'Bamaham

'Bamaham

It's around 70, overcast and even though I don't see it, they said it
might rain.

SB, it's Deja Vu all over again, Ben and Mat are a time Zone ahead and
Rog just got hauled away to the hospital after a nasty crash. (with one
of the Emgo guys,I think)
Other than that, it looks like the all too familiar race for 3rd in
this class, but Tommy H is the one I'm looking at right now for that
cherished spot. A Zuki sweep? It could happen..

FX, I'm hoping this ends up closer than it looks and it looks like the
Honda's of Jake and Josh. As much as I'd like to see the "lad" (Davies)
back up his 200 win, I'm not bettin' on it..

SStock, Team MJ, or a Gxxr is prolly a very safe bet, but watch out for
Holden's (lone) Honda..

SSport, I'd like to see BBoz do something, but this is considered one
of Josh's home tracks so watch for him, Herrin's on too and don't
forget the Rappster, there's a boatload of talent in this class and it
should be real good..


On the new DMG deal, after talking to just about everyone I saw/know
the breakdown is 1. they hate any and all things DMG will do. (mostly
Zuki' and die-hard litre guys) 2. The wait and see folks. (by far the
largest % and runs the gamut from press guys, to wrenches, to fans) 3.
DMG can do no wrong people. (oddly enough, this includes most of the
rider's, but quite a few fans too)

SSport Q is on deck, SBR1 and then FX, gotta go...

Re: 'Bamaham

T3 wrote:

> On the new DMG deal, after talking to just about everyone I saw/know the
> breakdown is 1. they hate any and all things DMG will do. (mostly Zuki'
> and die-hard litre guys) 2. The wait and see folks. (by far the largest
> % and runs the gamut from press guys, to wrenches, to fans) 3. DMG can
> do no wrong people. (oddly enough, this includes most of the rider's,
> but quite a few fans too)
>
> SSport Q is on deck, SBR1 and then FX, gotta go...

Sounds like a great time T.

No doubt there will be folks in Group 1, and I would think the majority
would be in Group 2 (change is change, so you always wait and see). I'm
curious about Group 3. When you say "most of the riders", does that
include factory guys or "the rest"? I'm really curious about the close
factory guys what they think (Erion, Attack, etc.) Also, how many of the
riders you talked to were SB only vs FX/SSport only or as well?

Just curious if it breaks down along the "obvious" lines or if these
feelings (one way or the other) are scattered "across the board".

Regards,

Will Hartung

Re: 'Bamaham (spoiler)

On 2008-04-19 21:45:07 -0400, Will Hartung <redrocks@sbcglobal . net > said:

> No doubt there will be folks in Group 1, and I would think the majority
> would be in Group 2 (change is change, so you always wait and see). I'm
> curious about Group 3. When you say "most of the riders", does that
> include factory guys or "the rest"? I'm really curious about the close
> factory guys what they think (Erion, Attack, etc.) Also, how many of
> the riders you talked to were SB only vs FX/SSport only or as well?

As I'm sure you know it's considered very uncool to get in the way when
they're working and on the morning of the Q's it's only by chance you'd
get the opportunity anyway. We got here very early yesterday and
instead of going to the hotel as I should have, I got talked into
coming straight to the track, as the people we're with that had some
sprockets to deliver. Suffice to say, after driving all night it turned
into a long f'ing day for a guy in the process of breaking in a new
leg, but we were able to shoot the shit with a few guys early on. Later
this evening depending on if, or when we decide to boogie will be the
best/only time for the OEM guys, but you polly gotta take what they say
with a grain of salt anyway, as I imagine most of those guys opinion's
right now will either come from the Team, factory, or whoever signs
their check. We did see some SS/FX/600 guys briefly yesterday morning
and IIRC; 1 was big-time against it, 5 were sorta' for and 2 were
either busier than they looked, didn't give a shit, or both.. (2 were
semi-factory, 1 each in FX and SS, both for) As far as fan's go, not
that many had even heard and given the news hasn't been out but a
couple days it's understandable, though knowing how strong anything
Nascar, or France is around these parts, well, you get my drift..

>
> Just curious if it breaks down along the "obvious" lines or if these
> feelings (one way or the other) are scattered "across the board".

I get the feeling (so far) that most of the non-factory guys kinda' dig
the proposed changes, especially the rider/team centric part and why
wouldn't they? Just don't forget the factory guys are already making
pretty good bucks and I'm fairly sure if I was one them I'd prolly
wouldn't be real happy talking about whole bunch of changes. So there
may well end up being some kind of a division along the have/have nots
line, though at this stage of the game that remains to be seen.
Heh, when you think about it the top riders have a hell of a lot at
stake and not knowing how DMG will react to what they may say might
have a somewhat chilling effect on saying anything and outside of those
crazyass Bostrom's I doubt (m)any will have much to say publicly, at
least until the rule book is published, though I'd bet all the Yosh
guys don't like it already, but on the other hand, I've heard Jordan
really does..

Saturday-
SB, Ben crashed and so did I, ZZZZZZZZZZ...
FX, Josh crashes, Jake cruises and a lot better race than SB IMO. The
Lad got buried at the start, but was very fast and for a while it
looked like he might even catch Cardenas, though it was not to be..

Today;
SSport, another dogfight in the making, though BBoz looks pretty
strong, but the grid times are MGP lookin' and that says crap shoot to
me. Tell you what, if DMG can combine the competitive ferocity and
depth of SSport with a FX type package, well, you tell me what's not to
like?
SStock, gonna be pullin' for Holden's lonely Honda, for no other reason
than to see the Gixxr freight train derailed..
SB, same old, same old and what little drama there is, is for 3rd, be
it Tommy, Jason, Jamie, or whoever else is only a half a lap back, this
has all the makings of a nap...


If we end-up staying I'll try to get something half-way scientific, or
at least, actually write it down, but I'm moving a little slow today,
so, we'll see. Oh that's right, I forgot,, I can nap during the SB
race...

Re: 'Bamaham

Will Hartung wrote:
> T3 wrote:
>
>> On the new DMG deal, after talking to just about everyone I saw/know
>> the breakdown is 1. they hate any and all things DMG will do. (mostly
>> Zuki' and die-hard litre guys) 2. The wait and see folks. (by far the
>> largest % and runs the gamut from press guys, to wrenches, to fans) 3.
>> DMG can do no wrong people. (oddly enough, this includes most of the
>> rider's, but quite a few fans too)
>>
>> SSport Q is on deck, SBR1 and then FX, gotta go...
>
> Sounds like a great time T.
>
> No doubt there will be folks in Group 1, and I would think the majority
> would be in Group 2 (change is change, so you always wait and see). I'm
> curious about Group 3. When you say "most of the riders", does that
> include factory guys or "the rest"? I'm really curious about the close
> factory guys what they think (Erion, Attack, etc.) Also, how many of the
> riders you talked to were SB only vs FX/SSport only or as well?
>
> Just curious if it breaks down along the "obvious" lines or if these
> feelings (one way or the other) are scattered "across the board".

I would suggest that you wait until next weekend to do your polling at
Fontana, it's not like you're going to get a reliable answer from the
Daytona Cheerleader, who's not only an established liar but also has a
massive stake (in group terms) in DMG being smarter and more successful
than the AMA was. Not that the AMA was really trying to grow the series,
to get rich on it, they were mostly just a sanctioning body.

What I thought was funny was Spencer's comments on this in the intro to
SB race one on Speed. He said they were going to run fewer classes,
"which is a good thing", but that the rules changes weren't going to be
that great, and then went on to extol the virtues of NASCAR and called
it "a win-win for everyone". Clearly Speed has told their people what
the company line will be on this.

I thought DiSalvo's comments at Soup were pretty interesting:

"I think that as the proposed rules changes have been - I don't think
that that's set in stone at this point. Because let's face it, the
factories just aren't going to go for it. The reality of professional
motorcycle racing in America is that it's driven by the factories, and I
think DMG sort of wants to change that, but they're going to struggle to
do so. It's going to have to take something - it almost sounds funny. If
they want to make that distinction, that the factories are no longer the
rulers of the roost, they're going to have to do something even more
drastic than they're already doing... It's going to be interesting. But
as far as the current proposal, it won't stick, in my opinion. There's
got to be changes. Because it's too extreme for the factories to go,
"Okay, we'll do this," and not extreme enough for the factories to go,
"Screw you guys, we're going someplace else." And that's what, if DMG
really wants to take the factories out of the top spot, they're going to
have to take them out of racing. And I don't think that's going to be
good for racing, myself."

And E-Boz:

"I'm in favor of the World Superbike structure. I think it's the best
racing series in the world. I love that they have a production class for
under-24 year olds to cut their teeth, and a World Supersport class, and
World Superbike class. It's a nice spectrum for everyone to shine. But
the fact of the matter is, they're able to secure sponsorship that it
doesn't seem people are able to get here in America. And that's why the
series can thrive, even without the manufacturers. So I don't know. I'm
pretty neutral. Obviously, as a rider, you like riding the biggest,
baddest thing out there. That's why every rider is not going to want to
see the Superbikes go away, because they're more fun to ride."


I suspect that's the kind of things most of the factory guys would say,
once they get beyond the fear of being out of work. I can't see how the
low-level privateers would be too wild about this, given that both SS
classes will be gone, unless they are enamored with fantasies about how
DMG will fill their pockets with cash. But if there is a place for them
in the future, they will be getting their asses kicked just as badly if
not more. It's the top independent teams, the ones with some sponsorship
money, who are probably the most enthused, teams like Jordan, M4-EMGO,
Corona, and maybe even the ones attached to the factories by the hip -
Erion, Graves, Attack. And then there are guys like Vance, Muzzy and
Ferracci waiting in the wings...

The journalists will be amusing to watch, as they mostly have their past
virulent anti-AMA positions to live up to, and are probably already
living in fear of losing their press credential. So it will be
interesting to see how sanitized their opinions end up being.

Re: 'Bamaham

On 2008-04-21 02:23:20 -0400, Mark N <menusbaum@NYETSPAMearthlink . net > said:
begin 7:51pm est..
> Will Hartung wrote:
>> T3 wrote:
>>
>>> On the new DMG deal, after talking to just about everyone I saw/know
>>> the breakdown is 1. they hate any and all things DMG will do. (mostly
>>> Zuki' and die-hard litre guys) 2. The wait and see folks. (by far the
>>> largest % and runs the gamut from press guys, to wrenches, to fans) 3.
>>> DMG can do no wrong people. (oddly enough, this includes most of the
>>> rider's, but quite a few fans too)
>>>
>>> SSport Q is on deck, SBR1 and then FX, gotta go...
>>
>> Sounds like a great time T.
>>
>> No doubt there will be folks in Group 1, and I would think the majority
>> would be in Group 2 (change is change, so you always wait and see). I'm
>> curious about Group 3. When you say "most of the riders", does that
>> include factory guys or "the rest"? I'm really curious about the close
>> factory guys what they think (Erion, Attack, etc.) Also, how many of
>> the riders you talked to were SB only vs FX/SSport only or as well?
>>
>> Just curious if it breaks down along the "obvious" lines or if these
>> feelings (one way or the other) are scattered "across the board".
>
> I would suggest that you wait until next weekend to do your polling at
> Fontana, it's not like you're going to get a reliable answer from the
> Daytona Cheerleader, who's not only an established liar but also has a
> massive stake (in group terms) in DMG being smarter and more successful
> than the AMA was. Not that the AMA was really trying to grow the
> series, to get rich on it, they were mostly just a sanctioning body.

The only thing you've *established* is your juvenile tendency to to
distort any view not currently held by yourself and now it's obvious
rewriting history isn't a prob either. The plain and somewhat sad news
is that you don't know shit from shinola about US M/C racing beyond
what someone writes and even then if you don't agree you'll attempt to
shoot them down, though oddly enough, in a week or two, if it suits
your agenda, you're more than happy to quote them chapter and verse.
For today's example you claim Proracing wasn't meant to make money. Oh
really? I guess that's why a NOT FOR PROFIT organization spun them off
as a wholly owned corp. Why? Just so they could break even? Maybe not!
Now you cite a guy you've called a no talent gansta' wannabe a few
times as some kind of nuevo prophet while conveniently overlooking the
fact that he gets fucking paid by the guys he's defending and this is
just today! I don't know if you think everybody here is dumb or not,
but quit pissin' in my boots and tellin' me it's rainin'..

>
> What I thought was funny was Spencer's comments on this in the intro to
> SB race one on Speed. He said they were going to run fewer classes,
> "which is a good thing", but that the rules changes weren't going to be
> that great, and then went on to extol the virtues of NASCAR and called
> it "a win-win for everyone". Clearly Speed has told their people what
> the company line will be on this.

Clearly??? Explain how the fuck you know what, or for that matter, if
Speed tells their commentators anything? Pluhleeze elaborate..

>
> I thought DiSalvo's comments at Soup were pretty interesting:

Self serving drivel snipped..

>
>
>
> And E-Boz:
>
> "I'm in favor of the World Superbike structure. I think it's the best
> racing series in the world. I love that they have a production class
> for under-24 year olds to cut their teeth, and a World Supersport
> class, and World Superbike class. It's a nice spectrum for everyone to
> shine. But the fact of the matter is, they're able to secure
> sponsorship that it doesn't seem people are able to get here in
> America. And that's why the series can thrive, even without the
> manufacturers. So I don't know. I'm pretty neutral. Obviously, as a
> rider, you like riding the biggest, baddest thing out there. That's why
> every rider is not going to want to see the Superbikes go away, because
> they're more fun to ride."

As I said yesterday, prolly only those crazyass Bostrom's will say
anything that's half-way meaningful and if I half-way understand that
*clearly*, he, as most reasonable folks, is taking a wait and see
attitude..

>
>
> I suspect that's the kind of things most of the factory guys would say,
> once they get beyond the fear of being out of work. I can't see how the
> low-level privateers would be too wild about this, given that both SS
> classes will be gone, unless they are enamored with fantasies about how
> DMG will fill their pockets with cash. But if there is a place for them
> in the future, they will be getting their asses kicked just as badly if
> not more. It's the top independent teams, the ones with some
> sponsorship money, who are probably the most enthused, teams like
> Jordan, M4-EMGO, Corona, and maybe even the ones attached to the
> factories by the hip - Erion, Graves, Attack. And then there are guys
> like Vance, Muzzy and Ferracci waiting in the wings...

Well duh, IIRC they're pretty much the folks DMG wants to attract, I
guess you got a problem with that too..

>
> The journalists will be amusing to watch, as they mostly have their
> past virulent anti-AMA positions to live up to, and are probably
> already living in fear of losing their press credential. So it will be
> interesting to see how sanitized their opinions end up being.

OMG, when you run out of crap to spew you manufacture a conspiracy
theory, instead of just maybe accepting that most of the "journalist"
were right all along. I gotta' news flash for you sport, Proracing did
suck ass and as I tried to tell you, they were a top heavy inept bunch
and now we know for pretty sure they were ran by thieves too. Oh wait,
the AMA already said all that..
You seem to think anyone that views anything different than you is
somehow your enemy and while that's very revealing of a personalty
disorder, it doesn't do much to endear your views to others and it not
only makes you look childish, but marginalizes you even further. I have
no stake in anything in this group beyond the friendship I've been able
to make with some here, but trust me on this, I really don't give a
flyin' fuck what you believe, or don't. Maybe if you actually knew
something, had ever raced, built an engine, or even acted like an adult
it would be different, but I ain't holdin' my breath waitin' for that
to happen anymore.
In just a week you've called DMG rednecks, then racists, I guess you're
saving pedophiles for next week and following that, prolly fags of some
sort, but you know what? I, for one, find all your bullshit funny as
hell, because If anyone I've ever read in this NG has a ethnicity, or a
lifestyle issue, it's YOU! (for instance, remember Sp*c? I sure do, bet
a few others do too)

While I'm at it here's another blast from the past, didn't you once
say, one day *soon* people would look at DIS and remark how it was
crazy to ever have ever raced there? Heh, heh, doesn't look like too
*soon* now, does it? Bottom line, you don't know squat and evidently
wouldn't even know it as it runs over your arrogant ass, sorta' like
now. But ya' know what? Keep diggin' that hole as deep as you wish,
just don't forget somebody might get tired of your childish brand of
bullshit and toss your sissy, hide behind the keyboard ass in it and
you never know, perhaps *soon* too..

8:19pm est
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


On

a more on topic note, Bamaham ran about as smooth as it gets, great
weather and a good crowd too. I got to talking with some friends and
wasn't able to pay much attention to the Red Bull thing, but the smell
and sound of the ring-dings did bring back a few momories.

SSport alone was worth the weekend and that last corner move by Herrin
was very heads up and a little dirt trackish too, really good stuff!

SStock had a little drama too, but once 2ARon got out front it was
pretty much fork time for Holden and his lonely Honda.

SB? More suck as far as I was concerned and when Tommy made his move
around Disalvo, me and about 10,000 other folks made our move to the
parking lot and I-65. Barber is one hell of a nice facility and
finished extremely well, but it's still in Alafuckinbama and while
Florida these days isn't really anything to brag about, I kinda' dug
seeing it's welcome to sign..

It looks like Roger Lee got hurt more than what was said at the track,
best wishes for a complete and intact recovery Rog..
* superbikeplanet . com /2008/Apr/080421c.htm

Today's yuk; How does a biker from Georgia know how to get to Alabama?
That's easy, he just rides west until he feels like screwin' his
sister. Ba doom boom! Hmm, that prolly works for Florida guys going
north to Georgia too... ;-)

end 8:40pm est

Re: 'Bamaham

T3 wrote:

umm... snip :-)

> SSport alone was worth the weekend and that last corner move by Herrin
> was very heads up and a little dirt trackish too, really good stuff!

This line brings up I think the essence of the entire process going on here.

One lament I have with the proposed DMG changes is the lack of variety,
and it seems to me that this is Part Of The Plan.

It seems clear that "LiterBike" is an afterthought, being tossed to the
factories with a kind of "You 1000's? I'll give you 1000's." attitude. A
"be careful what you wish for" faustian bargain.

I learned an interesting tidbit about the LiterBike class: not only must
a factory field 4 riders in the series, but each brand is limited to 6
total entries. Also, there will be no purse in the race. Basically,
they're drawing a little box that the factories can play their factory
games in and call it LiterBike.

But if they didn't have LiterBike, then, as proposed we'd only have ST,
DSB, and the Red Bull Cup. Now, I'm used to heading out on a weekend and
seeing 5 races over two days. If they had there original plan, there
would have been 2 races on Sat (ST and DSB), and 2 on Sunday (DSB and
RBC). And since I don't really have a big interest in watching the
endurance race, nor RBC, I'd need to head out to the track each day, to
catch 1 45 minute each day. That's a lot of day and money to head out
and catch 45 minutes of racing.

But the question is, if each race is turned in to a last dash, last
corner, exciting door slamming win, is that enough to make the trip
worthwhile?

That basically seems to be what DMG wants to deliver. Nail biting,
corner to corner action action action!

So, if they can deliver that, will it still be interesting knowing the
limitations imposed on the teams in order to achieve it? Will it be
worth going to single a single "good" race.

> It looks like Roger Lee got hurt more than what was said at the track,
> best wishes for a complete and intact recovery Rog..
> * superbikeplanet . com /2008/Apr/080421c.htm

Yea, all my hopes to Rog. He's had a hard couple of years. Obviously the
injury magnet of the Hayden clan.

Regards,

Will Hartung

Re: 'Bamaham

On 2008-04-21 23:56:14 -0400, Will Hartung <redrocks@sbcglobal . net > said:

> T3 wrote:
>
> umm... snip :-)

Chicken.. %-)

>
>> SSport alone was worth the weekend and that last corner move by Herrin
>> was very heads up and a little dirt trackish too, really good stuff!
>
> This line brings up I think the essence of the entire process going on here.

I think so too and if they somehow can merge 600 and FX with all the
riders available it ought to be very good indeed..

>
> One lament I have with the proposed DMG changes is the lack of variety,
> and it seems to me that this is Part Of The Plan.

Ayup, they'll be little confusion about what's the premiere class..

>
> It seems clear that "LiterBike" is an afterthought, being tossed to the
> factories with a kind of "You 1000's? I'll give you 1000's." attitude.
> A "be careful what you wish for" faustian bargain.
>
> I learned an interesting tidbit about the LiterBike class: not only
> must a factory field 4 riders in the series, but each brand is limited
> to 6 total entries. Also, there will be no purse in the race.
> Basically, they're drawing a little box that the factories can play
> their factory games in and call it LiterBike.

Which may placate the OEM's for a while, but somehow I see DMG
marginalizing SB over time in leu of their DSB thing, don't you?

>
> But if they didn't have LiterBike, then, as proposed we'd only have ST,
> DSB, and the Red Bull Cup. Now, I'm used to heading out on a weekend
> and seeing 5 races over two days. If they had there original plan,
> there would have been 2 races on Sat (ST and DSB), and 2 on Sunday (DSB
> and RBC). And since I don't really have a big interest in watching the
> endurance race, nor RBC, I'd need to head out to the track each day, to
> catch 1 45 minute each day. That's a lot of day and money to head out
> and catch 45 minutes of racing.

I think they're really planning a weekend sort of like Nascar and the
Bush series. The ST guys and some youth thing like Red bull on
Saturday, then Sunday a longer (150 miles?) DSB race, complete with
pits stops and all the stuff that goes with that. Will it work?
Damfino, but a hell of a lot of folks in this country already relate to
racing in that light, so maybe they're onto something..

>
> But the question is, if each race is turned in to a last dash, last
> corner, exciting door slamming win, is that enough to make the trip
> worthwhile?

I dunno Will, I do know I'll probably go when I can afford to, if for
no other reason than to bitch about how "good" things use to
be.(sarcasm on;-) Now, whether I continue going is another question..

>
> That basically seems to be what DMG wants to deliver. Nail biting,
> corner to corner action action action!

What's not to like? I remember a long time ago something OB said to me
after one of those classic Springfield finishes, "if someone could
figure a way to duplicate this close racing on the road they'd make a
fortune", it would appear DMG thinks so too..

>
> So, if they can deliver that, will it still be interesting knowing the
> limitations imposed on the teams in order to achieve it? Will it be
> worth going to single a single "good" race.

Yeah, the weekend getaways for me will probably come to a screeching
halt, but given how damn much prices have jumped of late that was more
than likely going to happen anyway. I usually make 4, or 5 weekend
races a year, but unless they start running Homestead again next year
that's gonna shrink down to 3 at most and more likely just here and RA.
Suffice to say, until something pretty positive on the financial front
happens I've prolly seen my last Road America, Mid-Ohio, Barber and
quite possibly VIR too, because even wrangling freebee's doesn't make
up for the expense just getting there and back. Gas prices suk and
Hotel rooms aren't that far behind!
Bottom line on all this is probably how much these guys want it to work
and how fast they can make it grow, as it stand now, your guess is as
good as any, but if Edmundson's history in Grand Am says anything, it
probably will work out, though I still think our dismal economy could
easily throw them some curves along the way..

>
>> It looks like Roger Lee got hurt more than what was said at the track,
>> best wishes for a complete and intact recovery Rog..
>> * superbikeplanet . com /2008/Apr/080421c.htm
>
> Yea, all my hopes to Rog. He's had a hard couple of years. Obviously
> the injury magnet of the Hayden clan.

Even though he really had no part in causing that crash he still seems
snake-bit in SB...

Re: 'Bamaham

Does anyone know what happened to Roger Hayden? Sounds pretty badly
hurt with a broken pelvis (three places), broken lumbar vertebrae
(three places) and a lot of a finger missing. He made it sound like
it was the backmarker's fault (can you be a backmarker in practice?) .

-Dirt-

Re: 'Bamaham

On 2008-04-22 03:46:52 -0400, Dirt <christopher.l.cavin@gmail . com > said:

> Does anyone know what happened to Roger Hayden? Sounds pretty badly
> hurt with a broken pelvis (three places), broken lumbar vertebrae
> (three places) and a lot of a finger missing. He made it sound like
> it was the backmarker's fault (can you be a backmarker in practice?) .
>
> -Dirt-

I didn't see it, but in the SBQ Peitri was said to have rear-ended him,
evidently pretty hard too..

Re: 'Bamaham

On Apr 22, 1:54 am, T3 <no...@nowhere . net > wrote:
> On 2008-04-21 23:56:14 -0400, Will Hartung <redro...@sbcglobal . net > said:
>
> > T3 wrote:
>
> > umm... snip :-)
>
> Chicken.. %-)
>
>
>
> >> SSport alone was worth the weekend and that last corner move by Herrin
> >> was very heads up and a little dirt trackish too, really good stuff!
>
> > This line brings up I think the essence of the entire process going on h=
ere.
>
> I think so too and if they somehow can merge 600 and FX with all the
> riders available it ought to be very good indeed..
>
>
>
> > One lament I have with the proposed DMG changes is the lack of variety,
> > and it seems to me that this is Part Of The Plan.
>
> Ayup, they'll be little confusion about what's the premiere class..
>
>
>
> > It seems clear that "LiterBike" is an afterthought, being tossed to the
> > factories with a kind of "You 1000's? I'll give you 1000's." attitude.
> > A "be careful what you wish for" faustian bargain.
>
> > I learned an interesting tidbit about the LiterBike class: not only
> > must a factory field 4 riders in the series, but each brand is limited
> > to 6 total entries. Also, there will be no purse in the race.
> > Basically, they're drawing a little box that the factories can play
> > their factory games in and call it LiterBike.
>
> Which may placate the OEM's for a while, but somehow I see DMG
> marginalizing SB over time in leu of their DSB thing, don't you?
>
>
>
> > But if they didn't have LiterBike, then, as proposed we'd only have ST,
> > DSB, and the Red Bull Cup. Now, I'm used to heading out on a weekend
> > and seeing 5 races over two days. If they had there original plan,
> > there would have been 2 races on Sat (ST and DSB), and 2 on Sunday (DSB
> > and RBC). And since I don't really have a big interest in watching the
> > endurance race, nor RBC, I'd need to head out to the track each day, to
> > catch 1 45 minute each day. That's a lot of day and money to head out
> > and catch 45 minutes of racing.
>
> I think they're really planning a weekend sort of like Nascar and the
> Bush series. The ST guys and some youth thing like Red bull on
> Saturday, then Sunday a longer (150 miles?) DSB race, complete with
> pits stops and all the stuff that goes with that. Will it work?
> Damfino, but a hell of a lot of folks in this country already relate to
> racing in that light, so maybe they're onto something..
>
>
>
> > But the question is, if each race is turned in to a last dash, last
> > corner, exciting door slamming win, is that enough to make the trip
> > worthwhile?
>
> I dunno Will, I do know I'll probably go when I can afford to, if for
> no other reason than to bitch about how "good" things use to
> be.(sarcasm on;-) Now, whether I continue going is another question..
>
>
>
> > That basically seems to be what DMG wants to deliver. Nail biting,
> > corner to corner action action action!
>
> What's not to like?

If they set that situation up by finding some excuse to bring out the
pace car to bunch the field back up it ceases to be racing in my
book. The leader may have trashed his tire building up a 20 second
lead over 2nd place, only to have it taken away. Then he gets to
choose between pitting for a tire and loosing position, or having a
bad tire leave him easy prey for the last lap dash. The whole thing
becomes one big crap shoot. Yeah, you never know who's going to win
till it's over.

> I remember a long time ago something OB said to me
> after one of those classic Springfield finishes, "if someone could
> figure a way to duplicate this close racing on the road they'd make a
> fortune", it would appear DMG thinks so too..
>
>
>
> > So, if they can deliver that, will it still be interesting knowing the
> > limitations imposed on the teams in order to achieve it? Will it be
> > worth going to single a single "good" race.

Is that all it takes to make a "good" race, a last lap dash?

> Yeah, the weekend getaways for me will probably come to a screeching
> halt, but given how damn much prices have jumped of late that was more
> than likely going to happen anyway. I usually  make 4, or 5 weekend
> races a year, but unless they start running Homestead again next year
> that's gonna shrink down to 3 at most and more likely just here and RA.
> Suffice to say, until something pretty positive on the financial front
> happens I've prolly seen my last Road America, Mid-Ohio, Barber and
> quite possibly VIR too, because even wrangling freebee's doesn't make
> up for the expense just getting there and back. Gas prices suk and
> Hotel rooms aren't that far behind!
> Bottom line on all this is probably how much these guys want it to work
> and how fast they can make it grow, as it stand now, your guess is as
> good as any, but if Edmundson's history in Grand Am says anything, it
> probably will work out, though I still think our dismal economy could
> easily throw them some curves along the way..
>
>
>
> >> It looks like Roger Lee got hurt more than what was said at the track,
> >> best wishes for a complete and intact recovery Rog..
> >> * superbikeplanet . com /2008/Apr/080421c.htm
>
> > Yea, all my hopes to Rog. He's had a hard couple of years. Obviously
> > the injury magnet of the Hayden clan.
>
> Even though he really had no part in causing that crash he still seems
> snake-bit in SB...

Re: 'Bamaham

T3 wrote:

> I think so too and if they somehow can merge 600 and FX with all the
> riders available it ought to be very good indeed..

Whatever riders there are will be in DSB. Even with LiterBike, I don't
think the factories can afford to NOT be in DSB. For good or ill,
"that's where the action is". The factories won't touch ST, so if they
want any presence at all in this series, its going to be in DSB. They'll
milk LB while/if they can, but that series is dead before it even
started IMHO. They should just name it "The Factory Series" and be done
with it.

>> One lament I have with the proposed DMG changes is the lack of
>> variety, and it seems to me that this is Part Of The Plan.
>
> Ayup, they'll be little confusion about what's the premiere class..

> Which may placate the OEM's for a while, but somehow I see DMG
> marginalizing SB over time in leu of their DSB thing, don't you?

Premiere class is DSB. LB is the olive branch to the factories.

Simply put, DMG doesn't want the bikes to go any faster than they are
now, which is a staple of the current scheme. Build a better bike each
season to go faster than the other guy next season. That won't happen in
DSB (or LB for that matter with the HP and weight limits).

We're stuck in time. The real question, is what's the difference between
a 120HP ST Twin, and a 130HP DSB twin, beyond 10 HP. Anything? anything
at all??

> I dunno Will, I do know I'll probably go when I can afford to, if for no
> other reason than to bitch about how "good" things use to be.(sarcasm
> on;-) Now, whether I continue going is another question..

Well I'm certainly going to watch at least Daytona and Barber next year,
and MAYBE (depending on what I see) go to Fontucky (being as its close).

But the format, I just don't know. We may not even get ST out here next
year...

And..AND the new format features "Fan Walk". Which smells of a closed
paddock to me. Great. Super. Yea, lots of value there.

> What's not to like? I remember a long time ago something OB said to me
> after one of those classic Springfield finishes, "if someone could
> figure a way to duplicate this close racing on the road they'd make a
> fortune", it would appear DMG thinks so too..

That's an interesting point. I don't follow Flat Track, I just know
they've been running the same XR750 Honda and Harleys since the turn of
the century -- as in the 20th century, Nineteen Ought Ought.

But, at the same time, I hear its good stuff. If they ever bring back
the Pomona or Del Mar Mile, I'd like to go see one.

But at the same time, not to inject hyperbole HERE of all places, WWF
puts on a good show to. "Whats not to like?"

I just think there's something fundamentally wrong when the rider is
better than the bike, and the bike can't change to accomodate, and
vice-a-versa.

> Bottom line on all this is probably how much these guys want it to work
> and how fast they can make it grow, as it stand now, your guess is as
> good as any, but if Edmundson's history in Grand Am says anything, it
> probably will work out, though I still think our dismal economy could
> easily throw them some curves along the way..

Sure. The slow economy may be a good thing for DMG. It will give them a
solid opportunity to create a new culture around this new series. Sucky
for us in the old culture, but we really don't have much say unless an
alternative shows up that we can support.

WERA West I guess...

> Even though he really had no part in causing that crash he still seems
> snake-bit in SB...

It hasn't been good to him, that's for sure.

Regards,

Will Hartung

Re: 'Bamaham

Will Hartung wrote:

> But at the same time, not to inject hyperbole HERE of all places, WWF
> puts on a good show to. "Whats not to like?"
>

Hey they're looking out for all the cute fuzzy animals ;)

< * w w w .wwf.org/>

Bruce

Re: 'Bamaham

In article <DsHPj.1$PK1.0@dfw-service2.ext.ray . com >,
Bruce Hartweg <doNOTuse@nowhere . com > wrote:

> Will Hartung wrote:
>
> > But at the same time, not to inject hyperbole HERE of all places, WWF
> > puts on a good show to. "Whats not to like?"
> >
>
> Hey they're looking out for all the cute fuzzy animals ;)
>
> < * w w w .wwf.org/>

I was surprised that Vince McMahon let the name "WWF' go to the people who had it
first instead of demanding they step into the squared circle and wrassle for it.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Re: 'Bamaham

Howard Kveck wrote:
> In article <DsHPj.1$PK1.0@dfw-service2.ext.ray . com >,
> Bruce Hartweg <doNOTuse@nowhere . com > wrote:
>
>> Will Hartung wrote:
>>
>>> But at the same time, not to inject hyperbole HERE of all places, WWF
>>> puts on a good show to. "Whats not to like?"
>>>
>> Hey they're looking out for all the cute fuzzy animals ;)
>>
>> < * w w w .wwf.org/>
>
> I was surprised that Vince McMahon let the name "WWF' go to the people who had it
> first instead of demanding they step into the squared circle and wrassle for it.
>

he tried - the whole thing came about by him suing them - they counter sued and won
and the WWE was born.

Bruce

Re: 'Bamaham

In article <tO0Qj.4$WO1.2@dfw-service2.ext.ray . com >,
Bruce Hartweg <doNOTuse@nowhere . com > wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > In article <DsHPj.1$PK1.0@dfw-service2.ext.ray . com >,
> > Bruce Hartweg <doNOTuse@nowhere . com > wrote:
> >
> >> Will Hartung wrote:
> >>
> >>> But at the same time, not to inject hyperbole HERE of all places, WWF
> >>> puts on a good show to. "Whats not to like?"
> >>>
> >> Hey they're looking out for all the cute fuzzy animals ;)
> >>
> >> < * w w w .wwf.org/>
> >
> > I was surprised that Vince McMahon let the name "WWF' go to the people who
> > had it first instead of demanding they step into the squared circle and wrassle
> > for it.
>
> he tried - the whole thing came about by him suing them - they counter sued
> and won and the WWE was born.

I was mistaken - I forgot that there was a lawsuit. But the WWF (animal) sued the
WWF (wrestlers) first. More details here:

* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Fund_for_Nature#Abbreviation_dispute

Where's Haystack Calhoun when you need him?

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?