handlebar alignment

handlebar alignment

Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
need doing appreciated.

Re: handlebar alignment

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:30 -0700, seabreeze <corriequk@yahoo . com >
wrote:

>Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>need doing appreciated.

Loosen your top and bottom triple clamp bolts, (the ones holding the
fork tubes) along with the axle nut and pinch bolts (or whatever you
have holding the axle).

Stand in front of the bike with the wheel between your legs, line up
the wheel straight ahead, twist the handlebars until it's all aligned
correctly. Tighten bolts, recheck alignment.

DJ

Re: handlebar alignment


"IdaSpode" <not@home_watching.tv> wrote in
news:gnn1i31k39d7f2q3mlg3497mcmqil6p6i2@4ax . com ...
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:30 -0700, seabreeze <corriequk@yahoo . com >
> wrote:
>
>>Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>>for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>>a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>>back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>>from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>>are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>>handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>>tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>>need doing appreciated.
>
> Loosen your top and bottom triple clamp bolts, (the ones holding the
> fork tubes) along with the axle nut and pinch bolts (or whatever you
> have holding the axle).
>
> Stand in front of the bike with the wheel between your legs, line up
> the wheel straight ahead, twist the handlebars until it's all aligned
> correctly. Tighten bolts, recheck alignment.

Correct but I wouldn't do it. Not if a bloody garage fucked up
the bike like that.
Let them fix it. Then (if practically possible) never go to them
again. Correct fork alignment is sort of critical on a motorcycle.

--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / WR450F FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail

Re: handlebar alignment

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:54:17 GMT, "OH-" <olehat.holmblad@comhem.sehat>
wrote:

>
>"IdaSpode" <not@home_watching.tv> wrote in
>news:gnn1i31k39d7f2q3mlg3497mcmqil6p6i2@4ax . com ...
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:30 -0700, seabreeze <corriequk@yahoo . com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>>>for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>>>a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>>>back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>>>from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>>>are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>>>handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>>>tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>>>need doing appreciated.
>>
>> Loosen your top and bottom triple clamp bolts, (the ones holding the
>> fork tubes) along with the axle nut and pinch bolts (or whatever you
>> have holding the axle).
>>
>> Stand in front of the bike with the wheel between your legs, line up
>> the wheel straight ahead, twist the handlebars until it's all aligned
>> correctly. Tighten bolts, recheck alignment.
>
>Correct but I wouldn't do it. Not if a bloody garage fucked up
>the bike like that.
>Let them fix it. Then (if practically possible) never go to them
>again. Correct fork alignment is sort of critical on a motorcycle.

On one hand, I agree, the shop is responsible and should make it
right. But on the other hand, if it were me, I'd take the 15 minutes
to do it myself and make note not to trust that shop again. Do you
really want to take the time to go to the shop and possibly need to
leave the bike there until they can get to it? Seems like this just
gives them another chance to muck up the bike.

DJ

Re: handlebar alignment

IdaSpode wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 20:54:17 GMT, "OH-" <olehat.holmblad@comhem.sehat>
> wrote:
>
>> "IdaSpode" <not@home watching.tv> wrote in
>> news:gnn1i31k39d7f2q3mlg3497mcmqil6p6i2@4ax . com ...
>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:30 -0700, seabreeze <corriequk@yahoo . com >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>>>> for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>>>> a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>>>> back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>>> >from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>>>> are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>>>> handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>>>> tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>>>> need doing appreciated.
>>> Loosen your top and bottom triple clamp bolts, (the ones holding the
>>> fork tubes) along with the axle nut and pinch bolts (or whatever you
>>> have holding the axle).
>>>
>>> Stand in front of the bike with the wheel between your legs, line up
>>> the wheel straight ahead, twist the handlebars until it's all aligned
>>> correctly. Tighten bolts, recheck alignment.
>> Correct but I wouldn't do it. Not if a bloody garage fucked up
>> the bike like that.
>> Let them fix it. Then (if practically possible) never go to them
>> again. Correct fork alignment is sort of critical on a motorcycle.
>
> On one hand, I agree, the shop is responsible and should make it
> right. But on the other hand, if it were me, I'd take the 15 minutes
> to do it myself and make note not to trust that shop again. Do you
> really want to take the time to go to the shop and possibly need to
> leave the bike there until they can get to it? Seems like this just
> gives them another chance to muck up the bike.
>
> DJ


I get the impression that an inordinate number of (street) bikes need
their head bearings/races replaced when I'd think that it would be wheel
and other drive-train bearings that would wear out sooner (this may be
not so true of off-road bikes). From a couple of incidents I've seen,
my guess is that some people including pro' mechanics make the races way
too tight, eg., they torque a race nut as well as the top nut. Just my
theory.

I remember buying a used ch250 scooter and noticing very tight steering.
Owner said he liked it that way for highway stability. After a year,
it was nice and loose. When I took it apart, the bottom of the upper
race was cracked almost all the way through so I replaced everything.
Manual said to snug the nut above the upper race then back off 1/8 turn
which made sense to me as Dad had told me many years to do my bicycle
cones by hand. Whereas a mechanic I knew took a wrench to it and
applied his muscle. After he left, I backed it off and tightened by hand.

Re: handlebar alignment

paul c wrote:

>I get the impression that an inordinate number of (street) bikes need
>their head bearings/races replaced when I'd think that it would be wheel
>and other drive-train bearings that would wear out sooner (this may be
>not so true of off-road bikes).

The wheel bearings are usually balls, though I have seen a few bikes with
roller bearings in the wheels. Each time the front wheel hits a bump, a
different ball or inner race takes the hit.

Steering head bearings are just rotating back and forth and the balls will
dig into the lower races.

Also, the steering head bearings are getting hit with forces that are
multiplied by the action of a lever arm that's about 1 foot long.

>From a couple of incidents I've seen,
>my guess is that some people including pro' mechanics make the races way
>too tight, eg., they torque a race nut as well as the top nut. Just my
>theory.

Initial torquing of the adjusting nut seats the races. Then the adjusting nut
should be backed off and adjusted with a fish scale on the handlebars. It
should take about 1/2 a pound of force to start the front fork turning, if
the bike has street type handlebars.

One pound of force on a clip on bar should move the fork on a sport bike.

--
Message posted via MotorcycleKB . com
* w w w .motorcyclekb . com /Uwe/Forums.aspx/tech/200710/1

Re: handlebar alignment

Albrecht via MotorcycleKB . com wrote:
> paul c wrote:
>
>> I get the impression that an inordinate number of (street) bikes need
>> their head bearings/races replaced when I'd think that it would be wheel
>> and other drive-train bearings that would wear out sooner (this may be
>> not so true of off-road bikes).
>
> The wheel bearings are usually balls, though I have seen a few bikes with
> roller bearings in the wheels. Each time the front wheel hits a bump, a
> different ball or inner race takes the hit.
>
> Steering head bearings are just rotating back and forth and the balls will
> dig into the lower races.
>
> Also, the steering head bearings are getting hit with forces that are
> multiplied by the action of a lever arm that's about 1 foot long.
> ...

Thanks, that seems an important point about the "back-and-forth" forces
being multiplied.

Re: handlebar alignment

"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB . com " <u33665@uwe> wrote:

> The wheel bearings are usually balls, though I have seen a few bikes with
> roller bearings in the wheels. Each time the front wheel hits a bump, a
> different ball or inner race takes the hit.
>
> Steering head bearings are just rotating back and forth and the balls will
> dig into the lower races.
>
> Also, the steering head bearings are getting hit with forces that are
> multiplied by the action of a lever arm that's about 1 foot long.

This is all absolutely right. Steering heads don't rotate constantly -
they just turn a few degrees one way and the other and they are always
being walloped by road shocks.


--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 CB125 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

Re: handlebar alignment

paul c <toledobythesea@ooyah.ac> wrote:

> I get the impression that an inordinate number of (street) bikes need
> their head bearings/races replaced when I'd think that it would be wheel
> and other drive-train bearings that would wear out sooner (this may be
> not so true of off-road bikes). From a couple of incidents I've seen,
> my guess is that some people including pro' mechanics make the races way
> too tight, eg., they torque a race nut as well as the top nut. Just my
> theory.

Um, your theory would be wrong.


--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 CB125 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

Re: handlebar alignment


"IdaSpode" <not@home_watching.tv> wrote in message
news:gnn1i31k39d7f2q3mlg3497mcmqil6p6i2@4ax . com ...
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:18:30 -0700, seabreeze <corriequk@yahoo . com >
> wrote:
>
>>Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>>for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>>a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>>back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>>from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>>are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>>handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>>tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>>need doing appreciated.
>
> Loosen your top and bottom triple clamp bolts, (the ones holding the
> fork tubes) along with the axle nut and pinch bolts (or whatever you
> have holding the axle).
>
> Stand in front of the bike with the wheel between your legs, line up
> the wheel straight ahead, twist the handlebars until it's all aligned
> correctly.

Tighten bolts,
TIGHTEN WITH A GOOD TORQUE WRENCH TO THE PROPER SPEC !!!




recheck alignment.
>
> DJ

Re: handlebar alignment

seabreeze wrote:
>Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>need doing appreciated.

Your forks are just slightly "tweaked". You can google for "forks" and
"tweaked" and "triple clamps" to learn how to fix this minor fork alignment
problem.

--
Message posted via * w w w .motorcyclekb . com

Re: handlebar alignment

Yes SIR: You putnuckers use a thick piece ½' of glass ,
about 7'x14' ,check the fork alignment,
and the rear wheel.............

Regards J.Wayne
.
"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB . com " <u33665@uwe> wrote in message
news:7a46a46fbd691@uwe...
> seabreeze wrote:
>>Took the bike (XV535 virago) in for steering head bearings replacement
>>for MOT. When collected and driven away the bars don't appear to be in
>>a straight line when driving straight ahead - the right side slightly
>>back and the left slightly forward. I can't really see how this can be
>>from looking at the way the risers and clamps at the top of the forks
>>are assembled, although it seems that to replace the bearings the
>>handlebars are probably removed along with the forks. Taking it back
>>tomorrow and hoping they can sort it. Any thoughts about what might
>>need doing appreciated.
>
> Your forks are just slightly "tweaked". You can google for "forks" and
> "tweaked" and "triple clamps" to learn how to fix this minor fork
> alignment
> problem.
>
> --
> Message posted via * w w w .motorcyclekb . com
>

Re: handlebar alignment

Patric D.G wrote:
>Yes SIR: You putnuckers use a thick piece ½' of glass ,
> about 7'x14' ,check the fork alignment,
> and the rear wheel.............

About 20 feet of string works for me, but somebody once claimed that burned
out flourescent tubes were very straight and free as well.

--
Message posted via * w w w .motorcyclekb . com

Re: handlebar alignment

Took the bike back, they put it on their machine (not quite sure what
kind of machine it was, but something to do with the alignment) and
said it is all true. They said they slightly adjusted the windscreen
position (??). I asked one of their mechanics to take it around the
block to see what he thought, he said it seemed fine to him. I felt
reassured as he seemed more trustworthy, but am still unsure.

The background to this is that the day I had the work done, I said I
wanted the steering head bearings replaced as it was an MOT failure on
just this, and took along the failure notice for their information. It
was only booked in for this work to be done as arranged by phone. When
I got there they said it wouldn't be done by 12 as originally
arranged, but at 2.30pm. This was important as I had my 11 year old
daughter with me and entertaining her on a cold grey autumnal day was
difficult, so was already a little worn out. When I collected the bike
they had MOT'd it and wanted me to pay, even though I hadn't asked for
that to be done, and that the mechanic had worked on it for part of
his lunch break to get it finished (giving me the impression it had
been finished hurriedly). They said that the MOT couldn't be cancelled
without the tester in the shop and he wouldn't be back for an hour,
leaving me another hour to pacify my daughter who had better things to
do with her time at half-term. The original MOT tester said they would
do a free retest so I wouldn't have had to pay for a retest anyway. I
agreed to pay what I had on me in cash (=A3120 - the estimate was =A3110).
I didn't feel comfortable with the attitude of the member of staff, so
that had already unsettled my faith in that shop - and this is a main
yamaha dealer whom I went to assuming they would be able to do the job
on time and on price seeing as they should be more familiar with this
bike. I knew what I had asked them to do, they had my mobile number, I
felt annoyed with them but having my daughter with me made it
difficult to be as assertive with them as I would have liked.

I took it out yesterday and my impression is still that it doesn't
feel quite straight somehow, but that I could get used to it. On a
normal downward road camber to the left it feels as if it is pulling
slightly right, and on a down camber to the right it feels straight.
It could be that the bars were somehow already not quite straight,
although there are no signs at all of the bike having been dropped,
that the bars are not quite central by a small amount (which is how it
appears and would be easy enough to fix myself), or that as suggested
here, there is something up with the alignment following the repair.

My feeling is to go to the other shop (the one that did the original
MOT) and ask them for their opinion. At the moment I wouldn't feel
that confident doing it myself by eye.

Re: handlebar alignment

On Oct 27, 3:02 am, seabreeze <corrie...@yahoo . com > wrote:
> Took the bike back, they put it on their machine (not quite sure what
> kind of machine it was, but something to do with the alignment) and
> said it is all true.

Perhaps it was a laser machine that checks the chassis alignment.
Lasers work better than the old string method where the rider runs a
30-ft length of string through
the back of the rear wheel, then walks the ends of the string around
the back of the
motorcycle, coming out with the opposite ends of the string in the
front.

Then the rider pullts the string tight so it touches the edges of the
rear tire in four places and he eyeballs the distance between the
strings and the front tire on both sides.

Since the front tire is usually narrower than the rear tire, any
lateral misalignment shows up on one side of the string being further
away from the tire than the other side.

When I do the string method, I tie the front ends of the string to a
cinder block to hold them tight while I use a ruler to measure the
distance from the string to the edges of the front tire.

The string method only shows *lateral* misalignment, it doesn't show
*vertical* misalignment.

The rear wheel is supposed to be vertical when the motorcycle is
travelling down a level, uncambered road. And the front wheel is
supposed to be vertical at the same time and the handlebars (if they
haven't been been in a crash) are supposed to be at 90 degrees to the
front tire when the front tire is pointed straight ahead.

So, old time riders would set the motorcycle up on the center stand,
or prop it upright if there was no stand, and they would lay down in
front of the motorcycle on their belly and look at the front tire and
see if the saw more of the rear tire on one side of the front tire, or
if the front tire wasn't vertical.

If front and rear tires aren't vertical at the same time, the
motorcycle will run down the road like a trotting dog. If you've ever
watched some dogs run, you may have noticed that they run with their
hind legs a little off to one side from their front legs.

When a motorcycle has lateral misalignment or vertical misalignment,
it will shake when you go over bumps.

They said they slightly adjusted the windscreen
> position (??).

Yes, it sounds possible that a handlebar mounted windscreen could be a
little misaligned to the handlebars.
>
> The background to this is that the day I had the work done, I said I
> wanted the steering head bearings replaced as it was an MOT failure on
> just this, and took along the failure notice for their information.

> I took it out yesterday and my impression is still that it doesn't
> feel quite straight somehow, but that I could get used to it. On a
> normal downward road camber to the left it feels as if it is pulling
> slightly right, and on a down camber to the right it feels straight.

Do you usually ride as far to the left as possible? The front wheel
will try to climb up a camber and it will wear out the right side of
the front tire. In the USA, it's opposite, we keep right and the left
side of the front tire wears out first.

> It could be that the bars were somehow already not quite straight,
> although there are no signs at all of the bike having been dropped,
> that the bars are not quite central by a small amount (which is how it
> appears and would be easy enough to fix myself), or that as suggested
> here, there is something up with the alignment following the repair.

It's possible for tubular handlebars to get bent up on one side or
backwards. You can visually inspect for an up bend by standing in
front of the motorcycle when it's on the centerstand. You can see a
backwards bend by standing above the motorcycle when it's on the
centerstand.

When I do a home inspection, I use string and I use a tape measure. I
measure from the center of the front axle of both sides back to the
motorcycle frame. When the measurements are the same, the front wheel
should be straight ahead and vertical.

Then I measure from the ends of the handlebars to a point in the
center of the seat
asfarback as possible. The measurements should be the same. Sometimes
the throttle twist grip will be a little further to the right than the
other grip is to the left. so I have to watch for that.

If the bars aren't centered in the clamps, it's easy enough to loosen
the clamps and center them, but be careful that the handlebar doesn't
rotate forward or backwards, changing the angle of the control levers
and the position of the mirrors.
>
> My feeling is to go to the other shop (the one that did the original
> MOT) and ask them for their opinion. At the moment I wouldn't feel
> that confident doing it myself by eye.

With a name like "Cori", I suppose you're female and not as
mechanically-inclined as a man. Motorcycles are more of a hobby for a
man who likes to tinker with his toys. The Japanese have tried to get
the whole world onto motorcycles, but the mechanically disinclined
person is going to be dissatisfied or absolutely angry with the $tealer
$hips and their mechanic$ after a few visits.