Are they nuts?

Re: Are they nuts?

boxerboy wrote:
>
> Developing an allergy to Renault

I was pretty pissed off with the comprehensive unreliability of my V6
Espace. I replaced it with a Multipla, which has turned out to be the best
car I've ever owned.

Re: Are they nuts?

In article <JMfCj.22981$XI.17313@text.news.virginmedia,com >, platypus wrote:
> boxerboy wrote:
>>
>> Developing an allergy to Renault
>
> I was pretty pissed off with the comprehensive unreliability of my V6
> Espace. I replaced it with a Multipla, which has turned out to be the best
> car I've ever owned.

<Faints>

I assume it's not designed or built by FIAT then..

When we were looking to replace the Voyager we went to the Renault
garage. After 10 minutes of complete disinterest from the 'senior sales
manager' (other than in ogling Cheryls backside) we went to Honda and
spent the £18K budget there (and got a much better deal).

Phil.

--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'

Re: Are they nuts?

Phil Launchbury wrote:
> In article <JMfCj.22981$XI.17313@text.news.virginmedia,com >, platypus
> wrote:
>> boxerboy wrote:
>>>
>>> Developing an allergy to Renault
>>
>> I was pretty pissed off with the comprehensive unreliability of my V6
>> Espace. I replaced it with a Multipla, which has turned out to be
>> the best car I've ever owned.
>
> <Faints>
>
> I assume it's not designed or built by FIAT then..

You assume wrong:

http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipla

Also, it has the JTD common-rail diesel engine, which is this decade's
equivalent of the old PSA XUD IMNSHO:

http :// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTD

> When we were looking to replace the Voyager we went to the Renault
> garage. After 10 minutes of complete disinterest from the 'senior
> sales manager' (other than in ogling Cheryls backside) we went to
> Honda and
> spent the £18K budget there (and got a much better deal).

The motor trade is full of knobheads and tossers, of course. Sounds like
you encountered the local Swiss Toni.

Re: Are they nuts?

In article <CntCj.23266$XI.39@text.news.virginmedia,com >, platypus wrote:
> Phil Launchbury wrote:
>> In article <JMfCj.22981$XI.17313@text.news.virginmedia,com >, platypus
>> wrote:
>>> boxerboy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Developing an allergy to Renault
>>>
>>> I was pretty pissed off with the comprehensive unreliability of my V6
>>> Espace. I replaced it with a Multipla, which has turned out to be
>>> the best car I've ever owned.
>>
>> <Faints>
>>
>> I assume it's not designed or built by FIAT then..
>
> You assume wrong:

It was a joke..

(Fix It Again Tony).

Phil.


--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'

Re: Are they nuts?

boxerboy wrote:

> Therefore folks I need a list of new cars under £15k that have cam
> chains rather than belts.

Saab 900i

Way, way under budget too.

--
Simon

Re: Are they nuts?

The Roaming Boxhead wrote:
> "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 13 Mar, 12:29, "Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)"
>> <boobooililili...@roadrunner,com > wrote:
>>> I can't find an auto tech newsgroup. VW wants $800 to change a $36
>>> timing belt on the 1.9 Turbodiesel. Are they nuts? I guess i'll be doing
>>> that myself. Pushing 100k miles prolly should be changed. But a belt for
>>> timing? Why not a chain?
>
> Noise emissions, for starters. Chains do make noise, and with ever
> tightening noise emissions, a cambelt is an easy way to remove some
> mechanical noise. Not to mention that you can use them for other things
> as well like driving the waterpump etc.
>
>>> Seems like the weak link in this engine that
>>> would have no problem going 300k miles. Have to tear it apart for a
>>> stinking belt.
>
> You don't have to "tear it apart", you have to remove the cover over the
> belt and more or less stuff that's in the way of getting it out.

You don't have to tear it apart? Only remove the fender well and a motor
mount and the crank pulley to get the timing cover off, that's all. No
big deal.



>
> Oh, and while you're in there, I'd consider replacing the tensioner
> wheels and similar items.
>
>>> It IS an interference engine so when the belt breaks the
>>> pistons crush all the open valves.
>>
>> Most cars seem to use belts rather than chains. Quieter and cheaper.
>> Some are easier to change than others - on some Fiats and Alfa Romeos,
>> I think you have to remove the engine to change the belt, which is
>> daft.
>
> On some the workshop manual suggests that because of space issues. Most
> engine bays these days are so cramped that you've got to do weird and
> wonderful things just to access basic components (on some transverse
> sixes, you have to remove parts of the manifold to get at the read spark
> plugs). This is often because engine bays seem to get smaller in
> relation to engine size, plus all the anciliaries that you need these
> days for 'creature comforts'.
>
>> My Nissan uses a chain. So did my Saab. I don't know which other makes
>> do.
>
> Some BMWs (but not all), a lot of Mercedes engines, most of the US V8
> engines...
>
>> A mate has just had an incorrectly fitted (12,000 miles ago) belt snap
>> on his Renault Megane Scenic. He is Not Happy. I don't think there's a
>> problem with belts, generally, as long as they're changed religiously.
>
> That sounds more a problem with Thick Fit type mechanics than belts -
> problems with belts are usually because someone forgot to change it or
> fucked up the change.
>
> And it's not exactly unknown for chains to wear and/or snap either.
>
>> As for bikes, quite a few use belt drive for the cams.
>>
>> X-posted to ukrm, where there are several car nuts.
>
> *waves*


--
Blattus Slafaly ? 3 :) 7/8

Re: Are they nuts?

"Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)" <boobooililililil@roadrunner,com > writes:

> The Roaming Boxhead wrote:
>> "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 13 Mar, 12:29, "Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)"
>>> <boobooililili...@roadrunner,com > wrote:
>>>> I can't find an auto tech newsgroup. VW wants $800 to change a $36
>>>> timing belt on the 1.9 Turbodiesel. Are they nuts? I guess i'll be doing
>>>> that myself. Pushing 100k miles prolly should be changed. But a belt for
>>>> timing? Why not a chain?
>>
>> Noise emissions, for starters. Chains do make noise, and with ever
>> tightening noise emissions, a cambelt is an easy way to remove some
>> mechanical noise. Not to mention that you can use them for other things
>> as well like driving the waterpump etc.
>>
>>>> Seems like the weak link in this engine that
>>>> would have no problem going 300k miles. Have to tear it apart for a
>>>> stinking belt.
>>
>> You don't have to "tear it apart", you have to remove the cover over the
>> belt and more or less stuff that's in the way of getting it out.
>
> You don't have to tear it apart? Only remove the fender well and a
> motor mount and the crank pulley to get the timing cover off, that's
> all. No big deal.

Oh FFS, this is perfectly normal for a cambelt change. If you want
something with the mechanical simplicity of a 1904 Benz, go buy a 1904
Benz.

I assume that if it was a modern petrol engine you'd be complaining that
you had to remove a cover to get at the spark plugs.

--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http :// www .ukrm,net /faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar

Re: Are they nuts?

Timo Geusch wrote:
> "Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)" <boobooililililil@roadrunner,com > writes:
>
>> The Roaming Boxhead wrote:
>>> "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 13 Mar, 12:29, "Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)"
>>>> <boobooililili...@roadrunner,com > wrote:
>>>>> I can't find an auto tech newsgroup. VW wants $800 to change a $36
>>>>> timing belt on the 1.9 Turbodiesel. Are they nuts? I guess i'll be doing
>>>>> that myself. Pushing 100k miles prolly should be changed. But a belt for
>>>>> timing? Why not a chain?
>>> Noise emissions, for starters. Chains do make noise, and with ever
>>> tightening noise emissions, a cambelt is an easy way to remove some
>>> mechanical noise. Not to mention that you can use them for other things
>>> as well like driving the waterpump etc.
>>>
>>>>> Seems like the weak link in this engine that
>>>>> would have no problem going 300k miles. Have to tear it apart for a
>>>>> stinking belt.
>>> You don't have to "tear it apart", you have to remove the cover over the
>>> belt and more or less stuff that's in the way of getting it out.
>> You don't have to tear it apart? Only remove the fender well and a
>> motor mount and the crank pulley to get the timing cover off, that's
>> all. No big deal.
>
> Oh FFS, this is perfectly normal for a cambelt change. If you want
> something with the mechanical simplicity of a 1904 Benz, go buy a 1904
> Benz.
>
> I assume that if it was a modern petrol engine you'd be complaining that
> you had to remove a cover to get at the spark plugs.
>
So why does the dealer charge 800 dollars to change a 36 dollar belt?


--
Blattus Slafaly ? ? :) ?

Re: Are they nuts?

Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ ? :) wrote:

> So why does the dealer charge 800 dollars to change a 36 dollar belt?

You really don't know?

--
'01 SV650SK1 '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7

Re: Are they nuts?

Mark Olson wrote:
> Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ ? :) wrote:
>
>> So why does the dealer charge 800 dollars to change a 36 dollar belt?
>
> You really don't know?
>

I do. It's because most people can take a fucking and don't even know it.

--
Blattus Slafaly ? ? :) ?

Re: Are they nuts?


""Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ ? :)"" <boobooililililil@roadrunner,com > wrote

> So why does the dealer charge 800 dollars to change a 36 dollar belt?
>

Because they CAN.
Please TRIM your quotes.

Re: Are they nuts?

"Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ ? :)" <boobooililililil@roadrunner,com > wrote:

> So why does the dealer charge 800 dollars to change a 36 dollar belt?

God.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

Re: Are they nuts?

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, The Older
Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk> typed
>"Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ ? :)" <boobooililililil@roadrunner,com > wrote:
>
>> So why does the dealer charge 800 dollars to change a 36 dollar belt?
>
>God.

God told him to do it?

What a cunt.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"

My position was (and, to be honest, largely remains) one of complete ambiguity.

Re: Are they nuts?

Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :) wrote:
> I can't find an auto tech newsgroup. VW wants $800 to change a $36
> timing belt on the 1.9 Turbodiesel. Are they nuts? I guess i'll be doing
> that myself. Pushing 100k miles prolly should be changed. But a belt for
> timing? Why not a chain? Seems like the weak link in this engine that
> would have no problem going 300k miles. Have to tear it apart for a
> stinking belt. It IS an interference engine so when the belt breaks the
> pistons crush all the open valves.

The problem seems to be; a good student can master any professional
training at any school but they may not be specifically suited for the
career they chose. You may end up with a PhD in mechanical design who
doesn't know how to change their own oil.

There is also a convergence of methods and techniques that are working
against you. For example most front wheel drive cars have their
engine/drive train assembled separately from the chassis. When they are
mated the factory drops the body over the engine/drive train. As far as
they are concerned, they don't even need to use a hood other then for
checking the oil and water levels.

I have a Honda Civic, same type of problems with timing belts and engine
access with similar prices. I've heard the timing belts on a Ferrari run
just under $3,000 to replace. I've seen pictures of people who pull
their Hondas under beams in barns to hoist the body off the engine/drive
train to work on them.

Some of the stuff Honda does is asinine. IIRC they have a single piece
cover over the timing belt and water pump that requires you pull the
crank shaft pulley to remove. It was a simple modification to cut it in
half. Why some engineer didn't think of it, well they probably saved a
nickel by doing it the way they did and they are incompetent.

Another example was related to me by my brother who worked in a Ford
assembly plant before becoming a Ford Mechanic before going into
vocational teaching. Ford had a MAP sensor made out of brass that cost a
couple of bucks, they redesigned it so it was made out of plastic. The
engine temps were hot enough to melt the now $1.25 sensor and send the
engine performance south. At the time mechanic time was being charged
~$75/hour at the dealerships. My brother thought it was funny that in
order to save $2 on a sensor they replaced it with one that melted and
charged $75/hour for him to replace it. The real irony is the customers
probably spend more on gas due to performance driving to the dealership
then the brass gauge cost.

So yes, they are nuts.

Rick

Re: Are they nuts?

Why not ask your shop teacher?
(hire a teenager, while they still know everything.!.........)




"Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)" <boobooililililil@roadrunner,com > wrote in
message news:47d91e13$0$17346$4c368faf@roadrunner,com ...
> I can't find an auto tech newsgroup. VW wants $800 to change a $36
> timing belt on the 1.9 Turbodiesel. Are they nuts? I guess i'll be doing
> that myself. Pushing 100k miles prolly should be changed. But a belt for
> timing? Why not a chain? Seems like the weak link in this engine that
> would have no problem going 300k miles. Have to tear it apart for a
> stinking belt. It IS an interference engine so when the belt breaks the
> pistons crush all the open valves.
> --
> Blattus Slafaly ? 3 :) 7/8