Euro diesel reaches the US

Euro diesel reaches the US

* news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm

Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
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chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US


This is as far as I can get with your link:
* news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/



"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ic3zs0.qij5ge1ib7e60N%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk...
> * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7232357.stm
>
> Quite interesting. Especially for Krusty, I have no doubt.
>
>
> --
> BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
> GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
> BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
> chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

Anonymous <com@com . com > wrote:

> This is as far as I can get with your link:
> * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/
>
>
Get a decent browser, then.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US



I've got a decent browser....



"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ic43x6.1lcxuxy12vdrmyN%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk...
> Anonymous <com@com . com > wrote:
>
>> This is as far as I can get with your link:
>> * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/
>>
>>
> Get a decent browser, then.
>
>
> --
> BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
> GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
> BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
> chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US


"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ic43x6.1lcxuxy12vdrmyN%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk...
> Anonymous <com@com . com > wrote:
>
>> This is as far as I can get with your link:
>> * news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/
>>
>>
> Get a decent browser, then.
>
>
> --
> BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
> GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
> BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
> chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
I had issues with the link initially as well. I think the press has the
wrong idea about the American consumer. Due in part, to our more stringent
pollution standards, there hasn't been a wide selection of diesel
automobiles. Couple that with the lack of government subsidies that exist
in the European countries where diesels are the most popular and it isn't
economical to buy diesels. You can't save enough on fuel that costs 20%
more than petrol to recoup the $2500 premium for the engine. If someone
would offer a package that made economical sense, most of the real or
perceived "soft" objections would disappear.

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

LJ <laremoDelete@yahoo . com > wrote:

> Due in part, to our more stringent
> pollution standards,

A dmodern diesel engine, like a European diesel, is less poluting than a
petrol engine. Less NOX, less CO2 and (with a particulate trap fitted)
less particulates too.

> there hasn't been a wide selection of diesel
> automobiles. Couple that with the lack of government subsidies that exist
> in the European countries where diesels are the most popular and it isn't
> economical to buy diesels.

Diesel cars and diesel fuel are *not* subsidised in Europe. Where did
you get this nonsense from? It *is* slightly cheaper in some countries
than petrol, and it is a fair bit cheaper in a few, but it is definitely
not subsidised. It presently costs £1.10/litre in the UK, for example,
and about euro1.20/litre in France and Germany.

> You can't save enough on fuel that costs 20%
> more than petrol to recoup the $2500 premium for the engine.

Depends how pricey the fuel is to begin with. At our rates, you can.
Maybe not in the US. And there is no premium for diesel engines in
Europe, not any more, because we make so many of them. The economies of
scale are there.

> If someone
> would offer a package that made economical sense, most of the real or
> perceived "soft" objections would disappear.

See above.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US


"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ic4xfp.wcsfqm1m4j27cN%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk...
> LJ <laremoDelete@yahoo . com > wrote:
>
>> Due in part, to our more stringent
>> pollution standards,
>
> A dmodern diesel engine, like a European diesel, is less poluting than a
> petrol engine. Less NOX, less CO2 and (with a particulate trap fitted)
> less particulates too.
>
>> there hasn't been a wide selection of diesel
>> automobiles. Couple that with the lack of government subsidies that
>> exist
>> in the European countries where diesels are the most popular and it isn't
>> economical to buy diesels.
>
> Diesel cars and diesel fuel are *not* subsidised in Europe. Where did
> you get this nonsense from? It *is* slightly cheaper in some countries
> than petrol, and it is a fair bit cheaper in a few, but it is definitely
> not subsidised. It presently costs £1.10/litre in the UK, for example,
> and about euro1.20/litre in France and Germany.

Which equates to $8.1 a US gallon Just wait till you are paying that for
fuel and I'll bet diesels suddenly become much more popular

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

Dieseldes <desmond@orange . net > wrote:

> > Diesel cars and diesel fuel are *not* subsidised in Europe. Where did
> > you get this nonsense from? It *is* slightly cheaper in some countries
> > than petrol, and it is a fair bit cheaper in a few, but it is definitely
> > not subsidised. It presently costs £1.10/litre in the UK, for example,
> > and about euro1.20/litre in France and Germany.
>
> Which equates to $8.1 a US gallon Just wait till you are paying that for
> fuel and I'll bet diesels suddenly become much more popular

If there is one good thing about the sky-high European taxation of fuel,
it's this:

It insulates us from the worst of the oil price rises.

You guys are used to paying peanuts for fuel, because the tax is low and
your entire infrastructure is built around cheap energy. The price of
oil doubles and so, damn nearly, does your price of fuel.

OTOH, because 80% of the price of a UK gallon of fuel is tax, the actual
oil component is fairly small. We are completely used and conditioned to
working on expensive fuel (one reason why the European, and especially
UK, haulage industry is about the most efficient in the world).

So if the price of oil doubles, the price of fuel at the pumps rises,
sure - but not by that much. We can work around it, live with it, raise
our prices to allow for it but only raise them a little.

I hate to say it, but the US dependence on dirt-cheap fuel has *got* to
change, because you are out of step with the rest of the world. And the
rest of the world is not going to slash its taxes on fuel. You are going
to have to raise yours.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

On Feb 11, 2:50=EF=BF=BDpm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

> I hate to say it, but the US dependence on dirt-cheap fuel has *got* to
> change, because you are out of step with the rest of the world. And the
> rest of the world is not going to slash its taxes on fuel. You are going
> to have to raise yours.

Craziest thing you've ever said.

* en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tax#United_States_of_America

California (25 July 2007)

State gas excise tax 18.0 cents per gallon

Other state taxes (general sales tax, average county/local sales tax,
environmental fees, wholesale taxes) 26.4 cents per gallon (7.25% +
1.2)

State tax total 44.4 cents per gallon

State + federal tax total 62.8 cents per gallon

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

. <RhiannonX@gmail . com > wrote:

> Craziest thing you've ever said.

Why? Face up: the US must realise that the era of cheap energy is over,
and that if you want to conserve supplies and reduce CO2 emissions, the
best way (for vehicles) is to tax heavy use.

That promotes (a) the building of more efficient vehicles and (b) less
vehicle use anyway.
>
<snip>
>
> State + federal tax total 62.8 cents per gallon

About 33 UK pence. Peanuts.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

On Feb 11, 11:21=EF=BF=BDpm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

> Why? Face up: the US must realise that the era of cheap energy is over,
> and that if you want to conserve supplies and reduce CO2 emissions, the
> best way (for vehicles) is to tax heavy use.
>
> That promotes (a) the building of more efficient vehicles and (b) less
> vehicle use anyway.

So. Apparently your position is that the wasteful use of energy is a
sin, so we should all tax this sin so heavily that the majority of
drivers cannot afford to fuel their vehicles.

But *you* should be able to continue to drive *your* vehicle, because
you're somehow
"worthy" of such a priviliege.

Isn't that about it, in a nutshell?

> > State + federal tax total 62.8 cents per gallon
>
> About 33 UK pence. Peanuts.

As an American, I regard most taxes as abusive. Americans fought a
revolutionary war over taxes, as I recall...

But, you seem to believe that Americans should happily pay 10 times as
much taxes on fuel as they are paying now, because the tax is fixed on
the quantity of purchased, not upon the speculative value of crude oil
futures and market supply and demand.

We're not supposed to notice that the price of crude has gone up,
because it's so much less than the arbitrary tax on a liter of fuel.

And where does that tax money come from, and where does it go, anyway?

If fewer people can afford to drive, you don't need to built new
highways or bridges.

And, as less people can afford to buy cars or drive, and they start
using public transportation or riding bicycles, what happens to the
agencies that depend upon this
huge fuel tax, who do they suck their blood money out of next?

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

On 12 Feb, 11:00, "." <Rhiann...@gmail . com > wrote:
> On Feb 11, 11:21=EF=BF=BDpm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>
> Gentleman) wrote:
> > Why? Face up: the US must realise that the era of cheap energy is over,
> > and that if you want to conserve supplies and reduce CO2 emissions, the
> > best way (for vehicles) is to tax heavy use.
>
> > That promotes (a) the building of more efficient vehicles and (b) less
> > vehicle use anyway.
>
> So. Apparently your position is that the wasteful use of energy is a
> sin, so we should all tax this sin so heavily that the majority of
> drivers cannot afford to fuel their vehicles.
>
You're not really that bright, are you? It can be argued that all
waste is sinful, but I won't. I'll just say that the rest of the world
(except you) seems to agree that we must cut emissions and the
squandering of non-renewable energy sources. As for "the majority of
drivers cannot afford to fuel their vehicles" - this is nonsense, even
for you.

You see, if you buy more economical vehicles, guess what happens?
Yes!! You buy less fuel. The price of fuel doubles, but you now drive
a car that does 40mpg instead of 20mpg and... Well, you do the maths.
How much more are you paying?


> But *you* should be able to continue to drive *your* vehicle, because
> you're somehow
> "worthy" of such a priviliege.
>
> Isn't that about it, in a nutshell?

No. I am doing what I can to reduce my vehicle use. I sold a fuel-
guzzling Saab and bought an economical diesel car. I use a small 125
for running around London instead of a bigger bike. I don't actually
object to fuel taxation.
>
> > > State + federal tax total 62.8 cents per gallon
>
> > About 33 UK pence. Peanuts.
>
> As an American, I regard most taxes as abusive. Americans fought a
> revolutionary war over taxes, as I recall...

Oh, do grow up.

>
> But, you seem to believe that Americans should happily pay 10 times as
> much taxes on fuel as they are paying now, because the tax is fixed on
> the quantity of purchased, not upon the speculative value of crude oil
> futures and market supply and demand.
>
Read what I said above about emissions and non-renewable energy.
*This* is the issue, you idiot.

>>
> And where does that tax money come from, and where does it go, anyway?
>
> If fewer people can afford to drive, you don't need to built new
> highways or bridges.
>
> And, as less people can afford to buy cars or drive, and they start
> using public transportation or riding bicycles, what happens to the
> agencies that depend upon this
> huge fuel tax, who do they suck their blood money out of next?

They always find somebody. Don't worry.

I frequently wonder how you manage to come up with these leaps of non-
logic that you maintain are self-evident truths.

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

On Feb 12, 8:15=EF=BF=BDam, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk> wrot=
e:

> You're not really that bright, are you? It can be argued that all
> waste is sinful, but I won't. I'll just say that the rest of the world
> (except you) seems to agree that we must cut emissions and the
> squandering of non-renewable energy sources.

Cite where I ever said that we shouldn't reduce emissions.

> As for "the majority of
> drivers cannot afford to fuel their vehicles" - this is nonsense, even
> for you.

I wouldn't be buying very much gasoline if my dear Uncle Sam wasn't
filling up my bank account every month. As it is, I'm spending an
appalling amount of money to amuse myself by driving my Jeep around
the Sierras, and the federal + state taxes on that fuel amounts to
about 20% per gallon.

And you're saying that paying 80% tax on every gallon of fuel is
somehow a "good thing" because it discourages unnecessary driving.

If gasoline taxes jumped that high over here, I'd be riding a bicycle
and most people would be trying to sell their cars. But there wouldn't
be any buyers.
>
> No. I am doing what I can to reduce my vehicle use. I sold a fuel-
> guzzling Saab and bought an economical diesel car. I use a small 125
> for running around London instead of a bigger bike.

Besides, you don't have to pay the fee to enter Central London if you
ride the motorbike. What is it, =EF=BF=BD5 a day?

> I don't actually object to fuel taxation.

What would it matter if you did? Would you demonstrate outside of
Parliament?
Would your government suddenly drop the taxes because you didn't like
it?

> I frequently wonder how you manage to come up with these leaps of non-
> logic that you maintain are self-evident truths.

If you ever see me use the phrase, "we hold these truths to be self-
evident", I'm talking about Thomas Jefferson and his use of
misunderstood language that follows.

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US

. <RhiannonX@gmail . com > wrote:

> > You're not really that bright, are you? It can be argued that all
> > waste is sinful, but I won't. I'll just say that the rest of the world
> > (except you) seems to agree that we must cut emissions and the
> > squandering of non-renewable energy sources.
>
> Cite where I ever said that we shouldn't reduce emissions.

You're really not that bright, are you?


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Euro diesel reaches the US


"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> wrote

> You're really not that bright, are you?
>

"we hold these truths to be self-evident",