Throwin' a bone?

As they say, the plot thickens..
* roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32140
I hear that DMG is, for the lack of better words, willing to let the
cards fall as they may in SB, but to me, making DSB purse the only one
speaks volumes.
"One major difference between Daytona Superbike and LiterBike is
Daytona Superbike will have a large purse--significantly larger than
the current typical Superbike purse, according to Fraser--while
LiterBike will not have any purse."
To me, and most racer's I've ever known, money talks, but the latest
rumor is that Erik(Buell) claims they'll be race ready in SB, err,
Litre come DIS next year and while I don't doubt they won't have a bike
ready, I'm somewhat "skeptical" it'll be a Yosh killer, but we'll see,
*HOWEVER*, if they do it could easily change how DMG views SB. That
said, It looks that DMG is saying to the OEM's that if it's as good as
you say, show us. And while that may seem high handed to some, to me it
shows they're willing to do whatever it takes to be inclusive, or at
the very least, make it appear they are..

Then it's details, but the one that jumped out is the Michelin thing;
'...Michelin North America Road Race Manager/Sales Manager Ron Wood
expressed the most enthusiasm. ÒWeÕre definitely interested in it.
WeÕre gonna go for it,Ó Wood said with a big smile. ÒItÕs a little bit
different than what itÕs ever been. We decided hereÕs where we draw the
line. WeÕre gonna go for it. I already talked to (Michelin officials
in) France. As a matter of fact, their comments were, ÔWe want it.ÕÓ
Hmm, I'd bet the farm Dunlop wants it too!

Here's a part that could get real sticky as well;
"With regards to the spec tires and spec fuel, Fraser said all classes
will use the same, reasonably-priced spec fuel, but each class might
have a different control tire supplier. For instance, Dunlop may be the
control tire supplier for LiterBike, with Pirelli in MOTO-ST and
Bridgestone in Daytona Superbike."
I dunno, but that sounds like a clusterfuck in the making..

What makes me uneasy is the HP caps in DSB, having a minimum weight I'm
down with, but strangling development I am not! 130 at the rear wheel
may sound decent to some, but I know better..
"Daytona Superbike will be open to Òhomologated and available
motorcycles,Ó will include Òmiddleweight performance horsepower limitsÓ
(approximately 130 horsepower has been mentioned) and will have
Òtargeted and specific power-to-weight ratiosÓ (rider weight included).
The class will have a single tire supplier, a single fuel supplier,
regular Engine Control Unit (ECU) exchanges and only Òhomologated,
available and affordable aftermarket componentsÓ will be allowed."

Rolling starts and the other stuff is just so much window dressing, but
I really dig the thought of a night 200 at 'Tona, though I wonder what
happens to the DSX..
"Daytona Superbike will be the class of the 2009 Daytona 200, which is
tentatively scheduled to take place on Friday night, under the lights
at Daytona International Speedway."
Oh hell yeah!!!

So now DMG shows us a little more and at first glance it looks like
they're half-way willing to play ball with the Nips, as well as *other*
OEM's, but is that what's really happening, or are they just setting
them up?

As the worm turns, stay tuned...




Oh yeah. I also hear that DMG isn't really enthused with the Red Bull
thing, so watch for changes with that too...

T3 wrote:
> "One major difference between Daytona Superbike and LiterBike is Daytona
> Superbike will have a large purse--significantly larger than the current
> typical Superbike purse, according to Fraser--while LiterBike will not
> have any purse."
> To me, and most racer's I've ever known, money talks, but the latest
> rumor is that Erik(Buell) claims they'll be race ready in SB, err, Litre
> come DIS next year and while I don't doubt they won't have a bike ready,
> I'm somewhat "skeptical" it'll be a Yosh killer, but we'll see,
> *HOWEVER*, if they do it could easily change how DMG views SB. That
> said, It looks that DMG is saying to the OEM's that if it's as good as
> you say, show us. And while that may seem high handed to some, to me it
> shows they're willing to do whatever it takes to be inclusive, or at the
> very least, make it appear they are..

Bone maybe, but the meat looks awfully gristly to me.


> Then it's details, but the one that jumped out is the Michelin thing;
> '...Michelin North America Road Race Manager/Sales Manager Ron Wood
> expressed the most enthusiasm. ?We?re definitely interested in it. We?re
> gonna go for it,? Wood said with a big smile. ?It?s a little bit
> different than what it?s ever been. We decided here?s where we draw the
> line. We?re gonna go for it. I already talked to (Michelin officials in)
> France. As a matter of fact, their comments were, ?We want it.??
> Hmm, I'd bet the farm Dunlop wants it too!

You neglected this little gem:

"And speaking of testing, DMG plans to be ?very restrictive on testing?
once the initial work with the control tires and spec fuel is done."

See, factories can test while the little guy can't so no more testing
you yahoo's you. Cheaters! Why don't they just force the teams to
destroy any data they gather at each race so it can't be used next time?
Best to learn the track anew each year -- makes it more fair.

"This year we've added a jump on the back straight and some kitty litter
gravel in turn 7. Before the race, we'll toss some more gravel in
another, unannounced turn, after the sighting lap."

> Here's a part that could get real sticky as well;
> "With regards to the spec tires and spec fuel, Fraser said all classes
> will use the same, reasonably-priced spec fuel, but each class might
> have a different control tire supplier. For instance, Dunlop may be the
> control tire supplier for LiterBike, with Pirelli in MOTO-ST and
> Bridgestone in Daytona Superbike."
> I dunno, but that sounds like a clusterfuck in the making..

And how is this going to affect the clubs as well? Whatever choices they
are going to bubble down to the clubs, which is a boon to the tire of
choice, and sucky for the racers down below.

> Rolling starts and the other stuff is just so much window dressing, but
> I really dig the thought of a night 200 at 'Tona, though I wonder what
> happens to the DSX..
> "Daytona Superbike will be the class of the 2009 Daytona 200, which is
> tentatively scheduled to take place on Friday night, under the lights at
> Daytona International Speedway."
> Oh hell yeah!!!

Oh Hell Yeah! Now I have to take TIME OFF OF WORK to even see the god
damn race! It's not like any more people are going to show up, they're
out on the strip getting liquored up.

Eric B will like the rolling start, keep his clutch intact. The rolling
start is to ensure the race starts on time for TV. No stalls, no grid
fuck ups to delay the start.

> Oh yeah. I also hear that DMG isn't really enthused with the Red Bull
> thing, so watch for changes with that too...

Finally something we can agree on...


Regards,

Will Hartung

On 2008-04-23 00:55:39 -0400, Will Hartung <redrocks@sbcglobal . net > said:

> T3 wrote:
>> "One major difference between Daytona Superbike and LiterBike is
>> Daytona Superbike will have a large purse--significantly larger than
>> the current typical Superbike purse, according to Fraser--while
>> LiterBike will not have any purse."
>> To me, and most racer's I've ever known, money talks, but the latest
>> rumor is that Erik(Buell) claims they'll be race ready in SB, err,
>> Litre come DIS next year and while I don't doubt they won't have a bike
>> ready, I'm somewhat "skeptical" it'll be a Yosh killer, but we'll see,
>> *HOWEVER*, if they do it could easily change how DMG views SB. That
>> said, It looks that DMG is saying to the OEM's that if it's as good as
>> you say, show us. And while that may seem high handed to some, to me it
>> shows they're willing to do whatever it takes to be inclusive, or at
>> the very least, make it appear they are..
>
> Bone maybe, but the meat looks awfully gristly to me.

I think they see the Harley guys as an untapped resource that maybe
Erik can bring back to the fold, but if recent history tells us
anything, well, I dunno..

>
>
>> Then it's details, but the one that jumped out is the Michelin thing;
>> '...Michelin North America Road Race Manager/Sales Manager Ron Wood
>> expressed the most enthusiasm. ÒWeÕre definitely interested in it.
>> WeÕre gonna go for it,Ó Wood said with a big smile. ÒItÕs a little bit
>> different than what itÕs ever been. We decided hereÕs where we draw the
>> line. WeÕre gonna go for it. I already talked to (Michelin officials
>> in) France. As a matter of fact, their comments were, ÔWe want it.ÕÓ
>> Hmm, I'd bet the farm Dunlop wants it too!
>
> You neglected this little gem:
>
> "And speaking of testing, DMG plans to be Òvery restrictive on testingÓ
> once the initial work with the control tires and spec fuel is done."
>
> See, factories can test while the little guy can't so no more testing
> you yahoo's you. Cheaters! Why don't they just force the teams to
> destroy any data they gather at each race so it can't be used next
> time? Best to learn the track anew each year -- makes it more fair.

I think it does too. You've got to realize testing costs money just
like going to a race and if their intent is to level the field testing
has got to be reeled in. The OEM's run multiple riders to begin with
and that gives them an advantage over a one man team from the get-go,
wouldn't you agree? So why should they be able to outspend the smaller
teams testing? Make it fair for all as possible and it looks like thats
what they're trying to do, at least to me. Spending what money you have
testing impacts being able to race a larger schedule too and along that
line moving to a 2 day weekend helps as well. Those extra days adds up
over a season and ends up sacrificing the opportunity to race in other,
or new places, thus expanding the sport and I seriously doubt DMG is
dumb enough to announce a new venue without first checking to see if
all the teams can actually afford to show..

>
> "This year we've added a jump on the back straight and some kitty
> litter gravel in turn 7. Before the race, we'll toss some more gravel
> in another, unannounced turn, after the sighting lap."

Heh, trust me, that wouldn't be the first time..

>
>> Here's a part that could get real sticky as well;
>> "With regards to the spec tires and spec fuel, Fraser said all classes
>> will use the same, reasonably-priced spec fuel, but each class might
>> have a different control tire supplier. For instance, Dunlop may be the
>> control tire supplier for LiterBike, with Pirelli in MOTO-ST and
>> Bridgestone in Daytona Superbike."
>> I dunno, but that sounds like a clusterfuck in the making..
>
> And how is this going to affect the clubs as well? Whatever choices
> they are going to bubble down to the clubs, which is a boon to the
> tire of choice, and sucky for the racers down below.

Damfino, though I do see your point..

>
>> Rolling starts and the other stuff is just so much window dressing, but
>> I really dig the thought of a night 200 at 'Tona, though I wonder what
>> happens to the DSX..
>> "Daytona Superbike will be the class of the 2009 Daytona 200, which is
>> tentatively scheduled to take place on Friday night, under the lights
>> at Daytona International Speedway."
>> Oh hell yeah!!!
>
> Oh Hell Yeah! Now I have to take TIME OFF OF WORK to even see the god
> damn race! It's not like any more people are going to show up, they're
> out on the strip getting liquored up.

I think that one the intents of a night race is to try just that, get
some folks out the beach bars and 'slaw wrasslin' to the track and
remember, they built a bigass bandstand just recently, so watch for
maybe a rock concert Friday night too. Will it work? Fuckifino, but
it'll be interesting to see that's for sure, though if it does, I doubt
it'll happen overnight. The AMA lost a whole generation of bikers to
the bars and party's at Speedweek and it'll take a while, if ever to
get them back, though why anyone would stand five deep at a bar to buy
an $8 beer is beyond me..

>
> Eric B will like the rolling start, keep his clutch intact. The rolling
> start is to ensure the race starts on time for TV. No stalls, no grid
> fuck ups to delay the start.
>
>> Oh yeah. I also hear that DMG isn't really enthused with the Red Bull
>> thing, so watch for changes with that too...
>
> Finally something we can agree on...
>

I think we agree on quite a bit here, but on the RB thing I hear they
might have a slightly different vision on how to bring young guys
along, maybe funneling all the disciplines (MX, FT, Enduro, ect.) into
some kind of novice cup. Makes sense to me...

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:55:39 GMT, Will Hartung
<redrocks@sbcglobal . net > wrote:

>T3 wrote:
>> "One major difference between Daytona Superbike and LiterBike is Daytona
>> Superbike will have a large purse--significantly larger than the current
>> typical Superbike purse, according to Fraser--while LiterBike will not
>> have any purse."
>> To me, and most racer's I've ever known, money talks, but the latest
>> rumor is that Erik(Buell) claims they'll be race ready in SB, err, Litre
>> come DIS next year and while I don't doubt they won't have a bike ready,
>> I'm somewhat "skeptical" it'll be a Yosh killer, but we'll see,
>> *HOWEVER*, if they do it could easily change how DMG views SB. That
>> said, It looks that DMG is saying to the OEM's that if it's as good as
>> you say, show us. And while that may seem high handed to some, to me it
>> shows they're willing to do whatever it takes to be inclusive, or at the
>> very least, make it appear they are..
>
>Bone maybe, but the meat looks awfully gristly to me.
>
>
>> Then it's details, but the one that jumped out is the Michelin thing;
>> '...Michelin North America Road Race Manager/Sales Manager Ron Wood
>> expressed the most enthusiasm. “We’re definitely interested in it. We’re
>> gonna go for it,” Wood said with a big smile. “It’s a little bit
>> different than what it’s ever been. We decided here’s where we draw the
>> line. We’re gonna go for it. I already talked to (Michelin officials in)
>> France. As a matter of fact, their comments were, ‘We want it.’”
>> Hmm, I'd bet the farm Dunlop wants it too!
>
>You neglected this little gem:
>
>"And speaking of testing, DMG plans to be “very restrictive on testing”
>once the initial work with the control tires and spec fuel is done."
>
>See, factories can test while the little guy can't so no more testing
>you yahoo's you. Cheaters! Why don't they just force the teams to
>destroy any data they gather at each race so it can't be used next time?
>Best to learn the track anew each year -- makes it more fair.
>
>"This year we've added a jump on the back straight and some kitty litter
>gravel in turn 7. Before the race, we'll toss some more gravel in
>another, unannounced turn, after the sighting lap."
>

I'm just waiting for them to get annuoncers like Spencer to discuss
the races in terms of "gittin' up unner somebody, gittin' 'em loose,
and puttin' 'em into the wall" as though it was no BFD. Then we'll
know they're RACIN', by God...

T3 <notme@nowhere . net > Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:43:21
>As they say, the plot thickens..
> * roadracingworld . com /news/article/?article=32140

DMG?s presentation states that 10 manufacturers (Aprilia, BMW, Buell,
Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, KTM, Suzuki, Triumph and Yamaha) currently
offer a motorcycle eligible for the class.

Daytona Superbike will be open to ?homologated and available
motorcycles,? will include ?middleweight performance horsepower
limits? (approximately 130 horsepower has been mentioned) and will
have ?targeted and specific power-to-weight ratios? (rider weight
included). The class will have a single tire supplier, a single fuel
supplier, regular Engine Control Unit (ECU) exchanges and only
?homologated, available and affordable aftermarket components? will
be allowed.

Hang on. So something like an HP limited FX but with homologated parts?
So what bikes are they talking about for Aprilia, BMW, Buell, Ducati,
and KTM? Is this one of those desmo 850, aircooled pushrod 1300 things?
A KTM RC8 with a restrictor kit?

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