Virago charging problem

Virago charging problem

My 1988 Virago has been having problems with the charging system recently. A
few weeks ago I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low, which was
my fault as it had been sitting there behind the rear cylinder for ~6 months
and I forgot it should be checked (oops).

When I did top it up it kept losing the charge over about a week so I
thought I'd killed the battery as it tested as being charged (by the bike)
at 12.8v-13.8v but it didn't seem to be holding it. I was about to buy
another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a battery
charger indoors) within a day or two, but yesterday the engine started
popping and hesitating when accelerating. Thinking this might be related to
the battery not keeping a charge I turned on the lights whilst riding and
the popping and hesitation got much worse. I tried the horn and there was
only a very faint sound from it, yet the indicators seemed to be working
fine. When I got home I tested the charging system at the battery and there
was nothing at all - no variation in the battery's voltage whatever the
revs.

I've tested the alternator's output according to my manual - there is an
electrical connector with 3 white wires which are supposed to show a
resistance of 0.34 and 0.42 ohms between any two and they've tested ok so
the stator looks ok.

Any ideas what I can try next? My manual doesn't say how to test the
regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure
gave high voltage...

Any other tests I can try?

--
Si - XV535

Re: Virago charging problem

On 30 Aug, 13:40, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot"
<eastREMOVEk...@gmail,com > wrote:
> My 1988 Virago has been having problems with the charging system recently. A
> few weeks ago I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low, which was
> my fault as it had been sitting there behind the rear cylinder for ~6 months
> and I forgot it should be checked (oops).
>
> When I did top it up it kept losing the charge over about a week so I
> thought I'd killed the battery as it tested as being charged (by the bike)
> at 12.8v-13.8v but it didn't seem to be holding it. I was about to buy
> another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a battery
> charger indoors) within a day or two, but yesterday the engine started
> popping and hesitating when accelerating. Thinking this might be related to
> the battery not keeping a charge I turned on the lights whilst riding and
> the popping and hesitation got much worse. I tried the horn and there was
> only a very faint sound from it, yet the indicators seemed to be working
> fine. When I got home I tested the charging system at the battery and there
> was nothing at all - no variation in the battery's voltage whatever the
> revs.
>
> I've tested the alternator's output according to my manual - there is an
> electrical connector with 3 white wires which are supposed to show a
> resistance of 0.34 and 0.42 ohms between any two and they've tested ok so
> the stator looks ok.
>
> Any ideas what I can try next? My manual doesn't say how to test the
> regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure
> gave high voltage...
>

If the alternator is, erm, alternating, then it has to be the
regulator/rectifier. Once they go pop, they're not really repairable.
Not an unknown event. Go out and buy a new one (it might be pricey)
and plug it in. Job done.

Re: Virago charging problem

chateau.murray@btinternet,com wrote:

> If the alternator is, erm, alternating, then it has to be the
> regulator/rectifier. Once they go pop, they're not really repairable.
> Not an unknown event. Go out and buy a new one (it might be pricey)
> and plug it in. Job done.

If I could find it!!

A glance at a manual is a dangerous thing.

I noticed that the manual said the regulator could be mounted near the
engine/driveshaft, or under the frame [1]. As I've never noticed it behind
or under the frame I thought "That finned thing just below the engine must
be it" and proceeded to undo the three Allen bolts holding it on. Oil
started leaking out. Ho yus? Some manner of oil seal gone, is it? Got a
receptacle, undid the bolts. ALL the oil came out along with the oil pump
strainer. T'aint that then. Ah well, I like clean oil anyway so it's an
excuse to put new stuff in.

Still haven't found it. Perhaps it's actually underneath the bike?

--
Si - XV535

[1] http :// www .arcl40.dsl.pipex,com /stuff/index.html

Re: Virago charging problem

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
> chateau.murray@btinternet,com wrote:
>
>> If the alternator is, erm, alternating, then it has to be the
>> regulator/rectifier. Once they go pop, they're not really repairable.
>> Not an unknown event. Go out and buy a new one (it might be pricey)
>> and plug it in. Job done.
>
> If I could find it!!
>

Underneath the bike just above the exhaust expansion chamber.

FFS.

--
Si - XV535

Re: Virago charging problem

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote:
> [possible alternator troubles]
>
> If I could find it!!
>
> A glance at a manual is a dangerous thing.
>
> I noticed that the manual said the regulator could be mounted near the
> engine/driveshaft, or under the frame [1]. As I've never noticed it behind
> or under the frame I thought "That finned thing just below the engine must
> be it" and proceeded to undo the three Allen bolts holding it on. Oil
> started leaking out. Ho yus? Some manner of oil seal gone, is it? Got a
> receptacle, undid the bolts. ALL the oil came out along with the oil pump
> strainer. T'aint that then. Ah well, I like clean oil anyway so it's an
> excuse to put new stuff in.
>
> Still haven't found it. Perhaps it's actually underneath the bike?


My Haynes manual says:

On 1987 and 1988 models, the regulator/rectifier unit us mounted
on the rear underside of the frame. On 1989 and later models, it
is retained to the inside of the finned cover, just to the rear
of the lower left frame cover.

The only illustration is for the older models and to me it looks
like it's mounted at the rear end of the frame, just ahead of
where the rear fender is bolted onto the frame. Good luck in
actually getting there :-/

Regards & HTH,
Tobias

PS: My manuals "electrical section" is for XV535s only. YMMV.
PPS: I've got another edition of the Haynes manual for V-twins, I
can check in there, too.

--
In the future, everyone will be anonymous for 15 minutes.

Re: Virago charging problem


**************************************************
>On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:40:20 +0100, "Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote:

>My 1988 Virago has been having problems with the charging system recently. A
>few weeks ago I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low, which was
>my fault as it had been sitting there behind the rear cylinder for ~6 months
>and I forgot it should be checked (oops).
>
>When I did top it up it kept losing the charge over about a week so I
>thought I'd killed the battery as it tested as being charged (by the bike)
>at 12.8v-13.8v but it didn't seem to be holding it. I was about to buy
>another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a battery
>charger indoors) within a day or two, but yesterday the engine started
>popping and hesitating when accelerating. Thinking this might be related to
>the battery not keeping a charge I turned on the lights whilst riding and
>the popping and hesitation got much worse. I tried the horn and there was
>only a very faint sound from it, yet the indicators seemed to be working
>fine. When I got home I tested the charging system at the battery and there
>was nothing at all - no variation in the battery's voltage whatever the
>revs.
>
>I've tested the alternator's output according to my manual - there is an
>electrical connector with 3 white wires which are supposed to show a
>resistance of 0.34 and 0.42 ohms between any two and they've tested ok so
>the stator looks ok.
>
>Any ideas what I can try next? My manual doesn't say how to test the
>regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure
>gave high voltage...
>
>Any other tests I can try?
***************************************

Make sure you have a good clean ground contact from the battery back
to the system. (especially from the cable end to the engine (or
frame).


Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF

Re: Virago charging problem

Wudsracer wrote:
>
> Make sure you have a good clean ground contact from the battery back
> to the system. (especially from the cable end to the engine (or
> frame).
>

Thanks, I've checked that - it took a while just to follow the cable back to
where it's fixed! It doesn't look as though it's been disturbed at all but
I'll have to grow some really long thin fingers to undo the connection and
clean it up, just to make sure!

--
Si - XV535

Re: Virago charging problem


"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote

> I was about to buy
> another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a battery
> charger indoors) within a day or two,

If this means: I charged it indoors and let it sit out of the bike for 2
days and it was dead........then the battery IS bad and should be replaced,
regardless of what else is happening.

If it means: I charged it and put it back in the bike and it was dead after
2 days, the path is not quite so clear but still likely the battery is
toast. Because: "I noticed that the battery fluid level was very low" and
at one point, the charging system appeared to have some output.

I would install a new, fully charged battery and then test the charging
system again. A (very) bad battery might be skewing the results.

Re: Virago charging problem

Ken Abrams wrote:
> "Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote
>
>> I was about to buy
>> another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a
>> battery charger indoors) within a day or two,
>
> If this means: I charged it indoors and let it sit out of the bike
> for 2 days and it was dead........then the battery IS bad and should
> be replaced, regardless of what else is happening.
>
> If it means: I charged it and put it back in the bike and it was dead
> after 2 days, the path is not quite so clear but still likely the
> battery is toast. Because: "I noticed that the battery fluid level
> was very low" and at one point, the charging system appeared to have
> some output.
>

This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike fine for
a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging voltage today,
when the battery was fully charged and starting the bike easily, and it's
showing no charge at all - it doesn't vary at all from idle up to lots rpm
so the meter appears to be showing only the battery's voltage, which is
still a little low at ~11.8v.

> I would install a new, fully charged battery and then test the
> charging system again. A (very) bad battery might be skewing the
> results.

I'll do that. I was going to buy one anyway as I've probably damaged it by
letting it get dry.

Re: Virago charging problem

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
> Ken Abrams wrote:
>> "Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote
>>
>>> I was about to buy
>>> another battery as it is now losing its charge (charged with a
>>> battery charger indoors) within a day or two,
>> If this means: I charged it indoors and let it sit out of the bike
>> for 2 days and it was dead........then the battery IS bad and should
>> be replaced, regardless of what else is happening.
>>
>> If it means: I charged it and put it back in the bike and it was dead
>> after 2 days, the path is not quite so clear but still likely the
>> battery is toast. Because: "I noticed that the battery fluid level
>> was very low" and at one point, the charging system appeared to have
>> some output.
>>
>
> This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike fine for
> a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging voltage today,
> when the battery was fully charged and starting the bike easily, and it's
> showing no charge at all - it doesn't vary at all from idle up to lots rpm
> so the meter appears to be showing only the battery's voltage, which is
> still a little low at ~11.8v.
>
>> I would install a new, fully charged battery and then test the
>> charging system again. A (very) bad battery might be skewing the
>> results.
>
> I'll do that. I was going to buy one anyway as I've probably damaged it by
> letting it get dry.
>
>
>

I don't have a great deal of experience in this stuff, but anyway here's
my two cents about some of the questions:

1) I'd say from what's been posted so far that as yet you can't be sure
the battery is too marginal to keep using. If you do buy a new battery,
I would try it in the bike and then depending on the results, I might
keep it as a known good test battery, trickle-charging it at least once
every couple of weeks.

2) Some trickle chargers, such as the Ctek, will recover a battery that
it is not too far gone, eg., somewhat sulphated.

3) Your alternator/regulator/rectifier could be acting differently at
different times, depending on how hot they are. What looks good when
the engine is cold may go bad when those parts heat up eg., because of
increased resistance.

4) If you haven't already, you might want to take readings both when the
engine is cold and hot. Mike Nixon at http :// www .motorcycleproject,com
has some tips about different tests, such as current, for isolating the
alternator and regulator. IIRC he suggests using a multi-meter that has
a 10 Amp ammeter plug and/or one of those cheap clamp DC current meters
that can be bought for less than fifteen bucks.

5) Be sure to use distilled water, I think sometimes it's called
de-ionized water for topping up a wet cell battery. The minerals in tap
water might prevent the proper chemical reactions, alter the makeup of
the plates and liquid.

p

Re: Virago charging problem

paul c wrote:
>

<Snip>

All noted, thanks. I'm just off to take the battery to brother-in-law, who
has one of those miraculous chargers.

--
Si - XV535

Re: Virago charging problem


"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote

> This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike fine
for
> a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging voltage today,
> when the battery was fully charged and starting the bike easily, and it's
> showing no charge at all - it doesn't vary at all from idle up to lots rpm
> so the meter appears to be showing only the battery's voltage, which is
> still a little low at ~11.8v.
>

I'm sure that all the conversation to follow will be interesting.......but
maybe not very useful. ;-)
The above pretty much tells the story. While a new battery may not be
strictly necessary at this point, it won't be money wasted. The real
problem, however, is that the charging system is shot.
At this point, I'd be taking it to a shop.
Good luck!

Re: Virago charging problem

Ken Abrams wrote:
> "Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" <eastREMOVEkent@gmail,com > wrote
>
>> This one. I charged it indoors for ~6 hours and it started the bike
>> fine for a couple of days but then died again. I tested the charging
>> voltage today, when the battery was fully charged and starting the
>> bike easily, and it's showing no charge at all - it doesn't vary at
>> all from idle up to lots rpm so the meter appears to be showing only
>> the battery's voltage, which is still a little low at ~11.8v.
>>
>
> I'm sure that all the conversation to follow will be
> interesting.......but maybe not very useful. ;-)
> The above pretty much tells the story. While a new battery may not be
> strictly necessary at this point, it won't be money wasted. The real
> problem, however, is that the charging system is shot.
> At this point, I'd be taking it to a shop.
> Good luck!

Thanks :o)

I'm going to take it to bits next week as it's been suggested that the sun
might come out. I'm quite doubtful but you never know.

This morning, after a good charging on a super-duper bike battery charger,
it was showing charging between the appropriate voltages but when I'd
switched it on and off a few times to do some tests it was showing no charge
at all.

For all I know it could just be a dodgy wire, or that the battery's dying
and my meter's playing up!

I hate 'lectrics!

--
Si - XV535

Re: Virago charging problem

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:

> My manual doesn't say how to test the
>regulator but is it likely to be that? I thought that a regulator failure
>gave high voltage...

I have never yet seen the voltage regulator part of a rectifier regulator
cause high voltage. There are two reasons for that. First is the fact that
permanent magnet motorcycle alternators are rather small so they cannot raise
the voltage much over battery voltage. Second, if the voltage regulator
circuit fails,
one or two power diodes in the RR burn out right away and the voltage
regulator current output is cut in half.

I have discussed testing permanent magnet alternators and RR testing in this
group many times, so you can google for "permanent magnet" and find out how
to do the diode test.

Also, go to the Electrosport USA website and study the technical support
information.

http :// houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit,com /partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?deptId=423938&machineId=7911


The rectifier regulator is item #1

--
Message posted via MotorcycleKB,com
http :// www .motorcyclekb,com /Uwe/Forums.aspx/tech/200708/1

Re: Virago charging problem

"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB,com " <u33665@uwe> wrote:

<The usual bollocks>

>
http :// houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit,com /partsbandit/ShowSchematic.aspx?
deptId=423938&machineId=7911
>
>
> The rectifier regulator is item #1
>
That's assuming he has a 1988 model (which is very early).

Other (latrer) models have a different unit, in a different place, as
has been mentioned.

Studying schematics is not the be-all and end-all, I'm afraid.

--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 CB125 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....