Add group to favorites
Back to post list
Send new message to group Search:
Post Subject:
Measuring Radiator Flow
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
On Jan 23, 2:07 pm, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds,net > wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:10:15 -0800 (PST), Manjo <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote:
> >When I get the heads and cylinders off, I'm borrowing a bore gauge to
> >check the cylinders for out-of-round that may be allowing oil to seep
> >around the rings at high speed and burn-off on the piston crowns
> >leaving the carbon build-up.
>
> That would be easily checked with a compression or leak down test. Burning oil
> is always accompanied with oil loss. If you're not losing oil, you're not
> burning it. Spark plugs will also tell you if you're burning oil or not.
Jack: I am loosing oil at the rate of about a quart every 800 miles.
The compression test bumps up fine. A leak down showed less than 2%
loss compression loss. It may be a valve guide problem that I intend
to check shortly.
>
> >I'm also going to ask the machine shop
> >guys to check the heads/ valves just in case oil is leaking around the
> >valve guides (I installed new valve seals last spring).
>
> Does it smoke?
Jack: No smoking, but when I'm leading my wife says she does smell
oil burning from time to time.
>
> What kind of intake and exhaust modifications have you done? It sounds like
> you're idling rich.
>
JACK: Extensive changes to both. I've taken out the EPS duct work
and surge tank and have K&N filters mounted directly on each carb
intake port. The exhaust system is a Jardine set that's nearly
straight pipes. I've rejetted with larger main and idle jets to
enrichen the air-fuel mixture to match the higher air volume.
Manjo
On Jan 23, 2:07 pm, Jack Hunt <jhun...@tds,net > wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 09:10:15 -0800 (PST), Manjo <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote:
> >When I get the heads and cylinders off, I'm borrowing a bore gauge to
> >check the cylinders for out-of-round that may be allowing oil to seep
> >around the rings at high speed and burn-off on the piston crowns
> >leaving the carbon build-up.
>
> That would be easily checked with a compression or leak down test. Burning oil
> is always accompanied with oil loss. If you're not losing oil, you're not
> burning it. Spark plugs will also tell you if you're burning oil or not.
Jack: I am loosing oil at the rate of about a quart every 800 miles.
The compression test bumps up fine. A leak down showed less than 2%
loss compression loss. It may be a valve guide problem that I intend
to check shortly.
>
> >I'm also going to ask the machine shop
> >guys to check the heads/ valves just in case oil is leaking around the
> >valve guides (I installed new valve seals last spring).
>
> Does it smoke?
Jack: No smoking, but when I'm leading my wife says she does smell
oil burning from time to time.
>
> What kind of intake and exhaust modifications have you done? It sounds like
> you're idling rich.
>
JACK: Extensive changes to both. I've taken out the EPS duct work
and surge tank and have K&N filters mounted directly on each carb
intake port. The exhaust system is a Jardine set that's nearly
straight pipes. I've rejetted with larger main and idle jets to
enrichen the air-fuel mixture to match the higher air volume.
Manjo
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
"Manjo" <manjo1111@gmail,com > wrote
>JACK: Extensive changes to both. I've taken out the EPS duct work
>and surge tank and have K&N filters mounted directly on each carb
>intake port. The exhaust system is a Jardine set that's nearly
>straight pipes. I've rejetted with larger main and idle jets to
>enrichen the air-fuel mixture to match the higher air volume.
Grrrrr.....,it never occurred to you to mention ALL THAT when you first
posted the symptoms of your problem?? Crap.
"Manjo" <manjo1111@gmail,com > wrote
>JACK: Extensive changes to both. I've taken out the EPS duct work
>and surge tank and have K&N filters mounted directly on each carb
>intake port. The exhaust system is a Jardine set that's nearly
>straight pipes. I've rejetted with larger main and idle jets to
>enrichen the air-fuel mixture to match the higher air volume.
Grrrrr.....,it never occurred to you to mention ALL THAT when you first
posted the symptoms of your problem?? Crap.
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
On Feb 9, 11:16 am, "Ken Abrams" <harvest t...@scum.suckers> wrote:
> "Manjo" <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote
>
> >JACK: Extensive changes to both. I've taken out the EPS duct work
> >and surge tank and have K&N filters mounted directly on each carb
> >intake port. The exhaust system is a Jardine set that's nearly
> >straight pipes. I've rejetted with larger main and idle jets to
> >enrichen the air-fuel mixture to match the higher air volume.
>
> Grrrrr.....,it never occurred to you to mention ALL THAT when you first
> posted the symptoms of your problem?? Crap.
Sorry about the crap. This thread started out as a radiator flow
measurement question and evolved into a list of very helpful
suggestions and identification of other possibly contributing
elements. I've tried to provide as many details as possible at any
one time without distracting the reader.
I have everyone's suggestions gathered into one document that I will
use as a guide as I work through the bike.
Thanks.
Manjo
On Feb 9, 11:16 am, "Ken Abrams" <harvest t...@scum.suckers> wrote:
> "Manjo" <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote
>
> >JACK: Extensive changes to both. I've taken out the EPS duct work
> >and surge tank and have K&N filters mounted directly on each carb
> >intake port. The exhaust system is a Jardine set that's nearly
> >straight pipes. I've rejetted with larger main and idle jets to
> >enrichen the air-fuel mixture to match the higher air volume.
>
> Grrrrr.....,it never occurred to you to mention ALL THAT when you first
> posted the symptoms of your problem?? Crap.
Sorry about the crap. This thread started out as a radiator flow
measurement question and evolved into a list of very helpful
suggestions and identification of other possibly contributing
elements. I've tried to provide as many details as possible at any
one time without distracting the reader.
I have everyone's suggestions gathered into one document that I will
use as a guide as I work through the bike.
Thanks.
Manjo
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 05:43:10 -0800 (PST), Manjo <manjo1111@gmail,com > wrote:
>No smoking, but when I'm leading my wife says she does smell
>oil burning from time to time.
If your valve guides are worn, you'll lose oil when the engine is coasting
(holding back). Have someone follow you down a long hill. Get in a high enough
gear that the bike will keep a decent speed down the hill with the throttle
closed. If it starts to smoke then (and only then), you're on the right track
when checking valve guides. New seals may fix the problem for a little while
but the permanent fix is to replace the valves and guides along with new seals.
--
Jack
On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 05:43:10 -0800 (PST), Manjo <manjo1111@gmail,com > wrote:
>No smoking, but when I'm leading my wife says she does smell
>oil burning from time to time.
If your valve guides are worn, you'll lose oil when the engine is coasting
(holding back). Have someone follow you down a long hill. Get in a high enough
gear that the bike will keep a decent speed down the hill with the throttle
closed. If it starts to smoke then (and only then), you're on the right track
when checking valve guides. New seals may fix the problem for a little while
but the permanent fix is to replace the valves and guides along with new seals.
--
Jack
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
"Manjo" <manjo1111@gmail,com > wrote
> When I get the heads and cylinders off, ......
WHAT, AGAIN........?????
You do have a one track mind, don't you?
Here's my take: You are running RICH, causing the carbon buildup (how
paranoid does one have to be to actually MONITOR the carbon buildup in the
chamber ;-) ...).
As the engine heats up, it "likes" to be a little leaner. If you are way
rich, it will do exactly as you describe. Engines do not like to be rich
when hot.
I think you need to check your mixture......with an exhaust gas
analyzer....and then fix the carbs. or intake restriction or whatever it is
causing the rich mixture.
I cannot in my wildest imagination see how taking the heads off yet again
will help anything.
"Manjo" <manjo1111@gmail,com > wrote
> When I get the heads and cylinders off, ......
WHAT, AGAIN........?????
You do have a one track mind, don't you?
Here's my take: You are running RICH, causing the carbon buildup (how
paranoid does one have to be to actually MONITOR the carbon buildup in the
chamber ;-) ...).
As the engine heats up, it "likes" to be a little leaner. If you are way
rich, it will do exactly as you describe. Engines do not like to be rich
when hot.
I think you need to check your mixture......with an exhaust gas
analyzer....and then fix the carbs. or intake restriction or whatever it is
causing the rich mixture.
I cannot in my wildest imagination see how taking the heads off yet again
will help anything.
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
On Jan 23, 5:26 pm, "Ken Abrams" <harvest t...@scum.suckers> wrote:
> "Manjo" <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote
>
> > When I get the heads and cylinders off, ......
>
> WHAT, AGAIN........?????
>
> You do have a one track mind, don't you?
KEN: (sigh)
>
> Here's my take: You are running RICH, causing the carbon buildup (how
> paranoid does one have to be to actually MONITOR the carbon buildup in the
> chamber ;-) ...).
> As the engine heats up, it "likes" to be a little leaner. If you are way
> rich, it will do exactly as you describe. Engines do not like to be rich
> when hot.
>
> I think you need to check your mixture......with an exhaust gas
> analyzer....and then fix the carbs. or intake restriction or whatever it is
> causing the rich mixture.
KEN: I'll take a shot at that. Manjo
>
> I cannot in my wildest imagination see how taking the heads off yet again
> will help anything.
On Jan 23, 5:26 pm, "Ken Abrams" <harvest t...@scum.suckers> wrote:
> "Manjo" <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote
>
> > When I get the heads and cylinders off, ......
>
> WHAT, AGAIN........?????
>
> You do have a one track mind, don't you?
KEN: (sigh)
>
> Here's my take: You are running RICH, causing the carbon buildup (how
> paranoid does one have to be to actually MONITOR the carbon buildup in the
> chamber ;-) ...).
> As the engine heats up, it "likes" to be a little leaner. If you are way
> rich, it will do exactly as you describe. Engines do not like to be rich
> when hot.
>
> I think you need to check your mixture......with an exhaust gas
> analyzer....and then fix the carbs. or intake restriction or whatever it is
> causing the rich mixture.
KEN: I'll take a shot at that. Manjo
>
> I cannot in my wildest imagination see how taking the heads off yet again
> will help anything.
Re: Measuring Radiator Flow
On Jan 23, 9:10=EF=BF=BDam, Manjo <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote:
> I mislead on 800 rpm. =EF=BF=BDI have the idle set at 1,000 rpm and as the=
> outside temperature approaches 80 degrees F, the bike's idle speed
> decreases and the bike runs rough at stops and as the heat increases,
> the engine will stall. =EF=BF=BDI have never had a problem re-starting the=
> bike. =EF=BF=BD
Indications are that your idle mixture is incorrect.
Check your carbs to be sure that the throttle butterflies are covering
the idle mixture ports when the idle screw is initially set.
This will require a 'bench synch' with the carbs off the bike. When
you look at the butterflies from the engine side they should be
covering the transition holes.
Also, check your float height. The float height measurement should be
within plus or minus 1mm of specification. A smaller measurement means
that the fuel level is too high and the engine runs "soggy" at idle.
Float level measurements are taken from the bottom of the float (which
is on top when the carb is upside down on the bench) to the aluminum
gasket surface, not the gasket (or o-ring, in case of a Kawasaki).
Furthermore, check the brass needle jet (the tube that the main jet
screws into) to see it the needle has banged against it and made it
egg-shaped.
This can happen in as little as 5000 miles on semi-downdraft carbs
mounted on motorcycles that vibrate a lot.
Lastly, when the engine is warmed up, put your finger over each
enrichener inlet hole in the carburetor mouth to see if that makes the
RPM
change. The enrichener hole is the larger of two holes in the inlet
mouth.
If the enrichener plunger is leaking air, the engine will act like
it's on the choke all the time.
On Jan 23, 9:10=EF=BF=BDam, Manjo <manjo1...@gmail,com > wrote:
> I mislead on 800 rpm. =EF=BF=BDI have the idle set at 1,000 rpm and as the=
> outside temperature approaches 80 degrees F, the bike's idle speed
> decreases and the bike runs rough at stops and as the heat increases,
> the engine will stall. =EF=BF=BDI have never had a problem re-starting the=
> bike. =EF=BF=BD
Indications are that your idle mixture is incorrect.
Check your carbs to be sure that the throttle butterflies are covering
the idle mixture ports when the idle screw is initially set.
This will require a 'bench synch' with the carbs off the bike. When
you look at the butterflies from the engine side they should be
covering the transition holes.
Also, check your float height. The float height measurement should be
within plus or minus 1mm of specification. A smaller measurement means
that the fuel level is too high and the engine runs "soggy" at idle.
Float level measurements are taken from the bottom of the float (which
is on top when the carb is upside down on the bench) to the aluminum
gasket surface, not the gasket (or o-ring, in case of a Kawasaki).
Furthermore, check the brass needle jet (the tube that the main jet
screws into) to see it the needle has banged against it and made it
egg-shaped.
This can happen in as little as 5000 miles on semi-downdraft carbs
mounted on motorcycles that vibrate a lot.
Lastly, when the engine is warmed up, put your finger over each
enrichener inlet hole in the carburetor mouth to see if that makes the
RPM
change. The enrichener hole is the larger of two holes in the inlet
mouth.
If the enrichener plunger is leaking air, the engine will act like
it's on the choke all the time.
