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Ulrich got a bye?
Ulrich got a bye?
* w w w .cyclenews . com /testride/latestissue.html
Abram's article in this weeks CN, more muck raking, or did Ulrich use
his stature as a board member to get away with something?
Page 88 I believe, check it out...
* w w w .cyclenews . com /testride/latestissue.html
Abram's article in this weeks CN, more muck raking, or did Ulrich use
his stature as a board member to get away with something?
Page 88 I believe, check it out...
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
T3 points to:
> * w w w .cyclenews . com /testride/latestissue.html
That ain't a bye, that's buying a judge.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
T3 points to:
> * w w w .cyclenews . com /testride/latestissue.html
That ain't a bye, that's buying a judge.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
On 2008-04-10 10:31:49 -0400, sturd <mikesturdevant127@hotmail . com > said:
> T3 points to:
>
>> * w w w .cyclenews . com /testride/latestissue.html
>
> That ain't a bye, that's buying a judge.
>
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.
You may well be right, though on the other hand it might've been one of
those side deals like the Gixxr breathers last year, but what I thought
was interesting was that nobody heard squat about the infraction and
resulting fine till now, which, by the way, wasn't even a slap on the
wrist. $2k? A halfass hotel suite on the beach costs about that much
for Speedweek and where was all that righteous indignation we've come
to expect in RRW? I bet Erion is paying close attention to this, though
I do understand there's a big difference, not only between a trick
crank and an oil plug, but a win versus 5th place. That aside, I'm
pretty sure Erion would've been happy to have been able to write a
check too. It's just another thing DMG will have to undo and what I
hope will happen is that whatever rules they come up are not only
totally transparent, but come with a "X" strikes and you're outta' here
clause. If DMG is going to make US M/C Racing, team, or rider centric
they better get on top of this kinda' shit from the get go, otherwise
it'll end up a clusterfuck faster than you can say Yoshimura...
BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
On 2008-04-10 10:31:49 -0400, sturd <mikesturdevant127@hotmail . com > said:
> T3 points to:
>
>> * w w w .cyclenews . com /testride/latestissue.html
>
> That ain't a bye, that's buying a judge.
>
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.
You may well be right, though on the other hand it might've been one of
those side deals like the Gixxr breathers last year, but what I thought
was interesting was that nobody heard squat about the infraction and
resulting fine till now, which, by the way, wasn't even a slap on the
wrist. $2k? A halfass hotel suite on the beach costs about that much
for Speedweek and where was all that righteous indignation we've come
to expect in RRW? I bet Erion is paying close attention to this, though
I do understand there's a big difference, not only between a trick
crank and an oil plug, but a win versus 5th place. That aside, I'm
pretty sure Erion would've been happy to have been able to write a
check too. It's just another thing DMG will have to undo and what I
hope will happen is that whatever rules they come up are not only
totally transparent, but come with a "X" strikes and you're outta' here
clause. If DMG is going to make US M/C Racing, team, or rider centric
they better get on top of this kinda' shit from the get go, otherwise
it'll end up a clusterfuck faster than you can say Yoshimura...
BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar . com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: * w w w .ecademy . com / T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: * w w w .voidstar . com / skype:julian.bond?chat
Tastes Like Milk
T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar . com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: * w w w .ecademy . com / T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: * w w w .voidstar . com / skype:julian.bond?chat
Tastes Like Milk
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
Julian Bond note:
> >BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>
> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
No-no, that letter was in response to Mark N's letter last week
whinging about all the guys that aren't fat americans.
I thought Editor Carruthers response then was perfect:
"my dad weighed 130 lbs soaking wet"
that being Kel Carruthers and making the point
it's always been this way.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
Julian Bond note:
> >BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>
> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
No-no, that letter was in response to Mark N's letter last week
whinging about all the guys that aren't fat americans.
I thought Editor Carruthers response then was perfect:
"my dad weighed 130 lbs soaking wet"
that being Kel Carruthers and making the point
it's always been this way.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
On 2008-04-10 14:40:07 -0400, sturd <mikesturdevant127@hotmail . com > said:
> Julian Bond note:
>
>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>
>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>
> No-no, that letter was in response to Mark N's letter last week
> whinging about all the guys that aren't fat americans.
>
> I thought Editor Carruthers response then was perfect:
> "my dad weighed 130 lbs soaking wet"
> that being Kel Carruthers and making the point
> it's always been this way.
>
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.
Sure it has, in fact, almost all those guys had to run around in the
shower just to get wet, that said, 350lb 240hp bikes with TC were a
pipe dream back then too. Does he have a valid point? On straight away
speed and tire wear, maybe, but does it really alter anything? I'm not
sold on that, yet...
On 2008-04-10 14:40:07 -0400, sturd <mikesturdevant127@hotmail . com > said:
> Julian Bond note:
>
>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>
>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>
> No-no, that letter was in response to Mark N's letter last week
> whinging about all the guys that aren't fat americans.
>
> I thought Editor Carruthers response then was perfect:
> "my dad weighed 130 lbs soaking wet"
> that being Kel Carruthers and making the point
> it's always been this way.
>
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.
Sure it has, in fact, almost all those guys had to run around in the
shower just to get wet, that said, 350lb 240hp bikes with TC were a
pipe dream back then too. Does he have a valid point? On straight away
speed and tire wear, maybe, but does it really alter anything? I'm not
sold on that, yet...
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
sturd kisses Euro-ass:
> Julian Bond note:
>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>
> No-no, that letter was in response to Mark N's letter last week
> whinging about all the guys that aren't fat americans.
So you're saying that Hayden, Edwards, et al are fat? Now THAT's funny. [1]
> I thought Editor Carruthers response then was perfect:
> "my dad weighed 130 lbs soaking wet" that being Kel Carruthers
He said 135 pounds, actually...
and making the point
> it's always been this way.
So Carruthers was 250 champion almost 40 years ago, right? How long has
it been since a rider at 135 pounds or more has won a 250 GP race? [2]
How long has it been since a rider at 135 pounds or more has won that
championship? [3]
So, Mike, do you recall making this statement about MotoGP?: "There's
almost certainly a 'best' size. I'm guessing it's around 5' 10", 160
lbs. Real close to Hayden and Rossi's size". [4] Do you realize that
there isn't a single rider in MotoGP that weighs 160 pounds today? Hell,
there probably are only one or two that are over 150 pounds. But by my
count 8 of 18 riders weight 130 pounds or less. And I think Rossi is the
only rider over 5-10. Do you remember the last time a rider over 150
pounds won a race in MotoGP? [5] How about 160? "It's always been this
way"??
Actually, what he was saying is it's always been the case that less
rider weight trumps more weight in bike racing, and he acknowledged that
in the past GP riders weren't quite as small as they are now. Yet your
argument has always been the opposite of that, that there is no evidence
that smaller, lighter riders are at any advantage overall. Right?
What Carruthers was really doing was poo-pooing the whole thing, not
willing to acknowledge the degree of this drop in rider size or the
reasons it's happening, and certainly not the complicity of GP scribes
in not commenting on it. And he made some quite misleading statements
without factual support. No wonder you liked it.
No matter, he got a response from me on that today - we'll see if he's
got the 'nads to publish that one. But, hey, he's running a mag on
bikes, he's gotta write about something...
[1] Full exchange, 7/3/06:
Champ: Ha! Now I know you're a comedian - you're suggesting that riders
from the nation with the highest obesity rates on earth needs a
handicapping system for rider weight. That's funny!
Sturd: So you're saying that Hayden, Edwards, et al are fat? Now THAT's
funny.
[2] Not since at least July 2005, when de Puniet (now listed at 139
pounds) won at Donington. Since then eleven riders under 130 pounds have
won 43 straight GPs. But perhaps not since Rolfo won at Jerez four years
ago.
[3] Not certain, but at least six years (Melandri, listed at 141 pounds
now, won in 2002 at age 20) and perhaps nine (Rossi, now listed at 148
pounds, won in 1999).
[4] 9/27/06, "pics of the 800s".
[5] Probably Alex Barros, Estoril, April 2005, 53 races ago.
sturd kisses Euro-ass:
> Julian Bond note:
>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>
> No-no, that letter was in response to Mark N's letter last week
> whinging about all the guys that aren't fat americans.
So you're saying that Hayden, Edwards, et al are fat? Now THAT's funny. [1]
> I thought Editor Carruthers response then was perfect:
> "my dad weighed 130 lbs soaking wet" that being Kel Carruthers
He said 135 pounds, actually...
and making the point
> it's always been this way.
So Carruthers was 250 champion almost 40 years ago, right? How long has
it been since a rider at 135 pounds or more has won a 250 GP race? [2]
How long has it been since a rider at 135 pounds or more has won that
championship? [3]
So, Mike, do you recall making this statement about MotoGP?: "There's
almost certainly a 'best' size. I'm guessing it's around 5' 10", 160
lbs. Real close to Hayden and Rossi's size". [4] Do you realize that
there isn't a single rider in MotoGP that weighs 160 pounds today? Hell,
there probably are only one or two that are over 150 pounds. But by my
count 8 of 18 riders weight 130 pounds or less. And I think Rossi is the
only rider over 5-10. Do you remember the last time a rider over 150
pounds won a race in MotoGP? [5] How about 160? "It's always been this
way"??
Actually, what he was saying is it's always been the case that less
rider weight trumps more weight in bike racing, and he acknowledged that
in the past GP riders weren't quite as small as they are now. Yet your
argument has always been the opposite of that, that there is no evidence
that smaller, lighter riders are at any advantage overall. Right?
What Carruthers was really doing was poo-pooing the whole thing, not
willing to acknowledge the degree of this drop in rider size or the
reasons it's happening, and certainly not the complicity of GP scribes
in not commenting on it. And he made some quite misleading statements
without factual support. No wonder you liked it.
No matter, he got a response from me on that today - we'll see if he's
got the 'nads to publish that one. But, hey, he's running a mag on
bikes, he's gotta write about something...
[1] Full exchange, 7/3/06:
Champ: Ha! Now I know you're a comedian - you're suggesting that riders
from the nation with the highest obesity rates on earth needs a
handicapping system for rider weight. That's funny!
Sturd: So you're saying that Hayden, Edwards, et al are fat? Now THAT's
funny.
[2] Not since at least July 2005, when de Puniet (now listed at 139
pounds) won at Donington. Since then eleven riders under 130 pounds have
won 43 straight GPs. But perhaps not since Rolfo won at Jerez four years
ago.
[3] Not certain, but at least six years (Melandri, listed at 141 pounds
now, won in 2002 at age 20) and perhaps nine (Rossi, now listed at 148
pounds, won in 1999).
[4] 9/27/06, "pics of the 800s".
[5] Probably Alex Barros, Estoril, April 2005, 53 races ago.
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>
> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
"The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
tires."
* roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>
> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
"The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
tires."
* roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
T3 wrote:
> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
>
>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>
>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>
> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>
> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
> the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>
> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
> tires."
>
> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>
> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>
I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
According to American Suzuki sources who participated
in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
Bruce
T3 wrote:
> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
>
>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>
>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>
> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>
> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
> the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>
> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
> tires."
>
> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>
> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>
I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
According to American Suzuki sources who participated
in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
Bruce
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
Bruce Hartweg wrote:
> the Daytona Buttplug wrote:
>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to
>> advance the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>
>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>> tires."
>>
>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>
>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>
> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>
> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
If DMG is proposing dumping all 1000s and switching to middleweight SBs
and some lame-ass endurance class that doesn't feature their top
sportbikes, I can see all of the Japanese factories blowing a very loud
raspberry at this. And I certainly hope they do - I'm not any more
interested in that than they are. I suppose they'd also include some
sort of SSport class as well, but that really doesn't sound like a very
compelling show. And of course it's all driven by Daytona, where they
know they can't make a 1000cc SB class work on the banking in the 200.
Makes me wonder if any of the losers in the AMA sweepstakes are going to
be getting together with the bike OEMs and Dunlop to talk about a
competing series. If some of those guys could get the factories on
board and then start selling it to the tracks, this whole NASBike thing
could come unraveled very quickly. Really what the DMG guys would have
going for them is their leverage with some of the tracks regarding other
series they bring in (isn't monopoly power great?), and not sure how
that might play out. But we could very quickly see the formation of an
alternative series which includes all the factories and factory riders
and doesn't look that different from the AMA/BSB/WSB in class structure
and is only missing Daytona. As long as they could fill out the grids,
it would have it all over NASBike, which would pretty much just be the
same old Moto-ST thing and a bunch of privateers on 600s and crap tires.
If you were a promoter, which one would you want?
Bruce Hartweg wrote:
> the Daytona Buttplug wrote:
>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to
>> advance the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>
>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>> tires."
>>
>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>
>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>
> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>
> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
If DMG is proposing dumping all 1000s and switching to middleweight SBs
and some lame-ass endurance class that doesn't feature their top
sportbikes, I can see all of the Japanese factories blowing a very loud
raspberry at this. And I certainly hope they do - I'm not any more
interested in that than they are. I suppose they'd also include some
sort of SSport class as well, but that really doesn't sound like a very
compelling show. And of course it's all driven by Daytona, where they
know they can't make a 1000cc SB class work on the banking in the 200.
Makes me wonder if any of the losers in the AMA sweepstakes are going to
be getting together with the bike OEMs and Dunlop to talk about a
competing series. If some of those guys could get the factories on
board and then start selling it to the tracks, this whole NASBike thing
could come unraveled very quickly. Really what the DMG guys would have
going for them is their leverage with some of the tracks regarding other
series they bring in (isn't monopoly power great?), and not sure how
that might play out. But we could very quickly see the formation of an
alternative series which includes all the factories and factory riders
and doesn't look that different from the AMA/BSB/WSB in class structure
and is only missing Daytona. As long as they could fill out the grids,
it would have it all over NASBike, which would pretty much just be the
same old Moto-ST thing and a bunch of privateers on 600s and crap tires.
If you were a promoter, which one would you want?
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
On 2008-04-11 09:16:34 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
> T3 wrote:
>> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
>>
>>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>>
>>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>>
>> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>>
>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
>> the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>
>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>> tires."
>>
>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>
>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>
> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>
> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
>
> Bruce
I toldya folks might be surprised how the new boys could reel Yosh in
and trust me, that would certainly do it! Heh, heh I can hear it now,
"you Suz's people have spent years developing one hell of a 1000cc
platform, but ya' know what? We're not interested. Sorry 'bout yer'
luck!" (OUCH!)
And while some, or rather "one" (in this particular forum) may try to
advance the crazyass notion of some outlaw series in opposition to DMG
there's very little, or no chance of anything like that happening and
for a variety of reasons too. First and foremost would be where, as
there isn't a track, or for that matter, a promotor in their right mind
that would entertain that idea for a second, even in private and
bringing NASCAR's treasurer along kinda' spoke volumes along those
lines. I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm sorta' gettin' off on this,
someone finally and evidently firmly, putting the OEM's in their place.
Like Edmondson said earlier, those days are over and that train left
the station when we showed up..
It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these
guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also
wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely
successful in their past endeavors..
BTW, more strong rumors of late about DMG grabbing SX too and that
would not only solidify their stranglehold on M/C racing, but on the
factories too. I dunno' for certain, but I'm thinkin' all this may get
pretty loud before it's settled, stay tuned...
On 2008-04-11 09:16:34 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
> T3 wrote:
>> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
>>
>>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>>
>>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>>
>> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>>
>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
>> the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>
>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>> tires."
>>
>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>
>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>
> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>
> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
>
> Bruce
I toldya folks might be surprised how the new boys could reel Yosh in
and trust me, that would certainly do it! Heh, heh I can hear it now,
"you Suz's people have spent years developing one hell of a 1000cc
platform, but ya' know what? We're not interested. Sorry 'bout yer'
luck!" (OUCH!)
And while some, or rather "one" (in this particular forum) may try to
advance the crazyass notion of some outlaw series in opposition to DMG
there's very little, or no chance of anything like that happening and
for a variety of reasons too. First and foremost would be where, as
there isn't a track, or for that matter, a promotor in their right mind
that would entertain that idea for a second, even in private and
bringing NASCAR's treasurer along kinda' spoke volumes along those
lines. I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm sorta' gettin' off on this,
someone finally and evidently firmly, putting the OEM's in their place.
Like Edmondson said earlier, those days are over and that train left
the station when we showed up..
It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these
guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also
wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely
successful in their past endeavors..
BTW, more strong rumors of late about DMG grabbing SX too and that
would not only solidify their stranglehold on M/C racing, but on the
factories too. I dunno' for certain, but I'm thinkin' all this may get
pretty loud before it's settled, stay tuned...
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
T3 wrote:
> On 2008-04-11 09:16:34 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>
>> T3 wrote:
>>> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com >
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>>>
>>>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>>>
>>> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>>>
>>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to
>>> advance the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>>
>>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>>> tires."
>>>
>>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>>
>>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>>
>> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>>
>> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
>> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
>> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
>> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
>> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
>> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
>>
>> Bruce
>
> I toldya folks might be surprised how the new boys could reel Yosh in
> and trust me, that would certainly do it! Heh, heh I can hear it now,
> "you Suz's people have spent years developing one hell of a 1000cc
> platform, but ya' know what? We're not interested. Sorry 'bout yer'
> luck!" (OUCH!)
if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
>
> And while some, or rather "one" (in this particular forum) may try to
> advance the crazyass notion of some outlaw series in opposition to DMG
> there's very little, or no chance of anything like that happening and
> for a variety of reasons too. First and foremost would be where, as
> there isn't a track, or for that matter, a promotor in their right mind
> that would entertain that idea for a second, even in private and
> bringing NASCAR's treasurer along kinda' spoke volumes along those
> lines. I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm sorta' gettin' off on this,
> someone finally and evidently firmly, putting the OEM's in their place.
> Like Edmondson said earlier, those days are over and that train left the
> station when we showed up..
I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as well
> as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has occurred
> and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little bumpy, ride.
> Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these guys not only
> have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also wrote the book
> on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely successful in
> their past endeavors..
>
Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
>
> BTW, more strong rumors of late about DMG grabbing SX too and that would
> not only solidify their stranglehold on M/C racing, but on the factories
> too. I dunno' for certain, but I'm thinkin' all this may get pretty loud
> before it's settled, stay tuned...
>
Bruce
T3 wrote:
> On 2008-04-11 09:16:34 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>
>> T3 wrote:
>>> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com >
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>>>
>>>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>>>
>>> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>>>
>>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to
>>> advance the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>>
>>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>>> tires."
>>>
>>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>>
>>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>>
>> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>>
>> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
>> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
>> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
>> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
>> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
>> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
>>
>> Bruce
>
> I toldya folks might be surprised how the new boys could reel Yosh in
> and trust me, that would certainly do it! Heh, heh I can hear it now,
> "you Suz's people have spent years developing one hell of a 1000cc
> platform, but ya' know what? We're not interested. Sorry 'bout yer'
> luck!" (OUCH!)
if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
>
> And while some, or rather "one" (in this particular forum) may try to
> advance the crazyass notion of some outlaw series in opposition to DMG
> there's very little, or no chance of anything like that happening and
> for a variety of reasons too. First and foremost would be where, as
> there isn't a track, or for that matter, a promotor in their right mind
> that would entertain that idea for a second, even in private and
> bringing NASCAR's treasurer along kinda' spoke volumes along those
> lines. I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm sorta' gettin' off on this,
> someone finally and evidently firmly, putting the OEM's in their place.
> Like Edmondson said earlier, those days are over and that train left the
> station when we showed up..
I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as well
> as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has occurred
> and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little bumpy, ride.
> Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these guys not only
> have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also wrote the book
> on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely successful in
> their past endeavors..
>
Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
>
> BTW, more strong rumors of late about DMG grabbing SX too and that would
> not only solidify their stranglehold on M/C racing, but on the factories
> too. I dunno' for certain, but I'm thinkin' all this may get pretty loud
> before it's settled, stay tuned...
>
Bruce
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
On 2008-04-11 15:41:49 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
> T3 wrote:
>> On 2008-04-11 09:16:34 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>>
>>> T3 wrote:
>>>> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
>>>>
>>>>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>>>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>>>>
>>>> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>>>>
>>>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
>>>> the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>>>
>>>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>>>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>>>> tires."
>>>>
>>>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>>>
>>>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>>>
>>> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>>>
>>> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
>>> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
>>> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
>>> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
>>> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
>>> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>
>> I toldya folks might be surprised how the new boys could reel Yosh in
>> and trust me, that would certainly do it! Heh, heh I can hear it now,
>> "you Suz's people have spent years developing one hell of a 1000cc
>> platform, but ya' know what? We're not interested. Sorry 'bout yer'
>> luck!" (OUCH!)
>
> if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
Look Bruce, don't get me wrong I like fast haulass bikes as much as the
next guy, but destroy what series? A series that was only used by the
OEM's to hawk their wares? To me, that isn't a series, it's only
advertisement by and only for the OEM's in the name of racing. And it
doesn't matter anyway, these guys are gonna do whatever it is they so
desire. Neither of us may end up liking it, but unless we've got a
shitload of money I forgot about there isn't a damn thing either one of
us can do except see if it's something we can live with *WHEN* it
finally happens. That said, I really think a lot of what we're hearing
is just so much posturing, or politics and I take what Ulrich's rag
offers on all this with a grain of salt given his involvement with
Suzuki..
Oh wait, looks like the infighting's already begun. I toldya this was
prolly gonna get loud, check this out..
* roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32013
>
>>
>> And while some, or rather "one" (in this particular forum) may try to
>> advance the crazyass notion of some outlaw series in opposition to DMG
>> there's very little, or no chance of anything like that happening and
>> for a variety of reasons too. First and foremost would be where, as
>> there isn't a track, or for that matter, a promotor in their right mind
>> that would entertain that idea for a second, even in private and
>> bringing NASCAR's treasurer along kinda' spoke volumes along those
>> lines. I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm sorta' gettin' off on this,
>> someone finally and evidently firmly, putting the OEM's in their place.
>> Like Edmondson said earlier, those days are over and that train left
>> the station when we showed up..
>
> I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
> I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
What, you think they build those things for fun? So, how far do you
think they'll run? As I said month's ago, they'll prolly pitch a fit,
piss and moan, but in the end they're aware they need racing more than
racing needs them. They may go for a while, just not long and on that
I'd bet real money..
>
>> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
>> well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
>> occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
>> bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these
>> guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also
>> wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely
>> successful in their past endeavors..
>>
>
> Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
> it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
Again, relax, just understand improvement never comes without change
and don't forget this all happened because of the OEM's dominance of
AMA, not because they cared, or really gave a shit about the "racing."
They're in racing to sell their stuff and little else and that's not
flogging, it's reality..
On 2008-04-11 15:41:49 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
> T3 wrote:
>> On 2008-04-11 09:16:34 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>>
>>> T3 wrote:
>>>> On 2008-04-10 13:48:16 -0400, Julian Bond <julian_bond@voidstar . com > said:
>>>>
>>>>> T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:29:49
>>>>>> BTW, you check out page 4? I almost puked...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hah! So Mark N has a pen name of John Dickinson. Who knew?
>>>>
>>>> Funny thing, that was my first thought too...
>>>>
>>>> Check this out, it appears that DMG might actually be trying to advance
>>>> the notion of a 600cc class SB class..
>>>>
>>>> "The sources said that the proposed 2009 DMG program will include a
>>>> 600cc Superbike class and the MOTO-ST class, with spec fuel and spec
>>>> tires."
>>>>
>>>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32002
>>>>
>>>> I can imagine the Suzuki/Yosh guys coming unglued at that!!!
>>>>
>>> I don't think you need imagine much - I liked this :
>>>
>>> According to American Suzuki sources who participated
>>> in the meeting at the company's headquarters in Brea,
>>> the DMG delegation received a generally hostile reaction
>>> to a proposed new class structure to take effect in 2009,
>>> complete with a threat that the company may pull out of
>>> AMA road racing altogether at the end of the 2008 season.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>
>> I toldya folks might be surprised how the new boys could reel Yosh in
>> and trust me, that would certainly do it! Heh, heh I can hear it now,
>> "you Suz's people have spent years developing one hell of a 1000cc
>> platform, but ya' know what? We're not interested. Sorry 'bout yer'
>> luck!" (OUCH!)
>
> if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
Look Bruce, don't get me wrong I like fast haulass bikes as much as the
next guy, but destroy what series? A series that was only used by the
OEM's to hawk their wares? To me, that isn't a series, it's only
advertisement by and only for the OEM's in the name of racing. And it
doesn't matter anyway, these guys are gonna do whatever it is they so
desire. Neither of us may end up liking it, but unless we've got a
shitload of money I forgot about there isn't a damn thing either one of
us can do except see if it's something we can live with *WHEN* it
finally happens. That said, I really think a lot of what we're hearing
is just so much posturing, or politics and I take what Ulrich's rag
offers on all this with a grain of salt given his involvement with
Suzuki..
Oh wait, looks like the infighting's already begun. I toldya this was
prolly gonna get loud, check this out..
* roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32013
>
>>
>> And while some, or rather "one" (in this particular forum) may try to
>> advance the crazyass notion of some outlaw series in opposition to DMG
>> there's very little, or no chance of anything like that happening and
>> for a variety of reasons too. First and foremost would be where, as
>> there isn't a track, or for that matter, a promotor in their right mind
>> that would entertain that idea for a second, even in private and
>> bringing NASCAR's treasurer along kinda' spoke volumes along those
>> lines. I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I'm sorta' gettin' off on this,
>> someone finally and evidently firmly, putting the OEM's in their place.
>> Like Edmondson said earlier, those days are over and that train left
>> the station when we showed up..
>
> I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
> I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
What, you think they build those things for fun? So, how far do you
think they'll run? As I said month's ago, they'll prolly pitch a fit,
piss and moan, but in the end they're aware they need racing more than
racing needs them. They may go for a while, just not long and on that
I'd bet real money..
>
>> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
>> well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
>> occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
>> bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these
>> guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also
>> wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely
>> successful in their past endeavors..
>>
>
> Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
> it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
Again, relax, just understand improvement never comes without change
and don't forget this all happened because of the OEM's dominance of
AMA, not because they cared, or really gave a shit about the "racing."
They're in racing to sell their stuff and little else and that's not
flogging, it's reality..
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
T3 wrote:
> On 2008-04-11 15:41:49 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>
>> if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
>
> Look Bruce, don't get me wrong I like fast haulass bikes as much as the
> next guy, but destroy what series? A series that was only used by the
> OEM's to hawk their wares? To me, that isn't a series, it's only
> advertisement by and only for the OEM's in the name of racing. And it
> doesn't matter anyway, these guys are gonna do whatever it is they so
> desire. Neither of us may end up liking it, but unless we've got a
> shitload of money I forgot about there isn't a damn thing either one of
> us can do except see if it's something we can live with *WHEN* it
> finally happens. That said, I really think a lot of what we're hearing
> is just so much posturing, or politics and I take what Ulrich's rag
> offers on all this with a grain of salt given his involvement with Suzuki..
>
true, but if Ulrich rags in AMA or OEMs you're all over it,
> Oh wait, looks like the infighting's already begun. I toldya this was
> prolly gonna get loud, check this out..
> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32013
>>
jeez - way to attack the messenger. Let's see
facts we know
his team had a fine for a problem
suddenly the rules change eliminating that problem
he is on the board
>>
>> I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
>> I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
>
> What, you think they build those things for fun? So, how far do you
> think they'll run? As I said month's ago, they'll prolly pitch a fit,
> piss and moan, but in the end they're aware they need racing more than
> racing needs them. They may go for a while, just not long and on that
> I'd bet real money..
and yet factory involvement in WSB was nil for years (other than Duc of course)
and as far a who needs who more, I don't believe it for a second.
Harley doesn't race - sells plenty, the Japs sell way more cruisers
than sport bikes. even tons of the sportbike buyers don't follow or
care about racing - more just posing or stunting.
>>
>>> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
>>> well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
>>> occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
>>> bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget,
>>> these guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's,
>>> they also wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention
>>> been extremely successful in their past endeavors..
>>>
>>
>> Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
>> it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
>
> Again, relax, just understand improvement never comes without change and
> don't forget this all happened because of the OEM's dominance of AMA,
> not because they cared, or really gave a shit about the "racing."
> They're in racing to sell their stuff and little else and that's not
> flogging, it's reality..
>
again - this wait & see attitude from you is amusing.
Bruce
T3 wrote:
> On 2008-04-11 15:41:49 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>
>> if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
>
> Look Bruce, don't get me wrong I like fast haulass bikes as much as the
> next guy, but destroy what series? A series that was only used by the
> OEM's to hawk their wares? To me, that isn't a series, it's only
> advertisement by and only for the OEM's in the name of racing. And it
> doesn't matter anyway, these guys are gonna do whatever it is they so
> desire. Neither of us may end up liking it, but unless we've got a
> shitload of money I forgot about there isn't a damn thing either one of
> us can do except see if it's something we can live with *WHEN* it
> finally happens. That said, I really think a lot of what we're hearing
> is just so much posturing, or politics and I take what Ulrich's rag
> offers on all this with a grain of salt given his involvement with Suzuki..
>
true, but if Ulrich rags in AMA or OEMs you're all over it,
> Oh wait, looks like the infighting's already begun. I toldya this was
> prolly gonna get loud, check this out..
> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32013
>>
jeez - way to attack the messenger. Let's see
facts we know
his team had a fine for a problem
suddenly the rules change eliminating that problem
he is on the board
>>
>> I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
>> I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
>
> What, you think they build those things for fun? So, how far do you
> think they'll run? As I said month's ago, they'll prolly pitch a fit,
> piss and moan, but in the end they're aware they need racing more than
> racing needs them. They may go for a while, just not long and on that
> I'd bet real money..
and yet factory involvement in WSB was nil for years (other than Duc of course)
and as far a who needs who more, I don't believe it for a second.
Harley doesn't race - sells plenty, the Japs sell way more cruisers
than sport bikes. even tons of the sportbike buyers don't follow or
care about racing - more just posing or stunting.
>>
>>> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
>>> well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
>>> occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
>>> bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget,
>>> these guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's,
>>> they also wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention
>>> been extremely successful in their past endeavors..
>>>
>>
>> Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
>> it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
>
> Again, relax, just understand improvement never comes without change and
> don't forget this all happened because of the OEM's dominance of AMA,
> not because they cared, or really gave a shit about the "racing."
> They're in racing to sell their stuff and little else and that's not
> flogging, it's reality..
>
again - this wait & see attitude from you is amusing.
Bruce
Re: Ulrich got a bye?
On 2008-04-11 19:24:41 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
> T3 wrote:
>> On 2008-04-11 15:41:49 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>>
>>> if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
>>
>> Look Bruce, don't get me wrong I like fast haulass bikes as much as the
>> next guy, but destroy what series? A series that was only used by the
>> OEM's to hawk their wares? To me, that isn't a series, it's only
>> advertisement by and only for the OEM's in the name of racing. And it
>> doesn't matter anyway, these guys are gonna do whatever it is they so
>> desire. Neither of us may end up liking it, but unless we've got a
>> shitload of money I forgot about there isn't a damn thing either one of
>> us can do except see if it's something we can live with *WHEN* it
>> finally happens. That said, I really think a lot of what we're hearing
>> is just so much posturing, or politics and I take what Ulrich's rag
>> offers on all this with a grain of salt given his involvement with
>> Suzuki..
>>
>
> true, but if Ulrich rags in AMA or OEMs you're all over it,
> Sometimes when I think they have a valid point, yes I have and
> sometimes, such as this, I think it might be a "little" self-serving.
> The somewhat sad fact of the matter is damn near all so-called
> motor-journalist are beholding to someone other than their readership,
> that's why I asked the original question at the start of this thread,
> "Abram's article in this weeks CN, more muck raking, or did Ulrich use
> his stature as a board member to get away with something?"
>
>> Oh wait, looks like the infighting's already begun. I toldya this was
>> prolly gonna get loud, check this out..
>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32013
>>>
>
> jeez - way to attack the messenger. Let's see
> facts we know
> his team had a fine for a problem
> suddenly the rules change eliminating that problem
> he is on the board
I'm not prepared to go that far knowing how many past side deals
Proracing made and I'm told that particular deal was one of them. What
I feel that hurt Ulrich's case, or veracity was learning about it a
month later in CN..
>
>
>>>
>>> I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
>>> I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
>>
>> What, you think they build those things for fun? So, how far do you
>> think they'll run? As I said month's ago, they'll prolly pitch a fit,
>> piss and moan, but in the end they're aware they need racing more than
>> racing needs them. They may go for a while, just not long and on that
>> I'd bet real money..
>
> and yet factory involvement in WSB was nil for years (other than Duc of course)
>
> and as far a who needs who more, I don't believe it for a second.
> Harley doesn't race - sells plenty, the Japs sell way more cruisers
> than sport bikes. even tons of the sportbike buyers don't follow or
> care about racing - more just posing or stunting.
I'm told from Nip dealers I know that SB (litre's and up) profit
margins are among the highest and we know how much they like money and
them leaving WSB had as much, or more to do with MGP's monetary drain
than anything else. Sure, they didn't like losing control, or being
told how it would be, but money was surely at root of it too..
>
>>>
>>>> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
>>>> well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
>>>> occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
>>>> bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these
>>>> guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also
>>>> wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely
>>>> successful in their past endeavors..
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
>>> it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
>>
>> Again, relax, just understand improvement never comes without change
>> and don't forget this all happened because of the OEM's dominance of
>> AMA, not because they cared, or really gave a shit about the "racing."
>> They're in racing to sell their stuff and little else and that's not
>> flogging, it's reality..
>>
>
> again - this wait & see attitude from you is amusing.
>
> Bruce
Why? When Proracing was changing Captain's and direction more often
than I got haircuts I gave them chances (waaay too many) and DMG's plan
hasn't even been presented, at least publicly, so what's the point in
trying to shoot down something that hasn't even taxied, much less tried
to fly? The only thing anybody outside of DMG is really sure of is that
things are going to change. Change, by the way, that had to be made in
order to, not only survive, but improve. Now, we may not like what they
feel is improvement, but unless you know Bill Gates, or someone in that
rarified aire it's pretty much tuff darts, doncha' think?
On 2008-04-11 19:24:41 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
> T3 wrote:
>> On 2008-04-11 15:41:49 -0400, Bruce Hartweg <bruce-news@hartweg.us> said:
>>
>>> if by "reel them in" you mean piss them off & destroy the series.
>>
>> Look Bruce, don't get me wrong I like fast haulass bikes as much as the
>> next guy, but destroy what series? A series that was only used by the
>> OEM's to hawk their wares? To me, that isn't a series, it's only
>> advertisement by and only for the OEM's in the name of racing. And it
>> doesn't matter anyway, these guys are gonna do whatever it is they so
>> desire. Neither of us may end up liking it, but unless we've got a
>> shitload of money I forgot about there isn't a damn thing either one of
>> us can do except see if it's something we can live with *WHEN* it
>> finally happens. That said, I really think a lot of what we're hearing
>> is just so much posturing, or politics and I take what Ulrich's rag
>> offers on all this with a grain of salt given his involvement with
>> Suzuki..
>>
>
> true, but if Ulrich rags in AMA or OEMs you're all over it,
> Sometimes when I think they have a valid point, yes I have and
> sometimes, such as this, I think it might be a "little" self-serving.
> The somewhat sad fact of the matter is damn near all so-called
> motor-journalist are beholding to someone other than their readership,
> that's why I asked the original question at the start of this thread,
> "Abram's article in this weeks CN, more muck raking, or did Ulrich use
> his stature as a board member to get away with something?"
>
>> Oh wait, looks like the infighting's already begun. I toldya this was
>> prolly gonna get loud, check this out..
>> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32013
>>>
>
> jeez - way to attack the messenger. Let's see
> facts we know
> his team had a fine for a problem
> suddenly the rules change eliminating that problem
> he is on the board
I'm not prepared to go that far knowing how many past side deals
Proracing made and I'm told that particular deal was one of them. What
I feel that hurt Ulrich's case, or veracity was learning about it a
month later in CN..
>
>
>>>
>>> I know you get off on flogging the OEMs, but ya' know they make the bikes
>>> I like, so driving them away doens't seem like a great idea.
>>
>> What, you think they build those things for fun? So, how far do you
>> think they'll run? As I said month's ago, they'll prolly pitch a fit,
>> piss and moan, but in the end they're aware they need racing more than
>> racing needs them. They may go for a while, just not long and on that
>> I'd bet real money..
>
> and yet factory involvement in WSB was nil for years (other than Duc of course)
>
> and as far a who needs who more, I don't believe it for a second.
> Harley doesn't race - sells plenty, the Japs sell way more cruisers
> than sport bikes. even tons of the sportbike buyers don't follow or
> care about racing - more just posing or stunting.
I'm told from Nip dealers I know that SB (litre's and up) profit
margins are among the highest and we know how much they like money and
them leaving WSB had as much, or more to do with MGP's monetary drain
than anything else. Sure, they didn't like losing control, or being
told how it would be, but money was surely at root of it too..
>
>>>
>>>> It's hard to say (exactly;-) where all this will end up, but we, as
>>>> well as the OEM's are beginning to understand a paradigm shift has
>>>> occurred and it's going to be a very interesting, if not a little
>>>> bumpy, ride. Just try to keep an open mind and don't ever forget, these
>>>> guys not only have decades of experience dealing with OEM's, they also
>>>> wrote the book on the politics of racing, not to mention been extremely
>>>> successful in their past endeavors..
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your advocating of keeping an open mind is intriguing, and unfortunately,
>>> it looks like the same "success" I was worried about.
>>
>> Again, relax, just understand improvement never comes without change
>> and don't forget this all happened because of the OEM's dominance of
>> AMA, not because they cared, or really gave a shit about the "racing."
>> They're in racing to sell their stuff and little else and that's not
>> flogging, it's reality..
>>
>
> again - this wait & see attitude from you is amusing.
>
> Bruce
Why? When Proracing was changing Captain's and direction more often
than I got haircuts I gave them chances (waaay too many) and DMG's plan
hasn't even been presented, at least publicly, so what's the point in
trying to shoot down something that hasn't even taxied, much less tried
to fly? The only thing anybody outside of DMG is really sure of is that
things are going to change. Change, by the way, that had to be made in
order to, not only survive, but improve. Now, we may not like what they
feel is improvement, but unless you know Bill Gates, or someone in that
rarified aire it's pretty much tuff darts, doncha' think?
