In-situ battery charging

In-situ battery charging

I've been using a Ctek charger on some of my older scoots (250's and a
400), without disconnecting the battery cables. A friend with a newish
BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
battery before giving a maintenance charge. Brief searching hasn't yet
given me a clue why this might be so. Can anybody here comment?

Re: In-situ battery charging

paul c <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote:

> I've been using a Ctek charger on some of my older scoots (250's and a
> 400), without disconnecting the battery cables. A friend with a newish
> BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
> risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
> battery before giving a maintenance charge. Brief searching hasn't yet
> given me a clue why this might be so. Can anybody here comment?

He's a fuckwit.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: In-situ battery charging

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:45:06 GMT, paul c <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote:

>I've been using a Ctek charger on some of my older scoots (250's and a
>400), without disconnecting the battery cables. A friend with a newish
>BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
>risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
>battery before giving a maintenance charge. Brief searching hasn't yet
>given me a clue why this might be so. Can anybody here comment?

If any such thing were true, it would be prominently featured
in the owners manual, seeing as this would make that bike unique among
motor vehicles, and this would be a very important thing for the
company to make sure people knew, to avoid lawsuits.

So, get him to show it to you in the manual, or in an official
anything from a BMW dealer.


--
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Re: In-situ battery charging


"paul c" <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote

> 400), without disconnecting the battery cables. A friend with a newish
> BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
> risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
> battery before giving a maintenance charge.

Considering that the surge from disconnecting/reconnecting the battery is
likely MUCH more of a risk than using a low capacity charger while
everything is still connected...........I second the fuckwit motion. ;-)

Re: In-situ battery charging

Just Me <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote:

> "paul c" <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote
>
> > 400), without disconnecting the battery cables. A friend with a newish
> > BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
> > risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
> > battery before giving a maintenance charge.
>
> Considering that the surge from disconnecting/reconnecting the battery is
> likely MUCH more of a risk than using a low capacity charger while
> everything is still connected...........I second the fuckwit motion. ;-)

<High-fives Just Me>


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: In-situ battery charging

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:45:06 GMT, paul c <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote:

>A friend with a newish
>BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
>risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
>battery before giving a maintenance charge.

If the charging components of the BMW are anything like any of the other
mysterious boxes on those bikes, a new component costs roughly ten times the
purchase price of the bike so he's just being cautious.

You don't have to do it, but he probably doesn't have a choice. Live and let
live.

--
Jack

Re: In-situ battery charging

Jack Hunt <jhunt1x@tds . net > wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:45:06 GMT, paul c <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote:
>
> >A friend with a newish
> >BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
> >risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
> >battery before giving a maintenance charge.
>
> If the charging components of the BMW are anything like any of the other
> mysterious boxes on those bikes, a new component costs roughly ten times the
> purchase price of the bike so he's just being cautious.
>
> You don't have to do it, but he probably doesn't have a choice. Live and let
> live.
>
What does he think happens to all those expensive components when the
battery is being charged via the alternator?


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: In-situ battery charging

Jack Hunt wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:45:06 GMT, paul c <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote:
>
>> A friend with a newish
>> BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
>> risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
>> battery before giving a maintenance charge.
>
> If the charging components of the BMW are anything like any of the other
> mysterious boxes on those bikes, a new component costs roughly ten times the
> purchase price of the bike so he's just being cautious.
>
> You don't have to do it, but he probably doesn't have a choice. Live and let
> live.

Sure he has a choice. The sane and safe choice is to leave the
battery connected. A motorcycle battery can sink a large amount
of current, which makes it an ideal voltage transient suppressor.

It really is more likely that he's going to damage something in
the bike's electronics while the battery is disconnected through
an ESD event, than from a voltage spike from the battery charger.

--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7

Re: In-situ battery charging

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:11:36 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

>Sure he has a choice. The sane and safe choice is to leave the
>battery connected. A motorcycle battery can sink a large amount
>of current, which makes it an ideal voltage transient suppressor.

I agree completely. I don't even disconnect batteries when weld. Never had any
trouble. Granted I don't do much welding on bikes, but I have a few times. I
think a connected battery is the greatest protection you can have for an
electrical system if there's a chance of ESD.

>It really is more likely that he's going to damage something in
>the bike's electronics while the battery is disconnected through
>an ESD event, than from a voltage spike from the battery charger.

If the electronics are so fragile that ESD from a battery
connection/disconnection or some stray current when there's not even a battery
present can damage the system, maybe the electronics are *too* fragile. Just a
thought.

--
Jack

Re: In-situ battery charging

On Mar 3, 6:43 pm, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds . net > wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:11:36 -0600, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote=
:
> >Sure he has a choice.  The sane and safe choice is to leave the
> >battery connected.  A motorcycle battery can sink a large amount
> >of current, which makes it an ideal voltage transient suppressor.
>
> I agree completely.  I don't even disconnect batteries when weld.  Nev=
er had any
> trouble.  Granted I don't do much welding on bikes, but I have a few tim=
es.  I
> think a connected battery is the greatest protection you can have for an
> electrical system if there's a chance of ESD.
>
> >It really is more likely that he's going to damage something in
> >the bike's electronics while the battery is disconnected through
> >an ESD event, than from a voltage spike from the battery charger.
>
> If the electronics are so fragile that ESD from a battery
> connection/disconnection or some stray current when there's not even a bat=
tery
> present can damage the system, maybe the electronics are *too* fragile. =
 Just a
> thought.

Actually, the BMW electronics are on a separate power
bus with it's own protective watchdog which will shut
things down if it senses electrical funny business.

The accessory plug and the electronics are about as
isolated from each other as possible.

Re: In-situ battery charging

Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:

> Actually, the BMW electronics are on a separate power
> bus with it's own protective watchdog which will shut
> things down if it senses electrical funny business.
>
> The accessory plug and the electronics are about as
> isolated from each other as possible.

This is true enough but might give a misleading impression
to someone who doesn't understand what the CANbus is, and
how every electronic device on the bike is tied into it.

The accessory outlet on late model BMW bikes is not directly
connected to the battery through a fuse as you might imagine,
it is switched and monitored by the CANbus controller like
every other electrical device on the system.

Read this product description here:

* w w w .ascycles . com /detail.aspx?ID=43421

--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7

Re: In-situ battery charging


"Jack Hunt" <jhunt1x@tds . net > wrote

>so he's just being cautious.

No, he's just being stupid.........because the actions he is taking are
likely to CAUSE the very thing he thinks he is trying to prevent.

>
> You don't have to do it, but he probably doesn't have a choice.

Huh?? More than one fuckwit in the house, apparently.

Re: In-situ battery charging

On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 18:13:15 -0600, "Just Me" <hitchhiker@dont.panic> wrote:

> More than one fuckwit in the house, apparently.

Yes, but we're willing to overlook you.

--
Jack

Re: In-situ battery charging


"paul c" <toledobysea@ac.ooyah> wrote in message
news:6Yzyj.35939$w94.25534@pd7urf2no...
> I've been using a Ctek charger on some of my older scoots (250's and a
> 400), without disconnecting the battery cables. A friend with a newish
> BMW 1200 (beautiful bike) told me you can't do that on his bike without
> risking damage to several of the electronics, so he disconnects the
> battery before giving a maintenance charge. Brief searching hasn't yet
> given me a clue why this might be so. Can anybody here comment?
Did you ask your friend why he thought BMW includes an adaptor for the
accessory port with their battery tender if they intended to have you
disconnect the battery before using it?

Re: In-situ battery charging

LJ wrote:
...
> Did you ask your friend why he thought BMW includes an adaptor for the
> accessory port with their battery tender if they intended to have you
> disconnect the battery before using it?


Sorry, no I didn't, plus I've forgotten a link that mentioned a
BMW-brand charger with adapter that I guessed was meant for an accessory
outlet somewhere on the bike. There was also a comment something to the
effect of turning on the ignition and counting to fifteen and mention of
the BMW charger being the only one could use with glass-mat batteries,
none of which I understood to be what my friend seemed to be going on
about. It does make sense, as several posters here mentioned, that the
battery provides a pretty good sink, especially for a 1.5 or 2 amp
charger. He's away now but when I see him I'm going to look at his
manual and see what it says.


(This came up because I gave him one of my CTEK chargers but couldn't
find the permanent adapter, told him I'd make one for him. But I guess
I could just as well make one that goes into his "accessory port"
instead of to the battery.)