OT-car brake help needed

OT-car brake help needed

The Subaru braking seems weak. I couldn't find time to work on it so
sent it to the mechanic, who did nothing other than inspect the pads
and shoes (disc front, drum rear) and tell me the rotors are glazed,
pads and drums have 50% life, nothing to worry about, not worth
de-glazing the rotors they'll just glaze again, thanks for the
business see ya later.

Clearly, glazed rotors aren't going to provide ideal stopping power.
Is it worth hitting them with some 120 grit? get a brake disc hone?
have them re-surfaced?

I think I may as well replace the pads while I'm working on the
rotors. Any recommendations on pads? Just go OEM?

I did pull the cap off the master cylinder, fluid looks OK, but I
noticed the rubber cap that seals the lid (diaphragm?) has a nice even
10mm long slit in the center. Is this the way the part should be? My
YZ brake diaphragms are one piece, no slits. Doesn't seem right to me,
but the slit looks to even and clean to be a wear failure.

thanks...

--
Charles
'99 YZ250

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On May 8, 11:10=EF=BF=BDpm, HardWorkingDog <har...@mush.man> wrote:
> The Subaru braking seems weak. I couldn't find time to work on it so
> sent it to the mechanic, who did nothing other than inspect the pads
> and shoes (disc front, drum rear) and tell me the rotors are glazed,
> pads and drums have 50% life, nothing to worry about, not worth
> de-glazing the rotors they'll just glaze again, thanks for the
> business see ya later.
>
> Clearly, glazed rotors aren't going to provide ideal stopping power.
> Is it worth hitting them with some 120 grit? get a brake disc hone?
> have them re-surfaced?
>
> I think I may as well replace the pads while I'm working on the
> rotors. Any recommendations on pads? Just go OEM?
>
> I did pull the cap off the master cylinder, fluid looks OK, but I
> noticed the rubber cap that seals the lid (diaphragm?) has a nice even
> 10mm long slit in the center. Is this the way the part should be? My
> YZ brake diaphragms are one piece, no slits. Doesn't seem right to me,
> but the slit looks to even and clean to be a wear failure.
>
> thanks...
>
> --
> Charles
> '99 YZ250

I don't know anything about the Suburu, so take my advice with a grain
of salt. Rotors for most American cars are cheap, maybe $30 each for
new ones. You can have them turned at most brake repair shops or
machine shops for under $15. Pads are cheap too for american cars.

As far as the gasket/boot/diaphram is concerned: I have always been
under the impression that it should NOT have a slit in it. The slit
may cause moisture to enter your system or even leak out. The diaphram
is suppose to expand as your brakes wear, therefore not allowing air
space for moisture to build up in. Just my opinion, I could be wrong
on all this. :-)

Hank <~~~never gets a brake......oops, I mean break

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On Thu, 08 May 2008 21:10:26 -0700, HardWorkingDog <harvey@mush.man>
wrote:


>Clearly, glazed rotors aren't going to provide ideal stopping power.
>Is it worth hitting them with some 120 grit? get a brake disc hone?
>have them re-surfaced?

Personally, I've never considered working on my own rotors simply
because, as Hank points out, you can get them resurfaced
professionally for about 15 bucks at many local parts stores or
machine shops. O'Reillys did my last pair.

It's been my experience that I need the rotors resurfaced with
every other pad change, unless I let the pads wear too much and the
rivets start gouging the rotors... in that case the rotors *always*
need resurface or replacement.

I don't recall *ever* having takin' a vehicle to the shops for
brakes, so I have a bit of experience in this sort of maintenance.

>I think I may as well replace the pads while I'm working on the
>rotors. Any recommendations on pads? Just go OEM?

OEM pads are really better than the Autozone $14.99 pads with
lifetime warranty. So if you go to an Autozone type store, look for
the higher priced options. I'm told that Axxis Ultimates are about the
same price as OEM and are very, very good pads (a lot of the "tuner"
guys use them for their regular street cars and daily driving).

I bought some ceramic pads once and didn't like them at all, but
maybe that's just me. They squealed a lot and seemed to cause more
rotor glazing. Semi-metallic is what I use. You get a bit more brake
dust with semi-metallic (vs ceramic), but they work great, are
affordable, and don't eat the rotors too bad.

>I did pull the cap off the master cylinder, fluid looks OK, but I
>noticed the rubber cap that seals the lid (diaphragm?) has a nice even
>10mm long slit in the center. Is this the way the part should be?

I'm guessing no, but I honestly couldn't say. It'd be nice if you
could find a new one for comparison. I just know that none of my MC
diaphragms have had such a slit. Good luck, Charles.


Fred Bradford - CrashTestDummy
fjbradfordREMOVE@tx.rr . com

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On Fri, 09 May 2008 06:10:26 -0500, CrashTestDummy
<FBRADFORDremove@tx.rr . com > wrote:

>>I think I may as well replace the pads while I'm working on the
>>rotors. Any recommendations on pads? Just go OEM?
>
> OEM pads are really better than the Autozone $14.99 pads with
>lifetime warranty. So if you go to an Autozone type store, look for
>the higher priced options. I'm told that Axxis Ultimates are about the
>same price as OEM and are very, very good pads (a lot of the "tuner"
>guys use them for their regular street cars and daily driving).

I had lifetime warranty pads from AutoZone on my F-150. They
needed replaced about every 12,000 miles or so. Yes, they were
"free", but still took the time to pull the pads, drive to AZ, get
the new ones, drive home, install, etc.

I've got about 120,000 on my Silverado's original pads and they're
still about half there. I don't care what they cost, I'll be
buying OEM from now on. If I can get to a half million miles on
one brake job, I'll be reasonably pleased.


----
Team NCS Off Road
----

Re: OT-car brake help needed

HardWorkingDog asks:

> Clearly, glazed rotors aren't going to provide ideal stopping power.
> Is it worth hitting them with some 120 grit? get a brake disc hone?
> have them re-surfaced?

While I don't know what is wrong with your brakes, you should
know that Subaru (and my mechanic buddy that isn't a Sub dealer)
both insist that Sub discs should only be resurfaced ON the car.
I never figured out why but it supposedly has something to do
with the way they mount. Buy new or have somebody with
some expensive machine to do it on the car do it if you believe
this.


> I did pull the cap off the master cylinder, fluid looks OK, but I
> noticed the rubber cap that seals the lid (diaphragm?) has a nice even
> 10mm long slit in the center. Is this the way the part should be?

That doesn't sound right. It needs to be leak free to work right I
think. Maybe you need a new one and a fluid change. Does the lack
of brakes get worse when brakes are hot - indicating water in the
fluid is boiling?


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On May 9, 7:56 am, sturd <mikesturdevant...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> HardWorkingDog asks:
>
> > Clearly, glazed rotors aren't going to provide ideal stopping power.
> > Is it worth hitting them with some 120 grit? get a brake disc hone?
> > have them re-surfaced?
>
> While I don't know what is wrong with your brakes, you should
> know that Subaru (and my mechanic buddy that isn't a Sub dealer)
> both insist that Sub discs should only be resurfaced ON the car.
> I never figured out why but it supposedly has something to do
> with the way they mount. Buy new or have somebody with
> some expensive machine to do it on the car do it if you believe
> this.
>
> > I did pull the cap off the master cylinder, fluid looks OK, but I
> > noticed the rubber cap that seals the lid (diaphragm?) has a nice even
> > 10mm long slit in the center. Is this the way the part should be?
>
> That doesn't sound right. It needs to be leak free to work right I
> think. Maybe you need a new one and a fluid change. Does the lack
> of brakes get worse when brakes are hot - indicating water in the
> fluid is boiling?
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.


Anything worth knowing about subies (pretty much) can be found at:

* w w w .ultimatesubaru.org/

* subaruoutback.org/

Dave

Re: OT-car brake help needed

In article
<13ce04e9-bb4e-4157-957d-51e555b74535@l64g2000hse.googlegroups . com >,
XR650L_Dave <spamTHISbrp@yahoo . com > wrote:

> On May 9, 7:56 am, sturd <mikesturdevant...@hotmail . com > wrote:
> > HardWorkingDog asks:
> >
> > > Clearly, glazed rotors aren't going to provide ideal stopping power.
> > > Is it worth hitting them with some 120 grit? get a brake disc hone?
> > > have them re-surfaced?
> >
> > While I don't know what is wrong with your brakes, you should
> > know that Subaru (and my mechanic buddy that isn't a Sub dealer)
> > both insist that Sub discs should only be resurfaced ON the car.
> > I never figured out why but it supposedly has something to do
> > with the way they mount. Buy new or have somebody with
> > some expensive machine to do it on the car do it if you believe
> > this.
> >
> > > I did pull the cap off the master cylinder, fluid looks OK, but I
> > > noticed the rubber cap that seals the lid (diaphragm?) has a nice even
> > > 10mm long slit in the center. Is this the way the part should be?
> >
> > That doesn't sound right. It needs to be leak free to work right I
> > think. Maybe you need a new one and a fluid change. Does the lack
> > of brakes get worse when brakes are hot - indicating water in the
> > fluid is boiling?
> >
> > Go fast. Take chances.
> > Mike S.
>
>
> Anything worth knowing about subies (pretty much) can be found at:
>
> * w w w .ultimatesubaru.org/
>
> * subaruoutback.org/
>
> Dave

Thanks Dave, sturd, CTD, HH, & scrape. (in a hurry this morning)

--
Charles
'99 YZ250

Re: OT-car brake help needed

> The Subaru braking seems weak. I couldn't find time to work on it so
> sent it to the mechanic, who did nothing other than inspect the pads
> and shoes (disc front, drum rear) and tell me the rotors are glazed,
> pads and drums have 50% life, nothing to worry about, not worth
> de-glazing the rotors they'll just glaze again, thanks for the
> business see ya later.

Subaru eh? Gonna join the Sierra Club next?

Break out your vacuum bleeder and change out the fluid and buy a new
MC cap. I'd probably pop in a new set of pads (Autozone type) just
for the hell of it. Personally, I've never resurfaced rotors. I just
change the pads - the new pads pick up the rotor grooves after the
first day. Gives twice the surface area, at least that's my theory.

JayC

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On May 9, 10:13 am, JayC <j...@sysmatrix . net > wrote:
> > The Subaru braking seems weak. I couldn't find time to work on it so
> > sent it to the mechanic, who did nothing other than inspect the pads
> > and shoes (disc front, drum rear) and tell me the rotors are glazed,
> > pads and drums have 50% life, nothing to worry about, not worth
> > de-glazing the rotors they'll just glaze again, thanks for the
> > business see ya later.
>
> Subaru eh? Gonna join the Sierra Club next?
>
> Break out your vacuum bleeder and change out the fluid and buy a new
> MC cap. I'd probably pop in a new set of pads (Autozone type) just
> for the hell of it. Personally, I've never resurfaced rotors. I just
> change the pads - the new pads pick up the rotor grooves after the
> first day. Gives twice the surface area, at least that's my theory.
>
> JayC


For me the combination of gas-mileage, haul-crap-ability, never-get-
stopped-by-the-snow-or-ice, and get-into-the-boonies-to-rescue-the-
bike made the choice of a subaru easy.

I ended up with a 3-litre 6 cyl 2003 outback ll-bean edition, will
cruise at 95 when I need it to, will top 115, the only thing that'll
stop it is when you run out of ground clearance. And it gets slightly
over 27mpg on my commute.


I don't see a lot of 'green' association with subies, not around here
anyway, but it is a little like joining a cult.

XR-Connie is (or was) over on USMB, so fellow subaru-owning RMDers,
come out of the closet! There are at least 3 of us!


Dave

Re: OT-car brake help needed

> I don't see a lot of 'green' association with subies, not around here
> anyway, but it is a little like joining a cult.

Really? Subarus are right up there with Birkenstocks these days ;).

My first few cars were Subarus (back in my hippy days). I got a '76
DL (my first car) when I first went to college, then an '83 GL
hatchback 4x4 right after I graduated (AKA "Ski-Car" with the ultra-
cool secret 3rd headlight under the flip-up logo). That car was
awsome, but got killed when I got creamed in it after 6 months, which
screwed up my back to this day. I picked up a '74 4x4 wagon after
that - I found it buried under a pile of snow a bought it for $300
(first shift on the fly 4x4 produced) - it's claim to fame was that
the firewall was make out of duct tape. I also froze the entire
cooling system solid at Killington once when it went down to -30F one
night. Ultimately, I ended my reign of Subarus after my wagon
suffered a freak electrical problem and broke down on the NJ
Turnpike. I ended up taking the plates off and abandoning it in New
Brunswick ;).

If I drove on the highway 55MPH (which I only did once), my '76 DL got
45MPG. That's right...FORTY-FIVE goddamned MPG. All this hybrid crap
and 'Smart Car' BS these days doesn't impress me at all. All they can
seem to pull off is high 30s for milage - maybe 50MPG for a 800 pound
hybrid shaped like a butt-plug. Pffft, child's play. I say toss all
of that hybrid/fuel-cell/flex-fuel techno-crap, and outfit the US
fleet with 70's era subaru flat 4s with old fashioned carbs - we'll
have energy independence in 6 months.

The only problem with the old Subarus is that the brake calipers
tended to seize up, requiring replacing pretty much the entire brake
system every couple of years. That and they used a one-piece exhaust
that cost $400 (in '81 dollars) to replace - and it rotted fast.

JayC

Re: OT-car brake help needed

JayC wrote:
>
> If I drove on the highway 55MPH (which I only did once), my '76 DL got
> 45MPG. That's right...FORTY-FIVE goddamned MPG. All this hybrid crap
> and 'Smart Car' BS these days doesn't impress me at all. All they can
> seem to pull off is high 30s for milage - maybe 50MPG for a 800 pound
> hybrid shaped like a butt-plug. Pffft, child's play. I say toss all
> of that hybrid/fuel-cell/flex-fuel techno-crap, and outfit the US
> fleet with 70's era subaru flat 4s with old fashioned carbs - we'll
> have energy independence in 6 months.

Your ignorance is showing.

My 3,000 pound 2007 Prius averaged just over 50 MPG on a 1,000 mile road
trip this past Christmas at the prevailing speeds on I-65. Of late have
been getting 55 MPG on 10 mile commute to work.

The sad news is that I can't justify riding the GL1800 to work for gas
mileage, the Goldwing only gets 42 MPG under the same conditions. Worse,
tires cost $400 mounted and balanced every 12,000 miles while for the
same price Prius tires are 40,000 to 60,000 mile items.

Is good to save gasoline for important things, such as to feed my truck
to haul my KTM to the woods and back 150 miles round trip each weekend.
Then again its a wussy 2.2L Sonoma long bed which gets gets 25 MPG
loaded with two KTM's, two guys, and riding gear.

All MPGs measured at the pump with a logbook. Real long term averages,
not spot calculations.

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:01:20 -0500, David Kelly <n4hhe@yahoo . com >
wrote:

>Is good to save gasoline for important things, such as to feed my truck
>to haul my KTM to the woods and back 150 miles round trip each weekend.
>Then again its a wussy 2.2L Sonoma long bed which gets gets 25 MPG
>loaded with two KTM's, two guys, and riding gear.

My V-8, 4WD full size Chevy loaded with three bikes, three adults,
gas cans, etc. and a 3 day weekend worth of camping equipment,
food, coolers, etc. gets between 19 and 20 on the road.

Glad I didn't have to get one of those wussy things...

And thanks for using the Prius and saving more gas for ME.


----
Team NCS Off Road
----

Re: OT-car brake help needed

scrape wrote:
>
> And thanks for using the Prius and saving more gas for ME.

Paid less for the Prius than my previous car. And now 16 months later
its still a hoot to drive. The "Smart Key" stays in my pocket. Press a
big power button (same symbol as on your computer power button), the car
beeps twice and Toyota logo appears on the LCD "monitor" and its ready
to drive off. Engine starts about half way down the driveway when I'm
reaching for the garage door button.

OK, I'm a geek and easily amused. :-)

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On Fri, 9 May 2008 10:50:45 -0700 (PDT), JayC <jwc@sysmatrix . net >
wrote:


>If I drove on the highway 55MPH (which I only did once), my '76 DL got
>45MPG. That's right...FORTY-FIVE goddamned MPG. All this hybrid crap
>and 'Smart Car' BS these days doesn't impress me at all. All they can
>seem to pull off is high 30s for milage - maybe 50MPG for a 800 pound
>hybrid shaped like a butt-plug. Pffft, child's play. I say toss all
>of that hybrid/fuel-cell/flex-fuel techno-crap, and outfit the US
>fleet with 70's era subaru flat 4s with old fashioned carbs - we'll
>have energy independence in 6 months.


I can't speak for the new hybrids, but I agree that some of the
vehicles from the '80s got very, very good mileage. We had a 1985
Plymouth Horizon (shaped sorta like the old VW Rabbits) that I swear
to you got an honest 48 mpg on the highway. The "book" says 36 or
40mpg highway (depending on which one you read), but I know that to be
false in our case because we drove 900 highway miles back and forth
(between Portland and Baker City -- 300 miles each way) and up to Mt.
Hood and back (around 140 miles RT) getting 48mpg the whole time. Our
particular model was equipped with a 1.6-liter Peugeot motor and
4-speed manual transmission. That thing was incredible. But it
eventually blew up when something poked a hole in the oil pan and we
couldn't get the engine shut off fast enough (the "warning" light came
on about 2 milliseconds before the motor let go). Damn French!

PS -- We also owned a Subaru. A mid-'80s GL. I once had to change the
CV joints and about shot myself during the process. Other than that it
performed flawlessly while we owned it.



Fred Bradford - CrashTestDummy
fjbradfordREMOVE@tx.rr . com

Re: OT-car brake help needed

On May 9, 11:13 am, JayC <j...@sysmatrix . net > wrote:
> > The Subaru braking seems weak. I couldn't find time to work on it so
> > sent it to the mechanic, who did nothing other than inspect the pads
> > and shoes (disc front, drum rear) and tell me the rotors are glazed,
> > pads and drums have 50% life, nothing to worry about, not worth
> > de-glazing the rotors they'll just glaze again, thanks for the
> > business see ya later.
>
> Subaru eh? Gonna join the Sierra Club next?
>
> Break out your vacuum bleeder and change out the fluid and buy a new
> MC cap. I'd probably pop in a new set of pads (Autozone type) just
> for the hell of it. Personally, I've never resurfaced rotors. I just
> change the pads - the new pads pick up the rotor grooves after the
> first day. Gives twice the surface area, at least that's my theory.

My experience is that scored rotors brake *less*. ymmv. Pads, I use
OEM brand bought at the parts store. OEM at the authorized car maker
dealer is way too expensive.

I never resurface, rotors are cheap enough to replace them every 3 or
4 years, or, every other brake pad change. OEM rotors, of course.

-- Tiago