surely plug it straight into
mains, one day.
"Well, it was a 3PH, 415V connector, so that's wot I plugged it into..."
Kaboom!
Patrick Turner wrote:
>
...
> I searched, but could not find anything better than octals with 5 amp x
> 1,000 volt ratings.
> Standard 5 way 415V ac 3 phase plugs and sockets are just way too
> excessively
> large for amplifier connectors.
>
Even if they aren't too big, I would never use "mains" connectors for
anything else. Reason: some dumb **** will surely plug it straight into
mains, one day.
"Well, it was a 3PH, 415V connector, so that's wot I plugged it into..."
Kaboom!
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
>>"Patrick Turner wrote:
>
...
> I searched, but could not find anything better than octals with 5 amp x
> 1,000 volt ratings.
> Standard 5 way 415V ac 3 phase plugs and sockets are just way too
> excessively
> large for amplifier connectors.
>
Even if they aren't too big, I would never use "mains" connectors for
anything else. Reason: some dumb **** will surely plug it straight into
mains, one day.
"Well, it was a 3PH, 415V connector, so that's wot I plugged it into..."
Kaboom!"<<
Very very very true. NEVER use mains, XLR, Speakon, or common RF
connectors for power. Never never never.
((That said.. . com mercial mixer boards and theatrical lighting panels DO
use BNCs for mounting and powering small gooseneck lights. But it's 6 or
12 volt DC, current limited, and besides, let it be their bad practice and
not yours. Bret.))
GM Weatherpak may be used in current limited apps up to some voltage well
within the realm of small signal B+ voltages, as is done on GM common rail
diesel applications. Cannon plugs (Cannon makes a lot of stuff but I mean
the standard aviation and industrial line generally known as thus) also
are rated for moderate HV in some cases.
--
Message posted using * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /group/rec.audio.tubes/
More information at * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /faq.html
>>"Patrick Turner wrote:
>
...
> I searched, but could not find anything better than octals with 5 amp x
> 1,000 volt ratings.
> Standard 5 way 415V ac 3 phase plugs and sockets are just way too
> excessively
> large for amplifier connectors.
>
Even if they aren't too big, I would never use "mains" connectors for
anything else. Reason: some dumb **** will surely plug it straight into
mains, one day.
"Well, it was a 3PH, 415V connector, so that's wot I plugged it into..."
Kaboom!"<<
Very very very true. NEVER use mains, XLR, Speakon, or common RF
connectors for power. Never never never.
((That said.. . com mercial mixer boards and theatrical lighting panels DO
use BNCs for mounting and powering small gooseneck lights. But it's 6 or
12 volt DC, current limited, and besides, let it be their bad practice and
not yours. Bret.))
GM Weatherpak may be used in current limited apps up to some voltage well
within the realm of small signal B+ voltages, as is done on GM common rail
diesel applications. Cannon plugs (Cannon makes a lot of stuff but I mean
the standard aviation and industrial line generally known as thus) also
are rated for moderate HV in some cases.
--
Message posted using * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /group/rec.audio.tubes/
More information at * w w w .talkaboutaudio . com /faq.html
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
West wrote:
>
> I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so I'd
> like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with old
> and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But what
> is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2
> grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my mind.
> A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll ask.
> All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
>
> Cordially,
> west
I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
fixed
way of terninating umbilical cables.
Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
there
isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
Go to the bottom of the page at
* w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
Patrick Turner.
West wrote:
>
> I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so I'd
> like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with old
> and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But what
> is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2
> grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my mind.
> A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll ask.
> All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
>
> Cordially,
> west
I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
fixed
way of terninating umbilical cables.
Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
there
isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
Go to the bottom of the page at
* w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
Patrick Turner.
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:482AE4E2.FFC2B37D@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
> fixed
> way of terninating umbilical cables.
Agreed. They were good.
> Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
> there
> isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
The reason it seems is that one can pull the plug out partly
and touch the live pins on the cable connector.........
>
> * w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
......except in the way that you have shielded them.
Good solution! I have seen the same thing done using
a black plastic capacitor clip.
Regards
Iain
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:482AE4E2.FFC2B37D@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
> fixed
> way of terninating umbilical cables.
Agreed. They were good.
> Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
> there
> isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
The reason it seems is that one can pull the plug out partly
and touch the live pins on the cable connector.........
>
> * w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
......except in the way that you have shielded them.
Good solution! I have seen the same thing done using
a black plastic capacitor clip.
Regards
Iain
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
In article <X6GWj.943$_03.267@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi>,
"Iain Churches" <IainNG@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:482AE4E2.FFC2B37D@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
> > fixed
> > way of terninating umbilical cables.
>
> Agreed. They were good.
>
> > Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
> > there
> > isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
>
> The reason it seems is that one can pull the plug out partly
> and touch the live pins on the cable connector.........
> >
> > * w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
>
>
> ......except in the way that you have shielded them.
> Good solution! I have seen the same thing done using
> a black plastic capacitor clip.
And then there is the Acoustical AM-II tuner which was powered by an
umbilical from the preamp, but the B return/ground was carried only
through the audio output cable with an RCA phono plug. Pull the audio
lead out of the preamp and you have full B+ between the tuner cahssis
and ground, as well as between the shell of the RCA connecter and RCA
socket, Ouch!
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, * fmamradios . com /
In article <X6GWj.943$_03.267@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi>,
"Iain Churches" <IainNG@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:482AE4E2.FFC2B37D@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
> > fixed
> > way of terninating umbilical cables.
>
> Agreed. They were good.
>
> > Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
> > there
> > isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
>
> The reason it seems is that one can pull the plug out partly
> and touch the live pins on the cable connector.........
> >
> > * w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
>
>
> ......except in the way that you have shielded them.
> Good solution! I have seen the same thing done using
> a black plastic capacitor clip.
And then there is the Acoustical AM-II tuner which was powered by an
umbilical from the preamp, but the B return/ground was carried only
through the audio output cable with an RCA phono plug. Pull the audio
lead out of the preamp and you have full B+ between the tuner cahssis
and ground, as well as between the shell of the RCA connecter and RCA
socket, Ouch!
Regards,
John Byrns
--
Surf my web pages at, * fmamradios . com /
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:482AE4E2.FFC2B37D@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
> > fixed
> > way of terninating umbilical cables.
>
> Agreed. They were good.
>
> > Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
> > there
> > isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
>
> The reason it seems is that one can pull the plug out partly
> and touch the live pins on the cable connector.........
> >
> > * w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
>
> ......except in the way that you have shielded them.
> Good solution! I have seen the same thing done using
> a black plastic capacitor clip.
>
> Regards
> Iain
It would be a rare occasion when cables were not plugged in properly
because the amp won't work properly,
but with flanges and winged machine screws to screw down the plug,
it would ensure connection, like the way a monitor plugs into a PC box
at the rear.
The danger is when a plug is removed from a PSU and some idiot
immediately
grabs the pins , therefore touching pins connected to
charged up capacitor within the amp and an earthy pin. These charge
voltages take time to
sag down to safe low levels.
But it can be a very quick time if all you have is say 2uF of plastic
caps within the amp
chassis for the B+/B- rails and then have all the large electros and
chokes in the PSU unit.
The 2uF will shunnt the inductance of 2 mtres of cable length from amp
OPT CT to PSU
where the thousands of uF lurk to be a lowZ voltage source at LF.
My 300 watters will incorporate this safety improvement in future
because there is spare room inside
the PSU enclosures. ( Not much though because there is a huge PT and a
large choke... )
The 845 amps have considerable C in the amp because of the room
available and discharge due to
anode current rapidly pulls down the +/- 600V rails, but once the
cathodes of 845 go cold from no supply, the pull down effect
reduces before the rails have come down to safe levels.
So I have put diodes on +/- 600V pins inside the amp, so only backwards
leakage
current through the diodes can flow.
However, there are 4 pins in one octal plug for two floating ac supplies
which are biased at the 845 cathode
voltage at -450V approx. Diodes cannot be used to stop back flow.
Dificult to explain here,
so I have to use some relay switched cap discharge resistances to
discharge the
offending voltages.
I will probably settle for a screw and plate to clamp the plugs into the
psu, and if that screw isn't
fully wound in the psu cannot be turned on due to a pressurer switch
located where the screw is.
So once someone tries to unscrew the cable plug clamps, the psu will
turn off,
and voltages will sag before they can fully turn the clamp screw out to
pull the plugs out.
One has to be practical, and place obstacles which act like padded walls
in the way of idiots.
Laws, signs and warnings don't do much to save lives, judging by the
toll reported daily.
Patrick Turner.
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:482AE4E2.FFC2B37D@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > I still find ordinary octal sockets are the most reliable and easily
> > fixed
> > way of terninating umbilical cables.
>
> Agreed. They were good.
>
> > Ilegal now in most places, but then if you do it right for yourself
> > there
> > isn't any more danger than a normal mains cable wire.
>
> The reason it seems is that one can pull the plug out partly
> and touch the live pins on the cable connector.........
> >
> > * w w w .turneraudio . com .au/300w-amp-images.html
>
> ......except in the way that you have shielded them.
> Good solution! I have seen the same thing done using
> a black plastic capacitor clip.
>
> Regards
> Iain
It would be a rare occasion when cables were not plugged in properly
because the amp won't work properly,
but with flanges and winged machine screws to screw down the plug,
it would ensure connection, like the way a monitor plugs into a PC box
at the rear.
The danger is when a plug is removed from a PSU and some idiot
immediately
grabs the pins , therefore touching pins connected to
charged up capacitor within the amp and an earthy pin. These charge
voltages take time to
sag down to safe low levels.
But it can be a very quick time if all you have is say 2uF of plastic
caps within the amp
chassis for the B+/B- rails and then have all the large electros and
chokes in the PSU unit.
The 2uF will shunnt the inductance of 2 mtres of cable length from amp
OPT CT to PSU
where the thousands of uF lurk to be a lowZ voltage source at LF.
My 300 watters will incorporate this safety improvement in future
because there is spare room inside
the PSU enclosures. ( Not much though because there is a huge PT and a
large choke... )
The 845 amps have considerable C in the amp because of the room
available and discharge due to
anode current rapidly pulls down the +/- 600V rails, but once the
cathodes of 845 go cold from no supply, the pull down effect
reduces before the rails have come down to safe levels.
So I have put diodes on +/- 600V pins inside the amp, so only backwards
leakage
current through the diodes can flow.
However, there are 4 pins in one octal plug for two floating ac supplies
which are biased at the 845 cathode
voltage at -450V approx. Diodes cannot be used to stop back flow.
Dificult to explain here,
so I have to use some relay switched cap discharge resistances to
discharge the
offending voltages.
I will probably settle for a screw and plate to clamp the plugs into the
psu, and if that screw isn't
fully wound in the psu cannot be turned on due to a pressurer switch
located where the screw is.
So once someone tries to unscrew the cable plug clamps, the psu will
turn off,
and voltages will sag before they can fully turn the clamp screw out to
pull the plugs out.
One has to be practical, and place obstacles which act like padded walls
in the way of idiots.
Laws, signs and warnings don't do much to save lives, judging by the
toll reported daily.
Patrick Turner.
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
"West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05
> I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks
> kinda nifty, so I'd like to use handsome and modern
> connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with old and large
> but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles.
> But what is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and
> receptacle for today's audio equipment? The connections
> are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2 grounds. I
> might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change
> my mind. A name and part number may be asking too much,
> but what the heck, I'll ask. All ideas and comments most
> welcomed. Thank you.
I worked on a radar built by Raytheon that used a modular high voltage power
supply running at up to 22 KV at several amps. Some of the connectors were
outdoors. Fairly robust, I think. These connectors used silicon rubber
insulation, stainless steel pins, and a threaded, gasketed fastener. I
think that they were stock items. Since the smallest of them were several
inches in diameter, you might find them to be an impressive addition to your
project.
"West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05
> I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks
> kinda nifty, so I'd like to use handsome and modern
> connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with old and large
> but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles.
> But what is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and
> receptacle for today's audio equipment? The connections
> are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2 grounds. I
> might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change
> my mind. A name and part number may be asking too much,
> but what the heck, I'll ask. All ideas and comments most
> welcomed. Thank you.
I worked on a radar built by Raytheon that used a modular high voltage power
supply running at up to 22 KV at several amps. Some of the connectors were
outdoors. Fairly robust, I think. These connectors used silicon rubber
insulation, stainless steel pins, and a threaded, gasketed fastener. I
think that they were stock items. Since the smallest of them were several
inches in diameter, you might find them to be an impressive addition to your
project.
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
"West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
> I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
> I'd
> like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with
> old
> and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
> what
> is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2
> grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
> mind.
> A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
> ask.
> All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
>
> Cordially,
> west
>
This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
and much to think about.
In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
posed his question has not replied to a single post in
reply.
Iain
"West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
> I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
> I'd
> like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with
> old
> and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
> what
> is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2
> grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
> mind.
> A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
> ask.
> All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
>
> Cordially,
> west
>
This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
and much to think about.
In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
posed his question has not replied to a single post in
reply.
Iain
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
> news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
> > I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
> > I'd
> > like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with
> > old
> > and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
> > what
> > is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> > audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2
> > grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
> > mind.
> > A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
> > ask.
> > All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > west
> >
>
> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
> and much to think about.
>
> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
>
> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
> reply.
>
> Iain
West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
here at r.a.t.
He's a question asker, and probably may not be terribly
prolific in his amplifer productions.
Patrick Turner.
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
> news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
> > I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
> > I'd
> > like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar with
> > old
> > and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
> > what
> > is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> > audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias, and 2
> > grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
> > mind.
> > A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
> > ask.
> > All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > west
> >
>
> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
> and much to think about.
>
> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
>
> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
> reply.
>
> Iain
West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
here at r.a.t.
He's a question asker, and probably may not be terribly
prolific in his amplifer productions.
Patrick Turner.
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:48399FBE.11DA6A@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> Iain Churches wrote:
>>
>> "West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
>> news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
>> > I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
>> > I'd
>> > like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar
>> > with
>> > old
>> > and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
>> > what
>> > is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
>> > audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias,
>> > and 2
>> > grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
>> > mind.
>> > A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
>> > ask.
>> > All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
>> >
>> > Cordially,
>> > west
>> >
>>
>> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
>> and much to think about.
>>
>> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
>> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
>>
>> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
>> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
>> reply.
> West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
> to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
> by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
> here at r.a.t.
Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
shame:-(
Iain
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:48399FBE.11DA6A@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> Iain Churches wrote:
>>
>> "West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
>> news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
>> > I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
>> > I'd
>> > like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar
>> > with
>> > old
>> > and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
>> > what
>> > is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
>> > audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias,
>> > and 2
>> > grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
>> > mind.
>> > A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
>> > ask.
>> > All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
>> >
>> > Cordially,
>> > west
>> >
>>
>> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
>> and much to think about.
>>
>> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
>> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
>>
>> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
>> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
>> reply.
> West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
> to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
> by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
> here at r.a.t.
Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
shame:-(
Iain
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:48399FBE.11DA6A@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > Iain Churches wrote:
> >>
> >> "West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
> >> news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
> >> > I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
> >> > I'd
> >> > like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar
> >> > with
> >> > old
> >> > and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
> >> > what
> >> > is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> >> > audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias,
> >> > and 2
> >> > grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
> >> > mind.
> >> > A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
> >> > ask.
> >> > All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
> >> >
> >> > Cordially,
> >> > west
> >> >
> >>
> >> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
> >> and much to think about.
> >>
> >> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
> >> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
> >>
> >> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
> >> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
> >> reply.
>
> > West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
> > to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
> > by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
> > here at r.a.t.
>
> Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
> there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
> been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
> shame:-(
No, beginners cease being beginners once they build things and learn.
Then they quit, and there's no need to discuss anything anymore.
There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
to learn more.
And if someone is building a preamp on a typical shoe string budget,
then they don't need to know what I might have to say about using 4 x
300B
in a modified PP VAC amp.
Meanwhile I get 500 hits a day at my website.
They go there to learn, and never to buy anything from me.
Patrick Turner.
>
> Iain
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:48399FBE.11DA6A@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > Iain Churches wrote:
> >>
> >> "West" <west@verizon . net > wrote in message
> >> news:JruWj.23633$5b3.10306@trnddc05...
> >> > I've built an out board power supply that (to me) looks kinda nifty, so
> >> > I'd
> >> > like to use handsome and modern connectors. Eons ago I was familiar
> >> > with
> >> > old
> >> > and large but reliable Cinch Jones types of plugs and receptacles. But
> >> > what
> >> > is a better and craftier type plug, harness, and receptacle for today's
> >> > audio equipment? The connections are: 12.6, 6.3, +/-5 &15, B+, Bias,
> >> > and 2
> >> > grounds. I might also make 1 or 2 control lines remote if I change my
> >> > mind.
> >> > A name and part number may be asking too much, but what the heck, I'll
> >> > ask.
> >> > All ideas and comments most welcomed. Thank you.
> >> >
> >> > Cordially,
> >> > west
> >> >
> >>
> >> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
> >> and much to think about.
> >>
> >> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
> >> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
> >>
> >> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
> >> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
> >> reply.
>
> > West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
> > to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
> > by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
> > here at r.a.t.
>
> Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
> there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
> been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
> shame:-(
No, beginners cease being beginners once they build things and learn.
Then they quit, and there's no need to discuss anything anymore.
There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
to learn more.
And if someone is building a preamp on a typical shoe string budget,
then they don't need to know what I might have to say about using 4 x
300B
in a modified PP VAC amp.
Meanwhile I get 500 hits a day at my website.
They go there to learn, and never to buy anything from me.
Patrick Turner.
>
> Iain
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:483A5461.5A826221@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> Iain Churches wrote:
>>
>> >> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
>> >> and much to think about.
>> >>
>> >> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
>> >> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
>> >>
>> >> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
>> >> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
>> >> reply.
>>
>> > West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
>> > to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
>> > by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
>> > here at r.a.t.
>>
>> Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
>> there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
>> been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
>> shame:-(
>
> No, beginners cease being beginners once they build things and learn.
Given the apparent interest, one would have expected
a constant flow (OK maybe a trickle:-) of people
starting out in tube audio. They don't show on this NG.
>
> Then they quit, and there's no need to discuss anything anymore.
What makes you think they quit? Tube audio is pretty addictive
for most.
>
> There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
> building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
> to learn more.
The percentage compared with those who own say IPods is indeed
small. But I am sure each of us here knows at least ten others who
have an interest to some degree in tubes.
> And if someone is building a preamp on a typical shoe string budget,
> then they don't need to know what I might have to say about using 4 x
> 300B
> in a modified PP VAC amp.
You are right there. They want a simple preamp design
which can still sound pretty good. But the interest in 300B,
DHT and SET is still considerable, when you talk to people.
However, once again, these people don't show up here too
often - they keep their heads down:-)
Regards to all
Iain
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:483A5461.5A826221@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> Iain Churches wrote:
>>
>> >> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
>> >> and much to think about.
>> >>
>> >> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
>> >> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
>> >>
>> >> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
>> >> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
>> >> reply.
>>
>> > West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
>> > to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
>> > by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
>> > here at r.a.t.
>>
>> Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
>> there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
>> been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
>> shame:-(
>
> No, beginners cease being beginners once they build things and learn.
Given the apparent interest, one would have expected
a constant flow (OK maybe a trickle:-) of people
starting out in tube audio. They don't show on this NG.
>
> Then they quit, and there's no need to discuss anything anymore.
What makes you think they quit? Tube audio is pretty addictive
for most.
>
> There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
> building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
> to learn more.
The percentage compared with those who own say IPods is indeed
small. But I am sure each of us here knows at least ten others who
have an interest to some degree in tubes.
> And if someone is building a preamp on a typical shoe string budget,
> then they don't need to know what I might have to say about using 4 x
> 300B
> in a modified PP VAC amp.
You are right there. They want a simple preamp design
which can still sound pretty good. But the interest in 300B,
DHT and SET is still considerable, when you talk to people.
However, once again, these people don't show up here too
often - they keep their heads down:-)
Regards to all
Iain
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:483A5461.5A826221@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > Iain Churches wrote:
> >>
>
> >> >> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
> >> >> and much to think about.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
> >> >> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
> >> >>
> >> >> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
> >> >> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
> >> >> reply.
> >>
> >> > West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
> >> > to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
> >> > by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
> >> > here at r.a.t.
> >>
> >> Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
> >> there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
> >> been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
> >> shame:-(
> >
> > No, beginners cease being beginners once they build things and learn.
>
> Given the apparent interest, one would have expected
> a constant flow (OK maybe a trickle:-) of people
> starting out in tube audio. They don't show on this NG.
>
> >
> > Then they quit, and there's no need to discuss anything anymore.
>
> What makes you think they quit? Tube audio is pretty addictive
> for most.
No, it really isn't. For every 10 people who get a craze on audio,
the interest lasts for only 1 in 10, and of those the interest
dies usually when they have to buy an OPT.
Most who are interested just want answers, not BS,
so they just surf the web, hence I get 500 hits a day,
but very few questions emailed.
> >
> > There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
> > building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
> > to learn more.
>
> The percentage compared with those who own say IPods is indeed
> small. But I am sure each of us here knows at least ten others who
> have an interest to some degree in tubes.
I do know 10 people interested in tubes.
They are some of my customers. If I had no customers, maybe I'd know 4
interested in tube audio.
This is out of a population of 340,000 local people.
In Sydney, there are about 4 million+, and the club there only has about
100 members.
Same for Melbourne.
The vast majority of my customers are into Crummy Solid State.
They all hate spending money on anything. Everything should be
affordable. Nothing is affordable enough for them.
And they really hate paying repair bills.
I had 4 ppl just this week with failed Marantz amps.
Some of this utter junk will take a couple of goes before its fixed.
You fix it once, then it fails a week later, so under warranty I have to
fix it again,
and sometimes you cannot prove its something else in the unit which
failed.
So there isn't much money to be made and its like cleaning toilets.
Stereo listening with tube of high end gear is rather dead now; its a
situation
going backwards to 1955 when only a few ppl took music seriously
enough spend some real money on audio, and bought Quads or Leaks, or
even Radfords etc.
The people who were young once upon a time in 1970 got their
first hi-fi sets which were SS mainly, and wooed their missus with it.
Who needs a TV picture when there's a good root to be had?
Those same folks all mainly want pictures now,
and rooting the fat old missus is an abomination of an idea.
Without a TV, they are utterly bored.
TV came into the home to replace music and books for most ppl.
Even now, most people pay only lip service for audio; what is important
is the moving picture.
I don't have a fucking TV set in my house.
I feel I am the living dead watching TV.
Why the fuck would I want to watch other ppl doing their lives instead
of doing my own??????
>
> > And if someone is building a preamp on a typical shoe string budget,
> > then they don't need to know what I might have to say about using 4 x
> > 300B
> > in a modified PP VAC amp.
>
> You are right there. They want a simple preamp design
> which can still sound pretty good.
There are several samples around the Web and at my website.
> But the interest in 300B,
> DHT and SET is still considerable, when you talk to people.
So so few ppl care about triode amps.
> However, once again, these people don't show up here too
> often - they keep their heads down:-)
A lot of them are full of BS ideas that cannot stand up to scrutiny.
They will want silver wire and fancy connectors and caps and all manner
of
crap, but when you examine the amps they buy, such as the VAC 7070,
you immediately see that what they have bought fails miserably to be
reliable,
and its full of bean counter inspired design idiocy, and other design
features
to make the item very difficult to live with, such as the unit's weight,
because some fuctard has decided to make a pair of monoblocs on ONE
chassis.
The sound is severly compromised by hum that is too high,
and distortion is needlessly 4 times or more higher than it might
otherwise
be had the designer used about $20 more worth of parts, and 3 hours more
of design time.
The vast majority of SET based forums have a lot of blind ppl leading
the blind.
They refuse to take technical issues and numbers seriously.
They'll argue about "the sound", but never measure anything.
I never go to other forums because I quickly find there's nothing I need
to say to them.
I've said it all here.
If ya get ya triode amp to measure well, it'll sound well.
If ya wanna gild tha lilly with fancy shmancy capacitors costing $100
each, don't lemme stop ya.
I ain't a feel good merchant. My website facilitates the efforts of the
diyer.
Once they have a working whatsit, they can then try all manner of snake
oils and witchcraft
audio techniques, and spend hours chatting about this stuff online but I
am not much interested
and don't have the time.
I've tried AB comparisons between Wima and Auricap polyprops and heard
no differences at all.
Nor can my customers. I have conducted tests here to find out if anyone
came pick a difference better than
50% of the time.
But I would be like a pork chop in a synogogue if I try to tell the ppl
in little forums where
nobody ever really challenges anyone else that most percieved capacitor
differences are
ficticious.
Just what value of capacitance you might have, and how the whole system
is composed
right down to the myriad little technical details is what
occupies my mind, and this is what is more important than brandname
bits.
Patrick Turner.
>
> Regards to all
> Iain
Iain Churches wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
> news:483A5461.5A826221@turneraudio . com .au...
> >
> >
> > Iain Churches wrote:
> >>
>
> >> >> This has been an excellent thread, with some 100 replies,
> >> >> and much to think about.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the majority of threads, the OP is the most
> >> >> active poster, replying to the responses he receives.
> >> >>
> >> >> I find it odd that, in this case the OP, West, having
> >> >> posed his question has not replied to a single post in
> >> >> reply.
> >>
> >> > West may not know enough to post a lot on real solutions
> >> > to the problem of remote PSU lest he find himself being roasted alive
> >> > by those of use who like to apply a blowtorch to arguers
> >> > here at r.a.t.
> >>
> >> Yes. That well may be so. It would also be the reason that
> >> there are no beginners any more on RAT. They have all
> >> been driven away by the flamethrowers. That's a great
> >> shame:-(
> >
> > No, beginners cease being beginners once they build things and learn.
>
> Given the apparent interest, one would have expected
> a constant flow (OK maybe a trickle:-) of people
> starting out in tube audio. They don't show on this NG.
>
> >
> > Then they quit, and there's no need to discuss anything anymore.
>
> What makes you think they quit? Tube audio is pretty addictive
> for most.
No, it really isn't. For every 10 people who get a craze on audio,
the interest lasts for only 1 in 10, and of those the interest
dies usually when they have to buy an OPT.
Most who are interested just want answers, not BS,
so they just surf the web, hence I get 500 hits a day,
but very few questions emailed.
> >
> > There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
> > building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
> > to learn more.
>
> The percentage compared with those who own say IPods is indeed
> small. But I am sure each of us here knows at least ten others who
> have an interest to some degree in tubes.
I do know 10 people interested in tubes.
They are some of my customers. If I had no customers, maybe I'd know 4
interested in tube audio.
This is out of a population of 340,000 local people.
In Sydney, there are about 4 million+, and the club there only has about
100 members.
Same for Melbourne.
The vast majority of my customers are into Crummy Solid State.
They all hate spending money on anything. Everything should be
affordable. Nothing is affordable enough for them.
And they really hate paying repair bills.
I had 4 ppl just this week with failed Marantz amps.
Some of this utter junk will take a couple of goes before its fixed.
You fix it once, then it fails a week later, so under warranty I have to
fix it again,
and sometimes you cannot prove its something else in the unit which
failed.
So there isn't much money to be made and its like cleaning toilets.
Stereo listening with tube of high end gear is rather dead now; its a
situation
going backwards to 1955 when only a few ppl took music seriously
enough spend some real money on audio, and bought Quads or Leaks, or
even Radfords etc.
The people who were young once upon a time in 1970 got their
first hi-fi sets which were SS mainly, and wooed their missus with it.
Who needs a TV picture when there's a good root to be had?
Those same folks all mainly want pictures now,
and rooting the fat old missus is an abomination of an idea.
Without a TV, they are utterly bored.
TV came into the home to replace music and books for most ppl.
Even now, most people pay only lip service for audio; what is important
is the moving picture.
I don't have a fucking TV set in my house.
I feel I am the living dead watching TV.
Why the fuck would I want to watch other ppl doing their lives instead
of doing my own??????
>
> > And if someone is building a preamp on a typical shoe string budget,
> > then they don't need to know what I might have to say about using 4 x
> > 300B
> > in a modified PP VAC amp.
>
> You are right there. They want a simple preamp design
> which can still sound pretty good.
There are several samples around the Web and at my website.
> But the interest in 300B,
> DHT and SET is still considerable, when you talk to people.
So so few ppl care about triode amps.
> However, once again, these people don't show up here too
> often - they keep their heads down:-)
A lot of them are full of BS ideas that cannot stand up to scrutiny.
They will want silver wire and fancy connectors and caps and all manner
of
crap, but when you examine the amps they buy, such as the VAC 7070,
you immediately see that what they have bought fails miserably to be
reliable,
and its full of bean counter inspired design idiocy, and other design
features
to make the item very difficult to live with, such as the unit's weight,
because some fuctard has decided to make a pair of monoblocs on ONE
chassis.
The sound is severly compromised by hum that is too high,
and distortion is needlessly 4 times or more higher than it might
otherwise
be had the designer used about $20 more worth of parts, and 3 hours more
of design time.
The vast majority of SET based forums have a lot of blind ppl leading
the blind.
They refuse to take technical issues and numbers seriously.
They'll argue about "the sound", but never measure anything.
I never go to other forums because I quickly find there's nothing I need
to say to them.
I've said it all here.
If ya get ya triode amp to measure well, it'll sound well.
If ya wanna gild tha lilly with fancy shmancy capacitors costing $100
each, don't lemme stop ya.
I ain't a feel good merchant. My website facilitates the efforts of the
diyer.
Once they have a working whatsit, they can then try all manner of snake
oils and witchcraft
audio techniques, and spend hours chatting about this stuff online but I
am not much interested
and don't have the time.
I've tried AB comparisons between Wima and Auricap polyprops and heard
no differences at all.
Nor can my customers. I have conducted tests here to find out if anyone
came pick a difference better than
50% of the time.
But I would be like a pork chop in a synogogue if I try to tell the ppl
in little forums where
nobody ever really challenges anyone else that most percieved capacitor
differences are
ficticious.
Just what value of capacitance you might have, and how the whole system
is composed
right down to the myriad little technical details is what
occupies my mind, and this is what is more important than brandname
bits.
Patrick Turner.
>
> Regards to all
> Iain
Re: Remote Power Supply Connection
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:483BDA1F.DE1A2FD2@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> Iain Churches wrote:
>> What makes you think they quit? Tube audio is pretty addictive
>> for most.
>
> No, it really isn't. For every 10 people who get a craze on audio,
> the interest lasts for only 1 in 10, and of those the interest
> dies usually when they have to buy an OPT.
When at the entry level, one does not need Lundahl
or Sowter. A much more modest OPT will give
adequate results for a basicx project.
> Most who are interested just want answers, not BS,
> so they just surf the web, hence I get 500 hits a day,
> but very few questions emailed.
That's a huge number of hits. I saw no counter on your
site. One would have thought that such a level of access
would have generated considerable e-mail, resulting in
a healthy order book.
My own, much more modest webpage, gets some 50 hits
per week, which generate about five interesting e-mails per
day.
>
>> > There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
>> > building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
>> > to learn more.
That's probably true, because the threshold is quite steep. But
thanks to authors like Morgan Jones and Bruce Rozenblit, people
are interested in finding out what tube audio is all about.
>>
> I do know 10 people interested in tubes.
>
> They are some of my customers. If I had no customers, maybe I'd know 4
> interested in tube audio.
> This is out of a population of 340,000 local people.
> In Sydney, there are about 4 million+, and the club there only has about
> 100 members.
> Same for Melbourne.
I probably know 100, and both HKI and Stockhom are much
smaller cities.
>
> TV came into the home to replace music and books for most ppl.
>
> Even now, most people pay only lip service for audio; what is important
> is the moving picture.
Yes. It is true that listening to music which once the principle hobby
for many, now has to compete with TV, computers, PlayStations,
DVD rentals, HT etc etc. Although the percentage of disposable income
has risen considerably, it is probably now spread more thinly.
>
> I feel I am the living dead watching TV.
>
> Why the fuck would I want to watch other ppl doing their lives instead
> of doing my own??????
One of my other hobbies is military history. Both the BBC and
Discovery Channel have very good documentaries. Other than
these, and the News, I watch very little TV which is a very poor
substitute for the cinema, which I enjoy very much. Luckily my
music room is on the lower ground floor. So I can go there to
enjoy music whenever I choose, day or night, and annboy no-one.
>
> A lot of them are full of BS ideas that cannot stand up to scrutiny.
I very much enjoy listening to people's opinions and ideas.
I had lunch a few days ago with a very nice fellow, a
lawyer, who is very interesting in music and tube audio. He was
speaking sincerely when he told me that he has a great problem
with amplifiers with feedback. He finds that they "smear" the
audio signal. I tried to outline the benefits of NFB, flatter BW,
lower THD, lower Zout, but he was of the opinion that all this
was too high a price to pay for the negative aspects that he
observed. None of us can connect our brains to his ears, so
there is no way to know what he can or cannot hear. But, my
point is, if he had made sauch a comment on Usenet he would
have been ridiculed immediately, without any kind of discussion.
> They will want silver wire and fancy connectors and caps and all manner
> of
> crap, but when you examine the amps they buy, such as the VAC 7070,
> you immediately see that what they have bought fails miserably to be
> reliable,
> and its full of bean counter inspired design idiocy, and other design
> features
> to make the item very difficult to live with, such as the unit's weight,
> because some fuctard has decided to make a pair of monoblocs on ONE
> chassis.
> The sound is severly compromised by hum that is too high,
> and distortion is needlessly 4 times or more higher than it might
> otherwise
> be had the designer used about $20 more worth of parts, and 3 hours more
> of design time.
None of us, much as we would like to, can set ourselves up as judge
and jury when people make their choices. If a client specifically
request a shielded mains cable, then that's what he wants. If, after
protracted listening tests he decides that four pairs of PPP EL84s
produce musical Nirvana, you are wasting your time offering him
a KT88 alternative.
>
> The vast majority of SET based forums have a lot of blind ppl leading
> the blind.
> They refuse to take technical issues and numbers seriously.
> They'll argue about "the sound", but never measure anything.
> I never go to other forums because I quickly find there's nothing I need
> to say to them.
> I've said it all here.
Yes indeed. SET is in an interesting case, and can be relied upon to
put the cat among the pigeons.
>
> If ya get ya triode amp to measure well, it'll sound well.
But it's all relative. I strive for a noise floor of <100µV. People
tell me that 1mV is OK :-)
>
> If ya wanna gild tha lilly with fancy shmancy capacitors costing $100
> each, don't lemme stop ya.
That's exactly what some people want.
I spent an interesting couple of hours on Thursday last,
sitting in on a tube amp "fitting" session when a client
came to discuss with a colleague of mine the remaining
details of his new amp which is nearing completion.
The listening tests had been carried out quite a while
ago with a similar amp at the client's home, and at the
voicing, he picked out the brands of tubes that pleased
him, and some small adjustments were subsequently made.
But this meeting was to decide on the final cosmetic details.
I liked very much the way the builder handled the whole thing.
He had six sets of solid teak side panels, ready oiled (three
coats applied earlier in the week) and laid these out for the
client to choose the pair with the grain he liked the best.
He and I went away to make the coffee while the client
deliberated, and looked at the panels in daylight and under
artificial light. By the time the coffee was ready, he had
made his choice, and put one pair of panels aside for his
own amp.
The stainless steel and copper chassis was now resplendent
after many days of polishing, and transformers in their black
powder coated pots, were fitted.
He had not been impressed by any of the standard catalogue knobs,
but very much liked those he had seen on an old Marconi receiver.
A set of these, brand new, had been made up for him on CNC
and anodised. He was delighted.
He approved the drawings for the front badge, and this
will be ready, engraved on nickel plate on Monday.
The client was a serious, middle-aged professional man, but I
could see that beneath this calm exterior, and from the way his
mouth turned up at the corners, and the glint in his eye, that he
was excited as a kid at Christmas.
He had been given a level of product individuality and service
that no dealer with a franchise in SS big names could even
hope to match. I have no idea what he was paying for this
tube amp amp. I would estimate that the CNC machined
knobs cost about the same as a solid state power amp.
But, so what? He has the money, and knows exactly what
he wants
Me? I just watched with interest and picked the largest slice
of fruit cake, the one with the cherry on it:-)
>
> I ain't a feel good merchant. My website facilitates the efforts of the
> diyer.
> Once they have a working whatsit, they can then try all manner of snake
> oils and witchcraft
> audio techniques, and spend hours chatting about this stuff online but I
> am not much interested
> and don't have the time.
But as a bespoke builder, you strive to give the client what he/she (thinks
he/she) wants.
>
> I've tried AB comparisons between Wima and Auricap polyprops and heard
> no differences at all.
> Nor can my customers. I have conducted tests here to find out if anyone
> came pick a difference better than
> 50% of the time.
I know people who insists on Jensen silver or copper paper in oil
caps. They claim they can here the superiority of these, and are
willing to put their money behind their opinions. That's fine by me.
> But I would be like a pork chop in a synogogue if I try to tell the ppl
> in little forums where
> nobody ever really challenges anyone else that most percieved capacitor
> differences are
> ficticious.
Yes indeed. It is better to let people believe what they want to believe.
You cannot possibly "put yourself in their ears" so why make a big deal
of it?
> Just what value of capacitance you might have, and how the whole system
> is composed
> right down to the myriad little technical details is what
> occupies my mind, and this is what is more important than brandname
> bits.
The engineering bit (correct values for optimum performance) is
much more important that boutique caps and connectors.
But if someone thinks otherwise, they are entitled to their opinion
as far as I am concerned.
Iain
"Patrick Turner" <info@turneraudio . com .au> wrote in message
news:483BDA1F.DE1A2FD2@turneraudio . com .au...
>
>
> Iain Churches wrote:
>> What makes you think they quit? Tube audio is pretty addictive
>> for most.
>
> No, it really isn't. For every 10 people who get a craze on audio,
> the interest lasts for only 1 in 10, and of those the interest
> dies usually when they have to buy an OPT.
When at the entry level, one does not need Lundahl
or Sowter. A much more modest OPT will give
adequate results for a basicx project.
> Most who are interested just want answers, not BS,
> so they just surf the web, hence I get 500 hits a day,
> but very few questions emailed.
That's a huge number of hits. I saw no counter on your
site. One would have thought that such a level of access
would have generated considerable e-mail, resulting in
a healthy order book.
My own, much more modest webpage, gets some 50 hits
per week, which generate about five interesting e-mails per
day.
>
>> > There is an extraordinarily SMALL number of people world wide actually
>> > building their own audio gear, AND who also want to discuss it
>> > to learn more.
That's probably true, because the threshold is quite steep. But
thanks to authors like Morgan Jones and Bruce Rozenblit, people
are interested in finding out what tube audio is all about.
>>
> I do know 10 people interested in tubes.
>
> They are some of my customers. If I had no customers, maybe I'd know 4
> interested in tube audio.
> This is out of a population of 340,000 local people.
> In Sydney, there are about 4 million+, and the club there only has about
> 100 members.
> Same for Melbourne.
I probably know 100, and both HKI and Stockhom are much
smaller cities.
>
> TV came into the home to replace music and books for most ppl.
>
> Even now, most people pay only lip service for audio; what is important
> is the moving picture.
Yes. It is true that listening to music which once the principle hobby
for many, now has to compete with TV, computers, PlayStations,
DVD rentals, HT etc etc. Although the percentage of disposable income
has risen considerably, it is probably now spread more thinly.
>
> I feel I am the living dead watching TV.
>
> Why the fuck would I want to watch other ppl doing their lives instead
> of doing my own??????
One of my other hobbies is military history. Both the BBC and
Discovery Channel have very good documentaries. Other than
these, and the News, I watch very little TV which is a very poor
substitute for the cinema, which I enjoy very much. Luckily my
music room is on the lower ground floor. So I can go there to
enjoy music whenever I choose, day or night, and annboy no-one.
>
> A lot of them are full of BS ideas that cannot stand up to scrutiny.
I very much enjoy listening to people's opinions and ideas.
I had lunch a few days ago with a very nice fellow, a
lawyer, who is very interesting in music and tube audio. He was
speaking sincerely when he told me that he has a great problem
with amplifiers with feedback. He finds that they "smear" the
audio signal. I tried to outline the benefits of NFB, flatter BW,
lower THD, lower Zout, but he was of the opinion that all this
was too high a price to pay for the negative aspects that he
observed. None of us can connect our brains to his ears, so
there is no way to know what he can or cannot hear. But, my
point is, if he had made sauch a comment on Usenet he would
have been ridiculed immediately, without any kind of discussion.
> They will want silver wire and fancy connectors and caps and all manner
> of
> crap, but when you examine the amps they buy, such as the VAC 7070,
> you immediately see that what they have bought fails miserably to be
> reliable,
> and its full of bean counter inspired design idiocy, and other design
> features
> to make the item very difficult to live with, such as the unit's weight,
> because some fuctard has decided to make a pair of monoblocs on ONE
> chassis.
> The sound is severly compromised by hum that is too high,
> and distortion is needlessly 4 times or more higher than it might
> otherwise
> be had the designer used about $20 more worth of parts, and 3 hours more
> of design time.
None of us, much as we would like to, can set ourselves up as judge
and jury when people make their choices. If a client specifically
request a shielded mains cable, then that's what he wants. If, after
protracted listening tests he decides that four pairs of PPP EL84s
produce musical Nirvana, you are wasting your time offering him
a KT88 alternative.
>
> The vast majority of SET based forums have a lot of blind ppl leading
> the blind.
> They refuse to take technical issues and numbers seriously.
> They'll argue about "the sound", but never measure anything.
> I never go to other forums because I quickly find there's nothing I need
> to say to them.
> I've said it all here.
Yes indeed. SET is in an interesting case, and can be relied upon to
put the cat among the pigeons.
>
> If ya get ya triode amp to measure well, it'll sound well.
But it's all relative. I strive for a noise floor of <100µV. People
tell me that 1mV is OK :-)
>
> If ya wanna gild tha lilly with fancy shmancy capacitors costing $100
> each, don't lemme stop ya.
That's exactly what some people want.
I spent an interesting couple of hours on Thursday last,
sitting in on a tube amp "fitting" session when a client
came to discuss with a colleague of mine the remaining
details of his new amp which is nearing completion.
The listening tests had been carried out quite a while
ago with a similar amp at the client's home, and at the
voicing, he picked out the brands of tubes that pleased
him, and some small adjustments were subsequently made.
But this meeting was to decide on the final cosmetic details.
I liked very much the way the builder handled the whole thing.
He had six sets of solid teak side panels, ready oiled (three
coats applied earlier in the week) and laid these out for the
client to choose the pair with the grain he liked the best.
He and I went away to make the coffee while the client
deliberated, and looked at the panels in daylight and under
artificial light. By the time the coffee was ready, he had
made his choice, and put one pair of panels aside for his
own amp.
The stainless steel and copper chassis was now resplendent
after many days of polishing, and transformers in their black
powder coated pots, were fitted.
He had not been impressed by any of the standard catalogue knobs,
but very much liked those he had seen on an old Marconi receiver.
A set of these, brand new, had been made up for him on CNC
and anodised. He was delighted.
He approved the drawings for the front badge, and this
will be ready, engraved on nickel plate on Monday.
The client was a serious, middle-aged professional man, but I
could see that beneath this calm exterior, and from the way his
mouth turned up at the corners, and the glint in his eye, that he
was excited as a kid at Christmas.
He had been given a level of product individuality and service
that no dealer with a franchise in SS big names could even
hope to match. I have no idea what he was paying for this
tube amp amp. I would estimate that the CNC machined
knobs cost about the same as a solid state power amp.
But, so what? He has the money, and knows exactly what
he wants
Me? I just watched with interest and picked the largest slice
of fruit cake, the one with the cherry on it:-)
>
> I ain't a feel good merchant. My website facilitates the efforts of the
> diyer.
> Once they have a working whatsit, they can then try all manner of snake
> oils and witchcraft
> audio techniques, and spend hours chatting about this stuff online but I
> am not much interested
> and don't have the time.
But as a bespoke builder, you strive to give the client what he/she (thinks
he/she) wants.
>
> I've tried AB comparisons between Wima and Auricap polyprops and heard
> no differences at all.
> Nor can my customers. I have conducted tests here to find out if anyone
> came pick a difference better than
> 50% of the time.
I know people who insists on Jensen silver or copper paper in oil
caps. They claim they can here the superiority of these, and are
willing to put their money behind their opinions. That's fine by me.
> But I would be like a pork chop in a synogogue if I try to tell the ppl
> in little forums where
> nobody ever really challenges anyone else that most percieved capacitor
> differences are
> ficticious.
Yes indeed. It is better to let people believe what they want to believe.
You cannot possibly "put yourself in their ears" so why make a big deal
of it?
> Just what value of capacitance you might have, and how the whole system
> is composed
> right down to the myriad little technical details is what
> occupies my mind, and this is what is more important than brandname
> bits.
The engineering bit (correct values for optimum performance) is
much more important that boutique caps and connectors.
But if someone thinks otherwise, they are entitled to their opinion
as far as I am concerned.
Iain
