Vacuum source?

Vacuum source?


I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
electrically? I may have access to a Roots blower that used to live on a
460 Ford.

I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable. It will
need to be harmless to the vacuum generator, aluminum and rubber and
possibly recoverable.

Finally, I'm interested in methods of precisely measuring in real-time the
mass ratio of liquid (the above mentioned liquid) to air.

Thanks.

Mike



--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?

On Sun, 18 May 2008 01:07:55 -0400, Mike W.
<outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote:

>
>I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
>continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
>electrically? I may have access to a Roots blower that used to live on a
>460 Ford.
>
>I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
>viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable. It will
>need to be harmless to the vacuum generator, aluminum and rubber and
>possibly recoverable.
>
>Finally, I'm interested in methods of precisely measuring in real-time the
>mass ratio of liquid (the above mentioned liquid) to air.

Just buy the new carbs. Jeez.


----
Team NCS Off Road
----

Re: Vacuum source?

On Sun, 18 May 2008 06:19:44 -0400, scrape <scrapeNOTHANKS@nc.rr,com >
wrote:

>On Sun, 18 May 2008 01:07:55 -0400, Mike W.
><outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote:
>
>>
>>I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
>>continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
>>electrically? I may have access to a Roots blower that used to live on a
>>460 Ford.
>>
>>I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
>>viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable. It will
>>need to be harmless to the vacuum generator, aluminum and rubber and
>>possibly recoverable.
>>
>>Finally, I'm interested in methods of precisely measuring in real-time the
>>mass ratio of liquid (the above mentioned liquid) to air.
>
>Just buy the new carbs. Jeez.

That is an outstanding solution to a different problem.

M

>
>
>----
>Team NCS Off Road
>----

--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?

On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:30:27 -0400, Mike W.
<outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote:

>>Just buy the new carbs. Jeez.
>
>That is an outstanding solution to a different problem.

Great.


----
Team NCS Off Road
----

Re: Vacuum source?


"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
news:r0bv24lrkp8e8adfc4o50s6nrh4vicuu2g@4ax,com ...
>
> I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
> continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
> electrically?

Regenerative blower.

>
> I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
> viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable.

Not a clue.

Re: Vacuum source?

On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:20:09 -0500, "Dave Smith" <abuse@sbcglobal,net >
wrote:

>
>"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
>news:r0bv24lrkp8e8adfc4o50s6nrh4vicuu2g@4ax,com ...
>>
>> I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
>> continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
>> electrically?
>
>Regenerative blower.

Those things'll work. Looks like I might need to unplug my stereo though
with the kind of juice those draw:)

>
>>
>> I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
>> viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable.
>
>Not a clue.

--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?


"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
news:c7733497pg3c1u2ojde08441s8efrptljl@4ax,com ...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:20:09 -0500, "Dave Smith" <abuse@sbcglobal,net >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
>>news:r0bv24lrkp8e8adfc4o50s6nrh4vicuu2g@4ax,com ...
>>>
>>> I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm
>>> paths
>>> continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish
>>> this
>>> electrically?
>>
>>Regenerative blower.
>
> Those things'll work. Looks like I might need to unplug my stereo though
> with the kind of juice those draw:)
>

Not as bad as you might think - between three and four horsepower for your
application.
http :// www .grainger,com /Grainger/items/6JD27
We use these from time to time, usually for medical vacuum. I've seen plenty
of these abandoned in place so finding a used one for cheap may (or may not)
be an option.

Re: Vacuum source?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:17:40 -0500, "Dave Smith" <abuse@sbcglobal,net >
wrote:

>
>"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
>news:c7733497pg3c1u2ojde08441s8efrptljl@4ax,com ...
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 17:20:09 -0500, "Dave Smith" <abuse@sbcglobal,net >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
>>>news:r0bv24lrkp8e8adfc4o50s6nrh4vicuu2g@4ax,com ...
>>>>
>>>> I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm
>>>> paths
>>>> continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish
>>>> this
>>>> electrically?
>>>
>>>Regenerative blower.
>>
>> Those things'll work. Looks like I might need to unplug my stereo though
>> with the kind of juice those draw:)
>>
>
>Not as bad as you might think - between three and four horsepower for your
>application.
> http :// www .grainger,com /Grainger/items/6JD27
>We use these from time to time, usually for medical vacuum. I've seen plenty
>of these abandoned in place so finding a used one for cheap may (or may not)
>be an option.

Sounds good to me... I've got a watch set up on EBay to let me know when
one of these things goes by. I'm still not sure I can hit my numbers with
"regular electricity". I gotta believe these things make some noise too,
but hopefully I can keep myself amused while I solve The Riddle of the
Carbs. .

M


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?

On May 18, 1:07 am, Mike W. <outof...@emailbiz,com > wrote:
> I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
> continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
> electrically? I may have access to a Roots blower that used to live on a
> 460 Ford.
>
> I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
> viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable. It will
> need to be harmless to the vacuum generator, aluminum and rubber and
> possibly recoverable.
>
> Finally, I'm interested in methods of precisely measuring in real-time the
> mass ratio of liquid (the above mentioned liquid) to air.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 70 CT70
> 71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
> 99 KZ1000P (training)
> 99 KZ1000P (rider)
> 00 Beta Rev-3


Yet another problem that can be efficiently solved with a small black
hole.

Mine lost its charge, its presently orbiting the core.


Of course, it'd be easier to find a pressure source with those specs
but you'll have to mount the carbs in the pressure vessel, as well as
the faux-fuel source.

Dave

Re: Vacuum source?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 05:08:32 -0700 (PDT), XR650L_Dave
<spamTHISbrp@yahoo,com > wrote:

>
>
>Yet another problem that can be efficiently solved with a small black
>hole.

I'll ask Santa:)

>
>Mine lost its charge, its presently orbiting the core.
>
>
>Of course, it'd be easier to find a pressure source with those specs
>but you'll have to mount the carbs in the pressure vessel, as well as
>the faux-fuel source.

Is there really a huge difference? There has to be a vacuum to make up for
it just upstream. Then again, from the POV of the carb, I wonder if it
would actually make a difference. Might make finding subtle leaks easier.

I had a new idea on when I woke up... There are two things left that can be
causing this and I can check them both without the immense vacuum... but I
want that system nonetheless.

M

>
>Dave

--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?


"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
news:r0bv24lrkp8e8adfc4o50s6nrh4vicuu2g@4ax,com ...
>
> I'm interested in pulling about 27 cfm at 23 in-Hg through four 34mm paths
> continuously. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to accomplish this
> electrically? I may have access to a Roots blower that used to live on a
> 460 Ford.
>
> I'm also interested in suggestions for a fluid that has very similar
> viscosity and surface tension to gas, but which is not flammable. It will
> need to be harmless to the vacuum generator, aluminum and rubber and
> possibly recoverable.
>
> Finally, I'm interested in methods of precisely measuring in real-time the
> mass ratio of liquid (the above mentioned liquid) to air.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 70 CT70
> 71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
> 99 KZ1000P (training)
> 99 KZ1000P (rider)
> 00 Beta Rev-3

the stuff I make is
100+cfm & 100" of h2o lift...
guessing Wal-Mart shop vac & a mass air flow sensor coupled to some pipes &
butterfly valve might be the ticket

that or go to church and look closely at the pipe organ.

watch building?? have you given though to slapping a holley pro-jection
closed loop kit on the kaw yet?
john

Re: Vacuum source?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 10:31:24 -0400, "john" <not@this.add> wrote:

>
>the stuff I make is
>100+cfm & 100" of h2o lift...

I remember your test video... I would think that if I didn't have air leaks
before, I would after:)

>guessing Wal-Mart shop vac & a mass air flow sensor coupled to some pipes &
>butterfly valve might be the ticket

Hmmmm..... that sounds COOL. It'll collect the fluid too... (got any
thoughts on the fluid requirements?)... Could run 4 into a common plenum to
average out pressure diffs (gotta have the SAME suck on all four holes). Do
these things pull hard enough? It's been 25 years since I HAD to apply
reynolds numbers to flow problems. Do they even apply in closed channels? I
hate getting old...

>
>that or go to church and look closely at the pipe organ.

Look at this organ...

http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw

I'm not a fan of what he does with his fingers, but you gotta admit, he's
got a big organ and at the end of the day, that's important (insert
reference to vacuum here).

With the infinity of YouTube and "promise" of democratized (stolen) media,
I STILL can't find a fucking video of The Man himself... E. Power Biggs. I
mean............. FUCK........... he could press keys and pedals... you
know? There is a nice video out there of Karl Richter too... he'd be the
Gwyneth of my organ jones if there hadn't been an E.

I should go look for some pictures of the Philadelphia organ... legendary
for it's size. I guess that's what counts.

>
>watch building?? have you given though to slapping a holley pro-jection
>closed loop kit on the kaw yet?

Right after I figure out how to get the height of the Roots under the roof
line of the Prius. Good idea.

Mike

"It's a shame about Liberaci dying"... "Yea.. he was a good piano player
but he sucked on the organ."

>john
>

--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?


"Mike W." <outofthe@emailbiz,com > wrote in message
news:br7334hlfnj9f0di0jhtoorhp2ik9ij5hf@4ax,com ...
> On Mon, 19 May 2008 10:31:24 -0400, "john" <not@this.add> wrote:
>
>>
>>the stuff I make is
>>100+cfm & 100" of h2o lift...
>
> I remember your test video... I would think that if I didn't have air
> leaks
> before, I would after:)
>
>>guessing Wal-Mart shop vac & a mass air flow sensor coupled to some pipes
>>&
>>butterfly valve might be the ticket
>
> Hmmmm..... that sounds COOL. It'll collect the fluid too... (got any
> thoughts on the fluid requirements?)... Could run 4 into a common plenum
> to
> average out pressure diffs (gotta have the SAME suck on all four holes).
> Do
> these things pull hard enough? It's been 25 years since I HAD to apply
> reynolds numbers to flow problems. Do they even apply in closed channels?
> I
> hate getting old...

look at headers they seem to worry about timmed engine pulsses & pressure..

how about whale oil instead of gas?

>
>>
>>that or go to church and look closely at the pipe organ.
>
> Look at this organ...
>
> http :// www .youtube,com /watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw
>
> I'm not a fan of what he does with his fingers, but you gotta admit, he's
> got a big organ and at the end of the day, that's important (insert
> reference to vacuum here).
>
> With the infinity of YouTube and "promise" of democratized (stolen) media,
> I STILL can't find a fucking video of The Man himself... E. Power Biggs. I
> mean............. FUCK........... he could press keys and pedals... you
> know? There is a nice video out there of Karl Richter too... he'd be the
> Gwyneth of my organ jones if there hadn't been an E.
>
wonder if my relative who collect those infernal noise makers has a vid of
biggs...i'll send the old guy a postcard & find out... he does have a killer
stereo in his suburban with ~ 2000 hymns on a hard drive..

> I should go look for some pictures of the Philadelphia organ... legendary
> for it's size. I guess that's what counts.
>
isn't there a big stinking one in jersey?

>>
>>watch building?? have you given though to slapping a holley pro-jection
>>closed loop kit on the kaw yet?
>
> Right after I figure out how to get the height of the Roots under the roof
> line of the Prius. Good idea.

adjust the oil pan to a wider instead of deeper to solve height issues....

>
> Mike
>
> "It's a shame about Liberaci dying"... "Yea.. he was a good piano player
> but he sucked on the organ."
>
<dang>
>>john
>>
>
> --
> Mike W.
> 96 XR400
> 70 CT70
> 71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
> 99 KZ1000P (training)
> 99 KZ1000P (rider)
> 00 Beta Rev-3

can I get a seat for the beta?
john
use gallon jug of wd40 instead of gas

Re: Vacuum source?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 13:21:19 -0400, "john" <not@this.add> wrote:

>> With the infinity of YouTube and "promise" of democratized (stolen) media,
>> I STILL can't find a fucking video of The Man himself... E. Power Biggs. I
>> mean............. FUCK........... he could press keys and pedals... you
>> know? There is a nice video out there of Karl Richter too... he'd be the
>> Gwyneth of my organ jones if there hadn't been an E.
>>
>wonder if my relative who collect those infernal noise makers has a vid of
>biggs...i'll send the old guy a postcard & find out... he does have a killer
>stereo in his suburban with ~ 2000 hymns on a hard drive..

Put me on your dist list if he has one!

I saw a Time-Life ad about Christian music tonight and have a theory about
the impossibility of career failure as a purveyor of Christian music. You
have to listen to what they're offering up as the A list on that ad. Pure
shit, but here's the thing.... the audience for that stuff is intrinsically
kind and accepting. You're not going to hear... "wow... that's pure
shit"... "Amen". So with that in mind, I am considering a career in
Christian comedy:

A family enters a talent agent's office... the father, mother, son and
daughter, along with the family dog... and Amy Grant. They are accompanied
by a sweaty, now-older Ken Norton pushing a large pot of boiling baby oil
and a man with a top hat and a whip riding a horse. The agent says "Sorry
folks, but we don't book family acts here"..

Let me flesh the rest of this out....

M


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3

Re: Vacuum source?

"Mike W." <ou
> I saw a Time-Life ad about Christian music tonight and have a theory about
> the impossibility of career failure as a purveyor of Christian music. You
> have to listen to what they're offering up as the A list on that ad. Pure
> shit, but here's the thing.... the audience for that stuff is
> intrinsically
> kind and accepting. You're not going to hear... "wow... that's pure
> shit"... "Amen". So with that in mind, I am considering a career in
> Christian comedy:
>

listening to johnny cash this moring...
he should have hooked up with LW

You wired me awake
And hit me with a hand of broken nails
You tied my lead and pulled my chain
To watch my blood begin to boil

But I'm gonna break
I'm gonna break my
I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run

Too cold to start a fire
I'm burning diesel, burning dinosaur bones
I'll take the river down to still water
And ride a pack of dogs

I'm gonna break
I'm gonna break my
I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run

Hits like a Phillips head Into my brain
It's gonna be too dark
To sleep again Cutting my teeth on bars
And rusty chains,
I'm gonna break my Rusty cage and run

When the forest burns
Along the road Like God's eyes In my headlights
When the dogs are looking
For their bones
And it's raining icepicks
On your steel shore

I'm gonna break
I'm gonna break my
I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run