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Tubeless tires

Reply from: XR650L_Dave
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 20:27
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 19, 10:02 am, Craig <googlegroupm...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> On Apr 19, 8:54 am, Eat Dirt <eatdirt...@gmail,com > wrote:
>
> > Lesson learned. It also re-emphasizes the point that not everything
> > that costs more to be better. I too learned this with the whole motor
> > oil thing.
>
> I've had fewer failures with HD tubes. Once I learned to stop
> tightening the nut on the valve stem to the rim I stopped tearing
> tubes at the stem.
>
> If I were racing MX, I think I'd stick with regular tubes as the HD
> ones can be very heavy. I always ran Moose HD tubes, but just bought a
> pair of Bridgestone HD tubes yesterday. I'm a bit concerned about how
> much they weigh.
>
> Craig



You know, I have had 2 mystery front valve-stem rip-outs in the past 2
years...

One apparently while the bike was sitting at home, not moving. I kid
you not. Rode it into the garage one week, a few weeks later went to
ride it and the front valve stem was ripped out of the tube. WTF?

I check my valvestems for leanage at least at the start of every ride,
and I know my front tire doesn't creep.

And the valve-cap locknut is always tight against the valvecap, not
the rim...


Dave

Reply from: JayC
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 21:13
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 21, 2:27 pm, XR650L Dave <spamTHIS...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> On Apr 19, 10:02 am, Craig <googlegroupm...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 19, 8:54 am, Eat Dirt <eatdirt...@gmail,com > wrote:
>
> > > Lesson learned. It also re-emphasizes the point that not everything
> > > that costs more to be better. I too learned this with the whole motor
> > > oil thing.
>
> > I've had fewer failures with HD tubes. Once I learned to stop
> > tightening the nut on the valve stem to the rim I stopped tearing
> > tubes at the stem.
>
> > If I were racing MX, I think I'd stick with regular tubes as the HD
> > ones can be very heavy. I always ran Moose HD tubes, but just bought a
> > pair of Bridgestone HD tubes yesterday. I'm a bit concerned about how
> > much they weigh.
>
> > Craig
>
> You know, I have had 2 mystery front valve-stem rip-outs in the past 2
> years...
>
> One apparently while the bike was sitting at home, not moving. I kid
> you not. Rode it into the garage one week, a few weeks later went to
> ride it and the front valve stem was ripped out of the tube. WTF?

Same gremlins that made my XR's shock spontaneously explode last
month, I'll bet.

> And the valve-cap locknut is always tight against the valvecap, not
> the rim...

Interesting - I always tighten my stem nut tight to the rim and never
tore a stem.

JayC

Reply from: XR650L_Dave
Date: 21 Apr 2008, 21:44
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 21, 3:13 pm, JayC <j...@sysmatrix,net > wrote:
> On Apr 21, 2:27 pm, XR650L Dave <spamTHIS...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 19, 10:02 am, Craig <googlegroupm...@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 19, 8:54 am, Eat Dirt <eatdirt...@gmail,com > wrote:
>
> > > > Lesson learned. It also re-emphasizes the point that not everything
> > > > that costs more to be better. I too learned this with the whole motor
> > > > oil thing.
>
> > > I've had fewer failures with HD tubes. Once I learned to stop
> > > tightening the nut on the valve stem to the rim I stopped tearing
> > > tubes at the stem.
>
> > > If I were racing MX, I think I'd stick with regular tubes as the HD
> > > ones can be very heavy. I always ran Moose HD tubes, but just bought a
> > > pair of Bridgestone HD tubes yesterday. I'm a bit concerned about how
> > > much they weigh.
>
> > > Craig
>
> > You know, I have had 2 mystery front valve-stem rip-outs in the past 2
> > years...
>
> > One apparently while the bike was sitting at home, not moving. I kid
> > you not. Rode it into the garage one week, a few weeks later went to
> > ride it and the front valve stem was ripped out of the tube. WTF?
>
> Same gremlins that made my XR's shock spontaneously explode last
> month, I'll bet.
>
> > And the valve-cap locknut is always tight against the valvecap, not
> > the rim...
>
> Interesting - I always tighten my stem nut tight to the rim and never
> tore a stem.
>
> JayC


My tires creep a little once in awhile- if the tires don't creep at
all, no stress will result if you have the nut torqued down, and no
rippage will occur.

Dave

Reply from: JayC
Date: 22 Apr 2008, 18:51
Re: Tubeless tires

> My tires creep a little once in awhile- if the tires don't creep at
> all, no stress will result if you have the nut torqued down, and no
> rippage will occur.

I also make liberal use of baby-powder to 'lube' the tube and inside
of the tire when I put a tire on. This probably helps too.

I look like the Michelin man after a tire change ;).

JayC

Reply from: XR650L_Dave
Date: 22 Apr 2008, 18:56
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 22, 12:51 pm, JayC <j...@sysmatrix,net > wrote:
> > My tires creep a little once in awhile- if the tires don't creep at
> > all, no stress will result if you have the nut torqued down, and no
> > rippage will occur.
>
> I also make liberal use of baby-powder to 'lube' the tube and inside
> of the tire when I put a tire on. This probably helps too.
>
> I look like the Michelin man after a tire change ;).
>
> JayC


My question on the baby powder is- 1st time you go through water and
the inside of the tire gets soaked, does the baby powder still help?


Dave

Reply from: Tim H
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 04:08
Re: Tubeless tires

"XR650L Dave" <spamTHISbrp@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:f6353cf2-135d-4960-afed-875cabdfa083@u69g2000hse.googlegroups,com ...
> On Apr 22, 12:51 pm, JayC <j...@sysmatrix,net > wrote:
>> > My tires creep a little once in awhile- if the tires don't creep at
>> > all, no stress will result if you have the nut torqued down, and no
>> > rippage will occur.
>>
>> I also make liberal use of baby-powder to 'lube' the tube and inside
>> of the tire when I put a tire on. This probably helps too.
>>
>> I look like the Michelin man after a tire change ;).
>>
>> JayC
>
>
> My question on the baby powder is- 1st time you go through water and
> the inside of the tire gets soaked, does the baby powder still help?

Not so much, really.
I did the baby powder thing for years, and would do it again before I'd put
a sticky bare tube in there. This past year, however, I've switched to using
ArmorAll on the tube and in the tire. I did this after seeing the inside of
Baxter's tires a couple of times, and always being impressed by how fresh it
looked in there. It seems to work really well, and doesn't develop any of
those little rubber balls or anything. Doesn't wash away with water either.
Less messy than powder, too.

Tim H


Reply from: XR650L_Dave
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 14:41
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 22, 10:08 pm, "Tim H" <Tim H...@somethingorother,com > wrote:
> "XR650L Dave" <spamTHIS...@yahoo,com > wrote in message
>
> news:f6353cf2-135d-4960-afed-875cabdfa083@u69g2000hse.googlegroups,com ...
>
> > On Apr 22, 12:51 pm, JayC <j...@sysmatrix,net > wrote:
> >> > My tires creep a little once in awhile- if the tires don't creep at
> >> > all, no stress will result if you have the nut torqued down, and no
> >> > rippage will occur.
>
> >> I also make liberal use of baby-powder to 'lube' the tube and inside
> >> of the tire when I put a tire on. This probably helps too.
>
> >> I look like the Michelin man after a tire change ;).
>
> >> JayC
>
> > My question on the baby powder is- 1st time you go through water and
> > the inside of the tire gets soaked, does the baby powder still help?
>
> Not so much, really.
> I did the baby powder thing for years, and would do it again before I'd put
> a sticky bare tube in there. This past year, however, I've switched to using
> ArmorAll on the tube and in the tire. I did this after seeing the inside of
> Baxter's tires a couple of times, and always being impressed by how fresh it
> looked in there. It seems to work really well, and doesn't develop any of
> those little rubber balls or anything. Doesn't wash away with water either.
> Less messy than powder, too.
>
> Tim H


Armor all? I saw someone use it on their seat, watched the seat crack
apart, and decided I had no use for armor-all.

It doesn't eventually harden up the rubber?


Dave

Reply from: JayC
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 18:37
Re: Tubeless tires

> Armor all? I saw someone use it on their seat, watched the seat crack
> apart, and decided I had no use for armor-all.
>
> It doesn't eventually harden up the rubber?

It causes accelarated aging due to oxidation. Evidently, sun + rubber
causes oxidation (ozone formation, or something like that). If the
part is in the sun, don't use it. Using it inside a tire to keep
things slippery...I know I'm going to regret saying this about
anything that came out of Baxter's head, but...brilliant!!

I'll still be using powder though - I've yet to ever get any of those
tube wear balls that everybody talks about, and I like the big white
cloud that accompanies tire work. Besides, when I'm done changing a
tire, my skin is silky smooth ;).

JayC

Reply from: HellSickle
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 16:13
Re: Tubeless tires


"Tim H" <Tim H@somethingorother,com > wrote in message
news:UcWdnaEL3qC2BpPVnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@comcast,com ...

> Not so much, really.
> I did the baby powder thing for years, and would do it again before I'd
> put a sticky bare tube in there. This past year, however, I've switched to
> using ArmorAll on the tube and in the tire. I did this after seeing the
> inside of Baxter's tires a couple of times, and always being impressed by
> how fresh it looked in there. It seems to work really well, and doesn't
> develop any of those little rubber balls or anything. Doesn't wash away
> with water either.
> Less messy than powder, too.

Hmmmm... I use armor-all on my tire beads instead of soapy water. I've
always been hesitant to use on tubes. Might give it a try.

-Jeff-



Reply from: XR650L_Dave
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 16:20
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 23, 10:13 am, "HellSickle" <jldnospamee...@comcast.spammer,net >
wrote:
> "Tim H" <Tim H...@somethingorother,com > wrote in messagenews:UcWdnaEL3qC2BpPVnZ2dnUVZ o3inZ2d@comcast,com ...
>
> > Not so much, really.
> > I did the baby powder thing for years, and would do it again before I'd
> > put a sticky bare tube in there. This past year, however, I've switched to
> > using ArmorAll on the tube and in the tire. I did this after seeing the
> > inside of Baxter's tires a couple of times, and always being impressed by
> > how fresh it looked in there. It seems to work really well, and doesn't
> > develop any of those little rubber balls or anything. Doesn't wash away
> > with water either.
> > Less messy than powder, too.
>
> Hmmmm... I use armor-all on my tire beads instead of soapy water. I've
> always been hesitant to use on tubes. Might give it a try.
>
> -Jeff-


It doesn't make the more tire more prone to slipping?

Or are you a dual-rimlock user?


Dave

Reply from: HellSickle
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 19:19
Re: Tubeless tires


"XR650L_Dave" <spamTHISbrp@yahoo,com > wrote in message
news:62df76cb-b00a-409a-b051-5b3a1c2d84cb@m36g2000hse.googlegroups,com ...

>> Hmmmm... I use armor-all on my tire beads instead of soapy water. I've
>> always been hesitant to use on tubes. Might give it a try.
>>
>> -Jeff-
>
>
> It doesn't make the more tire more prone to slipping?
>
> Or are you a dual-rimlock user?

Some of my bikes have single rim lock, some have dual. Never had a issue
with tires slipping. The armorall pretty much disappears. Since I heard
this trick from some A-enduro guys, I've been using it for the last 15
years.

Soapy water can be a Bad Thing. Any water trapped in the tire will
accelerate galvanic corrosion between the aluminum and steel parts.

-Jeff-



Reply from: Craig
Date: 23 Apr 2008, 19:05
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 23, 10:13 am, "HellSickle" <jldnospamee...@comcast.spammer,net >
wrote:

> Hmmmm...  I use armor-all on my tire beads instead of soapy water.  I've
> always been hesitant to use on tubes.  Might give it a try.

Am I the only one that installs tires dry?

I've used soap & water, WD40, liquid soap, spit and probably one or
two other things that I can't think of right now. The lube does make
it easier, but I really don't find it that hard to do dry. I figure
doing it that way is good practice for when I'm stuck on the trail
with nothing to use for lube. That and I usually forget about it 'til
I need it and at that point I don't feel like bothering with it.

I mounted tires* last night and used the Bridgestone UHD tubes for the
first time. They're a litte bit harder to work with than the HD Moose
tubes I'd been using.

*Not new tires. The front rim had a crack so I had to switch over to
my spare. While I was at it, I flipped the rear tire since the leading
edges of the knobs were worn.

Craig


Reply from: Wudsracer
Date: 22 Apr 2008, 04:19
Re: Tubeless tires

******************************************
>On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:27:45 -0700 (PDT), XR650L_Dave <spamTHISbrp@yahoo,com > wrote:

>You know, I have had 2 mystery front valve-stem rip-outs in the past 2
>years...
>
>One apparently while the bike was sitting at home, not moving. I kid
>you not. Rode it into the garage one week, a few weeks later went to
>ride it and the front valve stem was ripped out of the tube. WTF?
>
>I check my valvestems for leanage at least at the start of every ride,
>and I know my front tire doesn't creep.
>
>And the valve-cap locknut is always tight against the valvecap, not
>the rim...
>
>
>Dave
****************************************

Uhmmmm...... Dave,
How old are your children?

When Joshua turned 16, I had to take the starter off my street bike.
I kept seeing small differences in how it was parked.
It was always in the same place and position; and pointed in the same
direction as I left it. However, some faint tracks in the front yard
grass led me to start paying close attention to spoke position and a
few other small tattletales.

It sure pissed off Josh when I pulled the starter.


Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF


Reply from: john
Date: 22 Apr 2008, 04:30
Re: Tubeless tires

mice? big ones?
john
at least it wasn't a chainsaw


"Wudsracer" <babbaloo@Lucy,com > wrote in message
news:5fiq04turelne93su9hlvqqs2hfbd27sad@4ax,com ...
> ******************************************
> >On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:27:45 -0700 (PDT), XR650L_Dave
<spamTHISbrp@yahoo,com > wrote:
>
> >You know, I have had 2 mystery front valve-stem rip-outs in the past 2
> >years...
> >
> >One apparently while the bike was sitting at home, not moving. I kid
> >you not. Rode it into the garage one week, a few weeks later went to
> >ride it and the front valve stem was ripped out of the tube. WTF?
> >
> >I check my valvestems for leanage at least at the start of every ride,
> >and I know my front tire doesn't creep.
> >
> >And the valve-cap locknut is always tight against the valvecap, not
> >the rim...
> >
> >
> >Dave
> ****************************************
>
> Uhmmmm...... Dave,
> How old are your children?
>
> When Joshua turned 16, I had to take the starter off my street bike.
> I kept seeing small differences in how it was parked.
> It was always in the same place and position; and pointed in the same
> direction as I left it. However, some faint tracks in the front yard
> grass led me to start paying close attention to spoke position and a
> few other small tattletales.
>
> It sure pissed off Josh when I pulled the starter.
>
>
> Wudsracer/Jim Cook
> Smackover Racing
> '06 Gas Gas DE300
> '82 Husqvarna XC250
> Team LAGNAF
>



Reply from: XR650L_Dave
Date: 22 Apr 2008, 15:46
Re: Tubeless tires

On Apr 21, 10:19 pm, Wudsracer <babba...@Lucy,com > wrote:
> ******************************************
>
>
>
> >On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:27:45 -0700 (PDT), XR650L Dave <spamTHIS...@yahoo,com > wrote:
> >You know, I have had 2 mystery front valve-stem rip-outs in the past 2
> >years...
>
> >One apparently while the bike was sitting at home, not moving. I kid
> >you not. Rode it into the garage one week, a few weeks later went to
> >ride it and the front valve stem was ripped out of the tube. WTF?
>
> >I check my valvestems for leanage at least at the start of every ride,
> >and I know my front tire doesn't creep.
>
> >And the valve-cap locknut is always tight against the valvecap, not
> >the rim...
>
> >Dave
>
> ****************************************
>
> Uhmmmm...... Dave,
> How old are your children?
>
> When Joshua turned 16, I had to take the starter off my street bike.
> I kept seeing small differences in how it was parked.
> It was always in the same place and position; and pointed in the same
> direction as I left it. However, some faint tracks in the front yard
> grass led me to start paying close attention to spoke position and a
> few other small tattletales.
>
> It sure pissed off Josh when I pulled the starter.
>
> Wudsracer/Jim Cook
> Smackover Racing
> '06 Gas Gas DE300
> '82 Husqvarna XC250
> Team LAGNAF


Believe me, with what I used to do, these kids are going to have to be
pretty good to borrow my stuff.

But they're only 11 and 12- and too short to borrow the beastly XRL.
Besides, there's a big chain on it, and no one else knows the combo on
the lock. I even make sure to scramble the tumblers right after I
unlock the bike.


Dave


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