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Loose head bolt - need wrench help
Loose head bolt - need wrench help
First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
More rocker gasket nonsense going on around here. After the last replacement
I still had a leak so I pulled things apart this morning to see what was
going on. Hard to be sure where the leak is coming from as all the gaskets
are in one piece, but mating all the pieces up on the bench outta the bike,
the bottom rocker gasket doesn't seem to fit quite right. It's not sitting
in the groove all the way around, like it's too big.
Because I wasn't convinced of the source of the leak, and since I have a
complete set, I decided to replace the gasket between the rocker base and
the head as well.
But that's neither here nor there for this post...
While I had everything off the top of the head, I decided to give the head
bolts a twist with a standard wratchet, just for the hell of it. Good thing
I did. It turns out that the #3 bolt was loose enough to turn by hand!! The
other three are so tight that I can't budge them at all with the standard
wratchet.
Being sans torque wrench, I decided to just wratchet it down a little with
what I had in hand. I was intending on using the "make it tight, then apply
two grunts" method, but on the way to making it tight, it's making me
nervous. I got that feeling in my gut that it's gonna hit "stripped" before
it hits tight enough to apply even a single grunt.
It just keeps turning... hard and slow, but seemingly without stop, if you
know what I mean.
I'm heading up the street on a lead for a torque wrench in the neighborhood.
But before I need to apply 14-15 ft/lbs, shouldn't it be so tight as to no
longer be able to turn the bolt with a standard 1/2" wratchet and 1/2"
socket?
Would I be better off not tightening this one down, and instead breaking
down the whole jug for a better look, or am I just paranoid?
I'd prefer not to break it down at this time.
-Spanky
First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
More rocker gasket nonsense going on around here. After the last replacement
I still had a leak so I pulled things apart this morning to see what was
going on. Hard to be sure where the leak is coming from as all the gaskets
are in one piece, but mating all the pieces up on the bench outta the bike,
the bottom rocker gasket doesn't seem to fit quite right. It's not sitting
in the groove all the way around, like it's too big.
Because I wasn't convinced of the source of the leak, and since I have a
complete set, I decided to replace the gasket between the rocker base and
the head as well.
But that's neither here nor there for this post...
While I had everything off the top of the head, I decided to give the head
bolts a twist with a standard wratchet, just for the hell of it. Good thing
I did. It turns out that the #3 bolt was loose enough to turn by hand!! The
other three are so tight that I can't budge them at all with the standard
wratchet.
Being sans torque wrench, I decided to just wratchet it down a little with
what I had in hand. I was intending on using the "make it tight, then apply
two grunts" method, but on the way to making it tight, it's making me
nervous. I got that feeling in my gut that it's gonna hit "stripped" before
it hits tight enough to apply even a single grunt.
It just keeps turning... hard and slow, but seemingly without stop, if you
know what I mean.
I'm heading up the street on a lead for a torque wrench in the neighborhood.
But before I need to apply 14-15 ft/lbs, shouldn't it be so tight as to no
longer be able to turn the bolt with a standard 1/2" wratchet and 1/2"
socket?
Would I be better off not tightening this one down, and instead breaking
down the whole jug for a better look, or am I just paranoid?
I'd prefer not to break it down at this time.
-Spanky
Re: Loose head bolt - need wrench help
On Apr 20, 1:12 pm, "Spanky" <smarshallp...@gmail,com > wrote:
> First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
>
> More rocker gasket nonsense going on around here. After the last replacement
> I still had a leak so I pulled things apart this morning to see what was
> going on.
>
<snippage happens>
> But that's neither here nor there for this post...
Uh, Spank, just mebbe it IS...
Spanky went on:
>
> While I had everything off the top of the head, I decided to give the head
> bolts a twist with a standard wratchet, just for the hell of it. Good thing
> I did. It turns out that the #3 bolt was loose enough to turn by hand!! The
> other three are so tight that I can't budge them at all with the standard
> wratchet.
>
<whoops, snipped again>
>
> It just keeps turning... hard and slow, but seemingly without stop, if you
> know what I mean.
>
I know what you mean, Spanky. You can apply all the grunt in the
world, and that one bolt won't "squeak," tight.
> I'm heading up the street on a lead for a torque wrench in the neighborhood.
> But before I need to apply 14-15 ft/lbs, shouldn't it be so tight as to no
> longer be able to turn the bolt with a standard 1/2" ratchet and 1/2"
> socket?
>
> Would I be better off not tightening this one down, and instead breaking
> down the whole jug for a better look, or am I just paranoid?
>
> I'd prefer not to break it down at this time.
> -Spanky
Lemme tell you a story of my own, Spanky, and see if this applies:
Picture an archaic, old 74 UL Flathead front cylinder that keeps
blowing copper head gaskets, just over the inlet nipple, right in
front of the carb. It's easy enuf to replace the head gasket on a
Flathead; just remove the tanks and 9 bolts and whip a new one on and
put it back together. Except I went through about six head gaskets
over two or three years. Oh, well. It's easy to fix. Only happens
every couple o'months. Just a little inconvenience. And the price of
copper headgaskets.
One day, after about the umpteenth loss of compression in the front
cylinder and a "ffft, ffft!" as the engine ran, I finally decided to
look into this a little deeper and try and finger this thing out.
Situation was, I got eight headbolts of the famous, bastard 7/16ths by
16s headbolts as used on Knucks and Flats, ya know, to "grunt," squeak-
tight, and the one bolt right over the inlet nipple, where it alway
blew, never did. Always before, I just blew that fact off and
tightened it as far as-would-seem-wise and left it go. To blow again
in a couple of months of riding. Sound in any way familiar to yor
situation, Spanky?
This day, I decided to find out why that one headbolt wouldn't get
"grunt tight," and examined the hole it went into and the cylinder
around it very, very closely.
Yup, the iron cylinder was cracked. Not on the bore side, and not into
the top of inlet nipple, but the ledge the headbolt went into had a
hairline crack from the gasket surface straight down to daylight in
the cavity between the ledge and the top of the inlet nipple, on the
rearmost outer edge of the front cylinder! There's no way yer gonna
get "grunt" - "squeak" out of hole that opens wider as the bolt gets
tighter.
So, what-am-I-gonna-do? I reasoned that the bolt tightened up
sufficiently to seal the gasket when it was first put in, then the
stresses and vibration of running slowly backed the bolt out, only a
little, but enough to blow the gasket at that point. What do you do
to stop a bolt from backing out? You safety wire it!
I drilled a hole through the head of my bolt, and drilled another in a
convenient location in my top motor mount bracket (the same bolt also
secures the top motor mount), I reinstalled the head with a new gasket
and using proper safety-wiring procedure, insured that head won't turn
counter-clockwise until someone cuts the wire, and have been Happy
Motoring for years, since. Yeah, the front cylinder is still cracked,
but it's not going anywhere else, and I'm the only one who knows what
purpose that Ricky Racer safety wire is serving on my front cylinder
top motor mount bolt, and I'm not down, and apart, searching for a
replacement 1937 UL cylinder with (otherwise) not even a cracked fin.
I hope this little story helps you in your quest.
On Apr 20, 1:12 pm, "Spanky" <smarshallp...@gmail,com > wrote:
> First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
>
> More rocker gasket nonsense going on around here. After the last replacement
> I still had a leak so I pulled things apart this morning to see what was
> going on.
>
<snippage happens>
> But that's neither here nor there for this post...
Uh, Spank, just mebbe it IS...
Spanky went on:
>
> While I had everything off the top of the head, I decided to give the head
> bolts a twist with a standard wratchet, just for the hell of it. Good thing
> I did. It turns out that the #3 bolt was loose enough to turn by hand!! The
> other three are so tight that I can't budge them at all with the standard
> wratchet.
>
<whoops, snipped again>
>
> It just keeps turning... hard and slow, but seemingly without stop, if you
> know what I mean.
>
I know what you mean, Spanky. You can apply all the grunt in the
world, and that one bolt won't "squeak," tight.
> I'm heading up the street on a lead for a torque wrench in the neighborhood.
> But before I need to apply 14-15 ft/lbs, shouldn't it be so tight as to no
> longer be able to turn the bolt with a standard 1/2" ratchet and 1/2"
> socket?
>
> Would I be better off not tightening this one down, and instead breaking
> down the whole jug for a better look, or am I just paranoid?
>
> I'd prefer not to break it down at this time.
> -Spanky
Lemme tell you a story of my own, Spanky, and see if this applies:
Picture an archaic, old 74 UL Flathead front cylinder that keeps
blowing copper head gaskets, just over the inlet nipple, right in
front of the carb. It's easy enuf to replace the head gasket on a
Flathead; just remove the tanks and 9 bolts and whip a new one on and
put it back together. Except I went through about six head gaskets
over two or three years. Oh, well. It's easy to fix. Only happens
every couple o'months. Just a little inconvenience. And the price of
copper headgaskets.
One day, after about the umpteenth loss of compression in the front
cylinder and a "ffft, ffft!" as the engine ran, I finally decided to
look into this a little deeper and try and finger this thing out.
Situation was, I got eight headbolts of the famous, bastard 7/16ths by
16s headbolts as used on Knucks and Flats, ya know, to "grunt," squeak-
tight, and the one bolt right over the inlet nipple, where it alway
blew, never did. Always before, I just blew that fact off and
tightened it as far as-would-seem-wise and left it go. To blow again
in a couple of months of riding. Sound in any way familiar to yor
situation, Spanky?
This day, I decided to find out why that one headbolt wouldn't get
"grunt tight," and examined the hole it went into and the cylinder
around it very, very closely.
Yup, the iron cylinder was cracked. Not on the bore side, and not into
the top of inlet nipple, but the ledge the headbolt went into had a
hairline crack from the gasket surface straight down to daylight in
the cavity between the ledge and the top of the inlet nipple, on the
rearmost outer edge of the front cylinder! There's no way yer gonna
get "grunt" - "squeak" out of hole that opens wider as the bolt gets
tighter.
So, what-am-I-gonna-do? I reasoned that the bolt tightened up
sufficiently to seal the gasket when it was first put in, then the
stresses and vibration of running slowly backed the bolt out, only a
little, but enough to blow the gasket at that point. What do you do
to stop a bolt from backing out? You safety wire it!
I drilled a hole through the head of my bolt, and drilled another in a
convenient location in my top motor mount bracket (the same bolt also
secures the top motor mount), I reinstalled the head with a new gasket
and using proper safety-wiring procedure, insured that head won't turn
counter-clockwise until someone cuts the wire, and have been Happy
Motoring for years, since. Yeah, the front cylinder is still cracked,
but it's not going anywhere else, and I'm the only one who knows what
purpose that Ricky Racer safety wire is serving on my front cylinder
top motor mount bolt, and I'm not down, and apart, searching for a
replacement 1937 UL cylinder with (otherwise) not even a cracked fin.
I hope this little story helps you in your quest.
Re: Loose head bolt - need wrench help
Spanky wrote:
> First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
Thanks.
<snip>
> I'm heading up the street on a lead for a torque wrench in the
> neighborhood. But before I need to apply 14-15 ft/lbs, shouldn't it
> be so tight as to no longer be able to turn the bolt with a standard
> 1/2" wratchet and 1/2" socket?
14-15 Ft-Lbs is not very tight. You can easily exceed that by hand with
those tools.
Sounds like it was stripped when you found it. I've seen screws back out a
hair and then the vibration of the
running motor uses the steel screw threads to clean the threads out of the
aluminum part in teeny tiny shavings. Helicoil or keensert time.
G'luck.
--
Don
Concede to idiot cagers. Right of Way is irrelevant during the
collision. No bozo to reply
Spanky wrote:
> First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
Thanks.
<snip>
> I'm heading up the street on a lead for a torque wrench in the
> neighborhood. But before I need to apply 14-15 ft/lbs, shouldn't it
> be so tight as to no longer be able to turn the bolt with a standard
> 1/2" wratchet and 1/2" socket?
14-15 Ft-Lbs is not very tight. You can easily exceed that by hand with
those tools.
Sounds like it was stripped when you found it. I've seen screws back out a
hair and then the vibration of the
running motor uses the steel screw threads to clean the threads out of the
aluminum part in teeny tiny shavings. Helicoil or keensert time.
G'luck.
--
Don
Concede to idiot cagers. Right of Way is irrelevant during the
collision. No bozo to reply
Re: Loose head bolt - need wrench help
On Apr 20, 4:33 pm, "Stingy Bastard" <321bozocat...@comcast,net >
wrote:
> Spanky wrote:
> > First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sounds like it was stripped when you found it. I've seen screws back out a
> hair and then the vibration of the
> running motor uses the steel screw threads to clean the threads out of the
> aluminum part in teeny tiny shavings. Helicoil or keensert time.
>
I've got a nay on the helicoil, so an insert it shall be.
Shirley, another round over here. Thanks.
-Spanky
On Apr 20, 4:33 pm, "Stingy Bastard" <321bozocat...@comcast,net >
wrote:
> Spanky wrote:
> > First; let's not be thirsty around here. A round on me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sounds like it was stripped when you found it. I've seen screws back out a
> hair and then the vibration of the
> running motor uses the steel screw threads to clean the threads out of the
> aluminum part in teeny tiny shavings. Helicoil or keensert time.
>
I've got a nay on the helicoil, so an insert it shall be.
Shirley, another round over here. Thanks.
-Spanky
